DUMB & DUMBER - OUR MATCH DAY COACHING

[Cranky Franky 2,058]

I'm not going to criticise Paul Roos because overall he has been wonderful for the Club but the match day coaching yesterday was terrible & arguably cost us any chance of a win. 

Selections were poor.  With Garlett out the obvious move was to bring in Kennedy Harris or Ben Kennedy for their crumbing ability & I thought Salem was the obvious replacement for Harmes. 

Also why on earth drop Pedersen who has been handy & is a strong body in wet conditions.

To the game - Carlton have 3 dangerous players Cripps & Gibbs on the ball & Simpson in defence who sets them up.  None of these 3 had a hard tag.  Vince who was scratchy in defence should have gone on to Cripps. As is was we were beaten in the clearances & centre bounces.

The team failed to adapt to wet weather & continued to overuse handball usually until they turned over the ball.

Melbourne allowed Carlton to have a spare defender most of the day which resulted in them taking lots of uncontested marks.

Dumb, dumb, dumb match day coaching.  And seriously in this day & age why do our players have the wrong boots on & keep falling over. 

  

 

[beelzebub 23,355]

Just now, Cranky Franky said:

I'm not going to criticise Paul Roos because overall he has been wonderful for the Club but the match day coaching yesterday was terrible & arguably cost us any chance of a win. 

Selections were poor.  With Garlett out the obvious move was to bring in Kennedy Harris or Ben Kennedy for their crumbing ability & I thought Salem was the obvious replacement for Harmes. 

Also why on earth drop Pedersen who has been handy & is a strong body in wet conditions.

To the game - Carlton have 3 dangerous players Cripps & Gibbs on the ball & Simpson in defence who sets them up.  None of these 3 had a hard tag.  Vince who was scratchy in defence should have gone on to Cripps. As is was we were beaten in the clearances & centre bounces.

The team failed to adapt to wet weather & continued to overuse handball usually until they turned over the ball.

Melbourne allowed Carlton to have a spare defender most of the day which resulted in them taking lots of uncontested marks.

Dumb, dumb, dumb match day coaching.  And seriously in this day & age why do our players have the wrong boots on & keep falling over. 

  

 

like x 100

been saying for a while now our game day is always about 30 mins too slow

[dazzledavey36 54,880]

meh i swear all this stuff was discussed in the post match thread.

[DeeZee 7,389]

Did we put a hard tag on Cripps Coz he totally owned us.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

Just quietly i have heard rumors Paul Roos will be moved on at seasons end.

Read on to it what you will

[Wiseblood 24,637]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

meh i swear all this stuff was discussed in the post match thread.

It always is, dazzle.  There is always someone who thinks their views are worth starting a new thread over.

I do like how he claims not to want to criticise Paul Roos, yet the heading is 'dumb and dumber', which implies that he is doing this on a consistent basis.  

How quick we forget the wins when things don't go our way.

[Satyriconhome 10,872]

2 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

I'm not going to criticise Paul Roos because overall he has been wonderful for the Club but the match day coaching yesterday was terrible & arguably cost us any chance of a win. 

Selections were poor.  With Garlett out the obvious move was to bring in Kennedy Harris or Ben Kennedy for their crumbing ability & (A)I thought Salem was the obvious replacement for Harmes. 

(B)Also why on earth drop Pedersen who has been handy & is a strong body in wet conditions.

To the game - Carlton have 3 dangerous players Cripps & Gibbs on the ball & Simpson in defence who sets them up.  None of these 3 had a hard tag.  Vince who was scratchy in defence should have gone on to Cripps. As is was we were beaten in the clearances & centre bounces.

The team failed to adapt to wet weather & continued to overuse handball usually until they turned over the ball.

Melbourne allowed Carlton to have a spare defender most of the day which resulted in them taking lots of uncontested marks.

Dumb, dumb, dumb match day coaching.  And seriously (C) in this day & age why do our players have the wrong boots on & keep falling over. 

  

 

(A) Why, perhaps after his debilitating illness footy dept thought he needed a few more miles in his legs at VFL, rather than risk a hammy or other soft tissue injury

(B) To give the Hogan/Weideman combo a run

(C) have you tried to buy a pair of boots with long stops or screw in studs lately, if you find a pair let me know, my nephew needs a set

Edited August 22, 2016 by Satyriconhome
bloody smarfpheen

[Akum 2,660]

19 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

(A) Why, perhaps after his debilitating illness footy dept thought he needed a few more miles in his legs at VFL, rather than risk a hammy or other soft tissue injury

(B) To give the Hogan/Weideman combo a run

(C) have you tried to buy a pair of boots with long stops or screw in studs lately, if you find a pair let me know, my nephew needs a set

There's a really interesting shot during the 2nd quarter (at about 2:25) of the highlights package on the AFL website. A large pile of moulded-sole boots lying near the Carlton bench. Seems they had other sets of boots ready (I'm assuming with long studs), they came prepared to use them if the conditions demanded, and they took the initiative to change them at quarter time.

