Jump to content

Discussion on recent allegations about the use of illicit drugs in football is forbidden
  • IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

    Posting unsubstantiated rumours on this website is strictly forbidden.

    Demonland has made the difficult decision to not permit this platform to be used to discuss & debate the off-field issues relating to the Melbourne Football Club including matters currently being litigated between the Club & former Board members, board elections, the issue of illicit drugs in footy, the culture at the club & the personal issues & allegations against some of our players & officials ...

    We do not take these issues & this decision lightly & of course we believe that these serious matters affecting the club we love & are so passionate about are worthy of discussion & debate & I wish we could provide a place where these matters can be discussed in a civil & respectful manner.

    However these discussions unfortunately invariably devolve into areas that may be defamatory, libelous, spread unsubstantiated rumours & can effect the mental health of those involved. Even discussion & debate of known facts or media reports can lead to finger pointing, blame & personal attacks.

    The repercussion is that these discussions can open this website, it’s owners & it’s users to legal action & may result in this website being forced to shutdown.

    Our moderating team are all volunteers & cannot moderate the forum 24/7 & as a consequence problematic content that contravenes our rules & standards may go unnoticed for some time before it can be removed.

    We reserve the right to delete posts that offend against our above policy & indeed, to ban posters who are repeat offenders or who breach our code of conduct.

    WE HAVE BUILT A FANTASTIC ONLINE COMMUNITY AT DEMONLAND OVER THE PAST 23 YEARS & WE WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS THE CLUB WE LOVE & ARE SO PASSIONATE ABOUT.

    Thank you for your continued support & understanding. Go Dees.


Morton or Toumpas


olisik

Recommended Posts

It'd be interesting to know which players other clubs would've selected at pick 4 in that draft.

I suspect Port were fortunate in having pick 7 in some ways, as Wines was an absolute no brainer for them.

I was happy enough with Toumpas when we drafted him - although, like everyone here, I felt a strong attachment to Wines, essentially because of the Jack Viney best mates factor.

Toumpas came in with what appeared to be top tier credentials and was always touted as a high pick. But he simply hasn't looked remotely like the player I had thought we had drafted.

Hugely disappointing. To date at least.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes he fcuking was...

Stop writing this absolute draft drivel Macca

You are better than that. Excuses don't suit you.

... er, no he wasn't.

Certainly not in my eyes anyway. He was just a top junior - that's it (so far)

Many top juniors don't make it in the big time. For proof - go back and look at any previous draft ... before 2010 to be fair as some players mature late.

I've got the facts, results and data on my side Wyl - you've just got your misplaced faith and hope in a poor system. Your anger and frustration regarding Toumpas is misguided.

Don't get me wrong, I still have some expectations but those expectations are tempered by the reality of the situation. Long ago (before we started drafting busts) I came to terms with our drafting process.

I'm not avoiding the truth - I just see the truth differently to you.

.

Edited by Macca
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Scapegoat is the term on this site and with Melbourne supporters that does my head in the most. Toumpas is not a scapegoat, Toumpas is a young player that has so far disappointed most.Time to face facts, and mark my words, if we don't cut our losses at the end of the year, then we will regret it.

Scapegoat is an absolutely appropriate term for what we as a supporter base do to some players.

The key issue with this side has been, and continues to be, that our senior players aren't very good and don't want to put in the hard work that is required. The result is that we are not able to develop young talent because they are being asked to do too much and expected to do more.

We are continually let down by Howe, Dunn, Jamar, Spencer, Garland, Lumumba, Vince, Dawes, and, of course, our other senior players before them (Moloney, Sylvia, Frawley, Davey, etc.), but our response is too often to spew vitriol at the kids who are trying to get a foothold in AFL football but can't because they have no support.

Some players at other clubs are capable of making it without support, that is true, but it is not the norm and nor should it be.

Our disgust with this club should extend to our 'leaders' and 'coaches' of the last 8 years. The fact we have had repeated high quality juniors come to this club, each rated by analysts pre-draft (I'm not talking about Cook or Gysberts here), but continually failed to turn into A-grade players, is a clear result of this. But we continually focus on the kids and let the established players slide.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

... er, no he wasn't.

Certainly not in my eyes anyway. He was just a top junior - that's it (so far)

Many top juniors don't make it in the big time. For proof - go back and look at any previous draft ... before 2010 to be fair as some players mature late.

