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There is zero doubt that it is racist. Zero.

"Unless it is well-founded" are you kidding? Think of the decades of research abotu bias, unconscious bias, racism and Australia. you are aware of this literature, aren't you? Because, it would be pretty daft to be talking about a subject in an unfounded way, wouldn't it? I'd be concerned about your thinking on this issue were you to be speaking from an - dare Ai say it - ignorant position.

The "it can't be and if you think so, maybe you are" argument is, well, it is the equivalent of "I know you are, I said you are, but what am I?" My god. That sort of dodgy rhetoric is best left out, don't you think?

And the war dance! Darling, sweetheart. Seriously. Who cares about a war dance. It is a dance FFS. A dance, from a man regularly racially abused, on the round that celebrates his race - a race that has been pushed into what will probably be a fatal decline. And we are a bit sensitive about hurt feelings of the crowd? Precious much? Maybe missing the point just a little?

Lewis is a sniper but doesn't get booed.

Fletcher is a spiteful jerk, but doesn't get booed.

Selwood plays for frees constantly but doesn't get booed.

Lindsay Thomas dives and gets booed. Whoops.

There is no doubt this is about race, fueled by race, denied because of race and bubbling along because of race. Just got to get big enough to admit it.

Amen to this.

I would also add, for those who think that calling someone an ape/monkey is fine/excusable that these sorts of comments have a history, with a lot of old "common science" pointing to the physical traits of indigenous people as being more primitive/less evolved, none of which ever held any water and were essentially authorised racism. When someone says these things, it is a re-application of these horrible views. Ignorance on behalf of the person saying it is not an excuse.

Edited by WAClark
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Radio said something different during half-time break. Nevertheless, good on him. If people were booing me for whatever reason, i'd come out firing too.

and I to.

he's a champ because he won't lay down & die.

we could do with a really big dose of his attitudes, up in our northern stand... maybe we could line them all up & Goodes'y could give some to them all, to pump some life back into them.

stating with the sir's

go Goodes'y

:)

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One would hope his reason for doing it was true....to represent some young indigenous girls, because that would be one hell of a lie if it wasn't true....

I am not a fan of Goodes and I never will be

Why can't he just try to blend in....we don't see any other indigenous players celebrating like he did and an Australian of the year must be smart enough to realise an aggressive celebration like that would be controversial...

Blend in Adam and you won't get booed...

Ask yourself this question, if he did that celebration to the Melbourne cheer squad behind the goals would we be more upset about it..??

We hear about reports of racist comments often, why does he have to be the hero to humiliate a 13 year old girl and make an example out of her, do we see any other indigenous players doing this or doing quite aggressive native dances towards opposition spectators...

BLEND IN GOODES - ITS NOT HARD

Blend in?

Are you kidding us? Australia's rich and legislated racist history surrounds the forced, coerced, and 'volunteered' "blending in" of people indigenous to this land.

If Winmar had of just blended in, we wouldn't have grown as a sport and a fandom. The world is full of great stories about persecuted people who did great things by not blending in.

I think he gets booed because he won AOTY, and behind that is a racist view of how he got that award - through imposed Affirmative Action.

He is a great of the game on his last few matches and one hell of a better human being than the [censored] playing his 400th tonight he will be lauded by all and sundry.

Even if you hate him for the right reasons (eyeroll), suck it up and give it up for a footy player that has done so much in his career.

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Blend in?

Are you kidding us? Australia's rich and legislated racist history surrounds the forced, coerced, and 'volunteered' "blending in" of people indigenous to this land.

If Winmar had of just blended in, we wouldn't have grown as a sport and a fandom. The world is full of great stories about persecuted people who did great things by not blending in.

I think he gets booed because he won AOTY, and behind that is a racist view of how he got that award - through imposed Affirmative Action.

He is a great of the game on his last few matches and one hell of a better human being than the [censored] playing his 400th tonight he will be lauded by all and sundry.

Even if you hate him for the right reasons (eyeroll), suck it up and give it up for a footy player that has done so much in his career.

Adam Goodes says he doesn't really care about being booed, but it affects his family, if he plays against Carlton next time he will get booed even louder than usual because of his little dance last night and he only has himself to blame.

