Changes for Round 3

[Akum 2,660]

Out: tall, slow.

In: small, fast.

At least two talls have to go, for two smalls.

Out: Dawes & either Garland or Howe.

In: JKH, Michie.

And I'd bring in Bail simply for his speed and run, and drop one of our too-many slow mids. Don't care which one, could even be Tyson or Cross. Apart from a couple of cameos last week, Tyson has given very little this season, and he's not good defensively so if he's not getting the ball, he's on shaky ground. I love Cross, but we just have one slow mid too many at the moment, and against fast teams, the risk of getting exposed for speed is too great.

And Vince is sub until he can run out a full game.

[watchtheeyes 1,420]

There is no way reilly is the answer, as much as I like his effort.

Was just looking at the clearance stats of rd 2. GWS top clearances were from who you'd expect, Shiel, Griffin, Treloar, Kelly, Cognilio etc.

Top for Dees? Jamar. Then vandenBerg. Tyson collected 2. Jones collected 1.

...

Changes won't make a difference unless Jones, Tyson and Vince - our best players - play better.

[DeeSpencer 25,723]

We need fast, skillful, hard, fit, ball winning, defensive working midfielders.

Besides Brayshaw coming out of the vest we just don't have any. There's a reason we drafted Petracca, Neal-Bullen and Stretch.

Toumpas can run and sometimes is skillful. He's not hard fast or ball winning.

Bail, Matt Jones, Michie, McKenzie it's all the same.

They aren't better players than Vince (who's lacking fitness), N Jones, Lumumba. Cross does ball winning and defensive still, yes he lacks skill and pace. Tyson has to be backed in, not the first player to stink against their old side. Newton might be dropped, but he would've had 30 and 3 at Casey today.

I really don't think shuffling the back 6 or the forwards will achieve it.

Salem could be released from the backline but we all know he's there for a very important reason.

Come to think of it maybe JKH could come in as a sub and vandenBerg could go to Casey and be trained up as a midfielder again. He's very good at half forward but probably short of a run to be an AFL mid. A few weeks at Casey might have him ready to smash in back in the centre for the Dees. I'm keen to see him around the ball. If he was fitter I get the feeling he could've won a few clearances for us today in the 3rd quarter where so many others didn't get near it.

[picket fence 17,181]

We picked the wrong side this week against the Pace of GWS. Although changes must be made against Adelaide we also need to match up against some solid bodies!

So, we cannot just go all out for speed we need "Balance"

A retrograde step to even think about Jordy, Grimes, M Jones et al.

Some on this site suggested Bail but he also is fringe! and not overly quick!

Toumpas aint ready and won't be for quite a while.( Still unconvinced anyway)

I would mix up the positioning a bit and consider Riley and JKH

Possible outs include a combination of Dawes, Vander, Kent, Howe

I think Brayshaw stays.

Some other thoughts!

We missed some sitters on goal.

Kent missed 2 sitters, Garlett is paid to kick gimme goals! That's 2 he has missed from less than 30 out in two weeks! Inexcusable!

Also our leaders were extremely poor today. Jones looked very slow! but he was not alone.

I believe our positioning at Centre bounces is incorrect! We do not place ourselves ready for a quick clearance.

Finally, we have too many guys who do not give first option, but rather try to bulldoze their way through. Jones does this far too much and it has been a fault of his for a long time which hasn't been rectified!

It was as poor a second half that I have seen from an MFC Outfit.

Players have no pride and even less belief!

Another soul destroying Winter coming up and I can't see a quick fix!

So relentlessly depressing supporting this team!

Edited April 11, 2015 by picket fence

[Ethan Tremblay 30,878]

We picked the wrong side this week against the Pace of GWS. Although changes must be made against Adelaide we also need to match up against some solid bodies!

So, we cannot just go all out for speed we need "Balance"

A retrograde step to even think about Jordy, Grimes, M Jones et al.

Some on this site suggested Bail but he also is fringe! and not overly quick!

Toumpas aint ready and won't be for quite a while.( Still unconvinced anyway)

I would mix up the positioning a bit and consider Riley and JKH

Possible outs include a combination of Dawes, Vander, Kent, Howe

I think Brayshaw stays.

Some other thoughts!

We missed some sitters on goal.

Kent missed 2 sitters, Garlett is paid to kick gimme goals! That's 2 he has missed from less than 30 out in two weeks! Inexcusable!

Also our leaders were extremely poor today. Jones looked very slow! but he was not alone.

I believe our positioning at Centre bounces is incorrect! We do not place ourselves ready for a quick clearance.

Finally, we have too many guys who do not give first option, but rather try to bulldoze their way through. Jones does this far too much and it has been a fault of his for a long time which hasn't been rectified!

It was as poor a second half that I have seen from an MFC Outfit.

