THE BOMBERS' SWISS ADVENTURE

[Chris 2,892]

On 8/19/2016 at 0:47 PM, FireInTheBelly said:

Does anyone know if there's any drug testing of these banned players during the ban?

Considering Essendrug has now managed to turn their cheating program into a number one draft pick (and potentially priority pick), as well as an 'enhanced' salary cap, is there anything to stop the players juicing up to the eyeballs whilst training during the suspension, and then work back from the end of the ban to determine when they need to stop injections so it flows out of their system and can't be detected post-ban? The only issue would be ensuring no tests were done close to the end of the ban, by, I don't know, disappearing on a Euorpean tour, or something.

Is there ongoing testing of temporarily banned drug cheats?

Yes there is (by ASADA so it should actually happen unlike if it was the AFL testing), and going to Europe wont help them at all as they have to tell ASADA where they are and ASADA can call on their counterpart in that part of the world to go and test them, as has happened in the US when Collingwood and others went over there. 

[Willmoy1947 4,085]

1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I can't speak for what happens in Jamaica, but every medallist at an Olympic Games is tested as are winners (and other placegetters?) at World Athletic Championships. Your inference that we should be suspicious of Jamaican athletes who have never been found guilty of doping is an unfortunate by-product of a general suspicion of all high performing athletes.

Unfortunate but correct.

[FireInTheBennelly 4,072]

2 hours ago, Chris said:

Yes there is (by ASADA so it should actually happen unlike if it was the AFL testing), and going to Europe wont help them at all as they have to tell ASADA where they are and ASADA can call on their counterpart in that part of the world to go and test them, as has happened in the US when Collingwood and others went over there. 

Thanks Chris.

[daisycutter 29,613]

1 hour ago, willmoy said:

Unfortunate but correct.

that, plus the population of jamaica is only 2.8M and they have won the 4x100 for the last 3 olympics. plus 16 sprint medals at rio - 11 gold, 3 silver,2 bronze

must be the bananas

 

[beelzebub 23,363]

7 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

that, plus the population of jamaica is only 2.8M and they have won the 4x100 for the last 3 olympics. plus 16 sprint medals at rio - 11 gold, 3 silver,2 bronze

must be the bananas

 

throw away line ? 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,754]

6 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

that, plus the population of jamaica is only 2.8M and they have won the 4x100 for the last 3 olympics. plus 16 sprint medals at rio - 11 gold, 3 silver,2 bronze

must be the bananas

 

Actually, I was just talking with someone from Jamaica last week. While genes help, Jamaica benefits from (1) Government resources being concentrated on training sprinters rather than dispersing funding across multiple sports and (2) most of the best sprinters end up gaining scholarships to US colleges where they train using top notch training facilities. 

[Macca 16,963]

If, by extension, our club gets the chance to advance itself in monetary terms by playing a home game with 'blockbuster' status, I'm all for it.  To do so against a club with the PED history that Essendon has had is unpalatable but lots of things in life can be unpalatable ... for instance ...

We can point the finger at the Olympics and cycling and a myriad of other sports with regards to PED use all we like but we are not much better ourselves.  I'll say it again ... 1 urine test per player per season in the AFL is pathetic and is a token gesture. 

The new way of testing a sportsperson for PED's are blood tests and by default, blood passports - and those blood tests need to happen up to 30-40 times a year. Oddly enough, a number of Olympic sports and cycling has those types of measures but you'd never know it ... transparency has it's price.

Our sport isn't clean in my opinion and can't be because we're not trying to catch drug cheats in a meaningful way.  Unless we believe that all our footy players are squeaky clean whilst the rest of the world isn't? 

Signing up to the strongest drug code with WADA/ASADA is totally meaningless unless you've got strong testing standards and procedures to go with the tough penalties ... and the AFL fails miserably on that front.  That's the inconvenient truth.

For 364 days a year an AFL player is safe in the knowledge that he almost certainly will not be tested for performance enhancing drugs.  And even when he is tested he knows it's only going to be a urine test so he's free to take any number of PED's that don't show up in a urine test.  And many PED's are out of a players system within 24 - 48 hours so the timing of the urine test needs to be quite exact.  So it's roll the dice time with the odds heavily stacked in the player's favour.

