Post Match Discussion - Round 9

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Except Jetta and T Mac bust their asses every week for the jumper.

Watts hasnt busted his has once in 100 games.

And there's the rub hogan.

You can't afford to have even 1 player in the team who "chooses" when it's his time to go or not to go HH, let alone more than one.

Each player has to look each other in the eye in the change rooms before a match and commit to the oath of giving everything to the contest on the day. I can only imagine what it would be like to know even one of you is probably not going to commit when it's his turn at this level and will likely let the team down in a clutch 50/50 contest by hanging back.

And once you have one who is sitting back waiting for others to do the grunt work when it's required.....guess what happens? It's like a severe strain of the flu but with a massive incubation period. It might not catch on at first....but eventually everyone is catching it!

Recipe for disaster if left to fester! I can only hope Roos applies an antidote before it turns septic. If not i fear we will also lose the next lot of Roos anointed recruits to this ugly strain as well! And if that's the case you can forget about any Roos (or Goodwin) lead turnaround. We will be in the wilderness for decades to come.

In my opinion this is Roos biggest challenge this year. If he lets it spread we are gawn as a club.

[Nasher 33,615]

You reap what you sow!

Prime example below we have 4 picks in top 20 & yet 6 yrs later we have 3 players gone & 1 who may never play again!

Freo have a pick 20 who is an A grader now....

Get real people we butchered our picks for years & expect Roos to fix in 2 drafts!

I'm positive as I see the players we have drafted in the last 2 yrs will turn us into the team who will play finals...

2009 draft

Priority 1 Tom Scully Dandenong Stingrays TAC Cup Melbourne

1 2 Jack Trengove Sturt SANFL Melbourne

1 3 Dustin Martin Bendigo Pioneers TAC Cup Richmond

1 4 Anthony Morabito Peel WAFL Fremantle

1 5 Ben Cunnington Geelong Falcons TAC Cup North Melbourne

1 6 Gary Rohan Geelong Falcons TAC Cup Sydney

1 7 Brad Sheppard East Fremantle WAFL West Coast

1 8 John Butcher Gippsland Power TAC Cup Port Adelaide

1 9 Andrew Moore Eastern Ranges TAC Cup Port Adelaide

1 10 Jake Melksham Calder Cannons TAC Cup Essendon

1 11 Jordan Gysberts Eastern Ranges TAC Cup Melbourne

1 12 Kane Lucas East Fremantle WAFL Carlton

1 13 Daniel Talia Calder Cannons TAC Cup Adelaide

1 14 Lewis Jetta Swan Districts WAFL Sydney

1 15 Christian Howard Glenelg SANFL Western Bulldogs

1 16 Jasper McMillan-Pittard Geelong Falcons TAC Cup Port Adelaide

1 17 Daniel Menzel Central District SANFL Geelong

2 18 Luke Tapscott North Adelaide SANFL Melbourne

2 19 Benjamin Griffiths Eastern Ranges TAC Cup Richmond

2 20 Nathan Fyfe Claremont

Like every draft, that draft was a real mixture. The first "star" was taken at pick 14, the next at 20. Additionally, I count 4 players who are perpetually injured (JT, Morabito, Griffiths, Menzel), 1 player on the brink (Moore) and 5 clear duds, who are already gone or near enough to (Butcher, Gysberts, Lucas, Howard and Tapscott). That's 10 players in the top 20 (i.e. half) unlikely to make it to 100 games. I highly doubt Port were expecting to get far more out of Jasper Pittard than John Butcher. Freo would have been wetting themselves at getting Morabito, and considered Fyfe an added bonus.

We could just as easily have picked Morabito and Butcher in that draft given the rankings at the time. At least Scully enabled us to end up with Jesse Hogan.

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

Like every draft, that draft was a real mixture. The first "star" was taken at pick 14, the next at 20. Additionally, I count 4 players who are perpetually injured (JT, Morabito, Griffiths, Menzel), 1 player on the brink (Moore) and 5 clear duds, who are already gone or near enough to (Butcher, Gysberts, Lucas, Howard and Tapscott). That's 10 players in the top 20 (i.e. half) unlikely to make it to 100 games. I highly doubt Port were expecting to get far more out of Jasper Pittard than John Butcher. Freo would have been wetting themselves at getting Morabito, and considered Fyfe an added bonus.

We could just as easily have picked Morabito and Butcher in that draft given the rankings at the time. At least Scully enabled us to end up with Jesse Hogan.

You can add Scully as a clear dud for productivity Vs hype generated and salary. Rohan and Talia look like solid 10 year players with more improvement likely. Shame our skinny dark horse was Gysberts and not Fyfe. I read that Fyfe was rated as a third round pick. And if Trengove can't get back with a vengeance he sadly has to be labeled as a dud also. Edited May 31, 2015 by america de cali

[Nasher 33,615]

You can add Scully as a clear dud for productivity Vs hype generated and salary. Rohan and Talia look like solid 10 year players with more improvement likely. Shame our skinny dark horse was Gysberts and not Fyfe. I read that Fyfe was rated as a third round pick. And if Trengove can't get back with a vengeance he sadly has to be labeled as a dud also.

