THE SAGA CONTINUES - WADA APPEALS

[rjay 24,919]

wow, do you sincerely think that a high court judge would be so outrageously unprofessional as to let the football team he supports influence his decision making in such a matter?

He's only human 'Lance'.

[Dees2014 2,377]

But the CAS verdict could be well into 2017 at best. If the Bombers keep losing for months (and of course we all hope they do at least for the next match) then it will become impossible to wait for CAS. Also, it may well be that paying out his current contract is not affected by misdeeds that occurred during an earlier contract. We don't know what is in the contract, but EFC may perhaps have difficulty arguing against paying him out even if CAS rules against the players. If so, then sacking him now may be no more costly than waiting for CAS. Not to forget that some further WADA/ASADA action against him rather than just the players may be 'legally' required in any case to avoid a payout. Which is even more delay.

It would be sweet for most Demonlanders if the Demons could put the nail in his coffin this week. But most of us are living in fear for obvious reasons.

Sue, i think it would be an extremely unusual employment contract if there was not some clause relating to breaking the law while employed, and this is usually passed onto one contract to the next if it has indeed been renewed.

I agree CAS may well take to some time into 2016 - I suspect CAS will find it a much more complex case than the one the AFL Tribunal examined, particularly when the start forced testimony from witnesses who refused to testify at the AFL Tribunal. After all, several of these have close criminal connections, and you don't know what might be revealed, think Costigan Royal Commission into Painters & Dockers, Fitzgerald Royal Commission into Queensland Inc.I suspect there is a web of intrigue in the AFL and many of its clubs which may well come out, at least some of it.

[Chris 2,892]

wow, do you sincerely think that a high court judge would be so outrageously unprofessional as to let the football team he supports influence his decision making in such a matter?

Maybe not the judge, but if not then why would Essendon have been chasing him of not to ensure a sympathetic ear?

[Dees2014 2,377]

the context for that debate, it's probably worth mentioning, is the proposition that Chip le Grand has forensically researched the topic and provided a metric [censored] ton of actual real information; but that it's not worth reading because it's biased (unlike BigFooty apparently) and fictional; and despite not being a news limited publication, is still toeing the line demanded by Robert Thomson to save his good mate James Hird for some reason, and is nothing more than propoganda as a result

Lance, as usual you obviously have not been following the debate during the three years it has been going on, and clearly have not been reading Chip Le Grand over that period. If i had to nominate the three leading lights of the Hird propaganda machine, they would be Le Grand, Tracy Holmes and Robbo. Go back and read them, I dare you to. But then again, you might have the insensitivity of Tony Abbot and believe that human beings do not contribute to climate change, coal is good for humanity, and the earth is flat!

[Dees2014 2,377]

wow, do you sincerely think that a high court judge would be so outrageously unprofessional as to let the football team he supports influence his decision making in such a matter?

I am reflecting what people on the AOC tell me. They universally think how Essendon have been treated is outrageously lenient, and so do the few olympic athletes i know. It is no accident CAS has moved the hearing to Europe, away from the insidious influences of the Australian media and politics.

wow, do you sincerely think that a high court judge would be so outrageously unprofessional as to let the football team he supports influence his decision making in such a matter?

Yes, just as the former judges on the AFL Tribunal did.

Edited July 6, 2015 by Dees2014

[Lance Uppercut 10]

Lance, as usual you obviously have not been following the debate during the three years it has been going on, and clearly have not been reading Chip Le Grand over that period. If i had to nominate the three leading lights of the Hird propaganda machine, they would be Le Grand, Tracy Holmes and Robbo. Go back and read them, I dare you to. But then again, you might have the insensitivity of Tony Abbot and believe that human beings do not contribute to climate change, coal is good for humanity, and the earth is flat!

nice ad hom.

But given your next post I'm not surprised you think Chip is part of a global conspiracy.

I am reflecting what people on the AOC tell me. They universally think how Essendon have been treated is outrageously lenient, and so do the few olympic athletes i know. It is no accident CAS has moved the hearing to Europe, away from the insidious influences of the Australian media and politics.

Yes, just as the former judges on the AFL Tribunal did.

In all seriousness you casting aspersions on the professionalism of such eminent people reflects on no-one but yourself. It's a shame that people have to resort to creating grand conspiracies to make the world fit in with their preconceptions.

[Devil is in the Detail 883]

[Lucifers Hero 39,758]

You would think anyone remotely associated with Essendon or aussie rules would have learnt their lesson and expect ASADA to always be on the prow.!!

But Dean Wallis was never the sharpest tool in the shed.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/suburban-footballers-face-scrutiny-form-asada-20150706-gi63jt.html

"In what some believe was an unprecedented move, the anti-doping body (ASADA) tested players from the Essendon District Football League B-grade match between Doutta Stars and Craigieburn on Saturday.

