POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 18

[Akum 2,660]

1 hour ago, old dee said:

Simple answer Mr Leg they were in front on the scoreboard when the final siren blew.

that determines the winner. Plus that old adage " poor kicking is poor football" 

we are still not good enough to beat teams in the eight.

 

Sorry OD, but I think it's this attitude that's the problem. I hope it's not shared by the team. I agree with those who say it's all a mental thing. When we get in front in a close game against a good team in the last quarter, it's like we've entered territory that we haven't mentally prepared for. 

We clearly ARE capable of performing well enough to beat teams in the eight. But we must make that mental shift from "we can push top sides, but we're still not good enough to beat them" to "we can beat top sides". 

We must stop thinking we're at Richmond & Collingwood level, and start realising that we're actually on a par with Norf, WCE & Adelaide - the flaky sides of the eight. In terms of performance, we are definitely their equals. We just can't convert that performance into wins.

I agree that if you perform equally or better than the other team but don't win, you get exactly nothing. But there's also a vast difference between being able to repeatedly play to the standard of the top teams, being unable to get anywhere near that level.

[mrtwister 652]

If the boys are still on paleo then they could probably use some Grain-Free Gawny Granola.

[Satyriconhome 10,872]

13 minutes ago, Deestar9 said:

Did you think that just maybe this club with the youngest list need another preseason & some more games together....seriously when we have a loss like that I prefer to listen to the "measured" experts talk about us & also the envy from some of my football loving friends over the future potential of our list than the abject pessimism that pervades on here....as Roos said in his presser....yes we made glaring turnovers but as the players string more games together & gain confidence in each other these turnover are greatly reduced...before this season started the majority of the posters wanted more tightly contested games & no thrashings ...we have pretty much achieved this albeit with a very hard second half draw....because we have been so much more competitive we have now become super critical of our young players & have unreal expectations ....players regardless of who they are need pre seasons & continuity ....I am super optimistic !!

That's too logical   on Demonland we win and we win well - finals bound......we lose-we are crap

[4JacksandaKing 52]

13 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The one against Gawn was bad - the eagle player just threw his arms back and fell over.

 

30 minutes ago, Akum said:

Sorry OD, but I think it's this attitude that's the problem. I hope it's not shared by the team. I agree with those who say it's all a mental thing. When we get in front in a close game against a good team in the last quarter, it's like we've entered territory that we haven't mentally prepared for. 

We clearly ARE capable of performing well enough to beat teams in the eight. But we must make that mental shift from "we can push top sides, but we're still not good enough to beat them" to "we can beat top sides". 

We must stop thinking we're at Richmond & Collingwood level, and start realising that we're actually on a par with Norf, WCE & Adelaide - the flaky sides of the eight. In terms of performance, we are definitely their equals. We just can't convert that performance into wins.

I agree that if you perform equally or better than the other team but don't win, you get exactly nothing. But there's also a vast difference between being able to repeatedly play to the standard of the top teams, being unable to get anywhere near that level.

Like someone pointed out earlier, last qtr free kicks 12-3 put us back in our box......

 

[Willmoy1947 4,085]

I'll say now that if we do not play at least at that level of intensity and more we will not beat Carlton.

I was more concerned about the level of bias in the boundary umpiring, with bodgy and purposely misdirected throw ins and questionable line calls.

Becoming quite common place this year now for regular confusion amongst the players with Field and Boundary and Goal umpiring decisions.

I hope everyone is ready for what's going to happen with next year's coaching, because if you're a player and you're not, heaven help you.

[sue 9,102]

Some of those boundary thrown-ins were terrible, but drawing a long bow to say they were on purpose.   Not that 65metre penalty was something else.

[Demon_JB 1,385]

I loved watching Wellingham completely spud it up.

[Guest]

This is an interesting juncture we are at.
Effort is no longer the issue as far as I'm concerned. We get rolled by the inability to make the right decisions at the right times when the heat is on. If we ever make it to September, that is a bloody important skill to have.
The boys are disappointed at the loss. Now what are they going to do about it? 

On a different note, for those who believed that sacking all our veterans at the same time was genius, I direct you towards the Saints.  I still believe that we may have a better crop of youngsters coming through but there is a reason they are a better team than us. Look at blokes like Rooey, Joey, Dempster and Gilbert. While their kids are pretty good, them having that veteran leadership that knows what to do and when is the reason they are a better team. 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

So here is another thought. We are blaming our loss on bad kicking for goal largely. But this year we are in the top echelon of goal kicking accuracy. We have been due a poor game accuracy wise and maybe this is it.

Imagine if we had been kicking poorly for most of the year? Or more often than not? Or even just league average?

We could easily be on 4 or 5 wins. How would our year be looking then? Pretty ordinary. And the calls for Roos to leave quickly and handover to Goodwin would be deafening.

Arguably our accurate kicking this year has hidden some major defects.

We could also easily be on 10 wins had we not dropped very winnable games. 

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing?

[grazman 7,432]

2 hours ago, Redleg said:

Did the WCE " DESERVE" to win?

If we won, you would be saying we stole the game,  as we didn't deserve to win.

We beat them everywhere but the scoreboard, how did we not deserve to win?

I agree - certainly Adam Simpson thought they didn't 'deserve' to win.  We had the dubious honour of leading all the stats comfortably except the only one that matters - though the way some on here are reacting you'd think that for the youngest and least experienced list in the comp we are no hope of improving going forward.

