POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 19

[Je Roos Salem 661]

Petracca could do with more confidence I think. Just doesn't quite gel with the team yet. Has to force his way into stoppages more and demand the ball

[Adam The God 30,644]

16 minutes ago, Undeeterred said:

Gold Coast did an interesting thing yesterday on Gawn and it killed us.

They designated a ruckman that wasn't Nicholls, who would engage Gawn at the throw up. Then Nicholls would come across and contest the tap, so he was two on one around the ground the whole game. 

Even when he did manage to get hands on it, he was in so much traffic he seemed to be not able to do much with it.

They employed a simple third man up for most of the second half and probably earlier. This has been happening against Gawn for weeks and our players never give him a chop out when things clearly aren't working. It's fine to keep your structures, but we need to look at giving Max a block in these situations. 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,460]

14 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

Getting talent in would be great but I think we currently have some talented kids and experienced types but really how we work together as a football team is absolute rubbish. I really struggle with why that is the case given we have Roos and a million dollar list of assistant coaches to educate our players. 

We've fielded the youngest team almost every week that's why. Roos has been here 3 years but look how many players on the weekend have only played about 20 games.

[Little Richard 6,265]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

We've fielded the youngest team almost every week that's why. Roos has been here 3 years but look how many players on the weekend have only played about 20 games.

As 'experts' constantly say, teams aren't at their best until there's an average of about 100 games from each player. By then most of them have obviously played together for quite a while, and we're a few years off that point. I think we're doing very well considering the age and games profile of the side.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,460]

13 hours ago, Ricky P said:

We've beaten every team below us except Essendon and Carlton (who we haven't played yet). We've only beaten one team above us.

But that's because we lost to them. Had we beat the Saints and Port we'd be 9th and on top of both of them.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,460]

12 hours ago, AdamFphlebeb said:

Just some food for thought.

In 2004, Hawthorn won 4 games and finished 15th with a percentage of 70.23.

In 2005, Hawthorn won 5 games and finished 14th with a percentage of 92.01.

In 2006, Hawthorn won 9 games and finished 11th with a percentage of 85.70.

In 2007, Hawthorn won 13 games and finished 5th with a percentage of 113.05.

In 2008, Hawthorn won 17 games and finished 2nd with a percentage of 131.85. They went on to pinch the flag and missed the finals altogether the following year.

My point? We're tracking at a relatively good pace. Obviously, the reason it's so frustrating for our supporters is that we've rebuilt 2 or 3 times since we last made it to the finals. 

I've said all season that we'll win 10-12 games. Obviously, we won't get 12, but I still think we'll get 10. Even if we don't, we'll get 8+ now, which is comparable with their 2006 season. But it looks like we'll have a stronger percentage than they had that year.

Natural improvement will come again next year as our young team gains more experience. Coupled with 1-2 important players that we acquire in FA/trading, hopefully they'll make us even better again.

So 11-13 wins next year should be the target and is likely if we continue on our current trajectory. That's a terrific foundation for Goody to build on in his second season, where we should be aiming for the top 4.

Of course, injuries can play a part (see the Bulldogs this year, who look like missing out on the top 4 now) and personnel changes, but Hawthorn's path shows some patience is required and that in fact, although it may be frustrating given what we've already been through, we are a real chance for some success starting 2017.

Agreed good post. As hard as it is, supporters really need to forget about 2007-2013 and realise this rebuild or whenever you want to call it should only be measured since 2014. The 2007-2013 rebuild failed.

[Sir Why You Little 37,342]

27 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don't think importing leadership works. You can have some peripheral leaders like Cross or Vince but the true leadership, that which drives the team towards success, will always come from within.

Then we are still in for a lot of pain  going forward. 

We have no real leaders at present. 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,460]

3 hours ago, Demon Jack said:

Stretch has fantastic pace. Coming along very nicely and ahead of schedule.

I've been very impressed with his development this year, he's tracking nicely. Didn't think he'd make it but he made the wing his own yesterday.

[John Crow Batty 8,886]

4 hours ago, america de cali said:

Where do think we would be if we beat sides like St Kilda And Port?

 And if we managed to have beaten Essendon also we would be in the eight.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,460]

3 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Then we are still in for a lot of pain  going forward. 

We have no real leaders at present. 

We do, they're just young.

Until the under 23yo's grow into the 24-27yo group we'll have to make do with Jones and imports.

[beelzebub 23,390]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I've been very impressed with his development this year, he's tracking nicely. Didn't think he'd make it but he made the wing his own yesterday.

turned back the clock

[DeeZee 7,463]

I'm loving Billy's development this year.

By all reports a real hard worker and just wants to get better and better.

Not only quick pace wise but a quick thinker as well.

[jnrmac 20,310]

1 hour ago, Dee Dee said:

As far as I am aware the playing surface is completely flat these days and was made so for the 2006 Commonwealth Games.

