POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 17

[stuie 7,374]

Just now, old dee said:

I take little notice of these interviews with players as by nature they have to sound positive.

I have never seen one from any player at any club that said

"you know we are not playing well at present and to be honest we have five players who are not up top this level.

Sadly I will be surprised if we end our drought of wins in WA this year."

Every time we come out with these tough statements about the opposition we get smashed. Putting WC down the week we play them is unbelievably silly.

 

[old dee 23,799]

Just now, stuie said:

Every time we come out with these tough statements about the opposition we get smashed. Putting WC down the week we play them is unbelievably silly.

 

As I keep saying stuie most footballers are not rocket scientists.

[Chris 2,892]

12 minutes ago, old dee said:

As I keep saying stuie most footballers are not rocket scientists.

Some aren't even rocket surgeons!

[jnrmac 20,104]

2 hours ago, Unleash Hell said:

I agree with everything you've said.

But there are mitigating factors to why this can't be achieved at this stage in 2016.

We are not Hawthorn who have 10 years experience at doing this. We are literally year 1 in to our 'style'.

Maybe the reasons we drop.off so dramatically are due to inexperience and inability (fatigue youth and other factors) to play our 'style' for 120 mins. Roos has consistently said this in his pressers.

And if we can't consistently get plan a correct. What makes us think automatically plannb will work snd be executed?

Sadly we don't have those great leaders like a Hodge or McVeigh  etc to execute said plans.

Really if you look at the teams that can do it they all.have great leaders and experience across the board.

I'm not saying we shouldn't aim for it i am just saying its more likey we cant execute a and b. Or the coaches have said they (players) need to execute planna before we introduxe plan b. Indont know i am only speculating 

I am.not writing off your point jnr I just think we as a group of supporters are a negative bunch  (and rightly so for a lot of reasons) and there are multiple reasons why we keep being inconsistent through out the season and games.

 

I don't buy it. 1 year into our system? Please. We are three years into our 'system' assuming you throw out everything these players have learned since grade 2 in school like; how to properly stand on the mark, how to defend a kick in; how to pick up an opponent when the opposition has the ball; how to put a tall man on the goal line when the opposition are kicking for goal from 50m out etc. You know, the basic stuff. 

The 'rebuild' was supposed to ingrain our defence and then switch focus on attack. While a cursory glance would suggest this has largely happened it's the issues of effort, skill, footy smarts like tackling properly and the basic stuff above that we are being let down in every second week. There are serial offenders and when you put up the stats from our losses its obvious who aren't pulling their weight in those games.

And as for skills there is very little evidence to say we have improved. How can we still miss handball targets frmo 2m away or handball to a man standing still. I find it infuriating.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

22 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I don't buy it. 1 year into our system? Please. We are three years into our 'system' assuming you throw out everything these players have learned since grade 2 in school like; how to properly stand on the mark, how to defend a kick in; how to pick up an opponent when the opposition has the ball; how to put a tall man on the goal line when the opposition are kicking for goal from 50m out etc. You know, the basic stuff. 

The 'rebuild' was supposed to ingrain our defence and then switch focus on attack. While a cursory glance would suggest this has largely happened it's the issues of effort, skill, footy smarts like tackling properly and the basic stuff above that we are being let down in every second week. There are serial offenders and when you put up the stats from our losses its obvious who aren't pulling their weight in those games.

And as for skills there is very little evidence to say we have improved. How can we still miss handball targets frmo 2m away or handball to a man standing still. I find it infuriating.

Again i dont think you're wrong, i think you have over simplified the situation.

Here's why i think that 

Players like Hunt and Wagner havent had 3 years in the system. They have had 1, and not even one. There are plenty others but these are 2 obvious examples.

This is the first year we have played this style... Previously under Roos we were very 1 on 1 etc now we are using more modern zone tactics  (i am no coach i cant give exact details, its only going from what i read and hear).

To say we haven't improved is subjective. While we score a lot more now due to a more offensive game plan, our skill level is still poor no doubt. So i refeence my 1st point here. If you bring in new blood (which we have) we shouldn't expect that 18 - 20 y/o get it from day 1, and they havent had 3 years preparation like you suggested 

I think we both agree thr MFC list has holes but we disagree on who how and why.

I see us as a year 2 of development project and it's going to take time. I'm not saying we can't get upset or frustrated Im sayng its not a simple quck fix like it is offten suggested on here and it's not all doom.and gloom like its also suggested.

There are multiple factor affecting performance and when we've been on we have looked really really good and exciting. 

Edited July 20, 2016 by Unleash Hell
Phone

[jnrmac 20,104]

19 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

Again i dont think you're wrong, i think you have over simplified the situation.

Here's why i think that 

Players like Hunt and Wagner havent had 3 years in the system. They have had 1, and not even one. There are plenty others but these are 2 obvious examples.

