Should we be so disappointed?

[ArtificialWisdom 3,844]

Ok so I have left it a while to try and reflect with a little less emotion... So here's my take away from the weekend, what I think was a reflection on our year so far:

We are a step off the pace, we all know it, but when we win we would like to think otherwise. I'm guilty of being swept up in all the excitement of easybeat successes, but I have also tried to keep a level headed look at where we are at. We were never ever, ever going to play finals, this is a fact I have tried to keep in my head they whole time. Although even now I have a thought "well if we can just beat 2 big teams and Adelaide loses 1 or 2 maybe we can kind of just make it" But then I think about Saturday and reality sets in. 

It all seems like doom and gloom after that lost but I dont think it is that bad. We are 5-5 after 10 weeks... And although we had our chances to win more games North and Essendon in particular, 5-5 is about where I always thought we would be. 50% wins is the definition of inconsistant and I guess we should have all seen that coming. We have built a list that is young excitable and capable of beating anyone on its day. But thats the thing, we can only seem to win on our day. 

On Saturday we played in patches as we have all year. Most games we have taken our chances whenever we have had them. We lead the competition in scoring accuracy and Saturday was the first time we were below 50% infront of goal. Up to that point we were the only side yet to dish up a sub 50 porformance. It was always coming, it sucks that it was Saturday but nobody is that accurate that forever. Our ability to kick straight has helped keep us in games. Round 1 it basicly secured us an unlikely win. Unfortunatly we were unable to capatalise on our chances Saturday and it cost is dearly. -5 scoreing shots and 45 point loss, thats simply not good enough.

The Diamond Defence... Certainly has its critics right now, and for good reason it can look damn ugly when it goes wrong. That being said I think abandoning it right now is dangerous. The point of the diamond is simple. If we can draw even on the scoring shots, we can back ourselves to kick a winning score (we are 4-1 when we draw even). So while it has been frustrating, over the course of 10 weeks we are -3 in scoring shots. That means every game we average giving 0.3 scoring shots more to the opposition... that isnt that bad for a middle tier team!! Yes, when we have been exposed we have conceded quickly and heavily but I dont think the scores we have gotten as a result have been credited enough. All we need to do is recapture our ability to shut the game down. That is the only piece of the game plan that we are missing!

If, in the second half of the year, we can learn how to shut a game down while still in the diamond structure we will have achieved everything Roos set out to do nearly 3 years ago. We lacked leaders on Saturday. Some long overdue selection might help with that, we will have to see. We needed cool heads to prevent the panic that sunk in when Port got a run on. Whenever a team kicks 2/3 goals on the trot we need to flick the defencive switch and shut it down! We showed we could do it last year, so I have faith that given time they will learn to do it again. This structure makes it hard and its very aggressive but fortune favours the brave.

We have been too late to the party every time there is a new gameplan. Copying Geelong in 2010, then copying Collingwood in 2012 then copying Sydney in 2014. 3 years, 2 years and 2 years late respectivly. Now we have decided rather than being like everyone else and copy Hawthorn to the letter, we will go our way with our list and good on 'em! If we copy hawthorn now then by the time we get it right the game will have changed again. The fact is we are 10 games into a new gameplan with a 50% success rate. Its been ugly at times but beautiful at others. 

We are nothing more than a confidence side right now. I think thats all we need to be this year. We need to get that bully tag, it is a tag I have dreamt of for years. I know it has negative conatations but it is a stepping stone to success. 3 stages to a flag, Beat those below, Beat those around and beat those above. We are barely secure at stage one and people are talking finals, we need to secure that spot then we can talk about how we can pinch a couple of wins and play finals.

The next few games are big, but we need to be understanding. We all penciled this week in as a loss, and no matter what happens we need to remember that. Hawthorn should pants us, even based on our best form they are too good. All I want to see is effort and structure. We could lose 3 of the next 4 and still have a positive month such is the run we face. Forget finals dreams, forget being the fairy tale story of 2016 thats not us. Look for glimpses, look for effort, look for structure. It's where we are, like it or not. Keep scoring, give ourselves excitement and give ourselves a chance. But dont expect instant success otherwise you're probably not gonna deal well with whats coming.

It's god awful frustrating and I wish we could get it faster but I still have faith, the path feels right, and the tunnel is getting brighter. Saturday was ugly, but it does not mean we are going nowhere. It just means we arn't there yet. A reality I think we all know, when we take an objective look.

When it all comes down to it. Can we be disapointed about the weekend? Hell yes! Is it right to be dissapointed by the year so far? I'm not so sure.

Holy [censored] I wrote alot more than I planned. If you actully read it all my hat goes off to you. 

[Older demon 2,166]

Agree and I know it has been said before I think the biggest errors have been at selection.