Prior to that time the ground was like a small hill, this being for drainage purposes. However today there is a special sand and pebble drainage structure under the grass that has successfully replaced the hill. This "fact" was given to me by a tour guide at the G a couple of years ago.

You may well be right. Sue's point about he players looking across the ground and seeing flashing coloured signage is a good one and I am surprised its not talked about more.

When you sit next to the fence it is actually difficult to make out players and distances with the lights flashing in your eyes.

[John Crow Batty 8,886]

Some of the excuses on here about about our painfully slow improvement have a familiar ring to them.

 

[Ricky P 757]

4 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

It may be seamless but can he actually coach?  Of course, we won't know for another 6-12 months. 

He has the best base possible for a 1st year coach: stable supportive club, mountains of talent, a well balanced team, a lot of his 'own picks' on the coaching staff, a seamless handover and a team poised to make a tilt for the top 8. 

Sorry to sound like a 'doubting Thomas' but I will wait till he has runs on the board before I jump on his bandwagon.  I hope for our sakes he shapes up.

No I think that's fair enough. As much as I'm confident we've done everything we can to pick the right bloke and give him the best possible preparation, it's still a relatively big 'if'.

[Sir Why You Little 37,342]

1 minute ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

We do, they're just young.

Until the under 23yo's grow into the 24-27yo group we'll have to make do with Jones and imports.

That won't cut it this time doctor. 

We cannot afford to "make do" anymore. 

This club has done that for years

Keeping poor leasers only brings in bad habits & by the time they (the kids) are 24-27 it is too hard to change that. 

We need non Melbourne leadership to get this team playing as a cohesive unit

[Mickey 4,757]

10 minutes ago, america de cali said:

 And if we managed to have beaten Essendon also we would be in the eight.

But we didn't. There is a reason we are below St Kilda and Port, and thats because, this year, they are better than us. Hence the ladder position. If you beat the teams below you and not those above you, you are exactly where you deserve to be.

[John Crow Batty 8,886]

1 minute ago, Mickey said:

But we didn't. There is a reason we are below St Kilda and Port, and thats because, this year, they are better than us. Hence the ladder position. If you beat the teams below you and not those above you, you are exactly where you deserve to be.

 

1 minute ago, Mickey said:

But we didn't. There is a reason we are below St Kilda and Port, and thats because, this year, they are better than us. Hence the ladder position. If you beat the teams below you and not those above you, you are exactly where you deserve to be.

I don't believe they are better than us. We blew too many chances we should have taken. 

[qwerty7 326]

18 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Jesse was the only player to wear a black armband today.  I suspect it wasn't for a family member otherwise teammates would have also worn one.   

But it was clearly someone close to Jesse.  This may have weighed heavily on him today.  Could also explain why he was so subdued for the team song.

He wore a black armband at a similar time last year too... I think it may have be in honour of a friend. 

[hemingway 7,633]

46 minutes ago, Undeeterred said:

Gold Coast did an interesting thing yesterday on Gawn and it killed us.

They designated a ruckman that wasn't Nicholls, who would engage Gawn at the throw up. Then Nicholls would come across and contest the tap, so he was two on one around the ground the whole game. 

Even when he did manage to get hands on it, he was in so much traffic he seemed to be not able to do much with it.

An age old tactic that has been used for ever by teams to combat a dominant ruckman. I think this has been used in other games this year, but it is going to become a common feature as Max has become one of the dominant big men of the competition. We need to be able to combat this tactic otherwise Max is going to become a very tired boy.

[Little Richard 6,265]

11 minutes ago, hemingway said:

An age old tactic that has been used for ever by teams to combat a dominant ruckman. I think this has been used in other games this year, but it is going to become a common feature as Max has become one of the dominant big men of the competition. We need to be able to combat this tactic otherwise Max is going to become a very tired boy.

It definitely didn't affect his dominance in tap outs, he won those 60 - 9. Wasn't as effective in the air though.

[ManDee 7,352]

14 hours ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

Ugh.

Watching recording of the game. 

Ugh. 

Self flagellation not enough for you?

[old dee 24,028]

2 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Self flagellation not enough for you?

Exactly Mandee.

My daughter recorded on Foxtel. Already told her delete once was enough.

[Adam The God 30,644]

53 minutes ago, america de cali said:

 And if we managed to have beaten Essendon also we would be in the eight.

I'm sorry, but we were never going to make the finals this year. Playing the youngest team every week dictates that there will be inconsistencies from week to week. Like GWS, they had all the talent in the world in their first few seasons, but their age demographic was all wrong. We're in a similar position and IMO it was foolhardy for anyone to expect us to make finals this year.

[Mickey 4,757]

33 minutes ago, america de cali said:

 

I don't believe they are better than us. We blew too many chances we should have taken. 

Again, we didn't.  They did. St kilda beat us comfortably twice. It may be our youth, it may be Etihad, but either way, we were not good enough to beat them