JUDGEMENT DAY - THE "BOMBER" 34

[jnrmac 18,932]

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Not an apologist for Dr Reid but he is mainly a 'game day' doctor. 

He may or may not personally attend all training sessions and he may or may not go to his private consulting or at the club.  There is a fair chance all the injections etc happened when Reid wasn't on the premises. 

That at least one player (who had been his private patient since 1999 ie someone who should have known better) withheld info Dr Reid suggests the good doctor was sidelined, bigtime!

He knew. Why did he write the 'letter' that was never seen by the board? Totally self-serving, revisionist and IMO bunk.

When you are medical director you are in charge full stop. None of this "But I wasn't there during the week". You set the standards, the protocols and the chain of command. Simple.

At Melbourne I was told our our long standing doctor (Dr Andrew Gaff I believe) and his team resigned en masse when it became clear that the sports science people (Missen I believe it was)  were given final say over whether a player was fit to play. The doctors acted as they should. Professional and in my view correctly. They didn't accept that and resigned. Our board should have looked at that and assesses whether this was appropriate protocol or otherwise. That is what a proper process is all about. The EFC didn't have it and Reid has been shown up for being a fan boi and unprofessional. As has the EFC board.

[daisycutter 28,480]

34 minutes ago, Ted Fidge said:

On Sunday night, Hird is being interviewed on ABC TV.

By Tracey Holmes.

I anticipate they will both make fools of themselves.

tracey holmes discussing this with tony jones this morning on 3aw came across as a hird sympathiser

even jones, an essendon supporter said he felt this. he was also disappointed that the show will cover a lot of other aspects and not just focus on hird's "story" which he thought would be a pity as he thought it should just concentrate on interviewing hird as this was an opportunity to delve deeper and not just regurgitate generalisations. he said he probably wouldn't bother watching

[old dee 22,819]

7 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

tracey holmes discussing this with tony jones this morning on 3aw came across as a hird sympathiser

even jones, an essendon supporter said he felt this. he was also disappointed that the show will cover a lot of other aspects and not just focus on hird's "story" which he thought would be a pity as he thought it should just concentrate on interviewing hird as this was an opportunity to delve deeper and not just regurgitate generalisations. he said he probably wouldn't bother watching

Are we surprised that Hird will do an interview with someone who will not ask the hard questions.

I do not want to hear from the Hird camp ever again.

Is there any chance he could decamp to France or Outer Mongolia any time soon. 

[Willmoy1947 3,765]

Am I jumping the gun with "Judgement Day the Aftermath" moderators

[H_T 2,941]

3 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

This may have been addressed before but can someone explain to me why the 2 year penalty was backdated to the date the AFL let them off?  The banned players played during that period which makes no sense to me. 

In reality it's a 23 week ban. 

It's stated in here:

http://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Arbitral_Award_WADA_ESSENDON.pdf

[biggestred 4,272]

Still can't explain why the whole Club hasn't been banned given 34 players were guilty of doping.

[Slartibartfast 15,747]

40 minutes ago, H_T said:

It's stated in here:

http://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/Arbitral_Award_WADA_ESSENDON.pdf

Thanks H_T but I was hoping to avoid having to read a 40 page judgement and borrow another's intellectual property with a quick and simple answer.  TBH I don't care enough to fight my way through that!

[Lucifers Hero 36,988]

4 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

This may have been addressed before but can someone explain to me why the 2 year penalty was backdated to the date the AFL let them off?  The banned players played during that period which makes no sense to me. 

In reality it's a 23 week ban. 

BBob read sections 168 to 170 .  Essentially, the backdating was for delays in the process outside the players control.

[H_T 2,941]

10 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Thanks H_T but I was hoping to avoid having to read a 40 page judgement and borrow another's intellectual property with a quick and simple answer.  TBH I don't care enough to fight my way through that!

Here's another lighter read.

http://sociallitigator.com/2016/01/12/essendon-saga-13-legal-things-from-cas-judgment-day/

[Slartibartfast 15,747]

14 minutes ago, H_T said:

Here's another lighter read.

http://sociallitigator.com/2016/01/12/essendon-saga-13-legal-things-from-cas-judgment-day/

The ban was back-dated to 31 March 2015, when the AFL Tribunal decision was handed down. CAS did not need to back-date, and exercised its discretion to do so based on the delay in bringing the matters on for hearing: para 171.

