Training - Monday 21st November, 2016

[demon-4-life 467]

53 minutes ago, old dee said:

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck chances are ..............

...it's a donkey?

[nutbean 8,838]

25 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Some very heartless pieces of advice for Lamumba on this thread.  He's a contracted player, he has suffered a workplace injury, his risks serious damage if not handled correctly - and people are trying to push him out the door.  If someone is sick, injured, unwell - a strong culture supports this person, we don't cut them loose.

whole lot of jumping to conclusions without the slightest shred of evidence - until we know for sure otherwise  he deserves some support and respect. (sorry OD - just because MC may have done the wrong thing by the club, I am proud that the club did the right thing by him) I'm with you on this one TPF39.

[beelzebub 23,364]

From Lewis an instant hit with Hogan ( MFC site )

"STAR Melbourne recruit Jordan Lewis has hit the training track for the first time with his new teammates as the Demons' senior players returned for pre-season training on Monday.

In hot and windy conditions at Gosch's Paddock, the four-time premiership Hawk took training in his stride, completing a tough running component involving repeat 400m efforts over five minutes that left the players gasping for air."

This is where some of the players are going to start to get the idea of where they ought to be.  Lewis is an old timer remember..

Looking forward to all those passes to Hogan that's for sure...bet he is too

[Dante 2,739]

I think the fact that H wasn't at training today makes it legitimate that there is discussion about him on this thread, but I seem to have missed any training reports in the meantime, did anyone actually go today?

It would be interesting to see if there was a lot done and if any of the players just back performed well?

Usually we get a double dose at this time of the year with the Draft and Training, but with the draft being irrelevant for us this year, we only have training to get our fix.

 

[Redleg 40,905]

2 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Stayed for around an hour and a half, they came out later than 11 and it was fairly warm so I left not long after they began a full-ground drill.

I'll leave the moment-by-moment commentary to those who are good at it, I'd rather describe the things that stood out to me during the time I was there as well as answer any questions to those who have them.

Rehab group from what I saw: Trengove, AVB, Stretch, King, Viney, T-Mac, JKH, Oliver, Kent and Hibberd. (May have missed a couple). T-Mac, JKH and Kent all did the running component with those who were due back today. (The ones who started a few weeks back were exempt from the running component from what I understand).

Everyone else was there except Lumumba as has been previously discussed.

Early observations: 

Attending training sessions is a rarity for me, but the one thing that continually surprises me when I do attend them is the sheer size of AFL players in general. As an MCC member who sits second level most weeks, it's hard to get a gauge on the size of AFL bodies compared to 'average-sized' humans like myself. Stretch for example walked passed me on the boundary-line and I couldn't really believe the size of him. I'm 180 cm which is his height but he was much thicker than I thought. No doubt this isn't news to regular attendees. 

The rehab guys did their own running component, Stretch and Trengove did a few timed laps and another thing that stood out was again the difference in body shape/mechanics of those two. Stretch's lower half, especially his glutes/quads and hammies are much more developed than Trengoves and he also clearly carries less weight on his torso. Trengove on the other hand has a bulky upper body with a slightly hunched back but his lower half is much less developed, especially his glutes and calves which seem disproportionate to his upper half. Again, probably obvious to some but one can clearly see that with a body like his, it makes sense that he is so one-paced. Out of the rehab group, I'd be interested to know why Trengove, Oliver and Stretch were part of it. (If anyone knows the answer.)

Running observations: 

The running component for the guys who were due back today lasted about 5-6 minutes at what seemed like a 'as hard as you can go' intensity for the entirety of it. No surprises Tom McDonald blitzed the field and if AFL wasn't his caper, he'd be an Olympic middle-distance runner. Others to impress were Jones, and Bugg who were neck and neck most of the way, JKH (surprised me) and Spencer (also surprised me). Funnily enough, Jordan Lewis was last. But he was also the most vocal when the running finished, yelling at guys to get up off the ground and walk it out.

Having Lewis, Jones and Vince is the elder statesmen out on the track is a pretty nice thing. And along with the rest of the list, there's a definite confidence within the entire group. No longer do I shudder at certain players who in my mind shouldn't have been playing at AFL level. And the talent is insanely exciting. There's young talent everywhere, which no doubt adds to the positivity that was on display.

Standouts/player comments:

Sam Weideman, (similarly to Hogan a couple of years ago) is an imposing figure and presence. I think it's his body shape at this stage and the way he moves that excites. He just looks like a guy who is going to easily fill out his frame and with that will come further confidence. Beautiful hands and he just kept catching my eye today. Already looks close to Hogan's size.

Salem: He just looks bullet proof at the moment and is one I think could be a game-changer for us if he plays a full year in 2017. Looks like he is in really good condition and his foot-skills are just disgustingly good.

