We're kidding ourselves!

[Dr. Gonzo 22,399]

2 hours ago, iv'a worn smith said:

No doubt your observations are on the money HBT, but as Dees supporters, we have seen it all too often, not to be cynical.  It is somewhat of a habit for us

Rightly so with whats gone before but it doesn't exactly create a healthy environment for the club when we go from worldbeaters to no-hopers and back again every week .

[Dr. Gonzo 22,399]

31 minutes ago, Unleash Hell said:

Talk about throw the baby out with the bathwater kind of stuff happening here.

Not sure whos kidding who in this thread, 

At rd 10 we're 5 & 5 with a couple tough losses and a couple games we could have easily won.

Beats the last few years ... and before anyone gets their knickers in a knot I think 2016 yr is another building block, Im not getting carried away with media hype

Exactly - before the season I thought we'd be in the group of teams 7-12/13 an outside chance for finals but more likely to just miss out after a competitive season. That seems to be what we're on track for. The next month will be tough especially without Viney but let's see how we stand at the end of the season before tearing the house down in angst.

[Gator 16,891]

3 hours ago, stuie said:

There is, but they're kids and weren't playing on the weekend.

It's the mature bodies and leaders that are letting us down and letting it slip in this regard.

 

As good as they are first and second year players won't provide a "hard edge".  But the sooner Oliver, Brayshaw, Trengove, vandenBerg and Salem are back the better. 

[chook fowler 18,174]

Can't wait for Travis Cloke to resurrect his career against us on the Queens Birthday.

[Gunna’s 1,776]

When I read the name of the thread I thought it was referring to the way selection committee went into the game. We needed either Dawes Frost or Spencer (with Gawn resting in forward line and Johan playing up the ground) to help as a link up player. There were miss matches all over the park, and if it isn't fixed this week we will see another L with a big drop in percentage.

Would like to see some experience come back in, Dunn Lumumba Dawes/Pedersen and Spencer (think Gawn needs a chop out, plus he can take a contested mark). 

[titan_uranus 22,220]

9 hours ago, ProDee said:

There's been a bit of discussion about Carlton on this thread.  It's worth noting a couple of things about their list as they entered the weekend's game (injuries during the game aside).

They had 4 former pick 1's, two former pick 2's, a pick 3 and two pick 10's.  All up they had 9 former top 10 picks and 11 within the top 13.  Half of their team was drafted within the top 13 of the National Draft.  To put that in perspective we had 6 players from Saturday drafted within the top 13; and that includes both Hogan and Viney.

Our average age was 23.5 months - there's 25.11 months and our games experience average was 63.9 compared to 98.4.  Those numbers present a huge disparity.

Bolton is doing a great job, but their experience and top end talent is better than what is being reported.  

They were the 5th oldest team on the weekend and even older than the geriatrics from Fremantle.

The core of their good players were playing finals in 2009-2011 and 2013.

Everyone (media and fans) misjudged their list. I think Malthouse's terrible coaching was underestimated. He took a list that was good (not great, but good enough to be playing finals) and wrecked it, basically.

Bolton's taken over a list that, at its heart, has leadership and talent. He's exceeded expectations but I think, reflecting on their list, that's because those expectations were incorrectly too low (as opposed to Bolton working some sort of miracle).

None of this matters, of course, to those who simply look around them when Melbourne loses and, if they see something else going well, they complain that we're not them.

8 hours ago, iv'a worn smith said:

Lies, damn lies and statistics. I am tired of excuses to be honest.  Let's stop trying to paint our situation as something which is unique.  All teams have their inadequacies to some extent.  It is how you manage those flaws which counts.  At the moment, regardless of draft picks, average age, and the basket case from where Carlton have come, they are doing a better job than us right at the minute.

Good for them.

See above.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Just now, titan_uranus said:

The core of their good players were playing finals in 2009-2011 and 2013.

Everyone (media and fans) misjudged their list. I think Malthouse's terrible coaching was underestimated. He took a list that was good (not great, but good enough to be playing finals) and wrecked it, basically.

Bolton's taken over a list that, at its heart, has leadership and talent. He's exceeded expectations but I think, reflecting on their list, that's because those expectations were incorrectly too low (as opposed to Bolton working some sort of miracle).

None of this matters, of course, to those who simply look around them when Melbourne loses and, if they see something else going well, they complain that we're not them.

Good for them.

See above.

Melbourne fans do this better than most.  You see it in the gameday threads, around the league threads etc.  Constant moaning about how we lost to this team or why we can't be that team.  It's a talent that is unmatched by opposition supporters.

[titan_uranus 22,220]

Just now, Wiseblood said:

Melbourne fans do this better than most.  You see it in the gameday threads, around the league threads etc.  Constant moaning about how we lost to this team or why we can't be that team.  It's a talent that is unmatched by opposition supporters.

It's understandable to an extent, but generally speaking irrational and not backed up by facts.

St Kilda is a case in point. Any time we lost last year, especially when St Kilda won the same week, all we ever heard was "St Kilda has gone past us".

We finished the year above them on the ladder and after 10 games this year remain a game and percentage in front of them. The same people who say they have "gone past us" also think we're playing poor football so imagine how far in front of St Kilda we'd be if we were playing good football!

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Just now, titan_uranus said:

It's understandable to an extent, but generally speaking irrational and not backed up by facts.

St Kilda is a case in point. Any time we lost last year, especially when St Kilda won the same week, all we ever heard was "St Kilda has gone past us".

We finished the year above them on the ladder and after 10 games this year remain a game and percentage in front of them. The same people who say they have "gone past us" also think we're playing poor football so imagine how far in front of St Kilda we'd be if we were playing good football!

