Lethal on Melbourne & Hogan

[Emerald 1,744]

I recall Lethal early last year praising our bookends (Hogan & McDonald) saying that you could build a team around them hehe.

[Adam The God 30,275]

7 hours ago, TGR said:

This guy gets it right more often than not.  We all remember Watts' first game and the comments he made to much angst from most here and on 'ology.  Remember H's interview?

 

After the Essendon loss, Matthews pointed to our lack of leg speed as a big issue; and suggests we have focussed too heavily on getting in tougher, albeit slower inside mids.  While he is right, Roos and Co. are day 3 into rebuilding Rome.  The Kangaroos, apart from Wells, aint quick, which should suit us.  The Bulldogs, who are speed personified, smashed us in 2015 at Etihad.

 

On Hogan he said that he doubted his body type for the modern game.  Hogan plays the more traditional sit in the square "kick it to me" role, rather than hard long leads that give the guy with the ball a hit-up and/or creates a vacuum of space behind him.

 

 

BTW, he is still waiting on a re-interview with the big H. 

Matthews is a dinosaur that has been so out of touch with the game for the best part of a decade that he's barely even worth talking about. Didn't he also question Hogan's agility? The bloke's a blithering idiot nowadays. He was a fantastic player and he was a fantastic coach, but it's been a long time since he's been relevant.

Edited April 6, 2016 by AdamFarr

[Adam The God 30,275]

On 6 April 2016 at 2:03 PM, Devil is in the Detail said:

That is [censored]. His endurance is one of his strongest assets. We just have been playing as a stay home forward. Once forward line is sorted out he will play CHF and run the Sh!t out of his opponent.

 

On 6 April 2016 at 2:27 PM, Demonated said:

Lethal is one of the best players ever but he made his mind up before he even saw Hogan play. Last year he was commentating and more or less said Hogan was an aerial threat but didn't have the tools to compete when he didn't mark. Remember his pickup and left footed goal vs St Kilda? How about him gathering his crumb and getting around Thompson from North? Or his handball to Pederson into an open goal? Lethal actually knows Hogan's game less than the average poster on here.

Hogan for his size actually has above average speed and very good aerobic endurance. I'd be willing to bet Matthews isn't even aware of this. If what he is saying was true, Walker and J Reiwoldt wouldn't have the tools for the modern game. Hogan's problem at the moment is purely attitude, he showed that he is much more than capable last year and the game doesn't immediately change in 6 months. The best players from last year will be the best players this year. At least the other people criticising Hogan have an idea of how he plays, Lethals is largely based on very small samples and preconceived notions.

Spot on, both of you. Leigh Doddering Matthews. Doesn't have a clue.

On 6 April 2016 at 2:34 PM, TGR said:

They are the 2nd oldest list in the comp with Freo (1).  They are the most experienced in terms of av. games played.

When you say anymore, when are you comparing them to/with? Doug Wade in the goal square? Mick Nolan in the ruck?

Ziebel - Slow

Cunnington - Slow

Waite - Slow

Brown - Slow

Firrito - Old/slow

Hansen - Slow

Dal Santo - Slow

Swallow - Slow

Petrie - Slow

Gibson - Slow

Any speed they have is old ... Harvey/Higgins/Thomas ...

Wells (and an ageing Harvey) are the only ones that could be termed "electric" and hence line breakers.

North really are going to drop off a cliff soon. They're going nowhere and are in some real strife. 

[Deecisive 1,709]

We bomb it to Hogan in the square because that is where he is. If he lead up the field a bit more then maybe we could pass it to him. Unfortunately he is usually having to wrestle himself free from one or two opponents who either man handle or try to shepherd him out of the contest. We need players to get between him and his shadow to give a meter on his opponents.

[Ted Lasso 19,521]

Jesse isn't helping himself, every man in his dog will write an article every time he says or does anything, that's just what his career is going to be like, but when he doesn't lead, chase, tackle and constantly looks for free kicks, he just gives them ammunition 

[titan_uranus 25,020]

6 hours ago, TGR said:

This guy gets it right more often than not.  We all remember Watts' first game and the comments he made to much angst from most here and on 'ology.  Remember H's interview?

