Jump to content

Discussion on recent allegations about the use of illicit drugs in football is forbidden
  • IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

    Posting unsubstantiated rumours on this website is strictly forbidden.

    Demonland has made the difficult decision to not permit this platform to be used to discuss & debate the off-field issues relating to the Melbourne Football Club including matters currently being litigated between the Club & former Board members, board elections, the issue of illicit drugs in footy, the culture at the club & the personal issues & allegations against some of our players & officials ...

    We do not take these issues & this decision lightly & of course we believe that these serious matters affecting the club we love & are so passionate about are worthy of discussion & debate & I wish we could provide a place where these matters can be discussed in a civil & respectful manner.

    However these discussions unfortunately invariably devolve into areas that may be defamatory, libelous, spread unsubstantiated rumours & can effect the mental health of those involved. Even discussion & debate of known facts or media reports can lead to finger pointing, blame & personal attacks.

    The repercussion is that these discussions can open this website, it’s owners & it’s users to legal action & may result in this website being forced to shutdown.

    Our moderating team are all volunteers & cannot moderate the forum 24/7 & as a consequence problematic content that contravenes our rules & standards may go unnoticed for some time before it can be removed.

    We reserve the right to delete posts that offend against our above policy & indeed, to ban posters who are repeat offenders or who breach our code of conduct.

    WE HAVE BUILT A FANTASTIC ONLINE COMMUNITY AT DEMONLAND OVER THE PAST 23 YEARS & WE WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS THE CLUB WE LOVE & ARE SO PASSIONATE ABOUT.

    Thank you for your continued support & understanding. Go Dees.


21st century pain


demon25

Recommended Posts

So as another top 10 draft pick packs his bag and heads for the door, I note that since the turn of the century we have had 11 Top 10 draft picks.

Not one of them has played 200 games for our club. Not one has even won our B&F

5 have indeed left the club and plied their trade elsewhere.

In fact between them they average only 89 games (albeit 7 are still current players)

Consider the Top 10 list:

Year Player Selection Games 2001 Molan 9 0 2002 2003 Sylvia* 3 163 McLean* 5 157 2004 2005 2006 2007 Morton* 4 76 2008 Watts 1 115 2009 Scully* 1 103 Trengrove 2 81 2010 2011 2012 Toumpas* 4 27 2013 Salem 9 22 2014 Petracca 2 0 Brayshaw 3 21

* denotes left the Dees and plays/played elsewhere

Whilst the jury is still out on Salem, Petracca and Brayshaw (and haven't we all got our fingers crossed on that lot), you can categorically say none of the others have really become A graders. If we are honest Sylvia has probably got the closest.

I'd be fascinated to see if that is the worst average return per player in the league over the last 15 years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So as another top 10 draft pick packs his bag and heads for the door, I note that since the turn of the century we have had 11 Top 10 draft picks.

Not one of them has played 200 games for our club. Not one has even won our B&F

5 have indeed left the club and plied their trade elsewhere.

In fact between them they average only 89 games (albeit 7 are still current players)

Consider the Top 10 list:

Year Player Selection Games 2001 Molan 9 0 2002 2003 Sylvia* 3 163 McLean* 5 157 2004 2005 2006 2007 Morton* 4 76 2008 Watts 1 115 2009 Scully* 1 103 Trengrove 2 81 2010 2011 2012 Toumpas* 4 27 2013 Salem 9 22 2014 Petracca 2 0 Brayshaw 3 21

* denotes left the Dees and plays/played elsewhere

Whilst the jury is still out on Salem, Petracca and Brayshaw (and haven't we all got our fingers crossed on that lot), you can categorically say none of the others have really become A graders. If we are honest Sylvia has probably got the closest.

I'd be fascinated to see if that is the worst average return per player in the league over the last 15 years.

