Post Match Discussion - Round 23

[Dr. Mubutu 855]

The crowd was around what I expected, but I still think it's disappointing that barely a fifth of people who paid for memberships (even though membership numbers aren't very reliable indicators these days) end up coming for the final home game, for whatever reason it may be. That's a lot who've dropped off and I think those who are buying memberships should do so with attending every game in mind. Given our recent history no one should be appalled at how the season has panned out.

I live in regional Queensland. It would cost >$500 to attend a game. Forgive me if I don't attend a round 23 slopfest.

[What 18,810]

FWIW Jones, Vince and Viney in the team of the week

LMFAO at Sam Reid being in there but no Jesse Hogan

[Devil is in the Detail 883]

LMFAO at Sam Reid being in there but no Jesse Hogan

Thought that was funny. But he did kick 3.3 and had 11 marks 25 disposals.

Maybe not that funny.

[Little Richard 6,265]

Thought that was funny. But he did kick 3.3 and had 11 marks 25 disposals.

Maybe not that funny.

Nope, just selection based on a statistically better performance.

[Axis of Bob 11,836]

It's funny but my Port mate loved [Newton] as a contested ball winner, said he was kept out by strong midfield but reminded him of another Boak.

We haven't really seen this from him yet.

Newton is a surprisingly good stoppage player, from what I've seen, and regularly kicked stoppage goals in the VFL. The problem is that doesn't appear to be a good enough runner to play as a midfielder, which limits one of his strengths.

He's nothing like Boak, though. Boak is a really good anaerobic runner, which is his main strength. It appears to be Newton's main weakness.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

It would be more his opponent running away from him...the way forward lines are structured these days he doesn't fit at either end of the ground.

I agree Rjay. There might only be a few match ups that suit that also are mostly only capable of leading on a straight line most of time. Maybe Cloke!

[jnrmac 20,104]

Newton is a surprisingly good stoppage player, from what I've seen, and regularly kicked stoppage goals in the VFL. The problem is that doesn't appear to be a good enough runner to play as a midfielder, which limits one of his strengths.

He's nothing like Boak, though. Boak is a really good anaerobic runner, which is his main strength. It appears to be Newton's main weakness.

Think you'll find that's not right...

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

I've only seen 3/4 of the replay but my impression is that Newton is soft and runs hard one way. Great, he got three goals. Huzzah.

Loved Stretch's game - linking, running, moving where he should when he should. Small, but tackles as hard as he can and doesn't shirk the issue. Sure with his possessions. Does everything that toump should do but doesn't.

Viney needs a mate - ANB next year perhaps?

With two more mids from trade week and petracca we'll have power and depth in the midfield. Bugger me.

Losing vanders and Kemp is really hurting us forward.

Bang on. Agreed.

May have been played as a mid / forward and under instruction to hit the contested ball at HF front and square when the oportunity presented whilst also offering an outside option through the middle on the clearance or turnover.

Having said that I could be totally wrong and you both may be right as I didnt particularly watch him closely during the match. Just saying, he may have been playing a role where he was asked to get free and provide these options mid & forward.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

I get that argument

Most disappointingly was that it had to be R23 against GWS as that's a pretty big slap in the face to our members from the AFL.

I recall..I think it was when the 2013 fixture was released, the club was vocal with disdain for the AFL afthasn'ty scheduled a home game at Etihad when they had specifically requested not to be given one. However we were quiet the next year when we got another Etihad home game and I'm guessing it had something to do with the AFL handout we received beforehand. So you can imagine the club feels at the AFL's mercy now when it comes to scheduling, so I'm not sure if we can avoid another game there next year

Quite possibly JR but the supporters aren't beholden to it (the AFL). If they schedule a similar match up with similar timing next year I doubt they would get anything other than another record low crowd. As long as they are happy to keep subsidising the loss (through further handouts) then you could well be correct. But I suspect a $250,000 loss on this match (as I heard someone claim on media) might get them sitting up and taking a bit more notice than something like 2/5ths of that if we managed our 22k (approx) average.

Crowds were down generally there in 2014/15 approx 15% vs the average also, suggesting it's still very much on the nose with other clubs' supporters also.