Gawn: Trains like he is a demigod. Knows he is the best ruckman in the league and looks driven to hold onto that mantle. Work-rate and intensity over the duration of the session was really impressive as well as skills and ball-handling below his knees. If he remains injury free, he'll be AA again without a doubt.

Harmes: Just a smart player in my eyes. A footballers footballer. I know people knock his disposal at times, but generally I think it's an execution problem rather than a decision making one. He moves so well and just looks so natural kicking on both feet. Will be a really handy rotating mid in a few years I reckon.

Brayshaw and Petracca: Can't wait until they reach that 100 game mark. Brayshaw looks fit, I like his left over his right foot but it's pretty handy that he is dual-sided. (Still not on Mitchell's level which is something I keep hearing).

ANB: Looks like a man on a mission, was vocal, was hard on himself and was angry at others for not "[censored] spread"(ing)! 

Garland: (For Wiseblood) - Deliberately tried to ignore him because of my propensity to criticize him. But I will say this: No left foot, constantly looks exhausted, can't see him as a best 22 player... 

Overall, the man-love and mateship between all players but particularly the young talent is pretty contagious for the group. At one stage I thought Petracca was going to kiss Hogan but it didn't happen. The positivity, intensity and overall vibe has clearly changed from sessions I've been to before and you can tell that they're super confident in each other and individually. It's an exciting time, of that I'm certain.

Any questions, feel free.

STMJ

Great report well done.

2 comments. First, re Salem: nothing about great foot skills should be described as in any way disgusting (joke)

Second. I am pretty confident the FD would be regretting the 4 years given to Garland. A once good player, but no longer in our best 30.

[binman 42,920]

What ia bit strange about the situation with H is it would appear he didn't attend at all. If he has an injury, fair enough  and i don't doubt he is experiencing issues related to his concussion but then why not go into the rehab group. I mean its the first day of training for the senior player and we brought him in to the club in large part for his leadership. So why the no show? He wouldn't have even had to do anyhting, just say g'day to the new blokes and get around his team mates. Any whoo something is amiss

[AzzKikA 2,371]

12 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Stayed for around an hour and a half, they came out later than 11 and it was fairly warm so I left not long after they began a full-ground drill.

 

How dare you derail the H thread! Oh wait....

Thanks Steve great in depth stuff, appreciated, even if I did have to wade through pages of debate about a player that already has its own thread.

Edited November 21, 2016 by AzzKikA
Cut the quote short, for easier reading.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

1 hour ago, McQueen said:

So does this mean the clubs, or the AFL's concussion testing procedure is still lacking?

If Lumumba is still looking for answers for symptoms he's still experiencing then I'm really surprised by that - the fact they've passed all tests thus far.

Who knows what the fark is going on. I'm completely aware of the inconsistent messages that have been released in regards to his health. Firstly him being cleared by the medical team to train vs today's report.

But clearly the amount of vitriol coming from certain posters in regards to him is coming directly from their annoyance that he is 'different'.

But this isn't thread to go there.

(Feel free to move this post, Mod-people).

Edited November 21, 2016 by stevethemanjordan

[Redleg 40,905]

4 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

 

But clearly the amount of vitriol coming from certain posters in regards to him is coming directly from their annoyance that he is 'different'.

But this isn't thread to go there.

I disagree here Steve. Posters I would think are not concerned about any "differences", but rather having a bloke on the list, who doesn't play.

Personally I am not too fussed about today, as he may be doing some other training, but rather the fact that he is apparently still injured, after missing most of the season.

Edited November 21, 2016 by Redleg

[Salems Lot 2,529]

1 hour ago, nutbean said:

I'd suggest that if Lumumba is walking like a duck and quacking like a duck then there is every chance he has concussion (and more)

With Christmas approaching, its a bad time to be doing duck impressions!!

[beelzebub 23,364]

1 minute ago, Salems Lot said:

With Christmas approaching, its a bad time to be doing duck impressions!!

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I'm loving this Heritier Lumumba thread.

[Willmoy1947 4,085]

1 hour ago, old dee said:

That line reads in normal speak as " we have to say this so we don't get sued for not taking care of him" .

And when was the last time we believed any FD when they are trying to find a way out.

When Clark was going through his process all we heard was he will be back when over his injuries.

Then a pay out is announced.

Am I a cynic?

Yes

I am gunna keep the faith 'cause i like him....

[Dante 2,739]

2 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Stayed for around an hour and a half, they came out later than 11 and it was fairly warm so I left not long after they began a full-ground drill.

I'll leave the moment-by-moment commentary to those who are good at it, I'd rather describe the things that stood out to me during the time I was there as well as answer any questions to those who have them.

