Post Match Discussion - Round 5

[mo64 5,875]

do people realise that today it was a team that played in a gf 2 years ago and have played finals for how many years against a team that havent got out of the bottom 4 in a few years. We will not be the only team thrashed by Freo. They have Turds Bummers next week lets hope they do a number on them.

In the next few years thats where we need to be. We arent there yet unfortunately, but hopefully we get there.

We just have to learn from today and make sure we dont do the same mistakes next week against sydney.

And the Dogs played against a team that played in the GF last year, and beat them on their own dung heap. And the Dogs have had far more things go against them this year than us, but their coach has instilled a winning mentality.

Stop making excuses. Sure we were beaten by a better team, but some of the efforts were deplorable.

[jnrmac 20,109]

shouldn't we have been able to see some evidence of SOMETHING changing? I'm not the first one to suggest that Roos might have a weakness in finding a plan B when we are getting smacked. You are right though, we can't know to what extent his orders are being followed. The other thing to think about is that maybe he has his plan in place, and he refuses to deviate it from it because of the scoreboard - on the rationale that the only way they can come to terms with it and eventually execute it properly is to get it wrong for a while and stick at it.

It's just really frustrating watching us find nothing but traffic jams all over the field while our opponent is just running and going wherever they please, all day long

I think its clear when we are getting beaten our 'structures' fall down. And as Roos alluded to in the presser, players don't run to position pass to the first option (eg Tyson to Jamar) etc. Now this is largely as a result of the pressure of the opposition but you can't deviate too much from the structures I am told because everyone is drilled to play that way.

Look, we hit the post, got murdered by the umps on around 5 occasions and turned the ball over I am guessing 20 times- for probably around 75pts from Freo's total. Roos is I think right that we were out of the contest for around 10mins in the 1st qtr and the last 20 mins. FOr the rest of the time we were competitive (albeit always looked a worse team).

In short we eliminate some of the basic errors we stay in it a lot longer..

[Deestroy All 14,266]

Also it's Roos' 2nd year in charge, you can only turn the list over so many at a time.

I think most of us would agree that our best 22 are going to compete pretty well as seen in Adelaide.

What'd we have 7 new players in round 1? You could argue that each of them has made a positive impact.

We'll add some more quality to next season and then start to see some depth.

I doubt we would've beaten Freo with our best 22, but I reckon we'd have done pretty well.

It was a big loss, it wasn't good enough, but there are reasons for it that are obvious and will continue to be addressed.

Be thankful we're not like Richmond and Carlton and wondering WTF is going on.

[Earl Hood 6,086]

And the Dogs played against a team that played in the GF last year, and beat them on their own dung heap. And the Dogs have had far more things go against them this year than us, but their coach has instilled a winning mentality.

Stop making excuses. Sure we were beaten by a better team, but some of the efforts were deplorable.

The Dogs have reinvented themselves inside two years. Father son has helped but Libba is out this year, as well as Wallis recently and they are playing better for it. They have lost half their experienced mid field in the last year or so yet replaced it through the draft and rookie system seemingly overnight. WHAT IS OUR PROBLEM? We still have a third world midfield after how many years? Anyone who thinks Jones or Tyson are A Grade mids had their opinion changed today. I love Jonesy but he is B grade against the likes of Fyfe and Dom is just average t the minute. Unless Dom finds his mojo we will again have stuffed up a first round draft strategy. But then whats new?

[Akum 2,660]

OK, 20 scoring shots to 28. Easily the closest we've got to Freo in the past few years - in 2013 it was something like 10 to 33.

Last quarter we each had about a dozen i50s. They got 7.2, we got 0.6.

5 goals down at 3/4 time, and that's including 2 or 3 absolute charity goals to them, and some horrible misses by us. We absolutely dominated the first 10 mins of the last quarter with 3 or 4 shots on goal. They wouldn't want to be in that position against Hawks or Port.

I thought Freo were very wasteful. They certainly didn't like the physical pressure we applied in the 2nd & 3rd quarters especially. Even with their huge possession advantage, if we could have capitalised on that time of dominance, it could have been much closer.

[Demonsone 2,042]

The Dogs have reinvented themselves inside two years. Father son has helped but Libba is out this year, as well as Wallis recently and they are playing better for it. They have lost half their experienced mid field in the last year or so yet replaced it through the draft and rookie system seemingly overnight. WHAT IS OUR PROBLEM? We still have a third world midfield after how many years? Anyone who thinks Jones or Tyson are A Grade mids had their opinion changed today. I love Jonesy but he is B grade against the likes of Fyfe and Dom is just average t the minute. Unless Dom finds his mojo we will again have stuffed up a first round draft strategy. But then whats new?

Correct.... Bit harsh on Tyson though... Second yr player will need more time to further develop....

Freo are great & it's Lyon 4 yr who inherited a decent list... Roos is turned over 18-20 players in 2yrs..perspective

[Adam The God 30,289]

Jeffy Garlett and McDonald were terrific today. Brayshaw's tackling was again a highlight. His field kicking still needs work.