Look at how Luke Hodge was booed against North Melbourne after elbowing their captain.....it's not that complicated like some on here make it out to be.

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Who said you were? Must've missed that post.

Clearly I must be reading a different thread, because I see posts insinuating that people who don't like Goodes and cite reasons like sniping, etc. as nothing more than a front to hide their racism.

By the same reasoning, if I dislike a certain woman, this would make me sexist. Or homophobic if I dislike someone who happens to be gay.

Goodes should be heralded for the work he does for the Indigenous community, but I do feel he spends more time driving a wedge between communities than he does uniting them. If he's going to come out and say people boo him because they're racists, that's deeply misguided (but I can understand why he would come to this conclusion, considering he has undoubtedly suffered a lot of racism throughout his life).

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Adam Goodes says he doesn't really care about being booed, but it affects his family, if he plays against Carlton next time he will get booed even louder than usual because of his little dance last night and he only has himself to blame.

Look at how Luke Hodge was booed against North Melbourne after elbowing their captain.....it's not that complicated like some on here make it out to be.

You still don't get that Goodes was reacting to the fact he had been putting up with Carlton supporters' booing since the second he set foot on the field? You believe that is acceptable while Goodes' response is not because he may have offended someone? Edited by hardtack
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Thank you for posting an example of one of the many reasons that he gets booed.

Something like this isn't an isolated incident for Goodes.

It really seems like he has trouble controlling his emotions (as shown tonight).

Does Jordan Lewis get booed? Does Luke Hodge get booed? No, Hodge is 'a leader of men'. This really is a [censored] argument and the racists (as Martin Flanagan pointed out on AFL 360) try to use any cover they can to continue operating as racists.

Yes, Adam Goodes has been a sniper on the field, but so have many others who do not get booed anymore. Goodes stood up to an ignorant child (which he should have) and now he's receiving boos. It's a part of that follower culture, where someone next to you boos, so you think you'd better join in and this has a ripple effect. The booers are made up of two groups - the majority: flogs - and the minority: racists. It's a pathetic effort to be in either camp.

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The booing will have little to do with racism but a lot to do with his reign as the Australian of the year and his comments to divide rather than unite Australians at that time. No one is proud of the treatment meted out to Aborigines in the past but for goodness sake be a diplomat and a spokesperson for all Australians. There is a lot of residual resentment for his ill considered words at that time which did nothing for his reputation nor the causes of reconciliation and harmony within society.

Sorry to break this to you, but Bob Menzies is dead.

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There is zero doubt that it is racist. Zero.

Lewis is a sniper but doesn't get booed.

Fletcher is a spiteful jerk, but doesn't get booed.

Selwood plays for frees constantly but doesn't get booed.

Lindsay Thomas dives and gets booed. Whoops.

Selwood gets booed constantly. Ballentyne, Milne, Judd, Watson constantly gets booed.

No racism when I say Adam Goodes is self righteous and just an attention seeker.

It's all about Adam Goodes all the time.

He could've done the war dance with Lewis Jetta, Buddy, Yarran, etc before or after the game in a show of solidarity but he chose to do it by himself after he kicks a goal.

He is a champion on the game on field but Adam Goodes is all about his branding.

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Honestly who cares.

Goodes is a champion of the game. I don't particularly warm to him, but he is a star and I have no issues how he celebrates his goals or how outspoken he is about indigenous issues.

The way white Australia treats indigenous Australia is, on the whole, a disgraceful joke.

What Adam Goodes does or doesn't do on the footy field is such a minor non-issue in the scheme of things.

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Anything Adam Goodes gets blown up by the media, he's a great of the game with an off field profile. There was nothing wrong with the celebration, it would have been a better look running in to the arms of the sydney faithful, but he was probably just letting off steam. He said after the game that it wasn't in response to racist comments and that it was a tribute to the boomerangs u/16's team. He probably heard the Carlton supporters call him old, shite, useless, a diver, a sniper, telling him he was going to choke etc and thought 'right, check this out then boys'. Similar to Garlett's reaction last week when he kicked the boomerang from the boundary. He was lined up on the fence next to some bulldogs supporters who were giving it to him, he kicked the goal and did the smug shoulder shrug/ check that out gesture, no one made a big deal of that though.

