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Where does Chris Dawes fit in all this?

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4 minutes ago, P-man said:

 

You were the first person I thought of when he took that overhead mark :D

The guy I was with just looked at each other in amazement.

if he could just do that every week.

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What people mean by 'straightens us up'? Apols, I am out of the country at the moment and you really need to be at the ground to pick this kind of stuff up. 

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Dawes' impact is in our forward line. Pedo's is in his utility - he can play all over the ground and his gut running is first rate. As much as I really like what Pedo provides, the difference in our forward 50 with Dawes playing there is immense. His concrete hands and lack of general marking ability frustrate me no end, but his pace, tackling and presence give Hogan and Watts more time and space and provide Kent, VDB and others with someone to play off.

Hogan is our Rib Eye steak, Watts our cheese and greens platter,  and Dawes is our meat and three veg. 

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19 minutes ago, Ricky P said:

What people mean by 'straightens us up'? Apols, I am out of the country at the moment and you really need to be at the ground to pick this kind of stuff up. 

It means he presents as a target for players down the ground to kick to. So we play directly into the forward line. If you don't have a target like him you have to play indirectly from down the field and hold the ball up wide until other targets present themselves. 

He bursts into packs and busts them open in a way Pedersen has never done. Also is more consistent over four quarters. Pedersen has moments of taking better marks but never stays involved long enough throughout a game.

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39 minutes ago, Maldonboy38 said:

Dawes' impact is in our forward line. Pedo's is in his utility - he can play all over the ground and his gut running is first rate. As much as I really like what Pedo provides, the difference in our forward 50 with Dawes playing there is immense. His concrete hands and lack of general marking ability frustrate me no end, but his pace, tackling and presence give Hogan and Watts more time and space and provide Kent, VDB and others with someone to play off.

Hogan is our Rib Eye steak, Watts our cheese and greens platter,  and Dawes is our meat and three veg. 

Love this analogy, Chris Dawes if fit provides structure, a General in the forward half , takes a good defender away and can kick a goal! The fact he didn't register a goal but provided great decisive moves and impact in clearing the packs and providing leadership is one reason why we won on Monday! Ask Jack Watts and Jessie Hogan what they think of Dawsy in the team!

A keeper for a year or two yet while The Weed and Hullet learn the craft!!

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2 hours ago, Maldonboy38 said:

Dawes' impact is in our forward line. Pedo's is in his utility - he can play all over the ground and his gut running is first rate. As much as I really like what Pedo provides, the difference in our forward 50 with Dawes playing there is immense. His concrete hands and lack of general marking ability frustrate me no end, but his pace, tackling and presence give Hogan and Watts more time and space and provide Kent, VDB and others with someone to play off.

Hogan is our Rib Eye steak, Watts our cheese and greens platter,  and Dawes is our meat and three veg. 

MKR has a lot to answer for!!

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

Love this analogy, Chris Dawes if fit provides structure, a General in the forward half , takes a good defender away and can kick a goal! The fact he didn't register a goal but provided great decisive moves and impact in clearing the packs and providing leadership is one reason why we won on Monday! Ask Jack Watts and Jessie Hogan what they think of Dawsy in the team!

A keeper for a year or two yet while The Weed and Hullet learn the craft!!

The bolded bits are absolutely right. Dawes's positional play, use of his body and sheer footy smarts as a CHF are way ahead of any of the other alternatives. As far as the other forwards are concerned, this makes it much easier to work as a team, and makes the forward line much more effective.

Pedo is a really good back-up for Dawes, but he doesn't work with the other forward in the same way. In fact, Dawes looks as fit as he's ever been at the Dees, because he's been allowed to take his time to get fully fit, and part of the reason he's been able to do that is that Pedo's been such a good back-up.

Dawes in attack is like Vince in defence. You're a defender in a tight spot, you need someone to make position for a give and to deliver the ball forward, and most of the time it's Vince who's in the right place at the right time. In the forward line, the ball's coming in long, you really need a big guy to make a contest, most of the time it's Dawes who's in the right place at the right time. 

And the other player who's often gets to the right place at the right time is Trengove. But that's another story. "Footy smarts" is hard to define, and not something that can be taught, but it's such a valuable commodity to have on your side. 

 

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Every time I see Dawes play I am shocked at how good he is at ground level and how nimble he is.    For some reason despite having seen him play many times I always think of him as slow and lumbering and hopeless below his knees. when thats actually his strength.  

If only he could take a grab and effectively pinch hit in the ruck.

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22 minutes ago, Petraccattack said:

Every time I see Dawes play I am shocked at how good he is at ground level and how nimble he is.    For some reason despite having seen him play many times I always think of him as slow and lumbering and hopeless below his knees. when thats actually his strength.  

If only he could take a grab and effectively pinch hit in the ruck.

Dawes plays like a midfielder when the ball hits the ground and his second and third efforts keep the ball in our forward line.

Dawes is very ordinary in the ruck and Pedo has him covered there but, unfortunately, Pedo goes missing for periods during the game and Dawes stays involved longer.

Pedo is a much better mark and would probably kick more goals, but Dawes would probably do more of the little things that help others kick goals. I hope they both get a bit of time on ground this year, but I get the feeling Roosy would prefer Dawes over Pedo with Jack continuing to be relief rick.