I've got the facts, results and data on my side Wyl - you've just got your misplaced faith and hope in a poor system. Your anger and frustration regarding Toumpas is misguided.

Don't get me wrong, I still have some expectations but those expectations are tempered by the reality of the situation. Long ago (before we started drafting busts) I came to terms with our drafting process.

I'm not avoiding the truth - I just see the truth differently to you.

.

Every number 2 draft pick is expected to be a top player and most are, that's why they are taken at number 2 and not 72. Simple enough?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You don't have to mention his draft pick number - it's what you're not saying about other lower placed draft picks which is the issue.

Where was all the angst over Tynan, Taggert, Davis and co? Hardly a word.

There is no denying it - we do judge young recruits according to their draft pick number - over 125 threads on Watts, another 100 on Sylvia. Trengove the same.

We drafted Jayden Hunt at the end of 2013 yet I barely ever see his name even mentioned here. Of course, he was pick 57. That must be why - yeah?

.

Ridiculous. For starters, Hunt hasn't played a game, so that's just silly. And I'm not mentioning the others because it's not about them, it's about Toumpas. Don't try and be to clever and read into something that is simply not there. Edited by Demon3
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Every number 2 draft pick is expected to be a top player and most are, that's why they are taken at number 2 and not 72. Simple enough?

How do you explain all the top end busts then? (there has been over 100 first round draft picks that have become busts - including numerous top end picks) You need to do a bit of research - do that, and you'll find I'm on the money.

By the way, how do also explain all the top players who were picked late? ... Goodes 43, S Black 31, Chapman 35. Fyfe 20, Grant 105, Hird 64, T-Mac 53 ... etc etc etc

And I'm not mentioning the others because it's not about them, it's about Toumpas.

I'm pointing out that the draft is not an accurate guide so it therefore can't be relied upon. I see the same player as what you do - but I don't judge him by his draft pick number nor will I point the blame at the club, our recruiters or the player himself ... he is what he is.

Many here do judge by that criteria even if they won't admit it. And to say we should have picked someone else because of how he is right now is just utterly pointless.

Toumpas is a product of a bad system - a system that continually spits out poor and odd results. His output so far hasn't been great but I'm not at all surprised by that - mainly because I see the draft as largely flawed and somewhat of a lottery.

Anyway, it's a team game so it's never about one player anyway - regardless of whether we have separate threads about these players or not, context is always needed. We had more than a dozen poor players yesterday - why the focus on one or 2 players?

Think of it this way, if we didn't have a draft and Toumpas came out of our academy or zone, would we be talking about him in the same way? I doubt it. The draft pick number changes how we view recruits.

If you disagree - so be it.

.

Edited by Macca
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The ball is like a hot potato when Jimmy gets it (and he doesn't get it a lot). No poise at all.

We drafted him for his 'elite' skills as junior. He is unable to execute these skills under AFL pressure. He can do it in the VFL, but the AFL is way too much for him. I'll be amazed if this changes.

He's not the first kid drafted early that has struggled with it. Morton, Addam Maric and Strauss were exactly the same. Elite skills that went to water in the AFL.

Terry Wallace did an analysis on first round picks over the past decade, I seem to remember 'inside' grunt players had a much higher success rate in terms of making it in the AFL than 'outside' players. I think we've learnt from our mistake.

As for Jimmy's future? One thing Mark Neeld did well was forget about previous draft position. He realised Morton and Gysberts weren't up to it and flogged them off for a packet of chips before the fans were ready to let go. Toumpas is out of contract at the end of the year, has he done enough to get an extension? Will he be trade bait? Is it too early to cut our losses? Will be interesting to see what happens. If somebody offers a 2nd or 3rd round pick for him then we should take it.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The big footy rumour is that Adelaide are into Jimmy.

If we got Lyons for him that'd be more than he's currently worth.

That being said, with Salem gone for an extended period he has a real opportunity to be the set up man behind play.

My fear is that his timidity, lack of tenacity, and poor skills when under a scintilla of pressure will once again let him down.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No. It is where the club is at....

Yesterday is History and tomorrow's a mystery hey cobber!!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites


Cale Morton pick 4

Mitch Thorp pick 6

There's hundreds more examples of busts like those.

Tom McDonald pick 53

Adam Goodes pick 43

There's hundreds of other examples where good to top players were picked far too late.

