POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 21

[DemonLad5 1,642]

Bluey probably

1 Gawn

2 Viney

3 Tyson

4 Jones

5 McDonald

[DemonLad5 1,642]

Hogan having a disappointing imo year and probably won't top last years goal tally

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

17 minutes ago, DemonLad5 said:

Hogan having a disappointing imo year and probably won't top last years goal tally

Is it a poor year or a poor month? He hasnt kicked a goal in a month and is only 5 goals off equaling last years goal tally. So he was on track to passing his tally with a month to run then he seemingly fell off the cliff after injuring himself in the St Kilda game. Tom Lynch is the "best young forward" and his career started 5 years ago! Hogan is streets ahead of where here was at this point. I wouldn't panic.

[DemonLad5 1,642]

10 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Is it a poor year or a poor month? He hasnt kicked a goal in a month and is only 5 goals off equaling last years goal tally. So he was on track to passing his tally with a month to run then he seemingly fell off the cliff after injuring himself in the St Kilda game. Tom Lynch is the "best young forward" and his career started 5 years ago! Hogan is streets ahead of where here was at this point. I wouldn't panic.

Fair enough. I think we all just had very high expectations for him this year. I think he needs to drop a bit of weight in the offseason to make him more mobile and quicker off the lead

Edited August 16, 2016 by DemonLad5

[bananas 428]

8 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

Another perfect score for Max in the coaches votes

10 Max Gawn (Melb)
7 Dom Tyson (Melb)
4 Nathan Jones (Melb)
4 Tom McDonald (Melb)
3 Bernie Vince (Melb)
1 Jared Polec (PA)
1 Ollie Wines (PA)

 

So how the hell is not in the top 10?  

 

AFLCA LEADERBOARD
105 Patrick Dangerfield (Geel) 
93 Rory Sloane (Adel) 
88 Marcus Bontempelli (WB)
88 Dustin Martin (Rich) 
80 Luke Shuey (WCE)
77 Dan Hannebery (Syd) 
77 Luke Parker (Syd) 
77 Joel Selwood (Geel)
67 Tom Lynch (GC)
65 Sam Mitchell (Haw)  

Was wondering the same thing, so just went back and did the maths. Gawn's on 63 for the year, so definitely knocking on the door of the top 10.

[Lucifers Hero 39,758]

Max isn't in the top 10 because he has shared BOG with Viney with the likes of Jones, Tyson etc  Other consistent good performances - Watts, Vince.

Those in the top 10 haven't had much consistent, competition from teammates for votes.  He will get his deserved recognition when selected as AA team (and should poll well in the Brownlow).

On a more frivolous note: given the number of times Max's bearded face appears in the newspapers he is streets ahead of everyone in the league as this year's 'pin up' boy.  Can't think of any other AFL player in the news week in/week out.

Didn't Petracca mention players have a go at a teammater who gets their mug shot in the news a lot?  Max would be winning that game!

[chook fowler 19,458]

He will never be able to get rid of his beard - it has become a very marketable trademark 

[Demon Jack 6,909]

1 hour ago, bananas said:

Was wondering the same thing, so just went back and did the maths. Gawn's on 63 for the year, so definitely knocking on the door of the top 10.

Incredibly impressive considering that aside from Tom Lynch, the remaining top spots on the leaderboard are filled by midfielders.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

1 hour ago, bananas said:

Was wondering the same thing, so just went back and did the maths. Gawn's on 63 for the year, so definitely knocking on the door of the top 10.

Right now, he should be considered one of the top five best players in the competition.

[Akum 2,660]

4 hours ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Is it a poor year or a poor month? He hasnt kicked a goal in a month and is only 5 goals off equaling last years goal tally. So he was on track to passing his tally with a month to run then he seemingly fell off the cliff after injuring himself in the St Kilda game. Tom Lynch is the "best young forward" and his career started 5 years ago! Hogan is streets ahead of where here was at this point. I wouldn't panic.

