Changes for Round 3

[Dockett 32 1,239]

Agree with JKH but one change would not reflect the 'capitulation' Roos referred in his presser. He was calm but I sensed he was very dirty.

[Harry Plopper 105]

I will be disgusted if there are no changes. Paul Roos himself said that Melbourne had players in form playing in the VFL. So if you have a performance like that you put them bloody in and take out those who were clearly NOT in form today.

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2015-04-09/dawes-vince-not-only-ones-in-mix-roos

[bing181 9,246]

Not sure.

Vince and to some extent Dawes short of match fitness/practise, so I wouldn't be moving them on. Perhaps the same for Howe - he missed the back half of the pre-season, obviously busted a gut to make it back for round 1, maybe paid for it all today.

I liked Brayshaw in what time he had, definitely keep him in for mine, even only as sub.

The two I'd look at would be VDBerg and Kent. Both have great upside, but Kent has disposal issues - too often just a panic disposal, and should have had one or two goals more than he did. Vandenberg needs to get a bit more experience away from the pressure, and it's going to be nothing but pressure for the coming weeks. I'd consider playing them at Casey with specific goals/tasks to focus on.

But ... who really knows!

[SaberFang 7,151]

Was definitely an undercurrent of angst in the presser with Roos. He pinned it on effort and that's entirely true. It wasn't skill errors today, it was effort.

Even the Saints are having a dip tonight. We have a serious mental problem with effort.

EDIT: Also had more than a couple of jabs about the GWS draft concessions. They will be unstoppable in 3 years.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Lamashtu

[watchtheeyes 1,420]

I just don't understand how effort can fluctuate so wildly - but agree that it appears to.

[dee-luded 2,959]

don't want to see Grimes back in just yet... just want him to spend some time readjusting his gamestyle & mind, to get the confidence back... so don't want him to come into a struggling side, or he will slip straight back into old habits & form.

I'm thinking, dare i say it, the run of Bail is needed thru the middle. I'm not a Bail fan really, but in the short term he could help.

IF Howe is still sore, then maybe he rests; with McKenzie in to tag, & Lumumba in the back.

Watts to the wing or high half forward roaming & drifting forward. needs IMO to get further involved

& we need some more physicality at the high bomb up front. maybe Spencil gets to have a crack at the crows bodies.

So, who needs to come out of the side?

Edited April 11, 2015 by dee-luded

[watchtheeyes 1,420]

While I agree in the principle of more run through the middle, I don't agree that Bail is the answer. Think JKH or Toumpas can fill that role.

Also don't agree with Watts playing on the wing. He belongs primarily in the fwd line. Yes move forward of centre occasionally like any good half forward should but he is most effective roaming the forward half - he was excellent leading out of the fwd 50 last week.

Watts wasn't the issue tonight, it was the stoppages. Tyson, Jones, Cross, Viney, Lamumba and Vince didn't do a job either retrieving the ball or putting any pressure on (with the exception of Viney). They do their job here and players like Watts excel.

So next week we rightfully expect that those players, the leaders, do what they need and we make small changes around the edges. Replace Howe with Grimes and you get some composure and leadership (which is what I thought he showed in NAB). Replace JKH with Frost and you have the ability to release Garlett, JHK or Kent in to the middle to add speed and tackling pressure - like they did last week.

Edited April 11, 2015 by watchtheeyes

[SaberFang 7,151]

It's just perverse to me that a Roos coached team could not only concede a ~30 point lead, but end up losing by 50 points.

Absolutely no defensive structures held up today, and that's pathetic for year two of his game plan.

[What 18,810]

The club is cursed;

Think we need to change our colours or something. Theres something psychological about our colours or our name the Demons, or something.

We remain the only team that doesn't play for the jumper and the only club that cant produce superstar players.

So how about a proper investigation to find out what the [censored] is wrong?

[watchtheeyes 1,420]

Except it was effort, not structure. You could have the best structure ever thought up, but if 15 or so blokes are going at 75% then that's going to count for nothing.

[watchtheeyes 1,420]

Not particularly constructive HH, how about we leave the 'woe is me' chatter for the post match conversation - which I am deliberately keeping a wide berth of.

[Adam The God 30,272]

I don't think we'll make any changes, but if we do, I hope it's Howe. He didn't look interested, unless of course I'm missing something. Dawes' lack of mobility once the ball hits the ground was quite telling today too. That's three times in a row that we've been caught out playing GWS with too many big men and not enough pace. They've got the wood over us now and it's not going to stop until we get some pace into our line up.