Edited September 8, 2015 by Rusty Nails

[DeeSpencer 25,723]

It's funny but my Port mate loved him as a contested ball winner, said he was kept out by strong midfield but reminded him of another Boak.

We haven't really seen this from him yet.

What I like about Newton is he seems good enough at contested ball to play in the guts, good enough by foot to play on the wing and smart enough in space and knows where the goals are enough that he can play forward. He has most of the skills and ability to play as a depth rotation guy. With the interchange cap going down that will be even more important. Only 22.5 rotations per quarter means you'll need to rotate between spots frequently.

Unfortunately he doesn't look like an AFL level runner yet so he can't play to the best of his ability in any position.

Hopefully he learnt this year that he wasn't just unlucky at Port and needing an opportunity but that he needs to be a lot fitter to have a long career.

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

Just watched the replay last night, apologies if this has been covered in this thread already but one of the commentators said Salem had "second year blues" and was "better in attack than on half-back".

Who the hell was this?

Do these idiot commentators actually WATCH the footy at all? Salem was injured for most of the year, how the hell can you infer from that that he has second year blues?

Also, he's clearly been a much better performer, and much more important to the side, when he's played his role on half-back.

One of them also called a possession by Mumford. I lol'd.

In other news, I love Hogan. So very, very much.

That commentary team seriously sounded like a bunch of guys at the local pub......were they all drinking? So many times didnt have a clue who had the ball, even calling JKH Garlett at one point. God it was bad.

[Axis of Bob 11,836]

Think you'll find that's not right...

He certainly plays like he has good anaerobic running ability. His ability to repeat sprints is really good and probably one of the reasons he's as influential as he is.

I'd be interested to see your information on his poor anaerobic running. I haven't see figures, but I'd be super surprised if that was the case.

[Adam The God 30,274]

He certainly plays like he has good anaerobic running ability. His ability to repeat sprints is really good and probably one of the reasons he's as influential as he is.

I'd be interested to see your information on his poor anaerobic running. I haven't see figures, but I'd be super surprised if that was the case.

I would have thought repeat sprints would come under aerobic capacity and fitness...

[Little Richard 6,265]

He certainly plays like he has good anaerobic running ability. His ability to repeat sprints is really good and probably one of the reasons he's as influential as he is.

I'd be interested to see your information on his poor anaerobic running. I haven't see figures, but I'd be super surprised if that was the case.

What is analrobic running?

[daisycutter 29,621]

What is analrobic running?

https://runneracademy.com/aerobic-vs-anaerobic/

[Axis of Bob 11,836]

Without going into it too much, repeat sprints are anaerobic. It's about performing at, or near, your peak intensity. Like running a 400m, or running a set of repeat 60m sprints.

Aerobic is about lower intensity, but longer duration activity. Like running a marathon, or doing the Tour de France.

[spalding 1,128]

I thought this week was encouraging for our young/new guys and future depth (ie replacements for M Jones, Bail, Riley, Terlich, etc)

I didn't think that Newton, Michie and possibly JKH offered much for the future, but they all showed something this week.

Newton - I am still concerned about his speed and endurance (especially when chasing), but more encouraging than his goals was the fact that he was in the right place quite a few times when the ball spilled from a forward line marking contest. A couple of his points came from roving the packs for quick snaps. Has a high goal/game average so could be a reasonable HFF/occasional midfielder if he can improve his defensive actions.

Michie - some really good quick hands gave us some good clearances. ran to good places and was clean around the ground. His game reminded me Sam Mitchell (obviously a poor man's version) Pace and defensive pressure is again where he needs to improve, but there might be something worth keeping to complement Dom Tyson and to be ready for the post Jones/Vince midfield

JKH - I worry that he is not quick enough, but last year he had really clean hands which gave him some time. Has been a bit fumbly this year (confidence?) which has reduced his impact.However It was really noticeable at the game on Sunday how hard he worked to make position. He took a couple of the marks in the last quarter where he sprinted 70 metres to give and option. Given our issues with quick ball movement guys who work this hard to provide an option are keepers for me.

Harmes - moreso than the marks were the attack on the ball and player. He won a couple of contests that he had no right to. Bulk him up a bit, and a bit of work on his disposal and he and VDB could be Freo style big midfielders who can go forward and take a grab and kick a goal.