Our blokes were monstered by the Freo midfield bodies and we didn't lay anywhere near enough tackles. We also didn't work hard enough both ways to provide options for team mates. Freo were doing it all day, but we only did it a handful of times and each time it looked brilliant. We just need to back ourselves more and take more constructive risks.

[Bang Bang Bang 5,826]

I've seen a few people mention Brayshaw's kicking. It's not the most fluent of kicking actions but it gets the job done. Can kick both feet too. He reminds me a bit of Ollie Wines.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Sylvia Saint

[Earl Hood 6,086]

Jeffy Garlett and McDonald were terrific today. Brayshaw's tackling was again a highlight. His field kicking still needs work.

Our blokes were monstered by the Freo midfield bodies and we didn't lay anywhere near enough tackles. We also didn't work hard enough both ways to provide options for team mates. Freo were doing it all day, but we only did it a handful of times and each time it looked brilliant. We just need to back ourselves more and take more constructive risks.

Reminded me of my under age footy days when my team could thrash a side by 100 points then play the next side and lose by 100 plus. Very uneven competition based on the talent pools. The top sides had the pick of the local high or technical schools while the rest picked kids from their local churches or tennis clubs. AFL is looking very similar, with FA, top teams drafting kids out of contract etc more or less at will.

[Bang Bang Bang 5,826]

it was a disgraceful performance today.

Look at what the Doggies did to the Swans. Theres no excuses for this club anymore, today was utter [censored],.

Let's not forget the Doggies were similarly thrashed by Hawthorn only 2 weeks ago. They bounced back superbly and we have the same opportunity next Saturday night.

[titan_uranus 25,020]

Let's not forget the Doggies were similarly thrashed by Hawthorn only 2 weeks ago. They bounced back superbly and we have the same opportunity next Saturday night.

Good observation.

It's frustrating when we stumble and at the same time a side we should be even with has a strong victory (and good on them too), but we just need to focus on ourselves and work on rebounding from the loss like they did to beat Adelaide the week after.

[Adam The God 30,289]

Watching McKenzie run around today reminded me of 2012 and 2013. Please don't remind me of 2012-2013. He's a great trier, but surely he's played his last game. Then again, I can't understand his selection in the first place. If he'd come in to tag, then okay, it's just a case of a lack of depth, but Jordie McKenzie played as the sub. WTF.

And while I'm on this, why the hell did Vince not hard tag Fyfe, ala Dangerfield? Mind boggling. No wonder we lost. Our blokes didn't pay Fyfe any respect early on in the game. He literally ran around by himself for the first 5-10 minutes of the game. I thought our defence was terrific considering the enormous height difference on almost every line and the almost non-existent midfield run off half back.

Our improvement is ultimately going to be very minimal until we draft/trade more depth in next year.

Edited May 4, 2015 by AdamFarr

[dazzledavey36 55,004]

Watching Betts tear it up in the showdown today only shows how important Nev Jetta has become to our side. He wouldn't have made much different to the scoreline, but his ability to keep his man quiet while also offering a bit of drive out of defence is invaluable.

Sheesh make sure Curry doesn't read this.

[Akum 2,660]

Let's not forget the Doggies were similarly thrashed by Hawthorn only 2 weeks ago. They bounced back superbly and we have the same opportunity next Saturday night.

Great point.

Come to think about it, the Doggies supporters I see most days (I live & work in the western suburbs) were saying much the same after their Hawthorn match as we are now.

And as I've tried t say, although it's an 11-goal loss, I think we weren't far from giving this game a real shake, desire playing right into their hands tactically for the whole game. So far our biggest problem seems to be that during times when we're dominant, we miss the opportunities at critical times to put on scoreboard pressure. That's something that should improve the next season or two.

[jnrmac 20,109]

Let's not forget the Doggies were similarly thrashed by Hawthorn only 2 weeks ago. They bounced back superbly and we have the same opportunity next Saturday night.

Yeah right, This will be our 50h line in the sand snow game in the last 3 years.

[jnrmac 20,109]

Watching McKenzie run around today reminded me of 2012 and 2013. Please don't remind me of 2012-2013. He's a great trier, but surely he's played his last game. Then again, I can't understand his selection in the first place. If he'd come in to tag, then okay, it's just a case of a lack of depth, but Jordie McKenzie played as the sub. WTF.

And while I'm on this, why the hell did Vince not hard tag Fyfe, ala Dangerfield? Mind boggling. No wonder we lost. Our blokes didn't pay Fyfe any respect early on in the game. He literally ran around by himself for the first 5-10 minutes of the game. I thought our defence was terrific considering the enormous height different on almost every line and the almost non-existent midfield run off half back.

Our improvement is ultimately going to be very minimal until we draft/trade more depth in next year.

Not sure if you noticed but none of our players could lay a hand on Fyffe. They were trying to but he is pretty strong.