[dee-luded 2,959]

While I agree in the principle of more run through the middle, I don't agree that Bail is the answer. Think JKH or Toumpas can fill that role.

Also don't agree with Watts playing on the wing. He belongs primarily in the fwd line. Yes move forward of centre occasionally like any good half forward should but he is most effective roaming the forward half - he was excellent leading out of the fwd 50 last week.

Watts wasn't the issue tonight, it was the stoppages. Tyson, Jones, Cross, Viney, Lamumba and Vince didn't do a job either retrieving the ball or putting any pressure on (with the exception of Viney). They do their job here and players like Watts excel.

So next week we rightfully expect that those players, the leaders, do what they need and we make small changes around the edges. Replace Howe with Grimes and you get some composure and leadership (which is what I thought he showed in NAB). Replace JKH with Frost and you have the ability to release Garlett, JHK or Kent in to the middle to add speed and tackling pressure - like they did last week.

Toumpas isn't ready he's not a man just yet, lets not do a watts to him.

.... agreed Bail isn't the long-term answer but right know 7 this year will be a juggling act as we have talent that's all juvenile, & our real talent in the 24+ age bracket is thin. http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/tp-melbourne-demons?year=2015&sby=15

so we have to make do with what we have atmo. we still need to add real talent onto our list in the co$tly area of 25+ yrs.

right now I can't see any on the list, that will help us straight off the bat. so we juggle, bring in a stopper move Heritier back, add bail to a wing, bring in another crash & bash in Spencil, to hurt some bodies. & hopefully take some marks.

our legs hopefully, will feel better next week?

* we afford to have holes in our team, of those who won't 'go', when others are tired & are expected to.

this is a recipe for non effort across the side. this is how we made a soft culture, 'lazy', from around 2004 +...

Edited April 11, 2015 by dee-luded

[dee-luded 2,959]

The club is cursed;

Think we need to change our colours or something. Theres something psychological about our colours or our name the Demons, or something.

We remain the only team that doesn't play for the jumper and the only club that cant produce superstar players.

So how about a proper investigation to find out what the [censored] is wrong?

50 yrs since we had a real coach 7 leader that everyone wouldn't dare to challenge or DeeMean. the softs got rid of him & the softs have ruled most ever since... the whole place needs to be sprayed with paint stripper & scraped clean.

50 Yrs of soft, save a cameo in 81 - 92, doesn't come off easily. 5 Yrs of blood & tears to reform, then another 5 to waste after 92, then we all mates after that.

Roosy is doing another RDBarassi/Jordan effort.... Roos/Goodwin/Mccartney2015

[Ted Lasso 19,521]

We seriously lack speed through the midfield it's so one paced.

Jkh in and Kent to play on ball

[DeeSpencer 25,721]

Backline:

The back 6 is settled. It should stay that way. The first half is a better reflection of their talent than the 13 goal run.

That said:

- Howe was very very sore this week. Misson eluded to it. Not sure why really. Keep it quiet. If he's still sore then give him a week off. If a lesser effort kept him quiet then back him in.

- Jetta needs to find match fitness. His efforts around and with the ball have been fine, a dropped mark here or there aside. But he gets gassed quickly

- Lumumba might better deployed in the midfield full time and a 7th defender might need to come from somewhere else

Forwards:

- Dawes, Hogan, Frost has been the plan since early in the year. Let's give it another week at least. Hogan seemed no worse off of, if not better off for Dawes being out there

- Jack Watts did seem to suffer. But still found the footy. Still had his chance at marks that he fails to grab. One solid defensive tackle, one or two poorer ones

- I don't think we lost due to Kent, Garlett and vandenBerg. All 3 had moments.

Mids

- Clearly the big problem area.

- Jones, Tyson, Cross, Newton all got creamed when the heat was on

- Viney was ok.

- Vince ran out of puff but had moments of quality, you have to presume he improves, particularly back in Adelaide

- Lumumba can't find the same space as in the preseason

- Is 7 primary midfielders plus the sub enough? Can we afford 2 rucks and 6 other forwards? I don't think so. But how many mids do we need?

I think we need to bolster the midfield options by rotating more through half forward. But we've got half forwards who can play some time on a wing and we don't have a great variety of mids who can play well forward.

So my plan is actually no change. Newton becomes the 7th defender at half back so Lumumba stays on a wng. Brayshaw steps in to the starting 21. Vince on the wing. vandenBerg back to sub.