White - was more noticeable on the replay than the game, but he looked like a pretty decent footballer. Good one on one, got to the right places and was good by foot. Could be a good servant.

I think Stretch is great. Works really hard without the ball, tackles hard despite his size, and doesn't panic with the ball but takes a bit of time to take a good option.

Although it was a dead rubber, the game was a good mix of contest and ball movement for us. Really feel like we are on the verge of a 1987 style period where a whole lot of kids come through together. When all the kids have played 100 games together we will be a decent chance. I have really been emotionally invested in Watts/Garland/Howe and Grimes, but I don't think they are our future and should be moved on quickly so we can get better kids to bring in with the likes of Hogan, Brayshaw, Petracca, McDonald, Gawn, Viney - plus all the others

[spalding 1,128]

I forgot Salem - absolute lock for All Australian off the half back in the next few years when we are closer to the right end of the ladder.

[Chris 2,892]

Without going into it too much, repeat sprints are anaerobic. It's about performing at, or near, your peak intensity. Like running a 400m, or running a set of repeat 60m sprints.

Aerobic is about lower intensity, but longer duration activity. Like running a marathon, or doing the Tour de France.

Plenty of anaerobic going on in the thighs of the cyclists in the tour.

I comes down to the cycling of oxygen around the body, aerobic is when the blood is supplying enough oxygen, anaerobic is when you push past what the blood can supply and your body works without the oxygen supply from the blood, in very simple terms.

Think of it like this, if you sprint flat out you will get puffed, while you are sprinting and still not fully puffed it is aerobic as your body can keep up with your oxygen supplies, if you keep sprinting hard you get puffed and your heart rate goes nuts as it is trying to keep the oxygen flowing but cant keep up, this is going into anaerobic. Repeat sprints would go into anaerobic reasonably quickly.

Sustained exertion on one muscle, like the thighs on a climb in the tour would as well, but while they aren't exerting as much on the flat it would be aerobic.

Any sport scientist types feel free to correct.

[bing181 9,246]

Without going into it too much, repeat sprints are anaerobic. It's about performing at, or near, your peak intensity. Like running a 400m, or running a set of repeat 60m sprints.

Aerobic is about lower intensity, but longer duration activity. Like running a marathon, or doing the Tour de France.

Agree - but plenty of anaerobic intensity in the Tour de France. Just not continuously.

(Also plenty of anaerobic in the flat stages ... watch the last 10 or 20 k of any flat stage, they're on the limit the whole time. Though you also have to take into account wind, and having been over a few of those flat stages, they ain't flat!)

Edited September 9, 2015 by bing181

[chook fowler 19,459]

I forgot Salem - absolute lock for All Australian off the half back in the next few years when we are closer to the right end of the ladder.

I just love watching Salem. His poise, balance and decision making is first class. Rarely turns it over.

A very clean footballer. I think Stretch has the same attributes but will take a bit longer to develop his body and endurance.

Very excited to see what Peteacca has to offer - I bet it's plenty.

[bing181 9,246]

Wondering how long we can keep this thread going ... till next March?

[Chris 2,892]

Wondering how long we can keep this thread going ... till next March?

It is technically post round 23 discussion until the first round next year so I don't see why not.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I'm managing to watch the replay from overseas.

It simply involves someone at home setting up a laptop with an iPad in front of it and watching via FaceTime.

The quality is about as good as the AFL app so not too bad.

[Axis of Bob 11,836]

............

Thank you for enlightening me as to what aerobic activity and anaerobic activity are. It certainly has made me question how I am perceived .

Anyway, not that it's important, I think that you could argue that everything contains an element of aerobic/anaerobic because the systems have evolved to complement each other. Just because there is a small amount (at times) of anaerobic activity on the Tour de France, it seems unlikely that the primary fitness required of a road cyclist in an event covering over 3000km over the course of 3 weeks is anaerobic.

But the point of the discussion is that the anaerobic capacity of Boak is shown in his ability to outlast opponents in sprints, allowing him to get on the end of long chains of play before his direct opponent. Newton shows no ability to run it the way that Boak does, and it's a major weakness of his.