It would be a simple task to take PED's in the AFL and get away with it (much like it's dead easy to take PED's in the NBA, NHL & Soccer and get away with it)

 

 

Edited August 22, 2016 by Macca

[daisycutter 29,613]

4 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Actually, I was just talking with someone from Jamaica last week. While genes help, Jamaica benefits from (1) Government resources being concentrated on training sprinters rather than dispersing funding across multiple sports and (2) most of the best sprinters end up gaining scholarships to US colleges where they train using top notch training facilities. 

maybe, but the disproportionate success rate per capita plus the almost non-existence of drug testing in jamaica all adds to suspicion in an environment where everyone is becoming increasingly sceptical of successful athletes, especially where the statistics are out of the norm. i'm not accusing, merely raising my eyebrows

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,754]

1 minute ago, daisycutter said:

maybe, but the disproportionate success rate per capita plus the almost non-existence of drug testing in jamaica all adds to suspicion in an environment where everyone is becoming increasingly sceptical of successful athletes, especially where the statistics are out of the norm. i'm not accusing, merely raising my eyebrows

I'll just have to take you at your word. Impossible to see your eyebrows under the Phantom's mask.

[Willmoy1947 4,085]

1 minute ago, daisycutter said:

maybe, but the disproportionate success rate per capita plus the almost non-existence of drug testing in jamaica all adds to suspicion in an environment where everyone is becoming increasingly sceptical of successful athletes, especially where the statistics are out of the norm. i'm not accusing, merely raising my eyebrows

All you have to do is key in JADCO, All the Commissioners in Jamaica resigned in 2013(lot happening in 2013) and who took their place?

[Macca 16,963]

6 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

maybe, but the disproportionate success rate per capita plus the almost non-existence of drug testing in jamaica all adds to suspicion in an environment where everyone is becoming increasingly sceptical of successful athletes, especially where the statistics are out of the norm. i'm not accusing, merely raising my eyebrows

And 1 urine test per player per season is ok in the AFL?

Putting aside your love of footy, can you not see the double standards that we have?

Edited August 22, 2016 by Macca

[Chris 2,892]

7 minutes ago, Macca said:

And 1 urine test per player per season is ok in the AFL?

Putting aside your love of footy, can you not see the double standards that we have?

Not to mention the AFL testing for 'social' drugs and then not releasing the results to ASADA. Just a thought, maybe they don't release them because many/most of the social drugs are actually banned by WADA. The AFL all by itself is actually signed up to the WDA code but then turns a blind eye and hands out warnings to players it catches that are cheating under the WADA code, all in the guise of what is good for  the player and that they are tackling a societal problem.

Bulltish! If you wish to be an elite athlete there are responsibilities and sacrifices that must be made, living under the WADA code is just one of those, apparently the poor little boys int eh AFL can't handle that though!

[daisycutter 29,613]

9 minutes ago, Macca said:

And 1 urine test per player per season is ok in the AFL?

Putting aside your love of footy, can you not see the double standards that we have?

i don't understand your comment, macca

i have been very vocal in my condemnation of the afl's unconvincing drug testing protocols (peds or otherwise)

[Willmoy1947 4,085]

I think we're all on the same page with this except for supporters of TWSNBN and the AFL, Media and IOC, not forgetting most of the World.

[Macca 16,963]

16 minutes ago, Chris said:

Not to mention the AFL testing for 'social' drugs and then not releasing the results to ASADA. Just a thought, maybe they don't release them because many/most of the social drugs are actually banned by WADA. The AFL all by itself is actually signed up to the WDA code but then turns a blind eye and hands out warnings to players it catches that are cheating under the WADA code, all in the guise of what is good for  the player and that they are tackling a societal problem.

Bulltish! If you wish to be an elite athlete there are responsibilities and sacrifices that must be made, living under the WADA code is just one of those, apparently the poor little boys int eh AFL can't handle that though!

Agreed Chris ... we as Australians need to look in our own backyard if we're happy to point the finger elsewhere.  But we don't and we won't (and I'm not talking about people like you and I) 

Our love of our footy codes stops us from doing so ... we're hopelessly compromised and biased.  The double standards are astonishing and there are very few people even remotely interested in broadening their outlook & knowledge of PED use in sport.

14 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

i don't understand your comment, macca

i have been very vocal in my condemnation of the afl's unconvincing drug testing protocols (peds or otherwise)

Fair enough but your original comment re the Jamaicans looks damning in isolation.  For what it's worth I agree with your comments about the Jamaicans but I reckon we do even less here in this country to catch drug cheats.

Especially in the AFL ... it's like people are thinking the whole PED issue has now magically disappeared because Essendon got done ... how do we not know that the problem is now worse? 