The Doutta Stars are coached by former Essendon player and official Dean Wallis, who had the role of maintaining the spreadsheets during the club's controversial supplements program run by Stephen Dank...Asked why ASADA testers had descended upon the suburban clash at Buckley Park, ASADA said in a statement to Fairfax Media on Monday: "We can confirm the Australian Football League (Victoria) Limited contracted ASADA to conduct tests at this level. ASADA implements an intelligence-based testing program, working with sports to target athletes and competitions at highest risk in an effort to deter and detect doping."

I doubt ASADA would waste time on B-grade leagues if they didn't have a strong reason. It is galling if there is anything in it that Wallis and others think they would get away with it. If ASADA has good intel it seems they have tentacles in many places and will hopefully eventually pin rogues.

[beelzebub 23,364]

wow, do you sincerely think that a high court judge would be so outrageously unprofessional as to let the football team he supports influence his decision making in such a matter?

Of course not lance...thats silly. Almost like suggesting football sympathies may dissuade learned gentlemen from discerning to apply a constant outlook when viewing evidence instead of one level here and a more stringent one there !!

Yeah..Im with you LU..for sure...

[deefrag 277]

Ahoy!

Tonite Wada reveal new evidence sure to send the good ship Doper and the rats who sail her to a watery grave!

[chookrat 4,247]

I would be very surprised if they moved on Hird before the CAS verdict is in for several reasons. First, depending on the decision, the task at Essendon becomes a very different one. Two, if CAS finds the players guilty, and ASADA follows it up, as I think they will do with issuance of infraction notices against Hird, the other coaches, and the Administration, then Hird has not fulfilled his contract and almost certainly could be sacked without compensation. Three, in their current position it is highly likely they would find it very difficult to attract quality coaching candidates until the position becomes clearer, and more than anything now, they need an experienced coach of high integrity. Now that would be a change for Essendon!

Dees2014 - Surely the EFC could not sack a coach for something they knew about at the time his contract was renewed. I'm not a lawyer or Hird apologist but would be extremely surprised if the EFC do not honour Hitd's full contract in the event of an adverse finding by ASADA.

[chookrat 4,247]

My thoughts on how this will play out:

1. CAS will make adverse finding against the players resulting in 2 year suspensions.

2. Hird, Reid and Little will step down. Hird will receive a full payout.

3. There will be a board spill and new board members appointed.

4. The EFC will trade out players for draft picks and start a long rebuild.

5. Eventually when the dust settles a few seasons down the track they will relocate to Tassie and receive draft concessions and a PP.

6. This post will be reopened with complaints re the EFC receiving a PP, however most will agree that the EFC position warrants a PP.

[monoccular 17,427]

Dees2014 - Surely the EFC could not sack a coach for something they knew about at the time his contract was renewed. I'm not a lawyer or Hird apologist but would be extremely surprised if the EFC do not honour Hitd's full contract in the event of an adverse finding by ASADA.

Clubs regularly sack coaches mid contract. And maybe EFC lost their copy of their current coach's contract - after all they don't seem to have s very good filing system.

[biggestred 5,081]

I doubt ASADA would waste time on B-grade leagues if they didn't have a strong reason. It is galling if there is anything in it that Wallis and others think they would get away with it. If ASADA has good intel it seems they have tentacles in many places and will hopefully eventually pin rogues.

You couldnt make this stuff up really.

Dank does an appearance at a footy club coached by wallis who was a coach at essendon in 2012... after the last 2 years?

Whose idea was that?

Also fyi whatever level of sport you play at if your club/association is affiliated with the national body and the national body has signed up to wada then you come under wada rules.

Yes, the korumburra seconds are playing under the wada code.

Actually in saying this this actually means im a drug cheat - ive played 3rds soccer on a prescription asthma medication without clearance... awkward

[hardtack 10,537]

In all seriousness you casting aspersions on the professionalism of such eminent people reflects on no-one but yourself. It's a shame that people have to resort to creating grand conspiracies to make the world fit in with their preconceptions.

So, would a judge be allowed to preside over an embezzlement, murder, or any other case in which the defendant was a friend or relative of his/hers? After all, if the judge is such a professional, then the judge would be beyond reproach and would not be swayed by any form of relationship.

Edited July 6, 2015 by hardtack

[beelzebub 23,364]

Essendon will have difficulty trading players. They'll either be banned, young and required or old and retired.

[chookrat 4,247]

Clubs regularly sack coaches mid contract. And maybe EFC lost their copy of their current coach's contract - after all they don't seem to have s very good filing system.

Yes clubs do sack coaches but they do honour contracts. It would be no different re Hird.

[Lucifers Hero 39,758]

In the Age today Rohan Connolly (Ess supporter) tries to argue that Ess performance is basically a result of the mental burdens of the drugs saga. To support his case he asks: "...how do you then account for the current form of three more players involved now at other clubs?Stewart Crameri is stuck in the Western Bulldogs' reserves...Angus Monfries has kicked three goals in Port Adelaide's past four games and hasn't had more than 12 disposals in any of them. And Paddy Ryder has struggled all season..."

Connolly is such a Hird apologist he can't see the answer is staring him in the face...

...Rohan! Hello!. The juice has worn off for them all!