I would say of the others Trengove got the closest (streets ahead of Silvia) and still has a chance to get there...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Salem and Brayshaw both have had better starts to their careers than any of the other players you mentioned when you consider the team they've come in to and how the team played before they arrived. Sylvia and Brock came into a great side.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Notice how the quality has dramatically improved since Taylor took over?

The annoying thing is, you could random sample the BigFooty phantoms and draft better than we have in the past. Law of probability says we should have just fluked at least one really good player with all our top 20 picks, but no.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The annoying thing is, you could random sample the BigFooty phantoms and draft better than we have in the past. Law of probability says we should have just fluked at least one really good player with all our top 20 picks, but no.

The irony is if we had first round picks between 6 and 12 we would have likely a better chance of picking up someone good. There is a kind of a religious dogma around the first three or four picks. Not many recruiters with an early pick would go against the unanimous consensus of the chosen three or four best rated players.

Edited by america de cali
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The annoying thing is, you could random sample the BigFooty phantoms and draft better than we have in the past. Law of probability says we should have just fluked at least one really good player with all our top 20 picks, but no.

Don't forget Prendergast never actually watched Jurrah before we drafted him. Perhaps he should have done that a bit more often. We might have fluked some.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We've held onto the best of them (Watts and Trengove), such as they are.

We've clearly improved our recruiting beyond recognition.

Our drafting nadir was 2011, with not even 50 games from the lot of them, and not a lot to show for the trading either.

Since then it has steadily improved, to the point where the Demon's 2014 draft has all seven players picked looking like possible keepers.

I'm gradually becoming less distressed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Salem and Brayshaw both have had better starts to their careers than any of the other players you mentioned when you consider the team they've come in to and how the team played before they arrived. Sylvia and Brock came into a great side.

Everybody always forgets how good Trengove was in his first few years. As much as I love Brayshaw and think he'll be a great player for us, Trengove's first season was better than Angus's. He played in a much worse team, found a lot more of the footy, and really looked like he had all the makings of a future superstar.

I really hope that he can get back on the park in 2015 and prove all his doubters wrong, because he definitely has the ability.

The annoying thing is, you could random sample the BigFooty phantoms and draft better than we have in the past. Law of probability says we should have just fluked at least one really good player with all our top 20 picks, but no.

It is sad, but this again brings up the whole Nature vs. Nurture debate. It seems the general consensus that we stuffed up both our drafting and development, and you have to wonder how our failed picks would have gone at a club like Geelong, Sydney or Hawthorn.

Edited by Good Times Grimes
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The irony is if we had first round picks between 6 and 12 we would have likely a better chance of picking up someone good. There is a kind of a religious dogma around the first three or four picks. Not many recruiters with an early pick would go against the unanimous consensus of the chosen three or four best rated players.

It's because of our squandering of very early draft picks that the whole footy world has woken up to the idea that they're not as valuable as they were once made out to be.

Exhibit A: Scully

Exhibit B: Watts

Now everyone sees that being a number one pick doesn't automatically make you a better player than the number 2 pick, and number 2 isn't better than no 3, etc.

The real value of an early pick is that you get to survey the field to maximise your chance of a good player. Not so you can grab "the star" of the draft.

No club in future will risk the cultural damage caused by tanking just to get one or two positions higher in the draft. The payoff just isn't there. But time was when it was thought well worth it.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's because of our squandering of very early draft picks that the whole footy world has woken up to the idea that they're not as valuable as they were once made out to be.

Exhibit A: Scully

Exhibit B: Watts

Now everyone sees that being a number one pick doesn't automatically make you a better player than the number 2 pick, and number 2 isn't better than no 3, etc.

The real value of an early pick is that you get to survey the field to maximise your chance of a good player. Not so you can grab "the star" of the draft.

No club in future will risk the cultural damage caused by tanking just to get one or two positions higher in the draft. The payoff just isn't there. But time was when it was thought well worth it.