Take this week. The half back line was Hunt, O. Mac, and Wagner.  ANB & Newton to hold the midfield with Harmes and Petracca running around the forward line. So in order that is Hunt 7, Oscar 5 & Wagner 8 games across half back. 13 & 17 for ANB and Newton. Harmes a veteran of 18, Petracca 5 and Billy Stretch is in there with 16. There is some serious talent in the group but not a lot of match hardened warriors, in fact it is a credit that they have performed so well thus far, but clearly moving into the second part of the season as they tire we need some muscle and hard bodies.

I would love to know the match committee thinking behind team selection right now. A lone ruckman, a bunch of kids (8 players who haven't played 20 games yet) means a lot falls on the senior group

Van den berg, Grimes, Trenners, Dawes, Lumumba, Dunne, Pederson, Matt Jones and Salem represent a much harder bunch albeit not as promising. You could even add Melksham when he is available next year. Roos promised changes last week of a 6 day break, that didn't happen and he declared they didn't want to change a winning team. Well this week opens up all sorts of possibilities but as Casey didn't play, there is still question on the match fitness of the mature group.

I would hope, given Roos wants competitors that we will see a much different team in the second half of the season

[Ethan Tremblay 28,281]

Yes.

[ArtificialWisdom 3,844]

7 minutes ago, Older demon said:

Agree and I know it has been said before I think the biggest errors have been at selection.

Take this week. The half back line was Hunt, O. Mac, and Wagner.  ANB & Newton to hold the midfield with Harmes and Petracca running around the forward line. So in order that is Hunt 7, Oscar 5 & Wagner 8 games across half back. 13 & 17 for ANB and Newton. Harmes a veteran of 18, Petracca 5 and Billy Stretch is in there with 16. There is some serious talent in the group but not a lot of match hardened warriors, in fact it is a credit that they have performed so well thus far, but clearly moving into the second part of the season as they tire we need some muscle and hard bodies.

I would love to know the match committee thinking behind team selection right now. A lone ruckman, a bunch of kids (8 players who haven't played 20 games yet) means a lot falls on the senior group

Van den berg, Grimes, Trenners, Dawes, Lumumba, Dunn, Pederson, Matt Jones and Salem represent a much harder bunch albeit not as promising. You could even add Melksham when he is available next year. Roos promised changes last week of a 6 day break, that didn't happen and he declared they didn't want to change a winning team. Well this week opens up all sorts of possibilities but as Casey didn't play, there is still question on the match fitness of the mature group.

I would hope, given Roos wants competitors that we will see a much different team in the second half of the season

I think those 3 in this week would be the seniority we need, 1 more in each part of the ground. Trenners might be, but the other 2 are definitely not part of the long term future, but they could and probably should be used now. Bring in Grimes if Viney gets rubbed out but there is no sense in dropping all the kids just because their kids. They need exposure just with a few more senior blokes around to protect them.

TMac, Dunn, Jetta, Jones, Vince, Gawn, Trenners, Viney/Grimes, Dawes, Watts, Garlett. 11 Seasoned players in a team of 22, gives us plenty of room for youngsters but also gives us the experience we lacked so much. 

[hemingway 7,583]

With greater expectations comes greater disappointment.  And this comes week by week depending on the result. The true measure or assessment will be made at season end.

[Gorgoroth 12,305]

Yes, we didnt just lose. We got belted and didnt give a decent effort. 

We have been poor in a half v suns, not great against Lions but we won so it was glossed over. 

Teams have figured out this diamond and we cannot or will not change when is not working. Mid game weer should be able to change if required. Then reset.

[In Harmes Way 7,477]

Our best this year is certainly better than last year - lets see over the next 3 weeks whether our worst has also improved. 

[1 red eye 1 blue eye 754]

They mentioned on the telecast that we had the highest scores against from inside the oppo's 30m. We managed to take it one step further and conceded multiple goals from the point kick out, surely that is unforgivable. Our defending seems to be getting worse as the season progresses, intensity is trailing off for longer periods in the game. We have 12 tough weeks ahead, teams with skill will bring physicality and niggle and then simply foot pass around the diamond. I personally am disappointed, our wins are against teams we beat last year which has the win/loss looking OK but I don't think we have the strength or wherewithal to combat what is coming. Prove me wrong Dees.

[jnrmac 18,913]

Have said it for a while but our defence is a mess. We haven't fixed it. The players either can't do what they are supposed to do or they haven't bought into it.

Interesting that Beveridge can get his team playing a system in a summer, so can Brendan Bolton, so can Alan Richardson. We struggle after 3 years.