There could have been a similar pile next to the Melbourne bench, but I wouldn't put my house on it. We don't prepare to that extent against teams below us.

So if you're looking for a pair of wet-weather boots for your nephew, maybe you could ask Carlton FC.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Akum

[Satyriconhome 10,872]

Just now, Akum said:

There's a really interesting shot during the 2nd quarter of the highlights package on the AFL website of a large pile of moulded-sole boots lying near the Carlton bench. They obviously had other sets of boots ready (I'm assuming with long studs), they came prepared to use them if the conditions demanded, and they took the initiative to change them at quarter time.

There could have been a similar pile next to the Melbourne bench, but I wouldn't put my house on it. We don't prepare to that extent against teams below us.

There is a boot that seems to have a moulded sole that is slightly different designed studs maybe they changed to them, haven't managed to find longer studs yet

[Biffen 12,943]

I'm told Roos plans to coach the last game from a banana lounge in a Hawaiian Shirt with a Pina Colada .

Apparently he will be writing the messages down on little surfboards and pushing them across a blow up pool to Goody who will have to translate them from Hawaiian back into English.

All the runners have been instructed to wear Grass skirts in keeping with the theme and the physios will be using coconut oil instead of Goanna oil.

The club insists that Roos is still 100% committed to seeing out the season but I don't buy it.

Edited August 22, 2016 by Biffen

[P-man 13,366]

Looking at it logically, if supporters can spot these things, it's a very safe bet that a room full of highly paid professionals can spot them. The question is why they aren't actioned upon.

We know previously there have been communication breakdowns between coaching box and players. You'd hope that was addressed sufficiently to ensure no repeats.

Is it possible that a hard tag was placed on the aforementioned players and simply not executed well? Possible but unlikely.

So failing these things, what could be the reasoning behind it? Perhaps some derived benefit in the future rather than the now? This would be disappointing given what was on the line on the weekend.

Whatever the case, I think a lot of supporters remain hopeful that Goodwin is a bit more flexible in his match day approach.

 

[Demi Dee 578]

Without cross referencing, I thought I read  an article by Jude Bolton on Paul Roos, on the weekend, that said Roos built onfield leadership by not making game day changes, but, allowing the players to stand up and make adjustments in game time. Obviously, this is reviewed and adjusted during the week and allowed to play out on game day. However frustrating this is, I guess this year has been dedicated to leadership development,at the cost of finals experience, to set up Goodwin for next year. I sympathise with the premise of above arguments, but, hope our emerging leaders are the better for it. 

[deeflog 679]

I'm not sure it's entirely only game day that needs to be questioned. Some of our selections through out the year on Thursday nights have been very questionable.

[Older demon 2,741]

17 minutes ago, Demi Dee said:

Without cross referencing, I thought I read  an article by Jude Bolton on Paul Roos, on the weekend, that said Roos built onfield leadership by not making game day changes, but, allowing the players to stand up and make adjustments in game time. Obviously, this is reviewed and adjusted during the week and allowed to play out on game day. However frustrating this is, I guess this year has been dedicated to leadership development,at the cost of finals experience, to set up Goodwin for next year. I sympathise with the premise of above arguments, but, hope our emerging leaders are the better for it. 

I read this and have written elsewhere that this gets down to on field leadership which I believe we are light on. With such a young team we miss the on field generals. Yes we have leaders who inspire by their desire and effort i.e. Viney, Jones but this is about empowering leaders to be an extension of the coach. To position players, move them and sense changes in momentum all comes with experience. GWS leaders were criticised last week for leaving a gap at the front of the pack for Naitanui to move into collect the ball and kick the winning goal and not directing younger players to fill the gaps.

Look at the role Heath Shaw plays down back, Corey Enright at Geelong, Hodge, Lewis and others at hawthorn while Jack, McVeigh, Kennedy and a host of others at Sydney are drilled into what to do. This is true leadership and our young group have a lot to learn. 

[Satyriconhome 10,872]

30 minutes ago, Demi Dee said:

Without cross referencing, I thought I read  an article by Jude Bolton on Paul Roos, on the weekend, that said Roos built onfield leadership by not making game day changes, but, allowing the players to stand up and make adjustments in game time. Obviously, this is reviewed and adjusted during the week and allowed to play out on game day. However frustrating this is, I guess this year has been dedicated to leadership development,at the cost of finals experience, to set up Goodwin for next year. I sympathise with the premise of above arguments, but, hope our emerging leaders are the better for it. 