Wouldn't disagree with any of that, although I still don't understand why people do it.  We are far too negative after a loss, especially when another team has a win or plays well.  Instantly they have 'gone past us'.  It's the most reactionary, and wrong, response I see on this site.

[beelzebub 22,225]

Its not just a loss, it's the nature of the loss...the why and how of it.  It seems as plain as day why.  What isn't , currently , is what the club is doing about it. 

From my seat it looks like cutting off one's nose to spite the face.

Those who repeatedly apply a false logic are doomed. The club has done so much that has worked  and yet the FD ( read perhaps Roos  ) persists with a flawed model

 

Nice job huh

[Moonshadow 16,109]

Fear of another false dawn- The Guardian

[Demon Dynasty 15,207]

22 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

Melbourne fans do this better than most.  You see it in the gameday threads, around the league threads etc.  Constant moaning about how we lost to this team or why we can't be that team.  It's a talent that is unmatched by opposition supporters.

Wise as a club we are also unmatched by any mother club In terms of raising supporter's hopes one week only to dash them the next. That might help to explain this mystery a little :-))

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Just now, Moonshadow said:

Fear of another false dawn- The Guardian

Until we win this week (hypothetically) and the article is "Demon Dynasty Confirmed".  They are as bad as us.

[beelzebub 22,225]

15 minutes ago, Moonshadow said:

Fear of another false dawn- The Guardian

sadly ...probably true until proven otherwise

 

Don't get m wrong. The club has done SO much right and yet still falls at hurdles..why ?

Some serious realisations about inadequacies about the list need to be owned

I know what they are...Bet I'm not alone

 

[Dr. Gonzo 22,399]

7 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Its not just a loss, it's the nature of the loss...the why and how of it.  It seems as plain as day why.  What isn't , currently , is what the club is doing about it. 

From my seat it looks like cutting off one's nose to spite the face.

Those who repeatedly apply a false logic are doomed. The club has done so much that has worked  and yet the FD ( read perhaps Roos  ) persists with a flawed model

 

Nice job huh

The "nature" of the losses amounts to poor disposal and poor workrate the latter of which is understandable in a developing side. It's hard to say which one causes the other, you will always look sluggish when kicks hit the opposition on the chest or handballs miss their targets. 

Edited May 30, 2016 by Dr. Gonzo

[Undeeterred 2,816]

22 hours ago, drdrake said:

Any side that can hit the target by foot consistently will beat us.  We have to many holes in our zone, we seem to protect the flanks and wings and dare teams to take the kick through the corridor, if they hit that kick we are extremely exposed. Love to see the stat goals kicked against from with in 15m. We would be ranked Number , this is our biggest issue once a side gets through our zone that is set that high kicking the goal is very easy I would say 50% of goals against would be kicked from with in 15m from goal with 20-30% be kicked from the goal square. 

They said on the weekend we were number 1 for goals kicked against inside 30m, and I doubt much will have changed after the Port game.

[Undeeterred 2,816]

This sentence from the Guardian article made me do a little vom...

' A Round 10 mark of five wins and five defeats puts them equal to or better than six entire seasons since they last played finals in 2006.'

[iv'a worn smith 1,979]

So Carlton are just better than us?  Sorry, I forgot.  Apparently supporters of any club are not entitled to have an expectation of a team they pay their membership to ......... year in and year out.  Sure, we cop the bad times, but we are entitled to look forward with some level of hope and aspiration or do we just consign ourselves to low memberships based on continual below par performances over a number of years.

Obviously, wiser heads than mine saw more in the Carlton list than I did, but I would hazard a guess that most MFC members, at the start of the 2016 season, would have held an understandable belief that we would rate higher than Carlton.  In fact, I reckon a lot of Carlton supporters would have shared the same view at the start of the season.  We may still rate higher than them, before the season is out, but the roller coaster of wins and losses needs to flatten out ............. just a little please.

[Redleg 37,475]

9 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Melbourne fans do this better than most.  You see it in the gameday threads, around the league threads etc.  Constant moaning about how we lost to this team or why we can't be that team.  It's a talent that is unmatched by opposition supporters.

Rubbish!

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Just now, Redleg said:

Rubbish!

You don't see it on here constantly?  I'd be surprised if you didn't.

[chook fowler 18,174]

3 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

You don't see it on here constantly?  I'd be surprised if you didn't.

Maybe 10 years without a final appearance has something to do with it. Our rate of progress seems glacially slow compared to other sides e.g. Bulldogs, Carlton etc. Supporters have a right to be frustrated when substandard performances like Sunday occur - no excuse for being beaten by almost 8 goals.

[Wiseblood 24,636]

Just now, chook fowler said:

Maybe 10 years without a final appearance has something to do with it. Our rate of progress seems glacially slow compared to other sides e.g. Bulldogs, Carlton etc. Supporters have a right to be frustrated when substandard performances like Sunday occur - no excuse for being beaten by almost 8 goals.

Well I'm sorry that I brought it up.  You guys can keep on worrying about other clubs and what they're doing and how, after a win, they have sped ahead of us in development, talent, money and gameplan.  Don't let me stop you.

[chook fowler 18,174]

Just now, Wiseblood said:

Well I'm sorry that I brought it up.  You guys can keep on worrying about other clubs and what they're doing and how, after a win, they have sped ahead of us in development, talent, money and gameplan.  Don't let me stop you.

You won't 

[Gator 16,891]

9 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Fear of another false dawn- The Guardian

Thanks.

It's quite a good article.

[Redleg 37,475]

16 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

You don't see it on here constantly?  I'd be surprised if you didn't.

Yes I do. But that is not what you said. You said we were the worst. A talent unmatched by other supporters. I think we are no different to most other teams' supporters. In fact after 52 years since the last flag I think we deserve a medal.