 

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Dawes fits in very nicely when he is fit

just watch the highlight reel from Monday. He is right in the thick of it...

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4 hours ago, P-man said:

He and Pedo are interchangeable. It isn't a debate any longer is it? Who comes in should be dictated purely by form.

Was a mixed bag for Dawesy yesterday but I like his second efforts. He looked fit.

He also seems a very positive influence on the ground in terms of how he gets around the younger players.

Agree... He provides much needed experience and presence 

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1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Dawes fits in very nicely when he is fit

just watch the highlight reel from Monday. He is right in the thick of it...

fit needs to be emphasized. He, more than anyone doesn't play well under an injury cloud. 

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1 minute ago, bandicoot said:

fit needs to be emphasized. He, more than anyone doesn't play well under an injury cloud. 

I know. But he was certainly at full pace yesterday

he is dam quick for his size. Imagine standing in his way!!

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Dawes and Pedo have very different skill sets.

If we need a second ruck that can take a big mark and go forward or back, then it's Pedo. If we need a key forward who directs play, runs hard and takes the heat off Hogan and Watts, then Dawes is our man. Obviously it will also depend upon match ups each week. But at this (very early) stage, with Frost now playing well down back and Dawes holding his own in the forward line, Pedo might struggle to get back in. The musical chairs for big men in our team are quickly being taken and he is still standing.

However, I do not like seeing Jack Watts pinch hitting in the ruck one bit.

Going forward, the better teams like Sydney, Hawthorn and the Cats will be the real test for our big kpd's, not Collingwood.

Edited by Moonshadow

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It's amazing how good our list is when we win...

To me the sooner we can get Weideman into the team and not have to rely on Dawes/Pedersen the better we will be.

Dawes has pretty decent straight line speed but the turning circle of Mathew Bate. He had 2 tackles for the game, one when a C/wood player ran straight into his arms and the other when Sidebottom had the ball then stood and watched Dawes run straight at him, couldn't believe his luck, don't know what Steele was thinking...Buggy must have really done his head in.

He still continues to lead back rather then up at the ball carrier so I'm not so sure he straightens us up at all and Hogan is still getting double & triple teamed so he's not drawing defenders away.

He was ok against a very average defence, lets not get too carried away.

 

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I can't comment on his game but I'll give my two bobs worth on the Pedo v Dawes debate. Dawes at his best is better than Pedo, there can be do debate on it. Pedo provides a back up ruck and a flexible player who can play forward or back (neither with great skill mind you). 

Dawes isn't playing ruck, which concerns me given the workload we're expecting of Maxy and now Watts. 

But I think the match committed always saw this as the ideal situation. Gawn does 85-90% of the rucking duties and Dawes provides a big body in forward line to help Watts, Hogan, and Harmes. 

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Pretty sure he did some rucking on Moday.  A bit of a share around between him and Jack

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12 hours ago, It's Time said:

It means he presents as a target for players down the ground to kick to. So we play directly into the forward line. If you don't have a target like him you have to play indirectly from down the field and hold the ball up wide until other targets present themselves. 

He bursts into packs and busts them open in a way Pedersen has never done. Also is more consistent over four quarters. Pedersen has moments of taking better marks but never stays involved long enough throughout a game.

Nailed it. He makes our forward line much better when fit and tearing around drawing defenders to him. He frees up Hogan and Watts, and the small forwards love being around him at the contest. If Jeffy could get back with form and intent, then we're talking goals aplenty. Probably not this week though I'd say. 

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10 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

Every time I see Dawes play I am shocked at how good he is at ground level and how nimble he is.

I completely agree. His ball gathering skills and ability to be involved in score assists was a stand out on Monday. I was actually quite impressed by his game and follow up work when the ball hit the ground.

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When he is fit he actually has a massive tank and can run non-stop. 

He was good on Monday, definitely silenced any prejudices of him I had of him from when I walked into the G at 15:00

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14 hours ago, CBDees said:

I consider him definitely competing with Pedersen (Hulett, Weideman, Frost) rather than Watts. To me Watts is the automatic third tall!

What happened is that Watts (surprisingly) took Pedersen's fwd/ruck role and Dawes took Watts' forward role

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1 hour ago, Webber said:

Nailed it. He makes our forward line much better when fit and tearing around drawing defenders to him. He frees up Hogan and Watts, and the small forwards love being around him at the contest. If Jeffy could get back with form and intent, then we're talking goals aplenty. Probably not this week though I'd say. 

He has the ability to stand up in tackles and take on 2 players. If he gets the ball out then we have a spare. 

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I think Servicable, is the way to describe his game monday. Did exactly what we need him to do. His workrate was good, pressure was good and his marking was as good as I have seen from him since he got to the club. If he can play that role for another 18-24 months then hopefully the Weed will step up. Thing is his performance monday needs to be his minimum, something im not sure he will be able to replicate week in, week out. Has not shown that in his time at melbourne. Prove me wrong Dawesy!

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He played his role very well on Monday in what was one of his better games for the club.  Runs very hard to provide an option or clear space for a team mate and works very hard off the ball to physically impose himself on the contest.  There probably is no definitive answer in the Dawes v Pedo debate as they both have different strengths and weaknesses.  In any given year both are going to play very good games and both are going to play poor games; but I cannot fault either of their endeavour.

Despite this, unless there are injuries to other forwards, you can't play them both in the same side.

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