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Training - Friday 18th November, 2016


waynewussell

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5 hours ago, Older demon said:

Isn't it obvious he is copying Shane Woewodin and trying to win a Brownlow by attracting the attention of the umps.....

Frankly I thought it was Jason Ackermanis! ?

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As a fairly regular observer at Gosch's training (and a very occasional DL contributor), I've recently moved to Italy and am even more appreciative of the training reports.  This current crop is exceptional and the fact that they aren't tainted by the petty vitriol that would often emerge in the past is an added bonus.  Thanks lads.

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12 hours ago, McQueen said:

So did Jordan Lewis turn up or does he get another week or two off because he played a couple of finals for that shitty club he used to play for?

Steve the word is he was asking for the staff to carry him in on his Jason Lay Z Boy recliner but that was denied so he then requested to be carried in on a bed of Laurels.Also denied.

Next he wanted a red carpet rolled out which they are working on but I reckon he will come back fat from dining out on past glories

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10 hours ago, Redleg said:

Thought his Casey Prelim was fantastic. He really showed something. Continued improvement could see him make it. Our next Hunt, though a bit different.

Yes ... we saw Joel Smith play what was probably his best game for the Scorpions in the Preliminary Final but that was one out of the box. For the most part, his season was a learning experience and his form was patchy but I doubt that the club expected anything less from a young bloke making the transition from one sport to another. 

The good news is that he appears to have come back in great shape which gives him the best possible chance of breaking into the team. 

Thankfully, the club has at last started to invest in the potential of Category B recruits. Perhaps, we might try out an Irish player again.

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2 hours ago, Stinga2 said:

There were some reports we were in the running for one signed recently.

And with out knowing much about him, he sounded a real prospect with his background and I am disappointed we missed out on him.

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4 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Yes ... we saw Joel Smith play what was probably his best game for the Scorpions in the Preliminary Final but that was one out of the box. For the most part, his season was a learning experience and his form was patchy but I doubt that the club expected anything less from a young bloke making the transition from one sport to another. 

The good news is that he appears to have come back in great shape which gives him the best possible chance of breaking into the team. 

Thankfully, the club has at last started to invest in the potential of Category B recruits. Perhaps, we might try out an Irish player again.

 

3 hours ago, Stinga2 said:

There were some reports we were in the running for one signed recently.

 

 

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

And with out knowing much about him, he sounded a real prospect with his background and I am disappointed we missed out on him.

 

1 hour ago, Satyriconhome said:

We always talk about homesickness,  Hogan anyone, for every Irish succes there are 3 or 4 who go home

I think we are using the category B picks well with Smith & Maynard. If we find a good Irish prospect so be it but as 'Sat' says they are a bigger flight risk...

Edited by rjay
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22 hours ago, Beetle said:

Half as good as Howe? Yuck.

Umm Howe is a quality player who is/was chronically under valued around here as a 3rd/4th intercept defender. He had a very good season at Collingwood as that defender and finished in their top 5 in the B and F.

We all thought he was a 3rd/4th forward but he was crap in that position and as a result became maligned. 

I believe we would've been better a side with Howe in 2016 in our back 6.

Sounds like Smith could be a Jeremy Howe type defender with his leap and ability to take a mark.

Edited by Bring-Back-Powell
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5 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Umm Howe is a quality player who is/was chronically under valued around here as a 3rd/4th intercept defender. He had a very good season at Collingwood as that defender and finished in their top 5 in the B and F.

We all thought he was a 3rd/4th forward but he was crap in that position and as a result became maligned. 

I believe we would've been better a side with Howe in 2016 in our back 6.

Sounds like Smith could be a Jeremy Howe type defender with his leap and ability to take a mark.

I'd have Hunt before him and I think Hibberd and Vince, would be better options as well, I cant see him being missed this year and I doubt he'd be getting a game every week. The club obviously value Wagner as well and then you have Melksham.

Some of Howe's marks were just brilliant, but they were, at times, outweighed by his brain fades immediately after.

 

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8 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Yes ... we saw Joel Smith play what was probably his best game for the Scorpions in the Preliminary Final but that was one out of the box.

I'm not so sure that it was one out of the box.  I saw him early in the season and was very impressed with his attributes but he struggled to find the ball.  At the end of the season he was getting involved much more and still doing good things.  His preliminary final was good but not a standout compared to some of his later games after he recovered from his groin injury in the middle of the season.  I've heard from some sources inside the club he was seriously considered for a debut in the last two rounds of the AFL season so I think your estimation of him is off target.