The AFL does very little testing and they don't test properly = they're not going to catch the drug cheats.  But I could be talking about soccer, the NBA or the NHL or any number of other sports as well ... I'm pointing the finger everywhere.

 

Edited August 22, 2016 by Macca

[daisycutter 29,613]

15 minutes ago, Macca said:

 

Fair enough but your original comment re the Jamaicans looks damning in isolation.  For what it's worth I agree with your comments about the Jamaicans but I reckon we do even less here in this country to catch drug cheats.

 

but it wasn't in isolation. i didn't raise the issue re jamaica, i merely responded/added to previous posts. besides you and i have discussed before (and been in general agreement) the broad issue of drugs in sport.

[Macca 16,963]

Just now, daisycutter said:

but it wasn't in isolation. i didn't raise the issue re jamaica, i merely responded/added to previous posts. besides you and i have discussed before (and been in general agreement) the broad issue of drugs in sport.

I suppose I just quoted you at the tail end of the discussion because it was convenient to do so and also because we've discussed this matter before ... I knew that you would at least respond which allows the conversation to flow on.

I'm broadening the discussion on PED use but I won't necessarily let the Olympics off the hook ... this issue is broad but very few people will acknowledge that and when it gets a bit closer to home, they don't want to know about it.

That's not all people but a large slice of people in this country believe the issue of PED use lies elsewhere.  Look at how our media protected the Bombers for instance ... the truth was withheld, lies weren't questioned etc etc etc.  And out of it came that many people truly believe that the EFC or it's players did nothing wrong.  I would say the large majority but that's just an educated guess.

But when the same sort of thing happens overseas we collectively point the finger of guilt without question (again, not everyone)  We are miles off having a consistent stance on PED use.

[daisycutter 29,613]

28 minutes ago, Macca said:

I suppose I just quoted you at the tail end of the discussion because it was convenient to do so and also because we've discussed this matter before ... I knew that you would at least respond which allows the conversation to flow on.

I'm broadening the discussion on PED use but I won't necessarily let the Olympics off the hook ... this issue is broad but very few people will acknowledge that and when it gets a bit closer to home, they don't want to know about it.

That's not all people but a large slice of people in this country believe the issue of PED use lies elsewhere.  Look at how our media protected the Bombers for instance ... the truth was withheld, lies weren't questioned etc etc etc.  And out of it came that many people truly believe that the EFC or it's players did nothing wrong.  I would say the large majority but that's just an educated guess.

But when the same sort of thing happens overseas we collectively point the finger of guilt without question (again, not everyone)  We are miles off having a consistent stance on PED use.

well, just to expand things a bit, wait till gene modification takes off. the future looks even murkier, not that i'm saying we should resign our-self to it

[Macca 16,963]

57 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

well, just to expand things a bit, wait till gene modification takes off. the future looks even murkier, not that i'm saying we should resign our-self to it

Where will it all end?

Whilst many want to move on from the Essendon saga the bit that disappoints me greatly in the aftermath of the scandal is the AFL's approach since. 

Instead of taking a tougher stance with more stringent testing and way more tests, they've ignored the wake up call and are effectively doing much the same as what they've done in the past.  Which is not much at all. 

And why isn't our media leading the push for a tougher stance?  And what about the footy public or the general public?  It all got too hard once they realised how hard it actually is to catch drug cheats.

What is needed are weekly/fortnightly blood tests (Paul Roos actually suggested that a number of years ago) and by default, blood passports.  Instead of that we have the miniscule measures that are now in place.

And a number of 'Substances' are also performance enhancing drugs ... fairly sure that is now recognised under the WADA code - another reason why that part of the drug code isn't transparent in the AFL (?)

[faultydet 7,594]

3 minutes ago, Macca said:

Where will it all end?

Whilst many want to move on from the Essendon saga the bit that disappoints me greatly in the aftermath of the scandal is the AFL's approach since. 

Instead of taking a tougher stance with more stringent testing and way more tests, they've ignored the wake up call and are effectively doing much the same as what they've done in the past.  Which is not much at all. 

And why isn't our media leading the push for a tougher stance?  And what about the footy public or the general public?  It all got too hard once they realised how hard it actually is to catch drug cheats.

What is needed are weekly/fortnightly blood tests (Paul Roos actually suggested that a number of years ago) and by default, blood passports.  Instead of that we have the miniscule measures that are now in place.

And a number of 'Substances' are also performance enhancing drugs ... fairly sure that is now recognised under the WADA code - another reason why that part of the drug code isn't transparent in the AFL (?)