Rehab group from what I saw: Trengove, AVB, Stretch, King, Viney, T-Mac, JKH, Oliver, Kent and Hibberd. (May have missed a couple). T-Mac, JKH and Kent all did the running component with those who were due back today. (The ones who started a few weeks back were exempt from the running component from what I understand).

Everyone else was there except Lumumba as has been previously discussed.

Early observations: 

Attending training sessions is a rarity for me, but the one thing that continually surprises me when I do attend them is the sheer size of AFL players in general. As an MCC member who sits second level most weeks, it's hard to get a gauge on the size of AFL bodies compared to 'average-sized' humans like myself. Stretch for example walked passed me on the boundary-line and I couldn't really believe the size of him. I'm 180 cm which is his height but he was much thicker than I thought. No doubt this isn't news to regular attendees. 

The rehab guys did their own running component, Stretch and Trengove did a few timed laps and another thing that stood out was again the difference in body shape/mechanics of those two. Stretch's lower half, especially his glutes/quads and hammies are much more developed than Trengoves and he also clearly carries less weight on his torso. Trengove on the other hand has a bulky upper body with a slightly hunched back but his lower half is much less developed, especially his glutes and calves which seem disproportionate to his upper half. Again, probably obvious to some but one can clearly see that with a body like his, it makes sense that he is so one-paced. Out of the rehab group, I'd be interested to know why Trengove, Oliver and Stretch were part of it. (If anyone knows the answer.)

Running observations: 

The running component for the guys who were due back today lasted about 5-6 minutes at what seemed like a 'as hard as you can go' intensity for the entirety of it. No surprises Tom McDonald blitzed the field and if AFL wasn't his caper, he'd be an Olympic middle-distance runner. Others to impress were Jones, and Bugg who were neck and neck most of the way, JKH (surprised me) and Spencer (also surprised me). Funnily enough, Jordan Lewis was last. But he was also the most vocal when the running finished, yelling at guys to get up off the ground and walk it out.

Having Lewis, Jones and Vince is the elder statesmen out on the track is a pretty nice thing. And along with the rest of the list, there's a definite confidence within the entire group. No longer do I shudder at certain players who in my mind shouldn't have been playing at AFL level. And the talent is insanely exciting. There's young talent everywhere, which no doubt adds to the positivity that was on display.

Standouts/player comments:

Sam Weideman, (similarly to Hogan a couple of years ago) is an imposing figure and presence. I think it's his body shape at this stage and the way he moves that excites. He just looks like a guy who is going to easily fill out his frame and with that will come further confidence. Beautiful hands and he just kept catching my eye today. Already looks close to Hogan's size.

Salem: He just looks bullet proof at the moment and is one I think could be a game-changer for us if he plays a full year in 2017. Looks like he is in really good condition and his foot-skills are just disgustingly good.

Gawn: Trains like he is a demigod. Knows he is the best ruckman in the league and looks driven to hold onto that mantle. Work-rate and intensity over the duration of the session was really impressive as well as skills and ball-handling below his knees. If he remains injury free, he'll be AA again without a doubt.

Harmes: Just a smart player in my eyes. A footballers footballer. I know people knock his disposal at times, but generally I think it's an execution problem rather than a decision making one. He moves so well and just looks so natural kicking on both feet. Will be a really handy rotating mid in a few years I reckon.

Brayshaw and Petracca: Can't wait until they reach that 100 game mark. Brayshaw looks fit, I like his left over his right foot but it's pretty handy that he is dual-sided. (Still not on Mitchell's level which is something I keep hearing).

ANB: Looks like a man on a mission, was vocal, was hard on himself and was angry at others for not "[censored] spread"(ing)! 

Garland: (For Wiseblood) - Deliberately tried to ignore him because of my propensity to criticize him. But I will say this: No left foot, constantly looks exhausted, can't see him as a best 22 player... 

Overall, the man-love and mateship between all players but particularly the young talent is pretty contagious for the group. At one stage I thought Petracca was going to kiss Hogan but it didn't happen. The positivity, intensity and overall vibe has clearly changed from sessions I've been to before and you can tell that they're super confident in each other and individually. It's an exciting time, of that I'm certain.

Any questions, feel free.

STMJ

Great summary STMJ, I'm a big fan of Harmes and I'm glad that there is at least one other who sees a bit of talent there.

Salem too, I think the last game he played was a sample of his talent, he will be a beauty, I still can't believe there were some on here suggesting we use him as trade bait. Gus is another who will shine this year, he had a couple of concussions last year and some wanted to write him off, do so at your own peril.

Appreciate the time you've taken to share your thoughts.

 

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

44 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

 

But clearly the amount of vitriol coming from certain posters in regards to him is coming directly from their annoyance that he is 'different'.