This kid has it all IMO.  He has pace, he's got good hands, he attacks the ball very hard, he's agile, has a really good leap that allows him to play taller than he is and is a natural looking kick.  He is learning to find the ball and he is learning where to kick it and how to make good decisions.  Once he's got these things bedded down he will make an impact at AFL level.

One thing I don't know about is his tank. To those that have been to training this year, how is he going in the running?  Keeping up or struggling?

I think it's safe to be very bullish about this kid.

Oh, and BBP, I agree with you that Howe gets a terrible rap here.  He's a very serviceable back that provides the ability to spoil and is a good kick.  I'm not sure what our exact trade was for Howe as it seemed to be mixed up with Toump and Kennedy and a few picks but so far I think Collingwood would be very pleased with the outcome.  Having said that he plays a position we have ample resources for and I don't think we are suffering not having him.  But credit where credit is due, he's a very good footballer and the Pies got a good deal.

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9 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Yes ... we saw Joel Smith play what was probably his best game for the Scorpions in the Preliminary Final but that was one out of the box. For the most part, his season was a learning experience and his form was patchy but I doubt that the club expected anything less from a young bloke making the transition from one sport to another. 

The good news is that he appears to have come back in great shape which gives him the best possible chance of breaking into the team. 

Thankfully, the club has at last started to invest in the potential of Category B recruits. Perhaps, we might try out an Irish player again.

Conor McGregor?

Edited by Luther
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13 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Yes ... we saw Joel Smith play what was probably his best game for the Scorpions in the Preliminary Final but that was one out of the box. For the most part, his season was a learning experience and his form was patchy but I doubt that the club expected anything less from a young bloke making the transition from one sport to another. 

The good news is that he appears to have come back in great shape which gives him the best possible chance of breaking into the team. 

Thankfully, the club has at last started to invest in the potential of Category B recruits. Perhaps, we might try out an Irish player again.

 

3 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

Nah, too soft

Or even an American or Canadian ?

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5 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I'm not so sure that it was one out of the box.  I saw him early in the season and was very impressed with his attributes but he struggled to find the ball.  At the end of the season he was getting involved much more and still doing good things.  His preliminary final was good but not a standout compared to some of his later games after he recovered from his groin injury in the middle of the season.  I've heard from some sources inside the club he was seriously considered for a debut in the last two rounds of the AFL season so I think your estimation of him is off target.

This kid has it all IMO.  He has pace, he's got good hands, he attacks the ball very hard, he's agile, has a really good leap that allows him to play taller than he is and is a natural looking kick.  He is learning to find the ball and he is learning where to kick it and how to make good decisions.  Once he's got these things bedded down he will make an impact at AFL level.

One thing I don't know about is his tank. To those that have been to training this year, how is he going in the running?  Keeping up or struggling?

I think it's safe to be very bullish about this kid. 

I know the club has a high regard of Smith but the figures don't bear out your argument. 

Smith's preliminary final game was his best for the year statistically. He scored 79 dream team points that day and this was matched by him only once after he recovered from his groin injury and that was against Coburg when the team won by 14 goals. His next best was in the 60's in his first game back from injury against Sandringham. He was well behind the team average and wasn't getting named in the best players or polling votes from the umpires. I didn't go back to check his stats pre injury - I saw enough to say he was patchy. 

He's a good prospect and has come back in good nick but let's not get too carried away just yet.

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On 18 November 2016 at 3:04 PM, Domgus Petrogan said:

Oscar looks like he is starting to build up to a good size. 

Anyone from those there today note the same?

IMG_2970.JPG

Wow, he is a lot taller then on TV.

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19 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Umm Howe is a quality player who is/was chronically under valued around here as a 3rd/4th intercept defender. He had a very good season at Collingwood as that defender and finished in their top 5 in the B and F.

We all thought he was a 3rd/4th forward but he was crap in that position and as a result became maligned. 

I believe we would've been better a side with Howe in 2016 in our back 6.

Sounds like Smith could be a Jeremy Howe type defender with his leap and ability to take a mark.

...and Terlich finished 3rd in ours a few years back.

Collingwood were a very average team this year and Howe was one of their better defenders, whilst not a great kick he was entrusted kick in duties at Collingwood. Shows more about them than him. Not sure it backs up your point about him as a quality player.

I thinks he's not a bad player, quality is probably pushing it a bit.

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11 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

I know the club has a high regard of Smith but the figures don't bear out your argument. 