 

After the Essendon loss, Matthews pointed to our lack of leg speed as a big issue; and suggests we have focussed too heavily on getting in tougher, albeit slower inside mids.  While he is right, Roos and Co. are day 3 into rebuilding Rome.  The Kangaroos, apart from Wells, aint quick, which should suit us.  The Bulldogs, who are speed personified, smashed us in 2015 at Etihad.

 

On Hogan he said that he doubted his body type for the modern game.  Hogan plays the more traditional sit in the square "kick it to me" role, rather than hard long leads that give the guy with the ball a hit-up and/or creates a vacuum of space behind him.

 

 

BTW, he is still waiting on a re-interview with the big H. 

I disagree with almost everything in this post, starting with the line "this guy gets it right more often than not". He's well past it.

Lack of leg speed is an issue when we lose. Hawthorn looked slow against Geelong. But we beat GWS who is one of the fastest (leg speed-wise) teams in the competition. 

The Kangas have a decent amount of leg speed. We beat the Dogs last year, same year they were all about speed.

As for his comments on Hogan, he has NFI. Hogan's had a bad two weeks but he's played 22 games, not just those two, and clearly shown above-average endurance and a strong ability below his knees (which puts him squarely within the "body type for the modern game").

[WhyAlwaysMe 237]

2 hours ago, AdamFarr said:

Matthews is a dinosaur that has been so out of touch with the game for the best part of a decade that he's barely even worth talking about. Didn't he also question Hogan agility? The bloke's a blithering idiot nowadays. He was a fantastic player and he was a fantastic coach, but it's been a long time since he's been relevant.

He stopped coaching 1 or 2 years before Roos left Swans

[John Crow Batty 8,871]

Bemusing  when keyboard warriors read something they don't  like from legends of the game and somehow think they know more than them.

[olisik 4,060]

Three threads about Hogan in half a week. 

Hogan is the new Watts?

[John Crow Batty 8,871]

35 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I disagree with almost everything in this post, starting with the line "this guy gets it right more often than not". He's well past it.

Lack of leg speed is an issue when we lose. Hawthorn looked slow against Geelong. But we beat GWS who is one of the fastest (leg speed-wise) teams in the competition. 

The Kangas have a decent amount of leg speed. We beat the Dogs last year, same year they were all about speed.

As for his comments on Hogan, he has NFI. Hogan's had a bad two weeks but he's played 22 games, not just those two, and clearly shown above-average endurance and a strong ability below his knees (which puts him squarely within the "body type for the modern game").

Hogan has played only 22 games but he's acting like a dictator on the forward line. No wonder the forward line is so dysfunctional with an upstart like him calling the  shots then sooking when he doesn't get his own way. Wants to be the hero every time.  I wish he gets dropped for the North game. Then we may see some nice fluid forward work unseen since we beat Geelong las season sans Hogan. He needs some serious attitude adjustment and learn his place.

Edited April 6, 2016 by america de cali

[DeeSpencer 25,723]

7 hours ago, TGR said:

This guy gets it right more often than not.  We all remember Watts' first game and the comments he made to much angst from most here and on 'ology.  Remember H's interview?

 

After the Essendon loss, Matthews pointed to our lack of leg speed as a big issue; and suggests we have focussed too heavily on getting in tougher, albeit slower inside mids.  While he is right, Roos and Co. are day 3 into rebuilding Rome.  The Kangaroos, apart from Wells, aint quick, which should suit us.  The Bulldogs, who are speed personified, smashed us in 2015 at Etihad.

 

On Hogan he said that he doubted his body type for the modern game.  Hogan plays the more traditional sit in the square "kick it to me" role, rather than hard long leads that give the guy with the ball a hit-up and/or creates a vacuum of space behind him.

 

 

BTW, he is still waiting on a re-interview with the big H. 

The Dogs have Wallis, Libba, the Bont (who moves smoothly but isn't lightning), Koby Stevens, Picken etc in their midfield. They aren't exactly speed machines. Same for the Hawks with Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Shiel. 