Agreed, but you are testing comprehension skills of some, always looking for scapegoat(s) after a loss as well

[bing181 9,219]

1 minute ago, Older demon said:

Yes we have leaders who inspire by their desire and effort i.e. Viney, Jones but this is about empowering leaders to be an extension of the coach.

Yes. Has been cited before, but it's been said about teams like Hawthorn and the Swans that on match day, the team pretty well coaches itself on field.

I don't buy any of this re Roos and the supposed problems with match-day coaching. If there's a problem with match-day coaching, the moment to bring it up isn't after a bad loss, but after a win. It's during a win that you see the coaches' abilities on full display, and if there are deficiencies, that's where they'll be apparent.

But strangely enough, no-one put up one of these threads during our recent run of wins.

[Deecisive 1,709]

i agree the players on the field need to adjust as the game goes on. the eagles game last week is a prime example of richmond players staying in their half with stuff all time to go instead of bottling up the eagle forward line at the throw in. We fell for the same trap against the saints, players need to do adjust themselves instead of waiting for a runner to come out with a note from their mother to tell them the obvious.,

[dieter 3,325]

I find this stuff quite amusing in that most of the posts about this topic sound like they know more about the game/tactics then guys who have between them played hundreds of AFL games. They remind me of the Hansonite Clown who appeared on Q & A last week who knew all there is to know about climate change.

 

[poita 3,902]

13 hours ago, dieter said:

I find this stuff quite amusing in that most of the posts about this topic sound like they know more about the game/tactics then guys who have between them played hundreds of AFL games.

So you can't think of one thing that we could have done differently to change the course of the game on Saturday? Not a single tactic or move that might have made a difference? Because I sure didn't see anything done from the coaches box to change the course of a game that was out of control from the first minute.

[Akum 2,660]

Players shouldn't be expected to make coaching moves during a game. If Kade Simpson is the spare man in their defence, it's not up to the players on the ground to make the decisions about whether to cover him, who covers him, and what other adjustments need to be made. These are all decisions that should be made by coaches, not players.

On the other hand, nothing wrong with these decisions being decided in advance - "if they play a spare man in defence, this is who covers him and these are the other adjustments" - and then it's up to the players to work out when that predetermined plan needs to be activated.

[Cranky Franky 2,058]

24 minutes ago, Akum said:

Players shouldn't be expected to make coaching moves during a game. If Kade Simpson is the spare man in their defence, it's not up to the players on the ground to make the decisions about whether to cover him, who covers him, and what other adjustments need to be made. These are all decisions that should be made by coaches, not players.

On the other hand, nothing wrong with these decisions being decided in advance - "if they play a spare man in defence, this is who covers him and these are the other adjustments" - and then it's up to the players to work out when that predetermined plan needs to be activated.

It seems to me that both coaches and players are drilled to the extent that they have become robots & can't think outside the square.  I remember a time during games when full back Danny Hughes was thrown into the ruck & went on to win a B&F ditto Alan Johnson from wing to back pocket.   Rod Grinter going from half back to FF & won a game for us. Tony Campbell from FF to FB.  These days if plan A doesn't work you do nothing.

[Spirit of 26 261]

21 hours ago, Biffen said:

I'm told Roos plans to coach the last game from a banana lounge in a Hawaiian Shirt with a Pina Colada .

Apparently he will be writing the messages down on little surfboards and pushing them across a blow up pool to Goody who will have to translate them from Hawaiian back into English.

All the runners have been instructed to wear Grass skirts in keeping with the theme and the physios will be using coconut oil instead of Goanna oil.

The club insists that Roos is still 100% committed to seeing out the season but I don't buy it.

You are so wrong. He'll be drinking a Mai Tai.

[McQueen 17,864]

Interesting when Robert Walls said that Worsfold was a poor coach (last year by memory) saying that given the quality of the list during those years, the Eagles should've been more successful.

Same can be said for Roos. No doubt he's saved this club, along with PJ but he is a seriously shyte match day coach.

Edited August 23, 2016 by McQueen
Mid 2000's era.

[SaberFang 7,151]

I would actually like to see Goodwin coach on Saturday. What's the point in Roos coaching in the box now that finals are out of the equation?

[Demon Disciple 12,122]

8 minutes ago, SaberFang said:

I would actually like to see Goodwin coach on Saturday. What's the point in Roos coaching in the box now that finals are out of the equation?

Can't hurt