Players have no pride and even less belief!

Another soul destroying Winter coming up and I can't see a quick fix!

So relentlessly depressing supporting this team!

One of your better posts PF (not that hard to be honest though ) Edited April 11, 2015 by Ethan Tremblay

[Wiseblood 24,637]

We picked the wrong side this week against the Pace of GWS.

This is all that needs to be said. We went too tall this week. Bringing Dawes in was okay, but at the expense of a small like JKH wasn't the right move.

[titan_uranus 25,020]

Dunn should do ok on Jenkins. Yeah he's got him for speed and height but Dunny can compete, he did the job last year. Garland or Howe can cover Lynch, he's less of a marking target than McCarthy was today. Frost is playing as the 2nd ruck for the time being. I think following similar logic to what you used (and I agree with) I think Frost should stay in his current role until going back to the VFL to play as a key defender again. That said I wouldn't be surprised at all if this is the week to change the 2nd ruck option (make it Dawes or bring in Spencer/Gawn/Pedo) and I'm not sure if that would mean giving up on Frost in that role entirely.

I think something's got to give with the second ruck at the moment - we're a tad hamstrung using Frost in that role as limits our ability to use him as a key defender.

As for defenders, Dunn's got to improve on his first two weeks if he's going to play well on Jenkins. Adelaide of 2015 is already obviously better than Adelaide of 2014; on current form I worry about Dunn on Jenkins.

I can understand how Dawes is less mobile than JKH, but Frost is a mobile player. Watts is as well, he's in no way a tall. vandenBerg as well. So I can see how the forward line might have functioned a bit worse than last week with a change.

But we still had the 7 main mids with Kent, vandenBerg, Garlett pitching in.

So I'm not buying the too tall at all.

Our mids were smashed and in particular our best mids - Jones, Tyson and Vince just weren't up for it. Dawes in compared to JKH had absolutely no bearing on our inability to win a clearance or run with the GWS midfielders.

I think people are seeing a lack of run and spread through the middle and automatically attributing that to having too many talls.

It's not like JKH was giving us huge amounts of run last week (though whatever it was, it would have exceeded what we got from Dawes). The real issue is that, despite having plenty of running mids in the side, none of them were working hard enough through the middle. Additionally, last week we had impressive drive off half-back coming from Lumumba, Howe and Garland. Today Garland was awful, Howe no better, and Lumumba didn't give us anywhere near as much drive. No push from half-back means no ball movement, no work ethic from the middle means no run. It's not just about Dawes and the talls.

Riley Riley Riley.

Why does our clearance monster get overlooked when clearances are our no.1 deficiency?

I really do not understand.

Because he's slow, and pace is a huge deficiency.

He also struggles to dispose of the ball cleanly, another huge deficiency.

We have the ability to win clearances in the current 22 - Jones, Tyson, Vince, Cross, Viney, Brayshaw. Unfortunately today the majority of them had terrible days (Mumford killing Jamar didn't help).

Riley needs to offer more than just clearance work to get a spot in the side.

[DeeSpencer 25,723]

I think something's got to give with the second ruck at the moment - we're a tad hamstrung using Frost in that role as limits our ability to use him as a key defender.

As for defenders, Dunn's got to improve on his first two weeks if he's going to play well on Jenkins. Adelaide of 2015 is already obviously better than Adelaide of 2014; on current form I worry about Dunn on Jenkins.

Day got Dunny for 2 goals, but not sure they were his fault too much. Jenkins will get him, but my point is more what will Frost do that Dunn can't. Frost isn't a lock down specialist and then you wonder where he first in the 6 backs. We go to 7 backs that doesn't help the midfield.

Regardless of if Frost is in the team fwd/ruck or not I can't see him helping the backline.

Agree totally on more drive needed from the backline. Particularly Howe and Garland. Howe probably shouldn't have played this week, but for all our magically so called depth we didn't have a defender worth a spot playing for Casey, not unless you wanted to badly interrupt whatever Grimes rebooting process is hopefully happening.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Out - Dawes (with great passion-[censored] off). Lacked leadership severely

In-zero care from here, but Dawes needs to learn the RIGHT way

[dee-luded 2,959]

Backline:

The back 6 is settled. It should stay that way. The first half is a better reflection of their talent than the 13 goal run.

That said:

- Howe was very very sore this week. Misson eluded to it. Not sure why really. Keep it quiet. If he's still sore then give him a week off. If a lesser effort kept him quiet then back him in.

- Jetta needs to find match fitness. His efforts around and with the ball have been fine, a dropped mark here or there aside. But he gets gassed quickly

- Lumumba might better deployed in the midfield full time and a 7th defender might need to come from somewhere else

Forwards:

- Dawes, Hogan, Frost has been the plan since early in the year. Let's give it another week at least. Hogan seemed no worse off of, if not better off for Dawes being out there

- Jack Watts did seem to suffer. But still found the footy. Still had his chance at marks that he fails to grab. One solid defensive tackle, one or two poorer ones

- I don't think we lost due to Kent, Garlett and vandenBerg. All 3 had moments.

