BenKen

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, billy2803 said:

That's incorrect.  My point (presuming that it was mine that you're referring to) was that we (i.e. MFC) couldn't lose out of the trade (in my view).  I didn't reference Collingwood until a later post.

But you were replying to a comment about Collingwood fans not being disappointed in losing Kennedy... (You even bolded that section)

 

[The Chazz 4,077]

2 minutes ago, stuie said:

But you were replying to a comment about Collingwood fans not being disappointed in losing Kennedy... (You even bolded that section)

 

I was saying that Melbourne supporters shouldn't be disappointed with what we lost in the deal, like OldDee said about Pies supporters losing Kennedy.  Not at all saying or implying that one team did better than the other, as this was not the context of my post.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Still think he'll be okay....strong, gutsy.

 

[Moonshadow 17,676]

2 hours ago, stuie said:

Too short and not enough footy brains to be a mid.

Too slow to be an outside/wing type.

Not enough tricks to be a crumbing forward.

Vanilla footballer, won't be around in 2018.

 

Wow, pretty definitive statement there Stu.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I do believe in the benifits of a big preseason and being super fit going into round one. BK is good depth, will push hard for senior selection and provides a match up that some teams will struggle with. IMO our depth is still not what it needs to be, and BK with a tank offers a fair bit of versatility to the mix. If he ends up getting regular games, it won't say much for the likes of Kent, Jeffy, Vanders, etc whose spots he is vying for. The players know competition is increasing, I reckon BK might show a few up.

You may well be correct, he might not be on our list next year, but I wouldn't put my house on it just yet.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Moonshadow

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,861]

Gee people around here underrate Howe (probably because he wears different colours)

Howe inevitably played 1 stinker a year and people seemed to remember those more than the majority of games when he was heavily involved as an effective 4th defender which is what he's doing at Collingwood.

His elite intercept marking would've made him a staple in our defence last year, this year and next year if he were still at the club.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Bring-Back-Powell

[beelzebub 23,380]

Howe wouldn't get a game with us.

Happy to have it that way

[Moonshadow 17,676]

I like Howe, but whose place in back 6 would he have taken for us in 2017?

He wanted to play forward, was found out and pushed into defence both by us and Bucks at the Pies. He'll get loads of games with Dunny as their defence is pizzweak this year. Wouldn't have with us. Good luck to him.

[Bay Riffin 1,478]

1 hour ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Gee people around here underrate Howe (probably because he wears different colours.

Howe inevitably played 1 stinker a year asnd people seemed remember those more than the majority of games when he was heavily involved as an effective 4th defender which is what he's doing at Collingwood.

His elite intercept marking would've made him a staple in our defence last year, this year and next year if he were still at the club.

Had a mate talking to Buckley recently and he (Buckley) predicted Howe will be All Australian this year. prefect third man up type intercept defensive puncher.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

14 minutes ago, Bay Riffin said:

Had a mate talking to Buckley recently and he (Buckley) predicted Howe will be All Australian this year. prefect third man up type intercept defensive puncher.

I believe that's what they call 'buckley's chance'

[beelzebub 23,380]

24 minutes ago, Bay Riffin said:

Had a mate talking to Buckley recently and he (Buckley) predicted Howe will be All Australian this year. prefect third man up type intercept defensive puncher.

No offence but we should peg this post and revisit at seasons end . Hilarious.

Buckley is delusional

[nutbean 8,838]

1 hour ago, Moonshadow said:

I like Howe, but whose place in back 6 would he have taken for us in 2017?

He wanted to play forward, was found out and pushed into defence both by us and Bucks at the Pies. He'll get loads of games with Dunny as their defence is pizzweak this year. Wouldn't have with us. Good luck to him.

Watched him a bit last year and he had a slow start to the year but played a ripper last 3/4's of the year. All that rubbish about him going to be Collingwoods "Gunston". He only started to play decent football when he went down back which i think he is infinitely better suited. 