Watts and Scully and you can add Nik Nat and Trengove were so so highly hyped a year to months before their drafts as automatic lock in for picks 1 and 2 that any club with those picks would have been pressured to take them. I doubt there would have been many recruiters with the courage to differ. With a later first round pick a more informed and rational choice can be made that actually best suits the need of the club. Edited by america de cali
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Watts and Scully and you can add Nik Nat and Trengove were so so highly hyped a year to months before their drafts as automatic lock in for picks 1 and 2 that any club with those picks would have been pressured to take them. I doubt there would have been many recruiters with the courage to differ. With a later first round pick a more informed and rational choice can be made that actually best suits the need of the club.

I'll never lose any sleep over Watts v Nic Nat. 4 possessions in a GF. Usually has about 6 possessions a game of which 1 or 2 are amazing. Much rather have Gawny and therefore Watts was always worth the pick. No one in the industry would have not picked one of those two. It is what it is. If you look at the top 20 of that draft there are a lot of ordinaries or busts.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Then there's 11-20: Gysberts 19 games, Blease 33 games, Tapscott 48 games, Strauss 24 games, Cook 0 games, Mitch Clark 15 games.

What else I'll say is that seeing Salem and Brayshaw play fills me with hope

Apart from Molan, the remaining top 10 picks were not shock selections. The ones that really sting are the ones you've mentioned above, excluding Clark who was crippled with injury.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So as another top 10 draft pick packs his bag and heads for the door, I note that since the turn of the century we have had 11 Top 10 draft picks.

Not one of them has played 200 games for our club. Not one has even won our B&F

5 have indeed left the club and plied their trade elsewhere.

In fact between them they average only 89 games (albeit 7 are still current players)

Consider the Top 10 list:

Year Player Selection Games 2001 Molan 9 0 2002 2003 Sylvia* 3 163 McLean* 5 157 2004 2005 2006 2007 Morton* 4 76 2008 Watts 1 115 2009 Scully* 1 103 Trengrove 2 81 2010 2011 2012 Toumpas* 4 27 2013 Salem 9 22 2014 Petracca 2 0 Brayshaw 3 21

* denotes left the Dees and plays/played elsewhere

Whilst the jury is still out on Salem, Petracca and Brayshaw (and haven't we all got our fingers crossed on that lot), you can categorically say none of the others have really become A graders. If we are honest Sylvia has probably got the closest.

I'd be fascinated to see if that is the worst average return per player in the league over the last 15 years.

Kind of a moot point isn't it? 200 games? The fact that they would have had to play more or less every game since 2005 to reach 200 games. That means only Sylvia, Mclean and Molan could have reached it.

I think we've got a good lot in Salem, Petracca and Brayshaw. I'd be surprised if one of them didn't go on to be a champion of our club.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kind of a moot point isn't it? 200 games? The fact that they would have had to play more or less every game since 2005 to reach 200 games. That means only Sylvia, Mclean and Molan could have reached it.

I think we've got a good lot in Salem, Petracca and Brayshaw. I'd be surprised if one of them didn't go on to be a champion of our club.

I cant believe Toumpas didnt play 200 games for us before he left, what a total bust!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I cant believe Toumpas didnt play 200 games for us before he left, what a total bust!

Maybe not a total bust. One of the picks from the mega deal (Howe & Toumpas) was given to GC in exchange for picks 3 and 10. Let's see what we get there and if we get an instant performer. We know that Toumpas has done basically nothing in 3 years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe not a total bust. One of the picks from the mega deal (Howe & Toumpas) was given to GC in exchange for picks 3 and 10. Let's see what we get there and if we get an instant performer. We know that Toumpas has done basically nothing in 3 years.

Yep and from my memory never got a BOG even at Casey.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So as another top 10 draft pick packs his bag and heads for the door, I note that since the turn of the century we have had 11 Top 10 draft picks.

Not one of them has played 200 games for our club. Not one has even won our B&F

5 have indeed left the club and plied their trade elsewhere.