Scully is a clear AFL player. No doubt not the star we thought or GWS thought, but a player.

If the foot finishes Trengove, I'll never put him in the dud category. He doesn't belong there any more than Morabito does.

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

Scully is a clear AFL player. No doubt not the star we thought or GWS thought, but a player.

If the foot finishes Trengove, I'll never put him in the dud category. He doesn't belong there any more than Morabito does.

So using your criteria you wouldn't put Tapscott in the dud category too? He had some serious injuries that ruined his pace and kicking.

As for Scully, there are many 3rd rounders and above plus rookies that are doing a better job than him at the moment. If it wasn't for the his No 1 status, big contract and general loss of face he would have been delisted already. Similar reasons Watts is still getting a regular game.

Edited May 31, 2015 by america de cali

[dazzledavey36 54,889]

So using your criteria you wouldn't put Tapscott in the dud category too? He had some serious injuries that ruined his pace and kicking.

As for Scully, there are many 3rd rounders and above plus rookies that are doing a better job than him at the moment. If it wasn't for the his No 1 status, big contract and general loss of face he would have been delisted already. Similar reasons Watts is still getting a regular game.

Your being way too harsh on Trengove.

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

Your being way too harsh on Trengove.

I don't think so. I hope he gets back on the park and delivers. But he was a coin toss for number one pick. These top picks are given an enormous amount of patience and latitude by the football gods. Many budding careers have been ruined by injury but because they were lower draft picks they get labeled as duds anyway and no one cares. If Fyfe had Trengove's injury a few seasons ago, he would be just another dud in the big picture.

Edited May 31, 2015 by america de cali

[Dr. Gonzo 24,214]

Scully is a clear AFL player. No doubt not the star we thought or GWS thought, but a player.

If the foot finishes Trengove, I'll never put him in the dud category. He doesn't belong there any more than Morabito does.

Dud pick not dud player

[Demon trucker 1,800]

A few wrong selections, bail out its not enough to just play your role must be more attacking, we just did not apply our tackles more a team like ours can't have less then 80 tackles, that's what won as the first qtr , and last week.

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

Interesting watching the North/Collingwood game. North fell apart in the same style we did, but they did manage a fightback before the situation became hopeless. The game only swung back into Collingwood's favour after the rain came tumbling down. There just is no fight in our game, only collective [censored] of pants and no one seem to know where the answers lie.

Edited May 31, 2015 by america de cali

[Dockett 32 1,239]

Its unfortunate that Dom Tyson hasn't hit his straps yet. I think if they can get him up to speed and with the improvement of Brayshaw we are a chance to get the midfield up a gear. Lack of depth still a problem here.

[praha 11,240]

Interesting watching the North/Collingwood game. North fell apart in the same style we did, but they did manage a fightback before the situation became hopeless. The game only swung back into Collingwood's favour after the rain came tumbling down. There just is no fight in our game, only collective [censored] of pants and no one seem to know where the answers lie.

Collingwood went on an amazing run. 9 straight goals i think? Down 38 and then never looked like losing, even when North hit the front again.

What I noticed about Collingwood and even North at times is just an undeniable endeavour, true team play. Melbourne imo has far from the worst list in the league -- I'd put as above the Blues, Lions, Saints, Bulldogs (yes), Suns -- yet as Roos points out, once players loose that mental toughness in a game it's all about, "Well, we're going to lose, I'm going to play for myself now". No team capitulates quite like we do. Outscore 100 to 20 in 2 quarters of football, most of it coming in 1 quarter. That is something we should have left behind in 2013. Evidently, it's still present and has been present in two games this year. The Hawthorn game doesn't count because if we let them get on a role of dominance the same way GWS and Port did then we'd have lost by 200 points. Both GWS and Port started the game in 1st gear then went to 5th gear while Melbourne stays stuck in Neutral. Do you notice that we're not even that bad when we do actually get the ball in those patches? We just CAN'T. GET. THE. BALL. They chase and ball watch. They literally lose the intent to win the ball: can't hold tackles, can't string together possessions, can't get into space.

We saw how hard they ran against Richmond and the Bulldogs. Our problem is right in the middle of the ground: unless the midfield plays 100% of the game at 100%, then the team completely breaks down.

Our best is still good, but our bad is completely and utterly inept.

When are we going to turn a corner?

Edited May 31, 2015 by praha

[Nasher 33,615]

Dud pick not dud player

Yes - I find it very hard to criticise picks when the outcome was unforseeable. The Gysberts, Cook, Strauss picks are fair game, but I'll never blame BP for the Trengove pick.