The Panel recognised there were some factors in favour of back-dating (e.g. intense, “if sporadic” media spotlight for more than three years), and others against (e.g. some of the delay was caused by the Players’ unsuccessful attempt in the Federal Court of Australia to quash the infraction notices), but decided to back-date on balance.

 

 

[Dees2014 2,377]

4 hours ago, jnrmac said:

It's a given.

 

BTW Why would she be on Hird's side?

Good question - one of life's great mysteries. Maybe she and Stan Grant are mad bomber supporters , but I thought she was from NSW. In any case, she ranks with Robbo as being the most biased in the media on this issue, and one of the most powerful because she is a senior producer with ABC News and Current Affairs and therefore control the choice of "expert" commentators on this issue on the ABC radio and television. That is why so often throughout this affair the ABC chooses one of Hird's tame academics to give a totally biased (and usually wrong) perspective in favour of Essendon. 

One of the few times I can remember ABC News being so consistently wrong and lacking in integrity. It is a very poor reflection on its senior management. 

Edited January 13, 2016 by Dees2014

[Slartibartfast 15,747]

2 minutes ago, Dees2014 said:

 

One of the few times I can remember ABC News being so consistently wrong and lacking in integrity. It is a very poor reflection on its senior management. 

Joke?

[Demonised 1,198]

6 hours ago, Ted Fidge said:

It's become urban myth, hasn't it? That it was crafted with the Olympics in mind, and two year/four year penalties fit in with the Olympic cycle, and the worst druggies are all Olympic athletes, and, and ... (hand waving here) ... therefore it must have no applicability to non-Olympic sports. Busted syllogism.

It's leapt on by EFC apologists, and small-minded journos who otherwise should have no allegiance to drug cheats, because Hird can't have done anything wrong, nor the EFC, nor the players ... it's Dank! It's the AFL! It's the system, man! It's .... it's WADA themselves!!

From that point, tailor the facts to suit the conclusion.

'Busted syllogism'. Nice. Don't often see that phrase on a footy forum.

[binman 37,872]

3 minutes ago, Dees2014 said:

Good question - one of life's great mysteries. Maybe she and Stan Grant are mad bomber supporters , but I thought she was from NSW. In any case, she ranks with Robbo as being the most biased in the media on this issue, and one of the most powerful because she is a senior producer with ABC Ness and Current Affairs and therefore control the choice of "expert" commentators on this issue on the ABC radio and television. That is why so often throughout this affair the ABC chooses one of Hird's tame academics to give a totally biased (and usually wrong) perspective in favour of Essendon. 

One of the few times I can remember ABC News being so consistently wrong and lacking in integrity. It is a very poor reflection on its senior management. 

I agree wholeheartedly.

Tracey Holmes presents (and produces i think) The ticket, a sport show (with a sports politics focus) on on ABC news radio Sunday mornings. The show has a sports politics focus and usually has a key topic or focus.

I have listened sporadically to the show for the last 3 years and it is remarkable how often one of the lead topics (and even sub stories) is about drugs in sports. Even more remarkable is how strong the anti WADA agenda is, of both the show in general but in particular Tracey Holmes who does all the interviews.

The show is sometimes interesting but so incredibly unbalanced, with Tracey Holmes clearly holding the view that athletes are puppets and get a really, really poor deal from a corrupt system.  I suspect it goes unchecked because it is buried away on Sunday mornings and is about sport and perhaps none cares.

I think she has such a pro Hird bias because his narrative fits so neatly with her own broader narrative and anti WADA agenda that she has been pushing for years. It comes as no surprise that Hird has chosen her (as opposed to say Tony Jones or Gerard Wheatley) to do the interview.

[Sir Why You Little 34,430]

Watching Robbo just makes my skin crawl

whilst Gerard is so good

the AFL Commission needs to be replaced. 

