POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 15

[Dante 2,562]

We made a lot of mistakes today and it seemed as if each time we did they scored a goal, that is what we have to aspire to, scoring goals from turnovers and forcing them in the first place.

The players have to stop looking for Nat Jones, they give the ball off to him when he is completely covered and Jones continually runs back in to trouble, he can kick left or right so I'm not sure why he does this.

It was a pressure game today, they tackle well and often, they don't give you time to breathe and we fumbled because of the pressure, we are not ready for finals, this was just a taste and will be an eye opener for some of the younger players. Frost will have to learn to be more one touch, he missed the ball a few times today, his ground play is a fair way off at the moment. Hogan has to move the ball quicker when he gets it upfield, he seems to miss available options and spends forever looking for something when all are subsequently covered.

TommyMac does some really good things but he just cannot seem to get the ball, by foot, to one of his team mates when he's under no pressure and his team mate is in the clear. At one point tonight he had a mark in the back line and I said to a guy in front of me, hope he realises that we are the team in the dark jumpers, he proceeded to kick it directly to an unopposed Crows player. How could you take that in to a Final match.

We will get better and next year we will have another pre season in to the younger players and a bit better understanding of the game plan and players will better understand when to take the game on and when not too.

On the mater of Dawes I didn't even know he was playing for most of the match, it appeared he was invisible and had hardly any impact on the game.

[Deespicable 2,538]

I was really impressed with today's game - even though we lost - as there were just so many positives.

Hunt is genuinely changing the way we are rated by others - we were the slowest side, not now. He reminds me of a mix between Sean Wight and KB.

We may have unearthed another backman in Harmes, Stretch is really starting to make position like Kade Simpson - did anyone spot that he unleashed a 45m left foot pass to Jack Watts down the win in the last? Our two project talls - Frosty and Oscar - had their moments and are looking more and more comfortable.

The decision to go with our quickest line-up adding Matt Jones, Harmes and Garlett and retaining Kennedy and Vanders was the right one, but we simply weren't quick enough for the Crows defence. They will seriously do some damage come finals.

But the one thing that shocked me was deciding against having a fourth tall down back, which meant that every now and then Watts and Hoges would be forced to drop back to help cover their four dangerous tall forwards - and that doesn't include Eddie. The other major problem with that is that it left Dawes and Kennedy alone up forward trying to mark an outlet - which was never going to be easy when you are up against the best defender in the league outside of Rance inn Talia, although Kennedy's courage was amazing. 

With Wagner out, why we didn't bring in Garland for this game was amazing as it meant that we kept getting caught out by the wrong match up and they have the best seven-man forward line in the league which includes two monsters, two quality mobile talls, Eddie, a pressure king in Douglas and when not on a wing - one of the quickest players in the game in Cameron. Why Hunt wasn't on Cameron and Jetta on Betts is beyond me?

So many players contributed majorly, but we did have five players way down on their usual level and that hurt.

The five who really struggled were;

Petracca (he was too slow against Smith and Laird and caught out of position way too often - particularly at kick ins. He should have been sent on to the ball to get him going but alas may now need a week off to find greater urgency and work on his fitness).

Tyson (Just couldn't impact the clearances and got caught out not moving it on quickly enough after his baulks - the Crows are seriously quick and determined).

Matt Jones (I'm sorry but I have made it clear on my view on him before. He's not called Matt Mediocre Jones for nothing. He actually was handy in the first half but went missing in the second. The key assessments of his game were - no tackles, no ability to stop Cameron's run when on him although he seemed to have Crouch for a fair bit of the game as well and he only had one score contribution - a nice pass to Nat Jones. Sure he has pace, but he doesn't use it and if we are going to play a 28-year-old, I'd rather Jack Grimes any time.)

Tom Bugg (Everyone picks on Grimes and Trenners lack of pace, but this guy is no quicker. Yes we all know he can tackle, but against Adelaide he couldn't get near them to lay one. I'm afraid the honeymoon is over and a week in the VFL beckons. Being good mates with Hoges and Wattsy only gets you so far).