Under our 'plan' you have to win contested ball, deliver to a team mate and have run and spread. It breaks down when we don't win the contest. The defensive system looks a shambles when it doesn't work as can be readily seen in our poor losses. When guys like Jetta are continually having to run back and defend against the likes of Reiwoldt etc something is very wrong.

We are short on talent in our back half. The McDonalds have endeavour but poor skills, Wagner does a lot of good things but also a lot of bad, Hunt tries hard and is growing, Garland is past it for me, Dunn seems to not be playing to instructions hence he is not getting a game, Salem has skills but has been shown up in a lot of one-on-one contests. Too much is being left to too few. We are short in the footy smarts department in our defence and it will be found out in the next 4 weeks 

[ArtificialWisdom 3,844]

5 minutes ago, 1 red eye 1 blue eye said:

They mentioned on the telecast that we had the highest scores against from inside the oppo's 30m. We managed to take it one step further and conceded multiple goals from the point kick out, surely that is unforgivable. Our defending seems to be getting worse as the season progresses, intensity is trailing off for longer periods in the game. We have 12 tough weeks ahead, teams with skill will bring physicality and niggle and then simply foot pass around the diamond. I personally am disappointed, our wins are against teams we beat last year which has the win/loss looking OK but I don't think we have the strength or wherewithal to combat what is coming. Prove me wrong Dees.

Scoring Shots Differential:
Rd 1:      -8     W
Rd 2:      -8     L
Rd 3:       0     L
Rd 4:       0     W
Rd 5:     +3     W
Rd 6:    -14     L
Rd 7:     23     W
Rd 8:     -7     L
Rd 9:    13     W
Rd 10:   -5     L

It is wildly inconsistant since round 5 and it has been cut through against better teams. But interestingly our last 2 losses have been our 2 lowest deficits... That was against 2 of the best 3 teams we have played. St Kilda was an absoloute disaster. But the weekend was only a blowout because we dsidnt take our own chances, we had them, plenty of them. If we bring enough pressure I think we will find the diamond is more effective than it was on the weekend.  Round 8 is the only game that i think we brought the right amount of pressue for 4 qtrs and didnt get the desired differential. That was against the Dogs who are looking to be no pretender. All other failures were a result of poor upfield pressure. Bring the pressure, make them earn it and win, lose or draw i will be content this weekend no matter how hawks score their goals.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,390]

38 minutes ago, Gorgoroth said:

Yes, we didnt just lose. We got belted and didnt give a decent effort. 

We have been poor in a half v suns, not great against Lions but we won so it was glossed over. 

Teams have figured out this diamond and we cannot or will not change when is not working. Mid game weer should be able to change if required. Then reset.

Supporters latching on to this "diamond defense" idea need to think a bit more analytically - not singling you out but just using this as an example. The diamond defense is implemented at centre bounces. I'd have to watch the game again to be sure but I didn't feel this was our problem on the weekend. The biggest glaring problem was our inability to stop lightning fast transition from a kick-in in our forward line going straight down the other end. Combined with too many missed opportunities in front of goal, playing from behind, our inability to take advantage of Gawn's dominance, our inability to crumb contested marks and our over-possession/poor disposal it was a recipe for disaster. Fix up our disposal/decision making and our accuracy in front of goal and we go close to winning (we were only really blown out in the last 10 minutes remember). I don't think any of this falls onto the "diamond defense".

[Dr. Gonzo 22,390]

25 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

Have said it for a while but our defence is a mess. We haven't fixed it. The players either can't do what they are supposed to do or they haven't bought into it.

Interesting that Beveridge can get his team playing a system in a summer, so can Brendan Bolton, so can Alan Richardson. We struggle after 3 years.

More than half our team weren't playing senior footy or at MFC 3 years ago. It's a different team and to try and measure it against that is a misnomer.

[praha 10,267]

I wasn't surprised by the loss, but I was disappointment. It's not like we lost through lack of effort. You can certainly tell that they just had more experience and big bodies. I reckon Carlton will give us a similar touch-up this year when we meet them.

Some teams we just don't match up well with at this point.

[Fat Tony 4,349]

34 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Scoring Shots Differential:
Rd 1:      -8     W
Rd 2:      -8     L
Rd 3:       0     L
Rd 4:       0     W
Rd 5:     +3     W
Rd 6:    -14     L
Rd 7:     23     W
Rd 8:     -7     L
Rd 9:    13     W
Rd 10:   -5     L

It is wildly inconsistant since round 5 and it has been cut through against better teams. But interestingly our last 2 losses have been our 2 lowest deficits... That was against 2 of the best 3 teams we have played. St Kilda was an absoloute disaster. But the weekend was only a blowout because we dsidnt take our own chances, we had them, plenty of them. If we bring enough pressure I think we will find the diamond is more effective than it was on the weekend.  Round 8 is the only game that i think we brought the right amount of pressue for 4 qtrs and didnt get the desired differential. That was against the Dogs who are looking to be no pretender. All other failures were a result of poor upfield pressure. Bring the pressure, make them earn it and win, lose or draw i will be content this weekend no matter how hawks score their goals.