 

Thanks for the report Steve but this statement is a bit off the mark.  I, like I assume most, are commenting on the situation.  I've got nothing again the player but in view the situation as one that has to be managed by the club.  Obviously we don't know all the facts (like the Oliver case) but we can discuss it surely.  I don't give a flying toss that H is different, I just want him to be a productive player for the club.  If he isn't I'll consider the options.

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

Great summary by STMJ.  Like the observations about the players rather than simply going over the drills.  Great work mate.  Perhaps we can leave H alone now?????

[Willmoy1947 4,085]

STMJ how is Hulett looking in comparison to Weideman and Hogan size wise and moving wise please?

[nutbean 8,838]

17 minutes ago, Dante said:

Great summary STMJ, I'm a big fan of Harmes and I'm glad that there is at least one other who sees a bit of talent there.

 

I like Harmes hardness and willingness to run - he does need to clean up his disposal. 

The league is littered with players who can get the ball but aren't clean enough in their disposal. We have learned from great Hawthorn sides that other clubs can have hardness and ball winning ability in spades but you need the great majority of your team being good by foot to take that next step.

[Copuchas 763]

6 minutes ago, willmoy said:

STMJ how is Hulett looking in comparison to Weideman and Hogan size wise and moving wise please?

Hulett spent quite a bit of time on the boundary getting treatment for a leg or hip related issue.  To my eye, he actually looks a bit leaner than his Casey playing condition last year.  Certainly larger than Weideman (who has only put on marginal muscle mass to this stage of the summer but who moves well).  Just on SMJ's report, I saw Frost as the laggard of the running group and saw Lewis (wearing no 8 to confuse) in the concurrent handballing drills being undertaken by the others!

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

2 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Thanks for the report Steve but this statement is a bit off the mark.  I, like I assume most, are commenting on the situation.  I've got nothing again the player but in view the situation as one that has to be managed by the club.  Obviously we don't know all the facts (like the Oliver case) but we can discuss it surely.  I don't give a flying toss that H is different, I just want him to be a productive player for the club.  If he isn't I'll consider the options.

I said "certain" posters. Clearly not all. Clearly.

1 hour ago, willmoy said:

STMJ how is Hulett looking in comparison to Weideman and Hogan size wise and moving wise please?

Hulett is really well developed, no different to last year in my eyes. Moving-wise he looks a lot heavier on his feet than Hoges and Weeds. It's hard to get a read on him cause I've only seen a bit of footage from Casey games last year but he reminds me of your yesteryear type of forward. Big and slow. 

Edited November 21, 2016 by stevethemanjordan

[Cards13 9,117]

2 hours ago, binman said:

What ia bit strange about the situation with H is it would appear he didn't attend at all. If he has an injury, fair enough  and i don't doubt he is experiencing issues related to his concussion but then why not go into the rehab group. I mean its the first day of training for the senior player and we brought him in to the club in large part for his leadership. So why the no show? He wouldn't have even had to do anyhting, just say g'day to the new blokes and get around his team mates. Any whoo something is amiss

Bin attending the outdoor session and attending indoor are 2 different things. The ground is unfortunately not next to the "club rooms" for us. He may be in the gym, on the bikes who knows why inside. 

Otherwise thanks to all as always for the reports much appreciated. Is it rnd 1 yet?! How nice to not be looking fwd to the draft.

[Satyriconhome 10,872]

Garlett was a no show also and Melksham joined in main group so must be ahead of Hibberd with fitness.

Couldn't stay long today - work called.

Oliver was crook last week so probably rehab for the week, Trengove will be eased back in.

Stretch just managing his body.

[Adam The God 30,239]

2 hours ago, old dee said:

It really helped with Clark TPF39

Not everyone is Clark, OD. We still did the right thing there too.

[olisik 4,060]

1 hour ago, Satyriconhome said:

Garlett was a no show also and Melksham joined in main group so must be ahead of Hibberd with fitness.

Couldn't stay long today   work called.

Oliver was crook last week so probably rehab for the week, Trengove will be eased back in.

Stretch just managing his body.

Surprised Trengove will be eased in. He did play until the end of last year and was due to have a big pre season to get his explosiveness back as a last ditch effort. 

Would have expected him to be ready and raring to rock it with the main group from day 1.

[Willmoy1947 4,085]

17 minutes ago, stevethemanjordan said:

I said "certain" posters. Clearly not all. Clearly.

Hullett is really well developed, no different to last year in my eyes. Moving-wise he looks a lot heavier on his feet than Hoges and Weeds. It's hard to get a read on him cause I've only seen a bit of footage from Casey games last year but he reminds me of your yesteryear type of forward. Big and slow. 

Just a little on that point you make about body structure, are there a lot of players per Club would you think that noticeably change their body shape for the better say from now to game One under instruction from the boffins and medicos? One would think no stone would be left unturned to get these blokes if good enough into the Big League, and not only support for the magoos.