Training - Thursday 5th January, 2017

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

5 minutes ago, Tough Kent said:

Hi Saty,

Can you confirm that Dom did a quad and not a knee?

When I asked him he pointed to quad in right leg and said quad, Deeoldfart was stood next to me, said 4 to 6 weeks

[dazzledavey36 55,001]

Did one couple of years ago pre season when i was up playing SANFL. We did a whole weekend and i swear i only got about 2.5 hour sleep.

It was the biggest waste of time of my life. Majority of my teammates all agreed that it had nothing to do with footy at all and did not benefit them come game day one bit. This was discussed on an end of season break up. One guy put a disk out of his back from these big barrels we had to pick up and carry up hill. Begged the SAS captain to stop due to the sharp pain that was jolting down his back only to cop an absolute spray. End result he missed 6 months of footy and potentially getting drafted... [censored] idiots. I don't give 2 shits if its supposed to to test your mental side but FFS we are playing footy not diving into the middle of Syria with a back pack full of artillery weapons.

 

Edited January 5, 2017 by dazzledavey36

[Cards13 9,117]

5 hours ago, Drunkn167 said:

The whole group just before the xmas break went on a Boot Camp style, high intensity, sleep depreviation camp with a few ex-special forces guys. The whole squad went. I don't know if I can give out specifics of what they did but I believe there will me a media release/video of the camp.

What I do wanna say is over the 3 days, they had less then 2 hours sleep, while doing more intense physical work then they ever have at any training session. Was some crazy stuff.

How'd our man find it and how is he still finding being a "professional" footy player (not being paid as such) D?

[Tough Kent 2,137]

2 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

When I asked him he pointed to quad in right leg and said quad, Deeoldfart was stood next to me, said 4 to 6 weeks

Cheers mate. I hope he gets on top of it. Quads can take a long time to heal properly.  I'm sure Misso will take an ultra cautious with him.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

8 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Did one couple of years ago pre season when i was up playing SANFL. We did a whole weekend and i swear i only got about 2.5 hour sleep.

It was the biggest waste of time of my life. Majority of my teammates all agreed that it had nothing to do with footy at all and did not benefit them come game day one bit. This was discussed on an end of season break up. One guy put a disk out of his back from these big barrels we had to pick up and carry up hill. Begged the SAS captain to stop due to the sharp pain that was jolting down his back only to cop an absolute spray. End result he missed 6 months of footy and potentially getting drafted... [censored] idiots. I don't give 2 shits if its supposed to to test your mental side but FFS we are playing footy not diving into the middle of Syria with a back pack full of artillery weapons.

 

I've heard very much the same thing from a few mates who have played VFL, GFL etc.  They felt all they gained were a few fresh injuries.  Didn't hurt the morale of the squad as such, but the benefits were very minimal.

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

11 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Did one couple of years ago pre season when i was up playing SANFL. We did a whole weekend and i swear i only got about 2.5 hour sleep.

It was the biggest waste of time of my life. Majority of my teammates all agreed that it had nothing to do with footy at all and did not benefit them come game day one bit. This was discussed on an end of season break up. One guy put a disk out of his back from these big barrels we had to pick up and carry up hill. Begged the SAS captain to stop due to the sharp pain that was jolting down his back only to cop an absolute spray. End result he missed 6 months of footy and potentially getting drafted... [censored] idiots. I don't give 2 shits if its supposed to to test your mental side but FFS we are playing footy not diving into the middle of Syria with a back pack full of artillery weapons.

 

Sport at an elite level has changed in the last 5 to 10 years

Everything has to be tried now to get an edge

Goody and Macca would want to see which players embraced the exercise, which players did just enough to get through and if any didn't embrace it

You are talking about 40 odd full time athletes who should be able to get through an exercise like this and want to be pushed to see where their limits are, I asked a few and the answers were not sugar coated    it was hard

[rjay 24,991]

25 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Sorry to disappoint you but I was asked to reconsider my decision to provide a less jaundiced view of proceedings

This type of training can make you stronger mentally, it is your brain telling your body you can't do something, so if you know you are capable of going that extra step you will

I am all for anything, legal of course, that may give the team an edge, coz every team is striving for the same thing

Goody and Macca have the physicality now that they have been striving for,  now the mental strength needs to be instiled, which we have in some like Lewis, Jones, Viney, but we need in all 40+

The perceived mental fragility in the players is something supporters have been banging on about, when something different is tried to try and alleviate that perception, some whinge about that

I have done my 15 years in army browns and greens and loved every minute of it, sleep deprivation included

Given that I brought it up, let me say that I have never whinged about the mental fragility of this group of players. I have always believed that the mental side of their game would strengthen with age.

I was not whinging about them doing this training either, just pointing out my belief that it has no real value. Injury becomes a real possibility doing things your body is not trained to do.

As you point out, you did 15 years. That's a hell of a lot more time than a couple of days...

[Drunkn167 5,093]

56 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

How'd our man find it and how is he still finding being a "professional" footy player (not being paid as such) D?

What do you mean not being paid as such? He still gets a decent wage for someone his age, and it's not that much less then the 1st year national draftees.