Dawes (I won't go into it, as everybody who was there knows what happened. Talia though is a formidable opponent). My own view is that we need to consider sending T-0Mac to CHF again next week as we have struggled all year in that role. That means bringing in Garland to cover the bigs with Oscar and Frosty).

A few others were a bit down, including Viney (except for a hot second term) and Vince (whose reliable foot was a little off at times). Why he didn't play on Sloane, who won the first four clearances is one for the coaches to explain?  

 

 

 

 

 

[Deestroy All 14,261]

3 hours ago, Deestroy All said:

 

Where the [censored] is Pedo?

 

Found him.

[samcantstandya 913]

1 hour ago, gOLLy said:

N. Jones disposal is B-grade grade. Has been for a long time.

Trouble is we have 2 many who have crud kicking skills.

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,089]

24 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Astonished that people are unhappy with that.

Agreed, I thought it was a very entertaining game of footy despite the horrendous turnovers from BOTH teams, not just our boys! 

The start of both the 1st n 3rd killed us. Forward entry in the first in particular was poor, we had many chances to even be in front at qtr time but failed to capitalise.

Hunt is becoming a cult hero, one of the more exciting players in the comp....his rise is phenomenal. Really impressed with Stretch as well, come on a lot quicker than I anticipated!

Agree on all summations of Dawes, he looked injured or disinterested, possibly both! 

Crows have buried some far more fancied opposition than us recently, we took it right up to them and a little more polish we could have won the game.

[Jaded No More 57,627]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

For the love of God Roosy just put us Melbourne supporters out of our misery and dropped Dawes and be done with him. Seriously even Lynden Dunn up forward would be a much better option if Pedo isn't ready.

 

Said the same thing during the game.

Dunn started his career as a forward. Yes he isn't a great player, he won't be a world beater, but for god's sake at least he can take a mark, and he isn't slower than Dawes and his rucking ability is probably about as good (Dawes rucked twice today, and gave away 1 free kick- great success!).

We have to find a replacement for Dawes, because seriously he is a liability. He isn't why we lost today, but by god he is a big reason and one that should be easier to replace that Tom McDonald's brain.

[Demon Dynasty 15,200]

55 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Nah usually after the game i take a deep breath but this is up there with the WB game where we could seriously smell a win but completely butchered our chances and they beat us with cheap turnover goals. 

I get even more annoyed when its our senior players Vince Tmac Dawes Bugg and Nath Jones who are the ones making simple basic skill errors costing us goals. And that happened too much today.

 

AFL average DE% is approx 73% (% probably slightly less for those playing more in mid field & slightly higher down back etc). Our bottom 5 today ....

1. Frost 40% (Season Ave 58.46% / Team Ranking 33rd out of 33)

2. Dawes 44.4% (59.98% / 32nd)

3. N Jones 48.5% (68.54% / 24th)

4. Vince 52.9% (68.4% / 25th)

5. Omac 53.3% (69.13% / 22nd)

 

We had five players with 4 clangers a piece at the top....

Vanders, Tracc, Hoges, Vince & Dawes

Stats: courtesy of Footywire

[waynewussell 4,081]

Nat Jones set shots were beautiful today... at least the ones he snagged! Take a look at all games this 'bye' round. Some respected footballers were very ordinary in their set shots. Jones is scragged by opposition teams for 120 minutes each week. He still comes up with 30 + posies and snags goals that have to be snagged. Stop living your (football) lives through the stat sheet or you will end up like Kingy!

[Demon Dynasty 15,200]

11 minutes ago, waynewussell said:

Nat Jones set shots were beautiful today... at least the ones he snagged! Take a look at all games this 'bye' round. Some respected footballers were very ordinary in their set shots. Jones is scragged by opposition teams for 120 minutes each week. He still comes up with 30 + posies and snags goals that have to be snagged. Stop living your (football) lives through the stat sheet or you will end up like Kingy!

Correct. Some of his errors and turnovers were pretty ordinary but IMO his overall output tended to make up for the blunders and would probably see him in the top 5 - 8 players today (roughly). Stats should only be used as a rough guide (after the event ie.,witnessing/watching the game).

Having said that he still had a pretty off day skill wise compared to usual. Wasn't alone. He only had 2 shots so not sure that's a good guide but i hear ya.