How is the draft anything more than a rough guide? Every club (including his own club) passed on Fyfe - should we sack every recruiter who overlooked Fyfe? If the draft is accurate, all the recruiters should be held to account on this "mistake" alone .... x 200 other such "mistakes". That's a lot of sackings.

Toumpas was never supposed to be a top player - nothing is definite when it comes to drafting ... originally, he might have been and he could still be a good player. People here should have sold their shares in the draft long ago - clinging on to false hope and faith is largely pointless.

.

Yeah but we have made an "Art form" of choosing absolute Duds on a regular basis, Starting with "Diamond Jim Tillbrook"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes

But this club is still in neutral...The 2 clubs who tanked blatantly are going nowhere...

but we can forget about all that and move forward I'm sure.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah but we have made an "Art form" of choosing absolute Duds on a regular basis, Starting with "Diamond Jim Tillbrook"

I think you'll find that Tilbrook was a mature age recruit but I see your point in that regard - for whatever reason we have often stunk at recruiting - but not always.

Around the time that the draft was originally introduced (1986) we had already started to recruit in a much smarter way (the Irish experiment included) and strangely enough, our original zones finally spat out a number of decent players (the zones were kept going for some years as the draft took hold)

We also have drafted quite well previously - no real A graders but there's a reason why we played 5 final series under Northey and 6 final series under Daniher.

We're just in a real lull right now and it's been that way for far too long.

Finally, I don't mind the criticisms that may come Toumpas' way - but let's make it fair and balanced. We had a number of poor players yesterday and Toumpas was certainly not on his Pat Malone in that regard.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Did I read that Toumpas was never expected to be a top player ? What drivel. The club knows it needs stars and it knows the importance of nailing top draft picks. It also knows it stuffed up, just like most of us. Unfortunately, it is what it is.

Toumpas is useless in a contested ball situation, which is not a great trait at AFL level.

No tackles yesterday was an indictment on his performance. Just as Tyson's 2 tackles and poor year to date is an indictment on how he's traveling.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Reason I made this thread was to put it into perspective how far back Toumpas is at this current point in his career and that we have some serious issues going on

Those of you who come here and [censored] 'dumb thread' I got news for you. Go and [censored] yourself and don't open the thread.

That said I hope we cut our losses soon and not end up with a pick in the 70s like we did With Morton, who to me showed way more in his first 20 games then Toumpas has. I've always liked the kid and stuck up for him but enough is enough. We need to be smart to get off the bottom of the ladder, not sympathetic

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    DEPTH CHARGE by Whispering Jack

    The jubilation on the coach’s face as he danced a celebratory jig by the playing bench after the final siren sounded to record his team’s four-point victory over the Demons when the teams last met, said it all.    On that rainy Friday night at the Adelaide Oval, Ken Hinkley’s young midfield secured much more than four points on offer. The victory over one of the big dogs of the competition after a succession of wins over some of its lesser lights gave his team respect and validation fo

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 5

    TRAINING: Monday 25th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Demon Dynasty & Kev Martin were trackside at Gosch's Paddock today to bring you their observations from training. DEMON DYNASTY'S TRAINING OBSERVATIONS Kade Chandler's left knee heavily strapped. BBB, Spargs & Jake Lever also in rehab group. Jake Bowey solo running separate kicking/sprint/agility drills. Super fine morning / early arvo at Gosch's for the boys to blow out some cobwebs. Choco initially had the light duties / rehab group

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Training Reports

    HIBERNATING by KC from Casey

    When they locked up the rooms for summer at the end of last year’s football season, the rooms gathered cobwebs, the atmosphere became dense and the place developed a sleepy feel. They opened up the rooms to let Casey out to play on Sunday but the team was still hibernating and they missed the bulk of the opening quarter. By the time they worked out it was game on, their opponents from Box Hill had accumulated five goals and, if the game wasn’t over, it might as well have been. For a se

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head. The Demons have now won nine of their last ten encounters with the other result, a draw.     And like a fork, it was the multi-pronged options that Melbourne had all across the ground.  It certainly helped that Hawthorn

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports 8

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in the Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out?