Without wearing my red and blue glasses Howe has been more than valuable to his team than BenKen to us. Collingwood have got more out of him than in that later part of the season than we ever did. Wagner played 14 games for us last year and if Howe gave us the same form as he showed last year he would have been a better option in 14 games. (Howes kicking is still iffy imo)

Alas - Howe for us was a lazy one mark a game highlight reel player.  

[daisycutter 29,622]

47 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

No offence but we should peg this post and revisit at seasons end . Hilarious.

Buckley is delusional

no good at season's end, bub. bucks won't be around then - lol

[Ouch! 2,266]

57 minutes ago, nutbean said:

Wagner played 14 games for us last year and if Howe gave us the same form as he showed last year he would have been a better option in 14 games. (Howes kicking is still iffy imo)

Alas - Howe for us was a lazy one mark a game highlight reel player.  

Whilst I don't disagree with this, it is only through circumstance... Salem being out of the side, not having Melksham able to play that Wagner got a solid crack as a rookie. This is not to disparage what was a good first season for him. I think Grimes could have been as effective as Howe in the same position last year but Wagner managed to hold him  off for a good part of the season.

With that being said Wagner has better defensive pressure than Howe has ever had! 

I think Dunn will be more valuable to the pies this year than Howe. If Buckley thinks that Howe will be left to run free as a third man up, then I think they will get caught out pretty quickly.

[hemingway 7,628]

1 hour ago, nutbean said:

Watched him a bit last year and he had a slow start to the year but played a ripper last 3/4's of the year. All that rubbish about him going to be Collingwoods "Gunston". He only started to play decent football when he went down back which i think he is infinitely better suited. 

Without wearing my red and blue glasses Howe has been more than valuable to his team than BenKen to us. Collingwood have got more out of him than in that later part of the season than we ever did. Wagner played 14 games for us last year and if Howe gave us the same form as he showed last year he would have been a better option in 14 games. (Howes kicking is still iffy imo)

Alas - Howe for us was a lazy one mark a game highlight reel player.  

Not the only lazy player in a third rate Melbourne side. Excluding Jones, Viney and a couple of others. We had a lazy team. 

[nutbean 8,838]

27 minutes ago, Ouch! said:

I think Dunn will be more valuable to the pies this year than Howe. If Buckley thinks that Howe will be left to run free as a third man up, then I think they will get caught out pretty quickly.

That's a pretty big call.

I didn't like the efforts of Howe when he was with us but he played some really good football last year.

[nutbean 8,838]

26 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Not the only lazy player in a third rate Melbourne side. Excluding Jones, Viney and a couple of others. We had a lazy team. 

true  - but he has the chance to turn it around under Roos and he still picked and choose the contests and the effort level.

He stepped it up last year  - maybe it sunk in that he was going to have a short career if he kept going half pace.

[DeeSpencer 25,723]

5 hours ago, stuie said:

Yes it was a complicated trade, but the original point was about who did better out of us and Collingwood in the context of Kennedy v Howe. Following your logic, given you say we got pick 29 for Howe, and we used pick 29 for Hibberd, then surely Howe must be rated higher than Kennedy given how much we're talking up Hibberd?

 

Of course Howe is rated higher than Kennedy. I just don't think they should be compared, anyone who is doing so from either side of the deal and/or in positives or negatives is silly.

I remember when Howe nominated Collingwood Josh Mahoney was very specific about not wanting any discussions linking Howe and Kennedy together. In the end they went in the same deal with Toumpas going out and Port involved but I still think that was a matter of convenience. 

Howe v Hibberd is actually a far more interesting debate point. 

As in Toumpas v Kennedy.

[stuie 7,374]

6 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Of course Howe is rated higher than Kennedy. I just don't think they should be compared, anyone who is doing so from either side of the deal and/or in positives or negatives is silly.

I remember when Howe nominated Collingwood Josh Mahoney was very specific about not wanting any discussions linking Howe and Kennedy together. In the end they went in the same deal with Toumpas going out and Port involved but I still think that was a matter of convenience. 