But he is absolutely loving it, seems to be settling into the training really well with the rest of the group. He said the camp was the hardest thing he has ever done (the things they had to do were insane, like most people would probably die from exhaustion insane) but otherwise it's all good. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by Drunkn167

[monoccular 17,432]

 

4 hours ago, angrydee said:

Chris Judd, in his autobiography, reckons these commando type camps are a complete waste of time; they only marginally help bonding, don't improve fitness and invariably lead to injuries.

An opinion. That is all. 

1 hour ago, Satyriconhome said:

 Is sleep deprivation as well?

So you obviously went with the mindset not to embrace what they were trying to achieve. 

Do you think the players went with the same mindset, I am sure Goodwin would be pleased to see that in players,

The ones I spoke to, note spoke to, said it was the hardest thing they have done but could see why they did it

If the result is one player, who has run himself into the ground on a wet day, finds it in himself to chase a loose ball and kick a goal that gets us four points then it will have been worth it

In speaking to both Goody and Macca, note speaking again, they not only want a team that is physically tough but also mentally, they obviously thought this exercise would benefit the players

Dom Tyson was not downbeat when I spoke to him, told me it was all cool, 4 to 6 weeks, approximately what Wagner has been doing since he did his at the end of November and he returns to full squad next week

 

 

I trust (now) our whole player / team management team to seek out legitimate ways to give our team even 'a slight edge' over others.  If this as Saty points out instills self belief into some who may have lacked it in the past, and gets that marginal little extra drive at vital moments, it can only improve the team.

Others as we see have different opinions on the value of all this 'commando training'. Maybe, to those who have done it but not have been training at or playing at 'elite level' footy, it helps less than for those who have done everything else to be at their very top physical condition.  

Time will (or may) tell. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by monoccular

[SaberFang 7,151]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I don't give 2 shits if its supposed to to test your mental side but FFS we are playing footy not diving into the middle of Syria with a back pack full of artillery weapons.

Not yet, anyway. You know Gil loves his rule changes!

[jnrmac 20,108]

5 hours ago, angrydee said:

Chris Judd, in his autobiography, reckons these commando type camps are a complete waste of time; they only marginally help bonding, don't improve fitness and invariably lead to injuries.

Judd never really 'bonded' with other players. He was always a bit of a lone wolf.

[stuie 7,374]

Just wondering what those who are complaining think about the Hawks doing Kokoda every year? Doesn't seem to have hurt them too much.

 

[McQueen 17,865]

2 minutes ago, stuie said:

Just wondering what those who are complaining think about the Hawks doing Kokoda every year? Doesn't seem to have hurt them too much.

 

The two things are entirely different.

[McQueen 17,865]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

You could always talk to them yourself and post what is discussed "McQueen"? Sure, Saty might rub you the wrong way, but he provides something 99% of posters here don't, information not just opinion.

Put him on ignore if you find him so grating, others like me will continue to read his posts.

 

You do know I live in Perth?

[stuie 7,374]

Just now, McQueen said:

The two things are entirely different.

Just like some of the examples posted here by others are entirely different to what the MFC are doing.

 

[stuie 7,374]

1 minute ago, McQueen said:

You do know I live in Perth?

So maybe you should appreciate someone who goes to training all the time and passes on info then....

 

[McQueen 17,865]

1 minute ago, stuie said:

So maybe you should appreciate someone who goes to training all the time and passes on info then....

 

The posters that report on training are great and always appreciated.

[rjay 24,991]

12 minutes ago, stuie said:

Just wondering what those who are complaining think about the Hawks doing Kokoda every year? Doesn't seem to have hurt them too much.

 

I'm not sure they still do it but my answer would be it also hasn't helped them.

They had a great list...

[stuie 7,374]

7 minutes ago, McQueen said:

The posters that report on training are great and always appreciated.

They are, and they're the most valuable posters on 'Land.

 

[RalphiusMaximus 6,077]

4 hours ago, rjay said:

Most of these things give a bump straight after but then it's back to normal so it doesn't surprise me about the players reaction.

I'm more interested in the player who continually tests his limits during a game.

Someone who who is a 2 way runner, who works to his absolute max.

These sort of camps I find to be a bit of snake oil...happy to be proven wrong but of course impossible to set a KPI to prove it either way.

We will just beg to differ on this...

Ben Cousins?

[Sir Why You Little 37,052]

4 minutes ago, rjay said:

I'm not sure they still do it but my answer would be it also hasn't helped them.

They had a great list...

I think Kokoda would be great for 1st year players (including first year after moving clubs) but christ you wouldn't want to do it yearly!!!

[rjay 24,991]

Just now, RalphiusMaximus said:

Ben Cousins?

Funny, his name ran through my head as I wrote....

...but no, there are a few around that work hard without assistance.

A couple of our own don't leave much on the track.

[stuie 7,374]

6 minutes ago, rjay said:

I'm not sure they still do it but my answer would be it also hasn't helped them.

They had a great list...

They still do it.

How do you know it hasn't helped them at all? They did it all through the years of premiership success, what facts do you have to show it hasn't helped them?

 

[Ethan Tremblay 30,878]

5 minutes ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

Ben Cousins?

I think the "two way running" pills helped him out. 

[Stinga2 194]

1 minute ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

I think the "two way running" pills helped him out. 

So did the thought of getting caught...