Dill was very good on 360 but i still wonder if he should be the man in charge....Jury is out. 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,384]

But the Holmes-Hird interview will be conducted in the Ethics Centre, so I'm sure it will be fair-minded and unbiased.

[binman 37,872]

7 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

But the Holmes-Hird interview will be conducted in the Ethics Centre, so I'm sure it will be fair-minded and unbiased.

The Ethics Centre? Oh that is so brilliant. Kafke would be proud. By the by tickets are $33. I wonder if he'll take questions from the floor? (sarcasm alert).

This from the website linked above(I love that note that his intervview is on the AFL doping scandal and ethics in sport):

 

Doors open 7pm for 7.30pm start (doors lock 7.25pm). 

Former Essendon coach James Hird gives his one and only interview on the AFL doping scandal and ethics in sport.
 
While the AFL and ASADA found Essendon players innocent, an appeal by the World Anti-Doping Agency to the Court of Arbitration for Sport overturned that ruling today. It’s a controversial end to a bitter and painful saga.
 
The Ethics Centre has invited Hird to share his side of the story. After years of confidentiality, Hird will finally reflect on his departure from Essendon, the toll on the players, the investigation, speculation and what was going on at the club.
 
Join James Hird in conversation with ABC journalist Tracey Holmes at The Ethics Centre. This is an exclusive event. Seats strictly limited.

Doors open 7pm for 7.30pm sharp start. This interview will be broadcast live on ABC News 24. Doors will be locked at 7.25pm and latecomers will not be admitted

 

Edited January 13, 2016 by binman

[binman 37,872]

I also love this bit: After years of confidentiality Hird will finally reflect on his departure from Essendon.....

I guess he doesn't think strategically leaking information to Slobbo and others as breaking confidentiality. And he is going to speak on ethics? Oh my lord this is just too absurd.

 

Edited January 13, 2016 by binman

[old dee 22,819]

2 minutes ago, binman said:

I also love this bit: After years of confidentiality Hird will finally reflect on his departure from Essendon.....

I guess he doesn't think strategically linking information to Slobbo and others as breaking confidentiality. And he is going to speak on ethics? Oh my lord this is just too absurd.

 

It will be a short conversation.

[Chris 2,892]

26 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Watching Robbo just makes my skin crawl

whilst Gerard is so good

the AFL Commission needs to be replaced. 

Dill was very good on 360 but i still wonder if he should be the man in charge....Jury is out. 

Dill is a good talker but I wouldn't say his approach has been good. He is far to forgiving of the players and excusing all this due to the culture of footy clubs. He should be saying the culture was wrong and we need to change it, we need to make a culture in all football that empowers the players to take responsibility and make the right calls. Who knows it might even stop the players threatening people with chopsticks.

[Chris 2,892]

17 minutes ago, old dee said:

It will be a short conversation.

Might not get past 'Hi I'm James Hird'!

[Sir Why You Little 34,430]

6 minutes ago, Chris said:

Dill is a good talker but I wouldn't say his approach has been good. He is far to forgiving of the players and excusing all this due to the culture of footy clubs. He should be saying the culture was wrong and we need to change it, we need to make a culture in all football that empowers the players to take responsibility and make the right calls. Who knows it might even stop the players threatening people with chopsticks.

Good point

[biggestred 4,272]

http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/port-adelaide-chairman-david-koch-says-essendon-hoodwinked-afl-rivals/news-story/f8a4831cf9635b47f36bc63392cf84cb?utm_content=SocialFlow&utm_campaign=EditorialSF&utm_source=News.com.au&utm_medium=Facebook

 

Kochie let's loose

[nutbean 8,837]

3 hours ago, old dee said:

Are we surprised that Hird will do an interview with someone who will not ask the hard questions.

I do not want to hear from the Hird camp ever again.

Is there any chance he could decamp to France or Outer Mongolia any time soon. 

Steady on - haven't the French got enough problems without being lumped with Hird.

[hardtack 10,126]

17 minutes ago, Chris said:

Who knows it might even stop the players threatening people with chopsticks.

Speaking of which, whatever happened with regards to that?  Being in Sydney we don't hear too much at the best of times.