Smith's preliminary final game was his best for the year statistically. He scored 79 dream team points that day and this was matched by him only once after he recovered from his groin injury and that was against Coburg when the team won by 14 goals. His next best was in the 60's in his first game back from injury against Sandringham. He was well behind the team average and wasn't getting named in the best players or polling votes from the umpires. I didn't go back to check his stats pre injury - I saw enough to say he was patchy. 

He's a good prospect and has come back in good nick but let's not get too carried away just yet.

Sorry, thought by "one out of the box" you meant that his performance was markedly better  in the PF than any he'd shown during the season but as you say above his stats indicate that he was statistically as good against Coburg and good against Sandringham.  I saw both those games live as well as the Prelim and the games were similar in standard although unlike you I prefer to trust my eye rather than rely on stats. By your measure a number of our delisted players would have been regulars in the seniors.

Anyway it's as much the attributes he shows as possessions and the stats don't show these. And I doubt he'd be considered close to senior selection if his form was much below what he showed in the PF. 

You're welcome to "not get too carried away".  I like to back my judgement and I'll get as excited as I like about Joel as I know many in the FD are.  As for others, they can suit themselves.

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7 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Sorry, thought by "one out of the box" you meant that his performance was markedly better  in the PF than any he'd shown during the season but as you say above his stats indicate that he was statistically as good against Coburg and good against Sandringham.  I saw both those games live as well as the Prelim and the games were similar in standard although unlike you I prefer to trust my eye rather than rely on stats. By your measure a number of our delisted players would have been regulars in the seniors.

Anyway it's as much the attributes he shows as possessions and the stats don't show these. And I doubt he'd be considered close to senior selection if his form was much below what he showed in the PF. 

You're welcome to "not get too carried away".  I like to back my judgement and I'll get as excited as I like about Joel as I know many in the FD are.  As for others, they can suit themselves.

Fair enough. VP - I think we've been the eternal optimists about our young prospects. I temper my expectations a little these days because I've learned from the lessons of the past. I still remember a group of Demon fans salivating after Michael Newton performed party tricks and kicked a swag of goals for Sandringham one day in the mid 2000s and look how that turned out.

Incidentally, my observations on Joel Smith were based partly on observation and partly on statistics. None of his stats were sensational - not even in his best game.  

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4 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Fair enough. VP - I think we've been the eternal optimists about our young prospects. I temper my expectations a little these days because I've learned from the lessons of the past.

I think half the fun of footy is being optimistic but again if you're a little jaded I can understand your approach even if it is a little defeatist.

I've been chatting to ProDee who pointed out some really interesting things.  He said Jayden Hunt in 2015 played 7 games for the Casey seniors and his highest stats were 11 (twice).  Smith got 11 disposals or more in 10 of his 13 games.  He also observed that Smith got 20 possessions three time last year (one was the PF) so by comparison he's well ahead of Hunt's 2015 and the PF was not an aberration but a continuation of his development.

He went on to point out that Dreamteam stats are a silly way to judge a defender.  They ignore a players ability to stop his forward and even excellent defenders like Tom McDonald only average 68 points a game.  Anyway I'm excited about him and think he will be a very good player. I suggest you get on board.

Edited by Whispering_Jack
Removed reference to a banned poster after investigating the reasons for the banning.
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34 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Fair enough. VP - I think we've been the eternal optimists about our young prospects. I temper my expectations a little these days because I've learned from the lessons of the past. I still remember a group of Demon fans salivating after Michael Newton performed party tricks and kicked a swag of goals for Sandringham one day in the mid 2000s and look how that turned out.

Incidentally, my observations on Joel Smith were based partly on observation and partly on statistics. None of his stats were sensational - not even in his best game.  

OMG please don't speak of Newton. You'll set one particular unhinged poster off..........

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19 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

I think it's safe to be very bullish about this kid.

Good post, Vogon. And I agree with you on the bullishness. Understand WJ's caution, as we've all been burned before on the Next Big Thing. Comparisons between players are not necessarily helpful, but your Jayden Hunt reference may be indicative here of where Joel Smith goes this season. I am very, very bullish - he has a lot of football weapons. 

20 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

One thing I don't know about is his tank. To those that have been to training this year, how is he going in the running?  Keeping up or struggling?

I don't think there is anything to worry about on this score, based on the brief bits of training I've seen and talking to more regular track-watchers about this particular aspect. 

Permission to get excited. He stays healthy, he'll be an exciting player over coming seasons, hopefully showing quite a bit next year.

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