[Adam The God 30,289]

Not sure if you noticed but none of our players could lay a hand on Fyffe. They were trying to but he is pretty strong.

I did notice. Thank you. That doesn't change the fact he didn't have an opponent for the early part of the game.

[Seinfeld 40]

Correct.... Bit harsh on Tyson though... Second yr player will need more time to further develop....

Freo are great & it's Lyon 4 yr who inherited a decent list... Roos is turned over 18-20 players in 2yrs..perspective

Tyson was drafted by GWS in 2011 and played his first game in 2012...so this is his 4th year..he will 22 next month

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Tyson was drafted by GWS in 2011 and played his first game in 2012...so this is his 4th year..he will 22 next month

And was injured for nearly twelve months, he has only played 30 odd games, if he was in his fourth year he would be around 80, get your facts right before you correct someone else

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Gee only nine pages, Tyson has gone from next superstar to dud, Jones from A to B grade, Van Demon/Newton wrong choices etc etc....gee a week is sure a long time in footy

We were competitive for 3 quarters against the in form midfield in the comp, we had a shocker in the 4th

Take home the positives, Garlett, Grimes on Ballantyne, Brayshaw, Tommy Mc

[monoccular 17,439]

I too though Pedo was ok today and deserves another crack against the Swans. We do not have much depth, the sooner we can get the likes of Viney, Jetta and Frost back the better. McKenzie was a poor sub.

McKenzie's main attribute, in a fairly limited arsenal, is his ability to run all day as a tagger. That is why so many here are astounded that he was used as a sub. A sort of 'half pregnant' decision. Reflects our lack of depth, though as many have pointed out our best 22 is far better than it has been for years.

do people realise that today it was a team that played in a gf 2 years ago and have played finals for how many years against a team that havent got out of the bottom 4 in a few years. We will not be the only team thrashed by Freo. They have Turds Bummers next week lets hope they do a number on them.

In the next few years thats where we need to be. We arent there yet unfortunately, but hopefully we get there.

We just have to learn from today and make sure we dont do the same mistakes next week against sydney.

That is what I hope Roos and co will use from today - a big opportunity to learn from the best - what to do and what not to do.

If they learn those lessons this will not be the disaster it appears to be

[CityDee 738]

Tough day at the office , dislike our turn on our players mentality the boys had a crack we have work to do but had our chances to be right in it . Seeing it more and more through the afl , saints not finishing cost them and cost us to be able to challenge the dockers . Freo's warmup had the guys drillng everything and all have confident set routines when lining up .

[Nasher 33,616]

Gee only nine pages, Tyson has gone from next superstar to dud, Jones from A to B grade, Van Demon/Newton wrong choices etc etc....gee a week is sure a long time in footy

We were competitive for 3 quarters against the in form midfield in the comp, we had a shocker in the 4th

Take home the positives, Garlett, Grimes on Ballantyne, Brayshaw, Tommy Mc

1. Nobody said Tyson was a dud.

2. Nobody said Newton was a wrong choice.

3. Nobody said Van Demon was a wrong choice.

You do yourself no favours at all by being disingenuous. I get your frustration at wrist slashers; I share it. However those players along with Jones all had poor games, people are allowed to point that out.

Your "superstar to dud" comment shows how black and white you see things. Tyson is neither a superstar nor a dud and more to the point, nobody has suggested that he is.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

1. Nobody said Tyson was a dud.

2. Nobody said Newton was a wrong choice.

3. Nobody said Van Demon was a wrong choice.

You do yourself no favours at all by being disingenuous. I get your frustration at wrist slashers; I share it. However those players along with Jones all had poor games, people are allowed to point that out.

Your "superstar to dud" comment shows how black and white you see things. Tyson is neither a superstar nor a dud and more to the point, nobody has suggested that he is.

I'm quoting this so it appears twice.

[Lucifers Hero 39,991]

The Devil Inside, on 04 May 2015 - 01:30 AM, said:

Gee only nine pages, Tyson has gone from next superstar to dud, Jones from A to B grade, Van Demon/Newton wrong choices etc etc....gee a week is sure a long time in footy

We were competitive for 3 quarters against the in form midfield in the comp, we had a shocker in the 4th

Take home the positives, Garlett, Grimes on Ballantyne, Brayshaw, Tommy Mc

1. Nobody said Tyson was a dud.

2. Nobody said Newton was a wrong choice.

3. Nobody said Van Demon was a wrong choice.

You do yourself no favours at all by being disingenuous. I get your frustration at wrist slashers; I share it. However those players along with Jones all had poor games, people are allowed to point that out.

Your "superstar to dud" comment shows how black and white you see things. Tyson is neither a superstar nor a dud and more to the point, nobody has suggested that he is.

Quoting Nasher's post so it appears a 3rd time!

Too often differing points of view are shouted down, misrepresented or ridiculed. Thank you Nasher for calling this out.

Edited May 3, 2015 by Lucifer's Hero