I boo to show my distaste at acts on the footy field. I've been to all the Victorian MFC games this year and the only player I've booed has been Matt Shaw, after he hit Dean Kent late and high. I boo what I consider to be bad umpiring decisions every week, in hindsight half of them aren't, but I'm at the game and my emotions are running high.

I'm not going to accept that I can't express dissatisfaction at these sort of events because of skin colour:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyD_0gN1kC0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjJtg-GAE9k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-lUwc8daaM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGHmcKeqVw4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b7QRl8aoRY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnQv0wpf7tM

Edited by Beats
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I wouldn't boo Goodes, because it's not my thing, but I don't like him, because he's racially divisive. Launching into commentary on "our very dark past" and other divisive remarks designed to colour our history as poorly as possible, while being feted as Australian of the year was self-serving, horribly opportunistic and ill-considered. It was all designed to taint our past. Rather than uniting Australians and embracing togetherness, he used his role to continue the divide.

I also loathed how he publicly humiliated a 13 year old girl. The girl saw a huge man with a beard running towards her and called him an "ape". Later she said she didn't even know who he was or that he was aboriginal. She just reacted to his appearance. Why are people so quick to condemn a 13 year old girl or eagerly dismiss her protestations of innocence ? I find it quite plausible that she wasn't making a racist remark. And who am I to disbelieve her ?

And when Goodes made his public "stand" against the girl he knew exactly how old she was - "Racism has a face - and it was a 13 year-old girl". Disgraceful.

Agreed on the second point. Let's not dress it up any different. His combatant in the fight against racism was a child. A child with little grasp of the racial connotations of calling the big, muscular hairy bloke in front of her an ape. He knew her circumstances in the aftermath, but Goodes' apparent want to make her the "face of racism" superseded her own rights of protection against being pilloried under the veil of being "educated", and Goodes is to be roundly applauded for this? It's hardly any surprise that the entire episode rubbed some people the wrong way. Nicky Winmar it was not.

If it's purely racially driven, why not other indigenous players? Why Goodes? The answer is that he does tick a few boxes for being a booing candidate. It's a matter of whether you wish to acknowledge them or not. Flanagan is correct in that it does provide a shield for those who would boo someone because of their skin colour, but they are not a majority.

Couldn't care less about dance, personally. It can be fine a line when it results in actually inciting the crowd but other than that I think everyone should move on from it.

Oh and tim, get your ears checked my friend. Selwood absolutely gets booed. Often. The argument that other players don't get booed? You're better than that.

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Miming a spear and charging towards opposition supporters seemed like quite an incendiary act. What if that in turn provoked Carlton supporters to mime a rifle and point it at Goodes? You could have a very ugly situation on your hands.


Goodes challenges conservative Australians, using his position to claim things such as "Australia was built on lies." That's partly why he is booed. It's probably related to being Aboriginal, but it's not just that. If Scott McIntyre were running on to a field today, he'd be lucky to make it out of the ground alive. The fact is, most footy players just aren't political animals and most people don't want them to be.


Goodes' treatment, the booing, is unfair. I think he does have many admirable qualities, but I feel he needs to be above things like that. I sensed he felt the same way after the game.

Edited by wisedog
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There is zero doubt that it is racist. Zero.

"Unless it is well-founded" are you kidding? Think of the decades of research abotu bias, unconscious bias, racism and Australia. you are aware of this literature, aren't you? Because, it would be pretty daft to be talking about a subject in an unfounded way, wouldn't it? I'd be concerned about your thinking on this issue were you to be speaking from an - dare Ai say it - ignorant position.

The "it can't be and if you think so, maybe you are" argument is, well, it is the equivalent of "I know you are, I said you are, but what am I?" My god. That sort of dodgy rhetoric is best left out, don't you think?

And the war dance! Darling, sweetheart. Seriously. Who cares about a war dance. It is a dance FFS. A dance, from a man regularly racially abused, on the round that celebrates his race - a race that has been pushed into what will probably be a fatal decline. And we are a bit sensitive about hurt feelings of the crowd? Precious much? Maybe missing the point just a little?

Lewis is a sniper but doesn't get booed.