In fact between them they average only 89 games (albeit 7 are still current players)

Consider the Top 10 list:

Year Player Selection Games 2001 Molan 9 0 2002 2003 Sylvia* 3 163 McLean* 5 157 2004 2005 2006 2007 Morton* 4 76 2008 Watts 1 115 2009 Scully* 1 103 Trengrove 2 81 2010 2011 2012 Toumpas* 4 27 2013 Salem 9 22 2014 Petracca 2 0 Brayshaw 3 21

* denotes left the Dees and plays/played elsewhere

Whilst the jury is still out on Salem, Petracca and Brayshaw (and haven't we all got our fingers crossed on that lot), you can categorically say none of the others have really become A graders. If we are honest Sylvia has probably got the closest.

I'd be fascinated to see if that is the worst average return per player in the league over the last 15 years.

Why is the jury out on Salem and Brayshaw? They are going to be gun players for the mighty Demons.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe not a total bust. One of the picks from the mega deal (Howe & Toumpas) was given to GC in exchange for picks 3 and 10. Let's see what we get there and if we get an instant performer. We know that Toumpas has done basically nothing in 3 years.

I was referring to the OP bemoaning all of these Top 10 draft picks not playing 200 games for us. Toumpas had only been here for 3 years hence his initial arguments were ridiculously misguided and mathematically impossible...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    DEPTH CHARGE by Whispering Jack

    The jubilation on the coach’s face as he danced a celebratory jig by the playing bench after the final siren sounded to record his team’s four-point victory over the Demons when the teams last met, said it all.    On that rainy Friday night at the Adelaide Oval, Ken Hinkley’s young midfield secured much more than four points on offer. The victory over one of the big dogs of the competition after a succession of wins over some of its lesser lights gave his team respect and validation fo

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 5

    TRAINING: Monday 25th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Demon Dynasty & Kev Martin were trackside at Gosch's Paddock today to bring you their observations from training. DEMON DYNASTY'S TRAINING OBSERVATIONS Kade Chandler's left knee heavily strapped. BBB, Spargs & Jake Lever also in rehab group. Jake Bowey solo running separate kicking/sprint/agility drills. Super fine morning / early arvo at Gosch's for the boys to blow out some cobwebs. Choco initially had the light duties / rehab group

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    HIBERNATING by KC from Casey

    When they locked up the rooms for summer at the end of last year’s football season, the rooms gathered cobwebs, the atmosphere became dense and the place developed a sleepy feel. They opened up the rooms to let Casey out to play on Sunday but the team was still hibernating and they missed the bulk of the opening quarter. By the time they worked out it was game on, their opponents from Box Hill had accumulated five goals and, if the game wasn’t over, it might as well have been. For a se

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head. The Demons have now won nine of their last ten encounters with the other result, a draw.     And like a fork, it was the multi-pronged options that Melbourne had all across the ground.  It certainly helped that Hawthorn

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports 8

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in the Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out?

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 262

    PODCAST: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Monday, 25th March @ 8:30pm. Join George, Binman & I as we analyse the Demons victory at the MCG against the Hawks in the Round 02. You questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human. Listen & Chat

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 46

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 50

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 357

    GAMEDAY: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    It's Game Day and after mixed results in the first two weeks of the season the Demons have the opportunity to capitalise on their good form last week when they take on the Hawks at the MCG today.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 437
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!
  • Podcast 

  • Podcast 

  • Podcast Stream 


    Open Stream in
    New Window
        TuneIn    Opens in New Tab
  • Support Demonland  



  • 2021 Premiership  

  • Social Media 

  • Non MFC Games  

    NON-MFC: Round 03

    Discussion of all the other games that don't involve the Demons in Round 03 ... READ MORE

    Demonland | Round 03

  • Match Preview      

    DEPTH CHARGE by Whispering Jack

    The jubilation on the coach’s face as he danced a celebratory jig by the playing bench after the final siren sounded to record his team’s four-point victory over the Demons when the teams last met, said it all ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 27