This is the first year we have played this style... Previously under Roos we were very 1 on 1 etc now we are using more modern zone tactics  (i am no coach i cant give exact details, its only going from what i read and hear).

To say we haven't improved is subjective. While we score a lot more now due to a more offensive game plan, our skill level is still poor no doubt. So i refeence my 1st point here. If you bring in new blood (which we have) we shouldn't expect that 18 - 20 y/o get it from day 1, and they havent had 3 years preparation like you suggested 

I think we both agree thr MFC list has holes but we disagree on who how and why.

I see us as a year 2 of development project and it's going to take time. I'm not saying we can't get upset or frustrated Im sayng its not a simple quck fix like it is offten suggested on here and it's not all doom.and gloom like its also suggested.

There are multiple factor affecting performance and when we've been on we have looked really really good and exciting. 

I think we are all frustrated its taking so long. It aint rocket science to play footy. And I don't think we started from scratch. there are some incontrovertible tenets of the game that we learn from primary school.  Sure we had to 're-programme' a few to 'modern footy' and some didn't make it like Garland and Dunn but the basics and skill errors still kill me. Particularly when under no pressure.

And the lack of leadership....there is simply no excuse for us not to have more of it..

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

56 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I think we are all frustrated its taking so long. It aint rocket science to play footy. And I don't think we started from scratch. there are some incontrovertible tenets of the game that we learn from primary school.  Sure we had to 're-programme' a few to 'modern footy' and some didn't make it like Garland and Dunn but the basics and skill errors still kill me. Particularly when under no pressure.

And the lack of leadership....there is simply no excuse for us not to have more of it..

Yep agreed 100% it's a huge blight on the MFC and it started a long time ago.

The players, supporters and everyone have been let down by past administrations. And it probably goes back a long long way.

That's why we're starting from so far back, we dont have the leaders on field we need to be a consistent AFL side right now or implement plan a or b.

But i feel we do have good off feild leaders now which will help build the on field consistency.

I know we get frustrated with sometimes obvious mistakes and percivied lack of development but i think it's there. I cant be 100% sure as i dont have the inside info but we have played some really good footy this year. 

Would love them to iron out the inconsistency as ive discussed in prior posts but I think it may take more time which is equally frustrating.

 

Edited July 20, 2016 by Unleash Hell

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Dees by 10 goals this week.  

Actually, make that 15.  Yeah, 15 goals.

[old dee 23,799]

Just now, Wiseblood said:

Dees by 10 goals this week.  

Actually, make that 15.  Yeah, 15 goals.

Wow can I call past have a bit of the same lunch as you Wiseblood?

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, old dee said:

Wow can I call past have a bit of the same lunch as you Wiseblood?

Of course.  We're all still splitting hairs about Sunday and it's now been 3 days since that game.  Time to move on.

Dees by 17 goals now.  I'm feeling it...

[old dee 23,799]

Just now, Wiseblood said:

Of course.  We're all still splitting hairs about Sunday and it's now been 3 days since that game.  Time to move on.

Dees by 17 goals now.  I'm feeling it...

On reflection perhaps you need a good lie down

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Just now, old dee said:

On reflection perhaps you need a good lie down

Not at all OD, no better time to be up and about.

In all seriousness, we've all had a good vent about the weekend (which everyone is entitled to).  But after a loss we end up droning on and on and on about it until there is nothing left to say... and then we invent other things to say to make up for it.  Let's look ahead to the Eagles game and the possibility of a win.  It's a small, minute possibility, but this year we have always been in the game.  What happens if we can get on top in the midfield and cut their supply forward?  What if a few things go our way and we put on some scoreboard pressure?  There is every chance we get smashed, but I still believe that THIS year, we are in every game we play in.

I dunno.  Looking at the negatives for days does nothing for me.  I have to find the positives in there somewhere.

[old dee 23,799]

5 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Not at all OD, no better time to be up and about.

In all seriousness, we've all had a good vent about the weekend (which everyone is entitled to).  But after a loss we end up droning on and on and on about it until there is nothing left to say... and then we invent other things to say to make up for it.  Let's look ahead to the Eagles game and the possibility of a win.  It's a small, minute possibility, but this year we have always been in the game.  What happens if we can get on top in the midfield and cut their supply forward?  What if a few things go our way and we put on some scoreboard pressure?  There is every chance we get smashed, but I still believe that THIS year, we are in every game we play in.

I dunno.  Looking at the negatives for days does nothing for me.  I have to find the positives in there somewhere.

Some weeks I feel way more positive than others. I actually thought we could win last Sunday.

But playing the WCE in Perth has disaster written all over it.

Mentally we are stuffed before we get to the airport. I doubt there are more than 5000 die hard demons in the Footy world who think we are even a remote chance.

I have a friend who is a Richmond supporter who is very accurate with his tipping.

His verdict WCE by 5 goals.