Edited July 3, 2016 by Rusty Nails

[titan_uranus 22,219]

3 hours ago, Juicebox said:

All of a sudden, none of our wins this year seem that impressive. A couple of our losses have been very ordinary. One loss in particular was a disgrace...

Despite the talent and potential on the list, this year is actually shaping up to be quite ordinary. We haven't done anything special. We blew it today. Adelaide were miles off their best and we couldn't get the job done. 

Finals? Get stuffed! Still plenty of work to do.

This is the kind of circular dumb logic I can't stand.

Adelaide was "miles off their best" because we got close to them? No. Adelaide played their normal game. When they made mistakes it was largely because we did the right things in pressuring them.

2 hours ago, SaberFang said:

6 wins is still 6 wins, even if we've improved our offence (which was embarrassingly below par last season -- if anything we've just got it up to mid-tier AFL standard now).

We still aren't pinching tight wins or wins against genuine opponents, even if we're well and truly still in the game at the final change (which makes the eventual capitulation all the more frustrating).

You need to find another outlet for your pessimism. We're top 8 for points for, having scored more this year than Sydney and the Dogs.

And why are "pinching tight wins" the benchmark for a good side? I guarantee if that is what we were doing you'd be criticising us for being mediocre.

1 hour ago, Dante said:

On the mater of Dawes I didn't even know he was playing for most of the match, it appeared he was invisible and had hardly any impact on the game.

Really? I can't imagine how you didn't notice him. He was so incredibly bad every time he went near it. I felt the crowd began groaning when he tried marking it.

[Older demon 2,166]

As mentioned earlier, Weideman is a skinny kid and the club hopes to put 7 kg's at least on him this year. Macca rates him as the best of the young group and is willing to tell that to anyone who he has a chat with.

Peterson was listed as injured on the website with a shoulder injury, so no surprise he didn't play this weekend

I hope Hunt get the rising star nomination this week. His pace is blistering and I hope we look back at today as his breakout game.

I know we made lots of errors and turnovers today but I think you will find that the Crows made some seriously bad turnovers too that resulted in goals. The game is soon quick you don't get a second chance.

[Binmans PA 25,892]

3 hours ago, jnrmac said:

I heard the ump say that Bernie ran through the mark and that was not allowed.. Never knew that I have to say. Pretty sure its not even a rule.

Well, it is a rule. How so many people go to the footy and lack a basic understanding of the rules is beyond me.

Also, Bernie missed that goal anyway and should have known better than to run through the mark.

This isn't an attack on you necessarily jnr, but so many of the people in the members that I was sitting around today just had absolutely no idea.

Edited July 3, 2016 by AdamPleb

[rjay 23,851]

6 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Have to agree re: Dawes.  Didn't give us enough today.  I do like for our structure as he knows where to lead and he takes one of their key defenders away from Jesse, but he needs to do more in everything else.  Just didn't do that today.  The bit of play that summed his day up was when he laid a good tackle, got the free and then proceeded to kick it backwards and have that kick fall short, resulting in a turnover.  Not good enough.

Are Hulett or Weideman ready?  Pedo didn't look like he played at Casey today so I can't see him coming in.  Interesting decision ahead this week.

He really doesn't 'Wiseblood'....he never has. Opposition defenders know he is not a danger and have always let him go and pushed back to Hogan who is continually double or triple teamed.

Hullet is probably more ready but not yet if that makes sense. For mine I would take an extra small/medium in, lower the eyes and create a bit more movement in the forward half.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

11 minutes ago, rjay said:

He really doesn't 'Wiseblood'....he never has. Opposition defenders know he is not a danger and have always let him go and pushed back to Hogan who is continually double or triple teamed.

Hullet is probably more ready but not yet if that makes sense. For mine I would take an extra small/medium in, lower the eyes and create a bit more movement in the forward half.

Exactly. Everyone seems to think we need 3 talls but given we don't have a Jenkins-type at hand we should try something else. Go smaller for a few games or maybe be crazy enough to play Spencer with Gawn again. Either way putrid performances like that from Dawes shouldn't be accepted.