  • Latest Podcast      

    PODCAST: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The boys dissected the clinical thrashing of Hawks praising the immense performance of Christian Petracca whilst lamenting the injury toll to our defensive unit ... LISTEN

    Demonland | March 26

  • Training  

    Monday, 25th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Demon Dynasty & Kev Martin were trackside at Gosch's Paddock today to bring you their observations from training ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • Casey Report      

    HIBERNATING by KC from Casey

    When they locked up the rooms for summer at the end of last year’s football season, the rooms gathered cobwebs, the atmosphere became dense and the place developed a sleepy feel. They opened up the rooms to let Casey out to play on Sunday but the team was still hibernating and they missed the bulk of the opening quarter ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • PreGame      

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head out on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out? ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 28

  • Match Report      

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Post Game      

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Votes      

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Game Day      

    GAMEDAY: Round 02 vs Hawthorn

    It's Game Day and after mixed results in the first two weeks of the season the Demons have the opportunity to capitalise on their good form last week when they take on the Hawks at the MCG today ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Training  

    Friday, 22nd March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatcher Kev Martin and I attended the Captain's Run at Gosch's Paddock on this lovely sunny morning to bring you the following observations from the training session ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 22

  • Training  

    Tuesday, 19th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin & Walking Civil War attended Tuesday morning's training session at Gosch's Paddock to bring you the following observations ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 19

  • Training  

    Saturday, 16th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin and Dee Zephyr wandered down to Gosch's Paddock on Saturday morning to bring you their observations from the Captain's Run in the lead up to Sunday's Round One match against the Bulldogs ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 16

  • Farewell  

    Angus Brayshaw Retires

    After 167 games including the drought breaking Premiership Angus Brayshaw has made the heart breaking decision to medically retire from football as a result of a series of serious head knocks over his nearly decade of footy. We wish Gus all the best and he'll always be a hero at Demonland ... READ MORE

    Demonland | February 22

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Koltyn Tholstrup Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club’s newest recruit Koltyn Tholstrup to have a chat about his journey from the farm to the Demons, his first few weeks of preseason training, which Dees have impressed him on the track and his aspirations of playing Round 1 ... LISTEN

    Demonland | December 14

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Jason Taylor Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club's National Recruitment Manager Jason Taylor to have a chat about our Trade and Draft period, our newest recruits, our recent recruits who have yet to debut as well as those father son prospects on the horizon ... LISTEN

    Demonland | November 27

  • Next Match 

    .

    Round 03

       vs   

    Saturday 30th March 2024
    @ 07:30pm (AO)

  • MFC Forum  

  • Match Previews & Reports  

  • Training Forum  

  • AFLW Forum  

  • 2024 Player Sponsorship

  • Topics

  • Injury List  


      PLAYER INJURY LENGTH
    Jake Lever Knee Test
    Clayton Oliver Hand Test
    Oliver Sestan Concussion Test
    Steven May Ribs 1 Week
    Lachie Hunter Calf 1 Week
    Daniel Turner Hip 2-3 Weeks
    Charlie Spargo Achilles 2-4 Weeks
    Shane McAdam Hamstring 3-5 Weeks
    Jake Bowey Shoulder 7 Weeks
    Jake Melksham ACL 12-14 Weeks
    Joel Smith Suspension TBA

  • Player of the Year  


        PLAYER VOTES
    1 Christian Petracca 27
    2 Steven May 25
    3 Max Gawn 21
    4 Jack Viney 20
    5 Bayley Fritsch 19
    6 Clayton Oliver 18
    7 Christian Salem 12
    8 Blake Howes 11
    9 Jack Billings 10
    9 Alex Neal-Bullen 10

        FULL TABLE
  • Demonland Interviews 



  • Upcoming Events 

×
×
  • Create New...