Howe v Hibberd is actually a far more interesting debate point. 

As in Toumpas v Kennedy.

There was more to it than that as far as that trade goes, but I get where you're coming from.

We've probably gone off on a bit of a tangent with the whole thing anyways.

Long story short, I can't see Kennedy making it, but that's just me.

 

[boydie 655]

2 hours ago, Bay Riffin said:

Had a mate talking to Buckley recently and he (Buckley) predicted Howe will be All Australian this year. prefect third man up type intercept defensive puncher.

There's going to be plenty of balls going into their defence this year so he's going to have every opportunity to make that happen.

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

51 minutes ago, stuie said:

There was more to it than that as far as that trade goes, but I get where you're coming from.

We've probably gone off on a bit of a tangent with the whole thing anyways.

Long story short, I can't see Kennedy making it, but that's just me.

 

It all depends on your definition of 'making it' Stuie, he has already played 40 games, for this season it looks like they are primarily going to use him as a small forward so he will be competing with Garlett, JKH and Johnstone and probably Kent for a spot unless of course the FD go with a couple a game

He hasn't missed a beat pre season, and like everybody else assume he has to shine in the pre season comp and be fully fit and in form at Match Committee on the Thursday before the first game to at least come into consideration

Because I have watched a lot of training I am asked where do I see players fitting in, I don't, I see all 45 with a chance to play and provide competition for every spot in the 22 every week

Edited January 18, 2017 by Satyriconhome

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

I think Howe is very underrated here and I think Collingwood will be better than many think.  They have an excellent midfield and will get Elliott back.  Mayne will play Cloke's role and Moore is a very good young player.

Time will tell.  Howe will not be missed by us because we have Hibberd and I think Joel Smith is very similar.  Howe was far from lazy when he went back which seems to be the main knock here.

Kennedy has had plenty of chances and is fighting for a spot along with the group Saty has mentioned.  I think he's well back but if he plays he'll be playing well because he will have beaten some good players for spots. 

[old55 23,625]

Benken is very good depth - shows how far we've come.  He's hard at it and can give something at the top level.  I ' m very bullish about our prospects.

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

5 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Benken is very good depth - shows how far we've come.  He's hard at it and can give something at the top level.  I ' m very bullish about our prospects.

Agreed, but if he gets into the team he will have to perform coz he, along with the rest, will know there is somebody waiting to take the spot if they slip up

Plapp must be beside himself, apart from some of the talent Casey have signed, he will have hopefully at least 20 guys each week busting a gut to get into the AFL side

[DeeSpencer 25,723]

4 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I think Howe is very underrated here and I think Collingwood will be better than many think.  They have an excellent midfield and will get Elliott back.  Mayne will play Cloke's role and Moore is a very good young player.

Time will tell.  Howe will not be missed by us because we have Hibberd and I think Joel Smith is very similar.  Howe was far from lazy when he went back which seems to be the main knock here.

Kennedy has had plenty of chances and is fighting for a spot along with the group Saty has mentioned.  I think he's well back but if he plays he'll be playing well because he will have beaten some good players for spots. 

I still rate Howe as well. And Collingwood will win plenty of games but they need to overhaul their backline and need more than just Elliott back up forward. I don't think Howe was lazy either, but I do think he was mentally checked out of playing in a bad Melbourne team and that led to some poor efforts. 

It's a shame he didn't have an extra year with us because I think with Goodwin taking more control and influence last year he would've suited the style of play perfectly and done really well. Paul Roos just couldn't convince him he was a defender, which is a bit odd given Roos was one of the greatest CHB's of all time!

He seems to have embraced the defensive role at the Pies - probably because he had no choice but to do it given he just signed on there. Funny how things work out sometimes 

[monoccular 17,432]

This is getting very tortuous 

Bottom line is that I am happier that we may well get more benefit out of having BK on our list in the current situation that we would expect to be getting out of Howe at this stage of their respective careers.