The secret is to have fast players in the spots that really matter (wing and flanks), play fast and skillful footy and have options to cover faster inside mids. 

Jack Viney has burst speed and determination to cover anyone. Tyson, Oliver and Brayshaw aren't fast. But all are still building their bodies. I think Brayshaw often looks like he's moving slowly when he can run and hunt down opponents as well as burn them off. We've seen Oliver's side step and agility in action. Then of course there's Petracca. 

We need more half forwards, wingmen and at least 1 half back with real dash. That's obvious. I think we can develop speed in the forwards we have now (Watts, Vanders, Ben Ken, Harmes, Kent etc), they just need to play better. The wings is a bit up in air besides Billy Stretch we don't have a lot of options and it's Lumumba or Hunt for down back. But mostly we need to move the ball faster besides from getting a couple of extra speedy types.

I think he's flat wrong on Hogan. He has the potential for great endurance, solid speed and really good smarts to turn and beat any quicker opponent. I think he could easily play as a midfielder when on his game. He's clearly not at his best right now and I don't know if it's preparation, form, confidence, the role in the team or what it is but you don't lose athletic potential overnight.

[manny100 1,570]

Hogan has a big tank and some times gets a run in the midfield. He is clearly capable of playing a high half forward role if he is required to. Watts has been used as the quicker leading 3rd tall this season so far. We have some speed in Garlett, Kent, Lumamba and Kennedy is pretty fast. Also coming through the ranks are Hunt and Stretch who are both fairly quick. When we are playing well we move the ball quickly in any case.

So I think Lethal probably did not do his home work before making those comments.

 

[pineapple dee 2,892]

6 hours ago, chook fowler said:

I think Hogan has the acceleration - he just doesn't lead.

If Hogan leads and our mids think and act quick to get the ball out in front of him, then we'll see a big change in results. I'd like to see Hogan lead 30- 40 times a game. Easy for me to say it but he is fit enough to do it. It's his job isn't it ?? 

[Adam The God 30,275]

1 hour ago, WhyAlwaysMe said:

He stopped coaching 1 or 2 years before Roos left Swans

And he was completely out of touch in his last year or two. Since his retirement/sacking he's deteriorated even further.

[chook fowler 19,459]

I definitely don't  think that Matthews would be the coach for GenY footballers

Edited April 6, 2016 by chook fowler

[Adam The God 30,275]

20 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

I definitely don't  think that Matthews would be the coach for GenY footballers

I get sick of this attitude. Clarkson is one of the most authoritarian coaches going around at the moment. Gen yers seem to respond to him alright.

[dee-luded 2,959]

2 hours ago, america de cali said:

Bemusing  when keyboard warriors read something they don't  like from legends of the game and somehow think they know more than them.

 

Don't worry,  Matthews won't be.   He would leave the keyboard warriors at they're own wakes,  physically,  or mentally.  

When Matthews was concussed after games,  he would get away from the rooms & doctors before they could assess him and go home to rest.  A sharp footy mind.

 

 

[Little Goffy 14,581]

2 hours ago, WhyAlwaysMe said:

He stopped coaching 1 or 2 years before Roos left Swans

Having not reach finals in four years, Matthews retired in 2008, leaving a club in significant disarray and with a divided culture.

Having returned his club to finals in 2010, after the one and only season out of finals under his tenure in 2009, Roos handed over the coaching position according to a long-established succession plan and with a list and culture that set the club for continued success to this day.

It is also worth noting that Matthew's coaching career had already accumulated ten years before 1995.

Matthews was one of the great coaches of his era, but he remains of his era.

 

More pertinent to this conversation, Matthews is a bone-lazy commentator who constantly goes off half-cocked in the hope everyone will forget the dumb things he says and just remember the times he turned out to be right.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,235]

7 hours ago, dee-luded said:

 

Don't worry,  Matthews won't be.   He would leave the keyboard warriors at they're own wakes,  physically,  or mentally.  

When Matthews was concussed after games,  he would get away from the rooms & doctors before they could assess him and go home to rest.  A sharp footy mind.

 

 

Might explain a bit

[dazzledavey36 54,998]

8 hours ago, dee-luded said:

 

Don't worry,  Matthews won't be.   He would leave the keyboard warriors at they're own wakes,  physically,  or mentally.  