This is a good analysis but it fails to point out the high percentage of the opposition's scoring shots which have been walk in goals. We are defending way too high up the ground.

[ArtificialWisdom 3,844]

1 minute ago, Fat Tony said:

This is a good analysis but it fails to point out the high percentage of the opposition's scoring shots which have been walk in goals. We are defending way too high up the ground.

Yeah this is true. Maybe 1 or 2 further back, but being high causes so many more turnovers. being back just allows us to kill contests making it difficult to rebound quickly and effectivly. Like Roos said there is a balance and we are tilted to hard to attack and are stumbling because of it. I just dont want them to fall back too much, otherwise suddenly the goals will dry up. 

[Bitter but optimistic 21,150]

2 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Yes.

Agreed.

[Maldonboy38 5,807]

Selection remains the key issue, directly followed by list mangement.

Our defence struggles when our midfield does not respond qiuckly enough and switch into defensive structures and patterns. And having a bunch of really inexperienced, body-light players like Omac, Petracca, Stretch, ANB, Wagner, Hunt etc... filling our defence means they can't cope without the midfield defending well. 

We need to use our mature but limited players in association with putting games into the young blokes. Dawes, Grimes, Dunn, Garland and maybe Trenners etc..  need to be in the team for the remainder of 2016, just not all in the same games. 

I am match day disappointed, but not as much as I usually am because the Dees look like being something special when Petracca, Hunt, Wagner, Oliver, Brayshaw Weideman get 50 games into their careers. I am more disappointed and frustrated with ongoing selection stuff ups. 

[Sir Why You Little 34,405]

Right now we have NO DEFENCE

That is a huge worry. In 12 weeks Roos walks

 

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,089]

When you look at how committed and improved Carlton are right now, yes we have every reason to be disappointed with the Port game.

Especially so when you can still add the coaches box and selection as to the reasons we failed miserably in a game which we could have potentially been in the 8 if other results went our way.

[beelzebub 22,225]

To the author of the OP...and anyone who thinks likewise

I'll throw a question back at you 

The opposite of disappointed is satisfied.

Should we be satisfied ? Im not. Far from it

[Lord Travis 10,135]

I'm disappointed we dropped some games against lower teams simply because we didn't show up. We've lost to 3 teams below us, and only beaten 1 above us. The only team we beat above us was GWS before they found form, and we were lucky to win that match at all. 
The second half of the draw has us playing some top 8 teams and playing some lower teams again who have already beaten us. We will struggle to beat the Pies on form and without Viney playing too. The worry is we may not win many more games from here if our forms tapers off like the past two years. And those wins will come against sides like Carlton, who are out-performing us at present, and Port who just beat us! It would be disappointing to only win one or two more matches than last year.
For all the progress we appear to have made, we might wind up not much better in terms of wins and Roos is gone. Talk of finals was premature, but it still doesn't excuse losing to teams like Essendon and St Kilda purely through poor work-rate. 

Realistically it is going to get harder from here, and we should be 7-3 now. That's what disappoints me.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Lord Travis

[Deecisive 1,651]

While few of us expected we would play finals football this year, most of us expect the team that is put on the field to put in a solid performance. We had a lot of our players including some of our more experienced players who just did not turn up, or who played well below the standard expected.  When I look at teams like St Kilda and Carlton both who were expected to be basket cases I see greater consistency and effort than I see in our players. Again this was a game that earlier in the week were favorites to win, yet again we were thrashed. These are supposed to be professional footballers, professionals some paid hundreds of thousands and they cannot hit a team mate 25 meters away with a pass, who fail to be accountable for their man, and who could not tackle to save their career. Disgusted with the effort.  Players need to be sent back to the VFL and bring others who are prepared to try.

[Demonsone 1,593]

We need perspective also ... Comparing the 2 teams Port had ave of 47 vs 30 games lowest in the afl that's around 2 more seasons of experience .. We continue to lack exp players & the up & down results are to be expected.

The positives are when we are winning this year we look great & you can see improvement will continue 

 

Edited May 30, 2016 by Hogan2014

[Josh 1,420]

6 hours ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

Agreed.

I concur

[Monocology 1,107]

We've earnt the right & nobody can take that away from us - but no, we shouldn't be so disappointed especially when looking at mean age/games (save maybe one particular loss at G).

Thought we'd been lucky (rarity) with short injury list till now.

Have a horrible feeling I'll be drinking more at games going forward.