Fletcher is a spiteful jerk, but doesn't get booed.

Selwood plays for frees constantly but doesn't get booed.

Lindsay Thomas dives and gets booed. Whoops.

There is no doubt this is about race, fueled by race, denied because of race and bubbling along because of race. Just got to get big enough to admit it.

Tim. It is amazing that you have been able to enter the minds of every person booing to understand their rationale. There are plenty of examples of non-indigenous players who have been booed and taken to by the crowd for prolonged periods of time.

As for the dance itself - I don't care about hurt feelings in the crowd. As I've said, when you've directed you attention and behaviour towards opposition supporters, you have to be prepared to cop it from them.

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To those people who seem to think that 'people are messed up in Halls Creek and they were mean to me, therefore it is open slather on racial abuse', please attempt the alternative option;

'racial abuse is not ok, not at me, not at anyone'.

See, it is so much simpler. We have all come across the puritanical activists of every kind and movement who insist 'their side' is somehow flawless. All we can do is roll our eyes and carry on being as good as we can in the real world.

Also, come on people, Goodes being booed because of his 'attitude/somethingsomething/wahwah', you've gotta be kidding me right?

Do a quick check list of the top players. Compare how much reason there is to boo them (paper-bag payments, chicken winging and pressure-points, for example) and how much they actually get booed.

It's the old thing - Goodes might not be being booed 'because he is Aboriginal', but a tragically large number of people are happy to keep remembering everything he ever did that gives them an excuse to look down on him, and their habit drags conversations around them into the same space.

If Judd were Aboriginal, you can bet there'd be a whole lot more people still talking about his 'fake leadership', his 'pretentious Prius environmentalism', his 'brain snaps', 'protected species/umpires pet' his 'arrogant attitude' and even his 'I really need to take a crap right now' facial expressions.

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I don't give a rat's tossbag what a person's race is. My sons' best friend is from Mauritian parents and my daughter had a Nigerian boyfriend. They are just human beings. Goodes is just another human being. A gun of a footballer who is a pleasure to watch in full flight. Can be a bit of a whinger on the footy field but there are 50 other blokes in line with him, and he also happens to be a leader in his cultural community - these are all good things.

For me I just hate over the top goal celebrations in any sport. I like important goals being acknowledged and I loved Jonesy's roar when he kicked one last week but that is about my limit. My question would be "is the footy field the place for cultural celebrations?" and no, I don't reckon it is. It is the place for footy celebrations.

I am totally sick of the hype and carp that surrounds every game - it is the actual game and the skills which is the highlight - how about we just play the game well and let that be enough. I am sick to death of all the extras - the pre-game bulldust, mascots playing air guitar, players gesturing at the crowd, on-field pointless interviews.

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I got mates who are Hawks fans and they said most of the fans booing last week were booing because he did something dirty to one of their fellas in the grand final last year. Fans keep grudges, the one whose name we don't speak still get's booed when we play them so I can understand why some hawks supporters may boo him. But last night's felt to me there's a lot of people booing just because other's did

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This reminds me of the booing against Clark in round one. The instant reaction from the media was that apparently the crowd were booing him because he had depression. Similarly, Goodes is apparently booed because of his race.

I'd say the reality of the situation is fairly different. Maybe Clark was booed for what he did to us? Maybe Goodes is booed because of his dirty acts on the field?

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Clearly I must be reading a different thread, because I see posts insinuating that people who don't like Goodes and cite reasons like sniping, etc. as nothing more than a front to hide their racism.

By the same reasoning, if I dislike a certain woman, this would make me sexist. Or homophobic if I dislike someone who happens to be gay.

Goodes should be heralded for the work he does for the Indigenous community, but I do feel he spends more time driving a wedge between communities than he does uniting them. If he's going to come out and say people boo him because they're racists, that's deeply misguided (but I can understand why he would come to this conclusion, considering he has undoubtedly suffered a lot of racism throughout his life).

What is it about the word 'you' that escapes your understanding? You made a claim about being called a racist. You weren't, not by anyone on this thread anyway. Appropriating the allegation is in fact attempting the same posturing that you're accusing Goodes of (and, bizarrely, Mitch Clark. How the hell did he get into the conversation?)

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