When Matthews was concussed after games,  he would get away from the rooms & doctors before they could assess him and go home to rest.  A sharp footy mind.

 

 

Pfft...

[John Crow Batty 8,871]

8 hours ago, chook fowler said:

I definitely don't  think that Matthews would be the coach for GenY footballers

They would poo their pants before they ran home to mummy.

[chook fowler 19,459]

8 hours ago, AdamFarr said:

I get sick of this attitude. Clarkson is one of the most authoritarian coaches going around at the moment. Gen yers seem to respond to him alright.

I'm not sure that he is. Whenever I've heard Hawthorn people interviewed and that includes Beveridge and Bolton they have praised Clarkson for being a good listener, taking onboard input from others, generally being very collaborative and able to build strong reIationships. I don't get the sense he is a fire and brimstone type at all.

[Gator 17,383]

18 hours ago, TGR said:

This guy gets it right more often than not.  We all remember Watts' first game and the comments he made to much angst from most here and on 'ology.  Remember H's interview?

 

After the Essendon loss, Matthews pointed to our lack of leg speed as a big issue; and suggests we have focussed too heavily on getting in tougher, albeit slower inside mids.  While he is right, Roos and Co. are day 3 into rebuilding Rome.  The Kangaroos, apart from Wells, aint quick, which should suit us.  The Bulldogs, who are speed personified, smashed us in 2015 at Etihad.

 

On Hogan he said that he doubted his body type for the modern game.  Hogan plays the more traditional sit in the square "kick it to me" role, rather than hard long leads that give the guy with the ball a hit-up and/or creates a vacuum of space behind him.

 

 

BTW, he is still waiting on a re-interview with the big H. 

The same Leigh Matthews who was bemused at Jack Fitzpatrick being a defender against the Dogs when he'd played all year at Casey as a defender ?  Leigh does no homework, rocks up on the day and firms castiron opinions based on limited exposure.  As has been pointed out, he ruled a line through Hogan's ground level creativity, which is inane, because he's one of the smartest and best handballers at the club.  And now he doubts his body type.

Alas, H has left the building (to the gratification of many), but if he was still around he'd ask Leigh whether he knew Hogan ran 3 seconds flat for the 20 metre sprint at DC (very good for a power forward), whether he knew he was top 10 in the beep test or that he was top 10 in the 3km time trial, which is clear evidence of a power forward with an excellent combination of speed and endurance. 

He'd ask him whether he knew he'd excelled at CHB and played midfield to effect in juniors.

And he'd ask him why he'd missed those long hard leads while marking under heat at high half-forward/wing.

He'd also show him this gif, which highlights agility and dual sided skill.  

And for good measure: hitting a pack at speed

 

But I suspect he'd also eat some humble pie over that first interview... 

Edited April 6, 2016 by ProDee

[Adam The God 30,275]

39 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

I'm not sure that he is. Whenever I've heard Hawthorn people interviewed and that includes Beveridge and Bolton they have praised Clarkson for being a good listener, taking onboard input from others, generally being very collaborative and able to build strong reIationships. I don't get the sense he is a fire and brimstone type at all.

One of my mates has worked at Hawthorn for the best part of a decade. He says he can be a loose canon. From what he's told me of the sprays he gives players, Gen Yers seem to respond to them. Perhaps authoritarian was the incorrect choice of words, but my point was he dishes it out and those pathetic, soft Gen Yers like Luke Hodge and co take it on board.

Edited April 6, 2016 by AdamFarr

[rjay 24,964]

19 hours ago, TGR said:

 

On Hogan he said that he doubted his body type for the modern game.  Hogan plays the more traditional sit in the square "kick it to me" role, rather than hard long leads that give the guy with the ball a hit-up and/or creates a vacuum of space behind him.

 

Probably would have doubted "Pluggers" body shape for the modern game too.

Champions of the game would be champions in any generation with any body type. Hogan is no different, he will be a champion. At the moment he's a kid finding his way in the game, once he gets on his bike and starts moving he will get his mojo back.