He is getting held & blocked & scragged like no one I've ever seen. It's not even like his opponents are in the least bit subtle about it.

I have a theory that it's worth keeping Dunn on the list, for no other reason than to niggle and hold and scrag Hogan at training until he works out a way of dealing with it. I think it's absolutely essential for his future - if he can work out how to combat these tactics, he'll be unstoppable in the years to come..

[Watts the matter 1,235]

3 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Max isn't in the top 10 because he has shared BOG with Viney with the likes of Jones, Tyson etc  Other consistent good performances - Watts, Vince.

Those in the top 10 haven't had much consistent, competition from teammates for votes.  He will get his deserved recognition when selected as AA team (and should poll well in the Brownlow).

On a more frivolous note: given the number of times Max's bearded face appears in the newspapers he is streets ahead of everyone in the league as this year's 'pin up' boy.  Can't think of any other AFL player in the news week in/week out.

Didn't Petracca mention players have a go at a teammater who gets their mug shot in the news a lot?  Max would be winning that game!

I'm pretty sure I've heard in the past that Gawn actually runs the fines for this.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,214]

Something I've noticed over the last couple of weeks is that our handballs in close and to release a player out of congestion have been exceptional. There has been nowhere near as much handballing to stationary targets and the handballs have been quickfire releases from one player to another and another until someone is in space. This seems to have really clicked for us and is a sign of 1) higher workrate and players being constantly on the move around stoppages and 2) more confidence in their teammates to keep control of the footy meaning they shoot handballs off without hesitating.

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Something I've noticed over the last couple of weeks is that our handballs in close and to release a player out of congestion have been exceptional. There has been nowhere near as much handballing to stationary targets and the handballs have been quickfire releases from one player to another and another until someone is in space. This seems to have really clicked for us and is a sign of 1) higher workrate and players being constantly on the move around stoppages and 2) more confidence in their teammates to keep control of the footy meaning they shoot handballs off without hesitating.

Confidence and Chemistry. More we build of this the better we will get. Coaches say our contested ball is high and thats good but as we get better at this we wont need it to be so high because 1 or 2 hard ball gets will result in us moving forward in space rather than the 4 or 5 attempts we need right now. Its been clear for some time that we have the right game plan and alot of the right players to move us into finals contention. Some more puzzle peices and continued work from the current kids we will get to a top 4 spot in the next few years. Albeit with some more disappointments along the way.  

[Pates 9,660]

10 hours ago, DemonLad5 said:

Hogan having a disappointing imo year and probably won't top last years goal tally

He had a very good first half to the year after round 2-3 but has tapered off. Fortunately the teams form has been good so there hasn't been a light shon on him. 

That said he's still learning his craft and was always going to have more attention this year. 

[Chook 15,013]

4 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Something I've noticed over the last couple of weeks is that our handballs in close and to release a player out of congestion have been exceptional. There has been nowhere near as much handballing to stationary targets and the handballs have been quickfire releases from one player to another and another until someone is in space. This seems to have really clicked for us and is a sign of 1) higher workrate and players being constantly on the move around stoppages and 2) more confidence in their teammates to keep control of the footy meaning they shoot handballs off without hesitating.

It's also a sign that we know know where our teammates are supposed to (and going to) be. That's really important because it's what separates the experienced and finals-ready teams from the developing ones.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,214]

1 hour ago, Chook said:

It's also a sign that we know know where our teammates are supposed to (and going to) be. That's really important because it's what separates the experienced and finals-ready teams from the developing ones.

Yep - and for all the talk of needing pace, if you can move the footy quickly by hand or foot it doesn't matter so much ho fast your players can sprint. Hawthorn prove this.

[Akum 2,660]

7 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Something I've noticed over the last couple of weeks is that our handballs in close and to release a player out of congestion have been exceptional. There has been nowhere near as much handballing to stationary targets and the handballs have been quickfire releases from one player to another and another until someone is in space. This seems to have really clicked for us and is a sign of 1) higher workrate and players being constantly on the move around stoppages and 2) more confidence in their teammates to keep control of the footy meaning they shoot handballs off without hesitating.