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 262

    PODCAST: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Monday, 25th March @ 8:30pm. Join George, Binman & I as we analyse the Demons victory at the MCG against the Hawks in the Round 02. You questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human. Listen & Chat

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 46

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 50

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 357

    GAMEDAY: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    It's Game Day and after mixed results in the first two weeks of the season the Demons have the opportunity to capitalise on their good form last week when they take on the Hawks at the MCG today.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 437
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

  • Podcast 

  • Podcast 

  • Podcast Stream 


    Open Stream in
    New Window
        TuneIn    Opens in New Tab
  • Support Demonland  



  • 2021 Premiership  

  • Social Media 

  • Non MFC Games  

    NON-MFC: Round 03

    Discussion of all the other games that don't involve the Demons in Round 03 ... READ MORE

    Demonland | Round 03

  • Match Preview      

    DEPTH CHARGE by Whispering Jack

    The jubilation on the coach’s face as he danced a celebratory jig by the playing bench after the final siren sounded to record his team’s four-point victory over the Demons when the teams last met, said it all ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 27

  • Latest Podcast      

    PODCAST: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The boys dissected the clinical thrashing of Hawks praising the immense performance of Christian Petracca whilst lamenting the injury toll to our defensive unit ... LISTEN

    Demonland | March 26

  • Training  

    Monday, 25th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Demon Dynasty & Kev Martin were trackside at Gosch's Paddock today to bring you their observations from training ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • Casey Report      

    HIBERNATING by KC from Casey

    When they locked up the rooms for summer at the end of last year’s football season, the rooms gathered cobwebs, the atmosphere became dense and the place developed a sleepy feel. They opened up the rooms to let Casey out to play on Sunday but the team was still hibernating and they missed the bulk of the opening quarter ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • PreGame      

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head out on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out? ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 28

  • Match Report      

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Post Game      

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Votes      

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Game Day      

    GAMEDAY: Round 02 vs Hawthorn

    It's Game Day and after mixed results in the first two weeks of the season the Demons have the opportunity to capitalise on their good form last week when they take on the Hawks at the MCG today ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Training  

    Friday, 22nd March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatcher Kev Martin and I attended the Captain's Run at Gosch's Paddock on this lovely sunny morning to bring you the following observations from the training session ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 22

  • Training  

    Tuesday, 19th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin & Walking Civil War attended Tuesday morning's training session at Gosch's Paddock to bring you the following observations ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 19

  • Training  

    Saturday, 16th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin and Dee Zephyr wandered down to Gosch's Paddock on Saturday morning to bring you their observations from the Captain's Run in the lead up to Sunday's Round One match against the Bulldogs ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 16

  • Farewell  

    Angus Brayshaw Retires

    After 167 games including the drought breaking Premiership Angus Brayshaw has made the heart breaking decision to medically retire from football as a result of a series of serious head knocks over his nearly decade of footy. We wish Gus all the best and he'll always be a hero at Demonland ... READ MORE

    Demonland | February 22

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Koltyn Tholstrup Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club’s newest recruit Koltyn Tholstrup to have a chat about his journey from the farm to the Demons, his first few weeks of preseason training, which Dees have impressed him on the track and his aspirations of playing Round 1 ... LISTEN

    Demonland | December 14

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Jason Taylor Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club's National Recruitment Manager Jason Taylor to have a chat about our Trade and Draft period, our newest recruits, our recent recruits who have yet to debut as well as those father son prospects on the horizon ... LISTEN

    Demonland | November 27

  • Next Match 

    .

    Round 03

       vs   

    Saturday 30th March 2024
    @ 07:30pm (AO)

  • MFC Forum  

  • Match Previews & Reports  

  • Training Forum  

  • AFLW Forum  

  • 2024 Player Sponsorship

  • Topics

  • Injury List  


      PLAYER INJURY LENGTH
    Jake Lever Knee Test
    Clayton Oliver Hand Test
    Oliver Sestan Concussion Test
    Steven May Ribs 1 Week
    Lachie Hunter Calf 1 Week
    Daniel Turner Hip 2-3 Weeks
    Charlie Spargo Achilles 2-4 Weeks
    Shane McAdam Hamstring 3-5 Weeks
    Jake Bowey Shoulder 7 Weeks
    Jake Melksham ACL 12-14 Weeks
    Joel Smith Suspension TBA

  • Player of the Year  


        PLAYER VOTES
    1 Christian Petracca 27
    2 Steven May 25
    3 Max Gawn 21
    4 Jack Viney 20
    5 Bayley Fritsch 19
    6 Clayton Oliver 18
    7 Christian Salem 12
    8 Blake Howes 11
    9 Jack Billings 10
    9 Alex Neal-Bullen 10

        FULL TABLE
  • Demonland Interviews 



  • Upcoming Events 

×
×
  • Create New...