Positive for me will be Sunday 31st July.

 

Edited July 20, 2016 by old dee

[John Crow Batty 8,871]

49 minutes ago, old dee said:

Some weeks I feel way more positive than others. I actually thought we could win last Sunday.

But playing the WCE in Perth has disaster written all over it.

Mentally we are stuffed before we get to the airport. I doubt there are more than 5000 die hard demons in the Footy world who think we are even a remote chance.

I have a friend who is a Richmond supporter who is very accurate with his tipping.

His verdict WCE by 5 goals.

Positive for me will be Sunday 31st July.

 

I thought we would win against the saints also.

WC's average winning margin over there is 63 points this season. Our average losing margin for the last 9 consecutive games against them is 61 points. The conundrum is; if we lose by our accustomed average or slightly less does this mean we are improving? I am sure the apologists and those inclined the way of the ostrich  will seize on this blighted scenario if it occurs.

Edited July 20, 2016 by america de cali

[old dee 23,799]

16 minutes ago, america de cali said:

I thought we would win against the saints also.

WC's average winning margin over there is 63 points this season. Our average losing margin for the last 9 consecutive games against them is 61 points. The conundrum is; if we lose by our accustomed average or slightly less does this mean we are improving? I am sure the apologists and those inclined the way of the ostrich  will seize on this blighted scenario if it occurs.

I think they will win by around 5 goals 

Is that an improvement ? Not in my book.

A win is an improvement everthing else is just another loss. 

[John Crow Batty 8,871]

4 minutes ago, old dee said:

I think they will win by around 5 goals 

Is that an improvement ? Not in my book.

A win is an improvement everthing else is just another loss. 

My feelings too. Some will  hope an honourable loss will happen and argue it will be an improvement. Excuses will be found. 

Edited July 20, 2016 by america de cali

[old dee 23,799]

Just now, america de cali said:

My feelings too. Some would hope an honourable loss would occur and argue it will be an improvement. Excuses will be found. 

There are few things in footy that I hate more than " an honourable Loss" there is no such thing.

A loss is a loss is a loss.

[Chris 2,892]

36 minutes ago, old dee said:

I think they will win by around 5 goals 

Is that an improvement ? Not in my book.

A win is an improvement everthing else is just another loss. 

There is a big difference between and improvement and acceptable. 

Is losing acceptable - No

Can we lose a game and still have shown improvement - absolutely. 

[McQueen 17,865]

On ‎17‎/‎07‎/‎2016 at 9:09 PM, leucopogon said:

Yeah me and the youngster are going, now dreading it after what I saw today. Last time we got spanked by the Eagles, he wept for a solid hour after the game, nearly broke my heart. 

Re: seating, as soon as the email came through, I booked within about 5 minutes and got the front row on the second tier behind the goals. About a month afterwards, the club rang me up and told me that I couldn't have those seats as they were reserved for the cheer squad, so we got relocated 10 rows further back. I understand the club had to do this, but thought it was pretty poor that the seats were available at the time of booking. I sure hope the new stadium doesn't face into the setting sun like crappy old Subiaco. Can't wait till that shitehole is demolished.

Going now mate.

Eagles members seating.

"Let's get ready to ruuuuummmmmmble!'

[bing181 9,246]

3 hours ago, jnrmac said:

And the lack of leadership....there is simply no excuse ...

Well there is actually. We don't have enough leaders.

We're paying for the drafting mistakes of 10 years or so back.

[jnrmac 20,104]

3 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Of course.  We're all still splitting hairs about Sunday and it's now been 3 days since that game.  Time to move on.

Dees by 17 goals now.  I'm feeling it...

Errrr it is a thread titled Post Match Discussion...

[jnrmac 20,104]

54 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Well there is actually. We don't have enough leaders.

We're paying for the drafting mistakes of 10 years or so back.

Sure. Guys that should have been leaders like Garland and Dunn are in the gun for me. Had one of them turned out to be a Harry Taylor or Nick Maxwell then we wouldn't be in this situation.

[old dee 23,799]

2 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Sure. Guys that should have been leaders like Garland and Dunn are in the gun for me. Had one of them turned out to be a Harry Taylor or Nick Maxwell then we wouldn't be in this situation.

I think if you play in crap sides with worse adminisrations for too long it effects your brain  jnr.

That two have endured the worst of the worst. I feel very sorry for them.

Their experiences at the MFC would tear the best of us down.

[junk 342]

AdamFphelebed, just because I said Weeds and Hulett are not up to senior level and unlikely play senior footy in 2016 that doesn't mean that they will never pay senior footy. However being a Demon supporter is at best frustrating. I do understand that mids develop quicker than say forwards. On the subject of developmant Max King is in his 3rd year as a rookie,shouldn't he be progressing by now? May end up getting the chop. 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

'AdamFphelebed - there's you're next username AF.  It's getting longer.