Edited July 6, 2015 by Lucifer's Hero

[What 18,810]

wow, do you sincerely think that a high court judge would be so outrageously unprofessional as to let the football team he supports influence his decision making in such a matter?

Check out this guy lol

Doesn't realize that corruption is rife in all levels of society

[rjay 24,919]

You would think anyone remotely associated with Essendon or aussie rules would have learnt their lesson and expect ASADA to always be on the prow.!!

But Dean Wallis was never the sharpest tool in the shed.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/suburban-footballers-face-scrutiny-form-asada-20150706-gi63jt.html

"In what some believe was an unprecedented move, the anti-doping body (ASADA) tested players from the Essendon District Football League B-grade match between Doutta Stars and Craigieburn on Saturday.

The Doutta Stars are coached by former Essendon player and official Dean Wallis, who had the role of maintaining the spreadsheets during the club's controversial supplements program run by Stephen Dank...Asked why ASADA testers had descended upon the suburban clash at Buckley Park, ASADA said in a statement to Fairfax Media on Monday: "We can confirm the Australian Football League (Victoria) Limited contracted ASADA to conduct tests at this level. ASADA implements an intelligence-based testing program, working with sports to target athletes and competitions at highest risk in an effort to deter and detect doping."

I doubt ASADA would waste time on B-grade leagues if they didn't have a strong reason. It is galling if there is anything in it that Wallis and others think they would get away with it. If ASADA has good intel it seems they have tentacles in many places and will hopefully eventually pin rogues.

In this case it's the AFL on the prowl.

Pretty sure AFL Victoria asked and paid for the tests.

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

In the Age today Rohan Connolly (Ess supporter) tries to argue that Ess performance is basically a result of the mental burdens of the drugs saga. To support his case he asks: "...how do you then account for the current form of three more players involved now at other clubs?Stewart Crameri is stuck in the Western Bulldogs' reserves...Angus Monfries has kicked three goals in Port Adelaide's past four games and hasn't had more than 12 disposals in any of them. And Paddy Ryder has struggled all season..."

Connolly is such a Hird apologist he can't see the answer is staring him in the face...

...Rohan! Hello!. The juice has worn off for them all!

RC neglects to mention, that it was Hird's stubborness to fight the AFL and ASADA through the courts when all parties were originally prepared to settle. This saga could have been resolved 2 years ago. Players could have gotten on with their careers after serving token penalties. For this to happen Hird would have to have resign just like all the other top Essendon brass who chose to accept their responsibilty. He chose self preservation over the interests of his club. This current problem is 100% of Hird's making.

Edited July 6, 2015 by america de cali

[biggestred 5,081]

I say keep Hird for as long as possible

[Lucifers Hero 39,758]

RC neglects to mention, that it was Hird's stubborness to fight the AFL and ASADA through the courts when all parties were originally prepared to settle. This saga could have been resolved 2 years ago. Players could have gotten on with their careers after serving token penalties. For this to happen Hird would have to have resign just like all the other top Essendon brass who chose to accept their responsibilty. He chose self preservation over the interests of his club. This current problem is 100% of Hird's making.

Have to agree 'a de c'. In fact Hird is still on his arrogant, self-preservation path.

It astounds me that he is taking no responsibility for their woeful form.

No comments like: the coaches have work to do, coaches will look at the game plan etc.

It is all the players fault: 'they stopped playing' he said!!!

Hird has abandoned his players.

He is showing the same contempt as when he pumped them with chemical concoctions.

The same contempt when he went overseas during the bye but told 'only a few leaders'.

Stuff the rest of the playing group! (This may be the defining moment for 'the players to stop playing!')

The players must feel rudderless.

- Their captain wants to get out.

- The coach shows them no respect, has no idea whats wrong but its their fault.

- They look at their coaches box which is scaringly uninspiring: Harvey, Neeld, Craig...

Can't see them getting out of this abyss anytime soon. I just hope we don't see (in share market parlance) a 'dead-cat-bounce' against us this week!

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

In the Age today Rohan Connolly (Ess supporter) tries to argue that Ess performance is basically a result of the mental burdens of the drugs saga. To support his case he asks: "...how do you then account for the current form of three more players involved now at other clubs?Stewart Crameri is stuck in the Western Bulldogs' reserves...Angus Monfries has kicked three goals in Port Adelaide's past four games and hasn't had more than 12 disposals in any of them. And Paddy Ryder has struggled all season..."

Connolly is such a Hird apologist he can't see the answer is staring him in the face...

...Rohan! Hello!. The juice has worn off for them all!

It's funny how Hird is blameless for all of Ess's current issues, according to the article. Poor James! What a fighter.

.... or it would be funny if we hadn't heard it all before multiple times from the #standbyhird crew.

[Lance Uppercut 10]

So, would a judge be allowed to preside over an embezzlement, murder, or any other case in which the defendant was a friend or relative of his/hers? After all, if the judge is such a professional, then the judge would be beyond reproach and would not be swayed by any form of relationship.

are you seriously equating those things with allowing the football team you support to influence a judgement?