Totally agree that this has been happening, and that it's been essential to our improved midfield performance.

Earlier in the year they were all trying to get first hands on the ball. Now they seem to have decided who goes for first hands (usually Viney or Tyson, but also Oliver - I love it, by the way, when they put Oliver, Petracca & Brayshaw together at the centre bounce, with Hunt streaming off the back of the square), and the others work to get the receive or to break away or to stop oppo breakaways.

Have to complement Chunk here - it must go against all his footy instincts to resist jumping into the fray, and instead be the one who receives & breaks away from the stoppage. Not only will this  make him a much more dangerous player, especially once he tidies up his disposal; it may also prolong his career by preventing him being bashed around so much.

[Lucifers Hero 39,758]

Interesting discussion on players and 'pressure acts' ("The analysis goes well beyond just tackles, spoils and smothers, with Champion Data introducing pressure points in 2011.  Points are awarded for corralling (1.2), chasing (1.5), closing (2.75) and physical pressure (3.75))":

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2016-08-17/under-pressure-who-applies-the-heat-at-melbourne

No surprise that Viney is our no 1 for pressure acts. (7th in AFL)

A couple of 'not so obvious' are:

Josh Wagner has been the Demons' best pressure player with 10.8 points per game, (13th in AFL)

Jeff Garlett was dropped earlier in the season for his lack of forward pressure. But he has adjusted his attitude (No.20 in the AFL).

Helps explain why a particular player even gets a game when to us they shouldn't!  Yes, stats don't always mean much but 'pressure acts' is one the coaches hugely value but not easily visible to us.

I'm especially glad that Garlett turned his defensive game around after being dropped. 

[CBDees 3,167]

50 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Interesting discussion on players and 'pressure acts' ("The analysis goes well beyond just tackles, spoils and smothers, with Champion Data introducing pressure points in 2011.  Points are awarded for corralling (1.2), chasing (1.5), closing (2.75) and physical pressure (3.75))":

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2016-08-17/under-pressure-who-applies-the-heat-at-melbourne

No surprise that Viney is our no 1 for pressure acts. (7th in AFL)

A couple of 'not so obvious' are:

Josh Wagner has been the Demons' best pressure player with 10.8 points per game, (13th in AFL)

Jeff Garlett was dropped earlier in the season for his lack of forward pressure. But he has adjusted his attitude (No.20 in the AFL).

Helps explain why a particular player even gets a game when to us they shouldn't!  Yes, stats don't always mean much but 'pressure acts' is one the coaches hugely value but not easily visible to us.

I'm especially glad that Garlett turned his defensive game around after being dropped. 

Be interesting what the pressure act stat is for JKH our BOG for Casey last weekend.

[Dante 2,739]

55 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Interesting discussion on players and 'pressure acts' ("The analysis goes well beyond just tackles, spoils and smothers, with Champion Data introducing pressure points in 2011.  Points are awarded for corralling (1.2), chasing (1.5), closing (2.75) and physical pressure (3.75))":

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2016-08-17/under-pressure-who-applies-the-heat-at-melbourne

No surprise that Viney is our no 1 for pressure acts. (7th in AFL)

A couple of 'not so obvious' are:

Josh Wagner has been the Demons' best pressure player with 10.8 points per game, (13th in AFL)

Jeff Garlett was dropped earlier in the season for his lack of forward pressure. But he has adjusted his attitude (No.20 in the AFL).

Helps explain why a particular player even gets a game when to us they shouldn't!  Yes, stats don't always mean much but 'pressure acts' is one the coaches hugely value but not easily visible to us.

I'm especially glad that Garlett turned his defensive game around after being dropped. 

Three of our more maligned players Buggy, Harmesy and Wagnery do a lot of unheralded work and are all part of the overall structure of the side, pressure acts form part of their worth.  They all have problems with disposal, at times, but they do other things that more than make up for that.