Mids

- Clearly the big problem area.

- Jones, Tyson, Cross, Newton all got creamed when the heat was on

- Viney was ok.

- Vince ran out of puff but had moments of quality, you have to presume he improves, particularly back in Adelaide

- Lumumba can't find the same space as in the preseason

- Is 7 primary midfielders plus the sub enough? Can we afford 2 rucks and 6 other forwards? I don't think so. But how many mids do we need?

I think we need to bolster the midfield options by rotating more through half forward. But we've got half forwards who can play some time on a wing and we don't have a great variety of mids who can play well forward.

So my plan is actually no change. Newton becomes the 7th defender at half back so Lumumba stays on a wng. Brayshaw steps in to the starting 21. Vince on the wing. vandenBerg back to sub.

Frost is on notice. We have to think about a 2nd legit ruck even if Jamar plays more forward. The midfield need the service

Watts and Dawes are on notice

vandenBerg and Kent are on notice

Cross and Newton are on notice. But I still believe they are superior to those at Casey

More than anyone Dom Tyson is on notice. He has some credits in the bank but he needs to show defensive work rate, more of his spread and run the lines hard. He's a good clearance player when he's got the ball, but provides little resistance to opponents. He needs to get physical defending at the stoppage.

I would play a 2nd ruck next week, Spencer in the 1st ruck, with the Russian up forward, rotating 3 thru the ruck early, 1st Qtr mainly Spencer & Frost. Keep Russian fresh only working the forward 50M, & helping over the top in our forwardline.

After half time give the Russian more Mid time, rotating Spencer thru the F/Pocket & the bench. Later in the game I'd hope the Pencil can take some heavy pack marks, or crash the packs with Garlett & others feeding.

maybe Howe has a rest, or starts as :Sub. later in the game if we're too tall we could also sub Spencer or Russian, for a Howe. but we do need more run compared to today.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

Just got home from a night out, Grimes back in, thought he was finished, Toumpas (Ollie who?), even a suggestion for Bail, I justed neede Matt Jones to make my night....hilarious, thank you for the entertainment with my cocoa, especially Picket for his contradictory post

Mumford smashed Jamar in the second half and we didn't have a good second ruck to take a bit of the strain, and a young fast elite to be midfield fed off him and tore us a new one

Haven't seen Roos' presser yet, but we already know he is not one for dropping players for one poor (half) game, if that was the case Nathan Jones and Tyson would be the first cabs off the rank

Edited April 11, 2015 by The Devil Inside

[WERRIDEE 5,479]

Just got home from a night out, Grimes back in, thought he was finished, Toumpas (Ollie who?), even a suggestion for Bail, I justed neede Matt Jones to make my night....hilarious, thank you for the entertainment with my cocoa, especially Picket for his contradictory post

Mumford smashed Jamar in the second half and we didn't have a good second ruck to take a bit of the strain, and a young fast elite to be midfield fed off him and tore us a new one

Haven't seen Roos' presser yet, but we already know he is not one for dropping players for one poor (half) game, if that was the case Nathan Jones and Tyson would be the first cabs off the rank

You were at training all week. What the hell was wrong with Nate Jones? Please tell us he was injured? Surely he hasn't caught what the rest of the team has which is Melbourneitis which makes you give up once the going gets tough.

What if we can bring McKenzie back as well that will surely make you explode?

Curry & Beer must be excited as well as we could finally have a team based on games played. IN: PEDERSEN OUT: HOGAN

[Bring Back Barassi 552]

You were at training all week. What the hell was wrong with Nate Jones? Please tell us he was injured? Surely he hasn't caught what the rest of the team has which is Melbourneitis which makes you give up once the going gets tough.

Jones was awful even when we were in front. Had nothing to do with the going getting tough. Was tagged right out of it from the start. Happens to the best of them.

IN: JKH

OUT: Frost

Give Brayshaw a full game.

[Biffen 12,944]

Frost was not the issue.

We lacked speed.

We stopped tackling.

We were satisfied with one good half.

I thought their tackling was superb in the second half ,and it helped them use their leg speed to over run us.

Bring in more speed.

Jkh ,stretch ,Fitzy in.

Dawes,Cross,Jamar out.

[Demon3 2,541]

GWS will make a few teams look silly this year. We gave up though, no one stood up, Jones lowest disposal count since R22 2010.. Where was the leader that said, I'll be Nathan Jones today. Jack Viney is a beauty in my opinion, but is still young.. Vince was horribly underdone. Brayshaw should have started. Vberg had a shocker 2nd game up, Tyson having no influence and Garlett should have spent more time in the Middle, and I'm not being over the top when I say Howe played a game that he should be embarrassed by and the club should be embarrassed to have someone play in our jumper who cared so little. Absolute disgrace.