Frost is on notice. We have to think about a 2nd legit ruck even if Jamar plays more forward. The midfield need the service

Watts and Dawes are on notice

vandenBerg and Kent are on notice

Cross and Newton are on notice. But I still believe they are superior to those at Casey

More than anyone Dom Tyson is on notice. He has some credits in the bank but he needs to show defensive work rate, more of his spread and run the lines hard. He's a good clearance player when he's got the ball, but provides little resistance to opponents. He needs to get physical defending at the stoppage.

[monoccular 17,432]

Howe puts up another stinker like that and he can be dropped.

Won't even commit to us, not sure why he's playing.

Frawley syndrome ?

[spirit of norm smith 16,476]

out - Cross, Frost

in - Grimes, Jkh

sub. Vandenburg

[titan_uranus 25,020]

One of our big development problems over the past 8 years is that, every time we try to send someone back to VFL to work on something, we're forced to call them back up to the seniors well before we should because we keep losing and keep wanting to make changes to the side.

Toumpas and Grimes are playing VFL instead of AFL for a reason. That reason is to make them better players in the long run. Bringing them back now cuts short that development, and even if it has a short term benefit, it doesn't help them in the long term.

They should both stay at Casey until they've consistently demonstrated improvement in the areas we sent them there for.

Until then, we're going to have to make do with what we have. Adelaide has a tall forward line (Walker, Jenkins, Lynch) so we'll need three tall defenders next week - I think Frost needs to be one of those, as I'm not sure Garland and Dunn are tall enough. However, I'm inclined to drop a taller player for another runner, as I think we need to promote run through the middle as a key moving forward, so if Frost makes way in that regard I'll understand.

[DeeSpencer 25,721]

Last year we went Vince to Dangerfield, Cross to Sloane. I'd consider it again. I'd like to see what Viney can do back attacking the ball. Back Jonesy to bounce back. Get Brayshaw in the mix. Hope Newton playing a bit more half back as well finds more of the footy. Then more than anything I hope Dom Tyson can bounce back and play a good game.

[Disco Demons 92]

Did we go in to tall? Clearly lacked run today. Even though we dominated the first half scoreboard.

Toumpas and Jay Kennedy Harris are running players. But they aren't better than Vince and Dawes.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

Out, slowness and clumsiness.

In, speed and skill.

Frost stays, as does Gus. Dawes to Auskick, Toump and JKH in. No Spencil or Gawn yet, despite Jamar's complete pantsing. We were too tall this week (derrr!).

[DeeSpencer 25,721]

One of our big development problems over the past 8 years is that, every time we try to send someone back to VFL to work on something, we're forced to call them back up to the seniors well before we should because we keep losing and keep wanting to make changes to the side.

Toumpas and Grimes are playing VFL instead of AFL for a reason. That reason is to make them better players in the long run. Bringing them back now cuts short that development, and even if it has a short term benefit, it doesn't help them in the long term.

They should both stay at Casey until they've consistently demonstrated improvement in the areas we sent them there for.

Until then, we're going to have to make do with what we have. Adelaide has a tall forward line (Walker, Jenkins, Lynch) so we'll need three tall defenders next week - I think Frost needs to be one of those, as I'm not sure Garland and Dunn are tall enough. However, I'm inclined to drop a taller player for another runner, as I think we need to promote run through the middle as a key moving forward, so if Frost makes way in that regard I'll understand.

Dunn should do ok on Jenkins. Yeah he's got him for speed and height but Dunny can compete, he did the job last year. Garland or Howe can cover Lynch, he's less of a marking target than McCarthy was today. Frost is playing as the 2nd ruck for the time being. I think following similar logic to what you used (and I agree with) I think Frost should stay in his current role until going back to the VFL to play as a key defender again. That said I wouldn't be surprised at all if this is the week to change the 2nd ruck option (make it Dawes or bring in Spencer/Gawn/Pedo) and I'm not sure if that would mean giving up on Frost in that role entirely.

[DeeSpencer 25,721]

I can understand how Dawes is less mobile than JKH, but Frost is a mobile player. Watts is as well, he's in no way a tall. vandenBerg as well. So I can see how the forward line might have functioned a bit worse than last week with a change.

But we still had the 7 main mids with Kent, vandenBerg, Garlett pitching in.

So I'm not buying the too tall at all.

Our mids were smashed and in particular our best mids - Jones, Tyson and Vince just weren't up for it. Dawes in compared to JKH had absolutely no bearing on our inability to win a clearance or run with the GWS midfielders.

[wretched.sylph 164]

Riley Riley Riley.

Why does our clearance monster get overlooked when clearances are our no.1 deficiency?

I really do not understand.