The afl hierarchy has KPI's that I'm sure include "growth of the game" ie revenue growth, as a high proportion of their bonuses. 

The NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB/FIFA/AFL all turn a blind eye to drugs of all types. Its MONEY. It's the single reason why I raise an eyebrow to every single winner, of every single major sport now.

The afl bosses don't care, because they want more MONEY

The managers don't care, because they want more MONEY

The TV networks don't care, because they want more MONEY

Govt doesn't care, because it wants more MONEY.

Underworld types only get involved if it makes then MONEY.

 

 

Just between you and I, I have a hunch it might be based on money.

The exception is the fans. Lets be honest, they (majority) don't want their players tested every week, because they just want a flag.

[old dee 23,788]

14 minutes ago, faultydet said:

The afl hierarchy has KPI's that I'm sure include "growth of the game" ie revenue growth, as a high proportion of their bonuses. 

The NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB/FIFA/AFL all turn a blind eye to drugs of all types. Its MONEY. It's the single reason why I raise an eyebrow to every single winner, of every single major sport now.

The afl bosses don't care, because they want more MONEY

The managers don't care, because they want more MONEY

The TV networks don't care, because they want more MONEY

Govt doesn't care, because it wants more MONEY.

Underworld types only get involved if it makes then MONEY.

 

 

Just between you and I, I have a hunch it might be based on money.

The exception is the fans. Lets be honest, they (majority) don't want their players tested every week, because they just want a flag.

Your last para says it all FD.

It is the reason I take little notice now of most major sports.

[TRIGON 4,783]

1 hour ago, daisycutter said:

well, just to expand things a bit, wait till gene modification takes off. the future looks even murkier, not that i'm saying we should resign our-self to it

Gene Scissors, Danks nephew?

[Macca 16,963]

6 minutes ago, faultydet said:

The afl hierarchy has KPI's that I'm sure include "growth of the game" ie revenue growth, as a high proportion of their bonuses. 

The NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB/FIFA/AFL all turn a blind eye to drugs of all types. Its MONEY. It's the single reason why I raise an eyebrow to every single winner, of every single major sport now.

The afl bosses don't care, because they want more MONEY

The managers don't care, because they want more MONEY

The TV networks don't care, because they want more MONEY

Govt doesn't care, because it wants more MONEY.

Underworld types only get involved if it makes then MONEY.

 

 

Just between you and I, I have a hunch it might be based on money.

The exception is the fans. Lets be honest, they (majority) don't want their players tested every week, because they just want a flag.

You're right of course 'faulty' but it shouldn't be all about the money and that's what sports of all sorts has become.

It all runs at about 85% for me and the bit that often isn't there is the emotional investment - although it is there sometimes.  Like when we defeated the Hawks a couple of weeks ago or when Kyle Chalmers won the 100m freestyle. 

I watched Usain Bolt win 3 more gold medals with an ambivalent attitude and I won't watch the Bombers play and haven't done since the start of the 2013 season (except when we play them)  So we can all protest in our own unique way I suppose. 

I myself am influenced by the money that could come our club's way if we were to have a regular home game against Essendon ... but our club shouldn't suffer because of the misdeeds of others should it?

[faultydet 7,594]

1 minute ago, Macca said:

You're right of course 'faulty' but it shouldn't be all about the money and that's what sports of all sorts has become.

It all runs at about 85% for me and the bit that often isn't there is the emotional investment - although it is there sometimes.  Like when we defeated the Hawks a couple of weeks ago or when Kyle Chalmers won the 100m freestyle. 

I watched Usain Bolt win 3 more gold medals with an ambivalent attitude and I won't watch the Bombers play and haven't done since the start of the 2013 season (except when we play them)  So we can all protest in our own unique way I suppose. 

I myself am influenced by the money that could come our club's way if we were to have a regular home game against Essendon ... but our club shouldn't suffer because of the misdeeds of others should it?

au contraire, we should always profit from the misdeeds of others, especially if they are advised beforehand of the authorities looking into their nefarious doings, and offered unlimited help at covering it up.

 

[monoccular 17,427]

16 hours ago, daisycutter said:

on a different issue i have read of essendon offering contracts to some of their top-up players. i would have thought with the return of the banned players, all the top-up players would have to go back into the draft.........not that i'm saying any would be particularly appealing

I was if the understanding that the top up players, never having been drafted competitively, were on a non renewable one year contract    Is the AFL once again bending over backwards to help the cheating bastards