JKH in

Bail in

Howe out

Cross out

Edited April 11, 2015 by Demon3

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

JKH Has played in four of our last five wins, he needs to come back in.

[Deeoldfart 8,035]

You were at training all week. What the hell was wrong with Nate Jones?

Someone asked in the (Friday) training thread whether Nathan Jones had trained. I thought it was a bit of a strange question at the time. Maybe not quite so strange now. Any clues anyone?

[DeeSpencer 25,723]

Someone asked in the (Friday) training thread whether Nathan Jones had trained. I thought it was a bit of a strange question at the time. Maybe not quite so strange now. Any clues anyone?

He got absolutely belted on the wing late in the Gold Coast game. Took a big hit. Maybe just soreness. If you're 5% off and the teams getting steam rolled them it can happen. We use Viney to tag to keep a good player around the contests. GWS use Coniglio tagging because they have so many bright young midfield prospects, most of whom now have the level of strength and fitness required, that they can spare him.

I'm surprised Roos didn't do what worked for him last year in switching Jones on to a GWS player to lock down, but if he wasn't 100% then that makes sense.

Misson and the physio team etc have a lot of work to do with Jones, Howe, Vince and probably some others. It's round 2, if they aren't fully fit then they might need the week off.

[rpfc 28,541]

Frost is very raw as a forward. He is very handy in the contests - in that he is athletic and tough at the man and ball - but there is no polish there yet.

But his real issue is as a forward he is unsure of himself and when he leads he doesn't commit often enough, when he does commit he stops if he thinks the bloke with the footy won't kick it - you just have to lead like you are the best option, and he is fully unaware that when Dawes and Hogan are around - I am there to get in 'other peoples' way - not theirs.

I don't know whether he is a change but as a tall forward he struggles.

The midfield in the 3rd quarter was the reason for the embarrassment - but I don't know if there is many to make way for the Crows.

If Tyson and Jones have downers - it is a very big point of failure for this club - and we knew that going into this season.

[QueensBirthday 186]

Frost was not the issue.

We lacked speed.

We stopped tackling.

We were satisfied with one good half.

I thought their tackling was superb in the second half ,and it helped them use their leg speed to over run us.

Bring in more speed.

Jkh ,stretch ,Fitzy in.

Dawes,Cross,Jamar out.

Mate, you're kidding Jamar out. We need another one of him. He couldn't take on Mumford all day. The hit-up ruckman were totally ineffectual. Edited April 12, 2015 by QueensBirthday

[ILLDieADemon 804]

I think every player should be given a second change to prove them selves next week.

If they all know they are on notice then they might play hard to keep there spot.

[DeeSpencer 25,723]

I'm starting to think Newton's slick ball use (high DE) and goal kicking is a luxury that we can't afford. Not if it doesn't come with proper inside ball winning or outside run.

Maybe we use him on a half forward or half back flank.

I still have images of preseason in my head:

1. Garland tanking in the running

2. Newton battling along with Riley in his first session.

3. Dom Tyson coming about 20th in the time trial

4. Jamar doing about 50% of the sessions.

Our players are healthy (Howe and Vince aside). They are fit to play. But are they truly rock hard fit? There might be a culture of professionalism but I'm not sure some of our guys attacked the preseason hard enough. I hope I'm wrong

[dazzledavey36 55,004]

Howe needs to go back up forward. Back to where we drafted him for and back where he actually plays the position well. Thought they would have put him forward this year considering Hogan and Watts are up there with Garlett and Frost aswell. Disappointing we continue to use him as a defender when he isn't a defenders [censored].

In 2013 Howe kicked 28 goals so its pretty much a 30 goal year 3rd forward. At his best we all know he can be a damaging forward. Drop Dawes and put Howe up forward. I reckon he would benefit hugely with Hogan Watts Frost and JKH Garlett buzzing around his feet.

[rjay 24,993]

All this talk about us picking the wrong side for yesterdays game doesn't ring true for me. We were leading by around 30 points at one stage of the match so we must have been doing something right.

Yesterday is a reflection of our preseason form where we go to sleep for large periods of the game, this is not so much a selection issue. We have a team that has to work for the full game, we are not good enough to coast.

Having said that I think Dawes is a liability, we really need to find a good forward/ruck option in the next trade period.

[The Devil Inside 2,147]

If Jones was injured, he did a very good job of hiding it at training on Thursday, no medical or physio staff anywhere near him during the whole session, which he did.

These days they have to report injury, no matter how trivial, doubt whether Roos would have played him with a significant injury