 

[Ricky P 757]

If we play as well as we did today against Freo, we'll batter them.

[Ethan Tremblay 28,288]

3 hours ago, Ricky P said:

If we play as well as we did today against Freo, we'll batter them.

I suppose that depends also on how Freo play. I work with a heap of Freo supporters, losing next weeks game isn't an option. 

[Dr. Gonzo 22,396]

The Crows are a pretty good team and we took it up to them. They've got more class which showed out in the end. The game was there for the taking but we didn't have that little bit extra to snatch it. Next year we'll be winning these games.

Dawes was terrible especially early. We couldve used Oliver around the contests today especially in the first and third. 

[Dr. Gonzo 22,396]

12 hours ago, chook fowler said:

So impressed with Watts. He has become a really consistent player with sublime skills.

Watts was brilliant yesterday and had had a great season to date. I had him out the door last year (and the year before) but to his credit he has really turned it around and it's started to click. Good on him he deserves to have a successful career and has proved the doubters wrong. He needs to continue it for the rest of the season and into next year now 

[grazman 6,414]

8 hours ago, Jaded said:

 

We have to find a replacement for Dawes, because seriously he is a liability. 

Weideman and Hulett and they're not ready.  Dunn btw is injured.

[mdemonski2 403]

1 hour ago, grazman said:

Weideman and Hulett and they're not ready.  Dunn btw is injured.

Don't think weed or hullett are ready from what I've seen in vfl either.

dunn not injured though. He played against Richmond in vfl yesterday 

[mdemonski2 403]

7 hours ago, Je Roos Salem said:

Exactly. Everyone seems to think we need 3 talls but given we don't have a Jenkins-type at hand we should try something else. Go smaller for a few games or maybe be crazy enough to play Spencer with Gawn again. Either way putrid performances like that from Dawes shouldn't be accepted.

 

not a bad thought.

Spencer up for Dawes. Get spencer to ruck most of the game and leave Max up forward to clunk a few.

cant be worse than watching bucket hands Dawes get nowhere near it.

not much point putting hullet or weed up

yet if they're not ready.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pates 9,536]

I tipped Melbourne, with a fair degree of optimism, but clearly we are not at "that" level yet. The frustrating part about this is that it has dragged us back to the pack with the likes of Richmond, Collingwood, Carlton, and St Kilda (that Essendon loss with be the loss that never stops haunting us). 

The Fremantle game this week has just become more important, they have been (mostly) cr@p all year and we have to get the job done against them. To get to the magic target (or at least my target) of 10 wins this is one that needs to go in the can.

But we have some truly terrible thinkers in our backline, so that needs to be something that is rectified over the off season. I am unsure whether Melksham is one that will help in that department but the second quarter (sadly the only quarter I actually got to see) we gifted them almost every goal they got through stupid errors or poor composure COMING OUT of defence. It's bad enough that we miss out on the opportunity to score at our end but we turn it into easy scoring chances for them. 

[stuie 7,374]

9 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

AFL average DE% is approx 73% (% probably slightly less for those playing more in mid field & slightly higher down back etc). Our bottom 5 today ....

1. Frost 40% (Season Ave 58.46% / Team Ranking 33rd out of 33)

2. Dawes 44.4% (59.98% / 32nd)

3. N Jones 48.5% (68.54% / 24th)

4. Vince 52.9% (68.4% / 25th)

5. Omac 53.3% (69.13% / 22nd)

 

We had five players with 4 clangers a piece at the top....

Vanders, Tracc, Hoges, Vince & Dawes

Stats: courtesy of Footywire

Disposal efficiency is the most useless stat in the game. Have a look up of how it's determined and then you'll never bother quoting it again.

 

[Dr. Gonzo 22,396]

14 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

It's not the wins in my opinion - it's the competitive games against better opposition, and the ability to take the game on in spurts and score heavily.

No doubt we have improved.

Yep our percentage is an indicator of that.

[Nasher 33,047]

 

12 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yep our percentage is an indicator of that.

Honestly, I just scroll past any post that opens with "we haven't improved...".  It's just such a daft analysis that it's not even worth digesting, let alone wasting time arguing against.