[beelzebub 23,364]

Our problem in a nutshell. Need 3-4 quality mids and change out half a dozen spuds that inhabit the the paddock elsewhere.

Cheque book time and also we need to play just as dirty as all those other clubs doing deals behind backs and under table. Melbourne is too nice. Mongrel starts from the head. Time to get real serious , thats if youre serious about winning..and getting any silverware. Only silver atm is our tail !!

[old dee 23,788]

Another Monday another belting on the weekend.

Oh Hum the more things change the more they stay the same.

Tired is the only word that comes to mind.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

The most frustrating thing for me is seeing a team full of pressure and tackling and EFFORT last week, and then not seeing it this week.

I just don't get how the attitude changes so quickly. It's not like we got more or less skilled all of a sudden.

[What 18,810]

The most frustrating thing for me is seeing a team full of pressure and tackling and EFFORT last week, and then not seeing it this week.

Well we did see it for the first 40 minutes

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

Well we did see it for the first 40 minutes

lol, yeah, and then it completely vanished.

I just don't get it.

Edit: I miss Kent. He always has a real go.

Edited June 1, 2015 by Choke

[Dr. Mubutu 851]

Actually, a couple of years ago it was 70 points

<video censored>

This loss was definitely more deflating than that one, but I feel nowhere near as bad afterwards. (That perhaps shows how low we'd ebbed).

IIRC, that was on Easter Sunday 2013. I was still baying for blood by the Thursday. Given their trajectory since then, the result shouldn't be surprising, but it still smarts. Start of the worst 3-week run I've experienced as a supporter. (Yes, that includes 186.)

[dpositive 1,665]

If I was the coach, I'd just say to Jack, listen mate, you're playing the rest of the year at Casey and you're going to be traded or delisted at the end of the year unless you spend the next 9 months in the gym and doing nothing but full contact boxing and roman greco style wrestling to learn about physicality, I wouldn't entertain the idea of even considering him for selection until he has at least 8-10 kg of additional muscle mass on his frame and he can actually take down someone the size of Jarman Impey in a tackle..

Would like to agree but why cant we keep him playing but emphasise the boxing wrestling training to build up the core muscle structure that appears to be lacking. FGS these are full time professional footballers he should be able to develop his physique without sacrificing his skill. He is still a valuable player but even Keith Greig bulked up when they won the flag. Perhaps Watts is just a part of the team, perhaps they all need to harden up. I have been saying intensity at training might be increased . Perhaps thats part of the whole. I have heard stories constantly from premiership teams that there was competition for spots in the team and they would inhure each other at training playing so hard to get into the team. The match day was just another part of the game plan.

Might have to change my name from dpositive to dambivalent to reflect the players approach

[dpositive 1,665]

Is there anything stopping us from creating a human pyramid in our last line of defence? We could pay Howe $600k to line up from the goal square and take species at the apex of the pyramid.

I'd also like to see a set play where our players army roll at a fwd50 stoppage. Take them by surprise.

This really made me laugh

Love your thinking

Distraction is a handy cure for most ills

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Another Monday another belting on the weekend.

Oh Hum the more things change the more they stay the same.

Tired is the only word that comes to mind.

Lol OD

I'm not sure how I would handle us winning more than the odd game every month or 2. Its become so ingrained in the Demon culture. Im starting to think even the players themselves cant get over the mental hurdle of more than one win at a time.

Roos might be well advised to employ the services of a hypnotist!

[poita 3,902]

Aside from tackling / shepherding / chasing / etc, tasks which always seem to be optional for this group of players, it simply amazes me that a group of fairly seasoned footballers cannot get their hands on the football when the pressure is on. Every other team has players that are capable of racking up possessions, meaning that they are at least stopping the opposition from taking the ball forward and scoring.

Our leading possession getter is (unsurprisingly) Nathan Jones, who rates 65th for average possessions. Cross is next at 96. Even Carlton, for all their flaws, have 6 players in the top 100 for average possessions.

When Port started scoring late in the second quarter we should have pushed players back, maintained possession for a few minutes and soaked up some time. But we couldn't get our hands on the football at any stage.

[Wilson7 2,670]

AFLCA Votes

Melbourne v Port Adelaide
9 Travis Boak (PA)
8 Robbie Gray (PA)
7 Brad Ebert (PA)
3 Angus Monfries (PA)
2 Ollie Wines (PA)
1 Colin Garland (Melb)

[old dee 23,788]

AFLCA Votes

Melbourne v Port Adelaide

9 Travis Boak (PA)

8 Robbie Gray (PA)

7 Brad Ebert (PA)

3 Angus Monfries (PA)

2 Ollie Wines (PA)

1 Colin Garland (Melb)

How come Toumpas is not on that list?

Oh sorry we are talking about the top six not the bottom six.