Edited July 24, 2016 by grazman

[beelzebub 23,364]

On reflection yesterday was a tale of two teams. One found a way to win, the other a way to lose.

Im really tired of losing the ones we shouldn't, and didn't have to.

If the coaches are only part to blame it then falls upon the leadership on the field. 

We simply don't have enough, nor the caliber required. This has to change markedly for us to succeed in 2017 onwards.

Otherwise it's groundhog deckchairs.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,856]

55 minutes ago, mrtwister said:

If the boys are still on paleo then they could probably use some Grain-Free Gawny Granola.

Gawnola?

[grazman 7,432]

Crunchie? - sweet (suite)  Good LORD!!!

 

Edited July 24, 2016 by grazman

[Nasher 33,615]

8 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

On reflection yesterday was a tale of two teams. One found a way to win, the other a way to lose.

Im really tired of losing the ones we shouldn't, and didn't have to.

If the coaches are only part to blame it then falls upon the leadership on the field. 

We simply don't have enough, nor the caliber required. This has to change markedly for us to succeed in 2017 onwards.

Otherwise it's groundhog deckchairs.

At the end of the day, when you have two teams desperately wanting to win, only one of them can.  You'd think that if both teams went in at 100%, the better and more experienced team will win.  Hence...

You're right on all points below, it's obvious that we need to improve.  I think the majority of improvement will come from within the list though.  I know as Melbourne supporters we're well aware of the follies of a "she'll all come good when our young players play more games mate" attitude though, which is why there's always room for good players from other clubs to help us improve quicker - this is what the Melksham, Lumumba, Vince, Garletts of the world were for in the past and why we're all over Hibberd this year.

[mrtwister 652]

4 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Gawnola?

I'd buy it

[leucopogon 1,519]

We need some silky users of the ball so badly, how good would we be with Trapper, Davey, and Yze in the side.

[beelzebub 23,364]

1 minute ago, Nasher said:

At the end of the day, when you have two teams desperately wanting to win, only one of them can.

But Nasher this is very much the point...wanting to win and FINDING THAT PATHWAY to do so are often two different things. We seldom find that path when required.

[Nasher 33,615]

2 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

But Nasher this is very much the point...wanting to win and FINDING THAT PATHWAY to do so are often two different things. We seldom find that path when required.

I know, we don't *yet*, and it gives us all greys.  The question is though, are we on the right track, do you think?

[Satyriconhome 10,872]

2 minutes ago, Nasher said:

I know, we don't *yet*, and it gives us all greys.  The question is though, are we on the right track, do you think?

Nash, the words you need are ash blondes

I like your point about bringing in experienced players, previously we had 'bad luck' with draftees, the same seems to be happening with the experienced now, as in Melksham and Lumumba

[Chris 2,892]

12 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Im arguing even a numbskull should understand how to win. Surely its inherent in the dna of any player ( worth his Salt ) but so many readily find the excuse.

[censored] we're good at excuses.

It's like we as a team are always waiting on how to do thing's Are we really that thick ?

Learning to win at an elite level is one of the hardest things to do for anyone. Listen to almost any elite athlete in an elite sport and they will say things like 'it is much easier to win once you know how'. 

[old dee 23,788]

1 hour ago, Deestar9 said:

Did you think that just maybe this club with the youngest list need another preseason & some more games together....seriously when we have a loss like that I prefer to listen to the "measured" experts talk about us & also the envy from some of my football loving friends over the future potential of our list than the abject pessimism that pervades on here....as Roos said in his presser....yes we made glaring turnovers but as the players string more games together & gain confidence in each other these turnover are greatly reduced...before this season started the majority of the posters wanted more tightly contested games & no thrashings ...we have pretty much achieved this albeit with a very hard second half draw....because we have been so much more competitive we have now become super critical of our young players & have unreal expectations ....players regardless of who they are need pre seasons & continuity ....I am super optimistic !!

Excuses Excuses we still did not win. I thought at the start of the year 10 wins would be a good year, yes no thrashings is an improvement . We will not get the ten wins and and loses like this and the essendrug  are clear examples that we still have a long way to go.

I take no more pleasure out of this loss than I did last week.

It is still a bloody loss end of rant.

[old dee 23,788]

25 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

On reflection yesterday was a tale of two teams. One found a way to win, the other a way to lose.

Im really tired of losing the ones we shouldn't, and didn't have to.

If the coaches are only part to blame it then falls upon the leadership on the field. 

We simply don't have enough, nor the caliber required. This has to change markedly for us to succeed in 2017 onwards.

Otherwise it's groundhog deckchairs.

Spot on bb I am dismayed at how so many MFC supporters continue to be happy losing narrowly. 

[old dee 23,788]

9 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

Nash, the words you need are ash blondes

I like your point about bringing in experienced players, previously we had 'bad luck' with draftees, the same seems to be happening with the experienced now, as in Melksham and Lumumba

You make your own luck Saty so far we have not made anywhere enough. 

[The heart beats true 18,123]

We played all over them yesterday and didn't win.
In the context of our list it means 2 things:

1. We won't go back there with any trepidation. We know we should have won. 

2. We are leaning how hard it is to win. We aren't playing finals this year so in a lot of ways I'd rather we learn how hard this competition is. Get angry, but use it to our advantage.

 

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

3 hours ago, Redleg said:

Did the WCE " DESERVE" to win?

If we won, you would be saying we stole the game,  as we didn't deserve to win.

We beat them everywhere but the scoreboard, how did we not deserve to win?

Scoreboard doesn't lie

We Lost & to Win we have to play better...