The Road to StarTrak - Round 2

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

Odds still havent changed much......GWS 1.48 MFC 2.70

[mo64 5,209]

Think it was said earlier, but the idea of being too top heavy seems instead to be by design by Roos and Co. Creates some serious match up problems for the GWS back line, if we can get some decent delivery then we should see a lot of marks inside 50.

I'm backing our defenders to match up well on GWS, though there are obvious threats. Think McDonald definitely takes Cameron, Dunn will smash McCarthy and get right up his nose. Jetta to take Kelly, though I wouldn't mind him seeing him run a bit free and pick up Treloar or Greene. Worried about Treloar, what a gun.

This game will be won in the midfield, Jamar needs to have a blinder. As does Tyson and Vince needs to impact from the first minute. Think Viney needs to run a bit freer, just get him to put pressure round the ball at every stoppage. Can't allow them easy clearances.

We kicked 17 goals without any forward taking a mark through body strength, apart from VDB pushing Malceski aside, then taking an uncontested mark. If you can move the ball quickly, it doesn't matter who's on the end of the kick. Pace creates as much of a mismatch as strength.

Personally, I think we're more dangerous with 3 small forwards (Garlett, Kent, JKH), and I also believe that they offer greater defensive pressure than the additional tall. I'll be interested to see what role Frost plays, because I think we'll struggle if Hogan, Dawes and Frost are in the forward line at the same time.

[monoccular 16,041]

JKH was pretty unlucky I reckon. Did very little wrong. Just the wrong man in the wrong place at the wrong time.

He will return all the better for it, I expect. He has a good character and won't sulk.

[DeeSpencer 23,087]

We kicked 17 goals without any forward taking a mark through body strength, apart from VDB pushing Malceski aside, then taking an uncontested mark. If you can move the ball quickly, it doesn't matter who's on the end of the kick. Pace creates as much of a mismatch as strength.

Personally, I think we're more dangerous with 3 small forwards (Garlett, Kent, JKH), and I also believe that they offer greater defensive pressure than the additional tall. I'll be interested to see what role Frost plays, because I think we'll struggle if Hogan, Dawes and Frost are in the forward line at the same time.

Hoges took 3 or 4 after well timed body work.

Jamar will play 10% forward, 70% ruck. Frost will play 30% ruck, 50% forward. Hogan 85% forward. Dawes 85% forward.

In total that leads to 230% forward. So really only 2 will be in the forward line for most of the time if the rotations are managed correctly.

Watts pushes up and plays as one of the mobile forwards taking JKH's role. Frost plays closer to goal as a pacy lead type and also does a lot of defensive pressure. It's his speed that has him in the team and will allow the 3 bigs to work together.

vandenBerg has to play higher up as well. Plus the big luxury is Hogan can now be used both closer to goal and more up the ground as he and Dawes can isolate. He spend a lot of the game kind of 30-70m out for goal as the main big guy. Now he can get up the ground knowing Frost or Dawes will be in behind and he can also send Dawes out ahead of him and stay closer to goal.

[mo64 5,209]

Hoges took 3 or 4 after well timed body work.

Jamar will play 10% forward, 70% ruck. Frost will play 30% ruck, 50% forward. Hogan 85% forward. Dawes 85% forward.

In total that leads to 230% forward. So really only 2 will be in the forward line for most of the time if the rotations are managed correctly.

Watts pushes up and plays as one of the mobile forwards taking JKH's role. Frost plays closer to goal as a pacy lead type and also does a lot of defensive pressure. It's his speed that has him in the team and will allow the 3 bigs to work together.

vandenBerg has to play higher up as well. Plus the big luxury is Hogan can now be used both closer to goal and more up the ground as he and Dawes can isolate. He spend a lot of the game kind of 30-70m out for goal as the main big guy. Now he can get up the ground knowing Frost or Dawes will be in behind and he can also send Dawes out ahead of him and stay closer to goal.

Neither of Hogan's goals came from body work.

Watts' role is totally different to JKH. All his goals came from playing deep, and he doesn't apply the same defensive pressure. If I was GWS, I'd welcome Frost playing as a deep forward.

IMO, Watts, VDB and our smalls offer a greater mismatch to GWS than Hogan, Dawes and Frost.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Odds still havent changed much......GWS 1.48 MFC 2.70

Does that seem crazy long odds for us? I would have thought it closer to even money but I guess that's a sign I'm getting carried away

[DubDee 20,504]

That midfield makes me sick.

Treloar (gun), Kelly, Whitfield Shiel and Coniglio, Ward and Griffen as well.

I would stick Viney with Treloar. Cross with Ward.

Will have to go head to head with the rest.

Was feeling very confident but their midfield is very good. Or at least it will be terrific in 2 years. Agree We need to tag treloar hard

We have them beat in the key positions front

[What 18,810]

Their midfield has a lot of talent but so does ours

We still have a lot more firepower

They struggled to beat St Kilda even with Riewoldt leaving the game early

[Deecisive 1,651]

Just in case any of the players think this week will "just happen" (to use Rockets words) the coaches should make them watch the drubbing from last year on our own turf.

The betting will be very interesting to see for it, I can see it being 50/50.

Latest thinking is that making players watch their own mistakes is counter productive, need to work on what worked well, last weeks game was a better example to show the players over and over again. well until we get something better still.

[DeeSpencer 23,087]

Neither of Hogan's goals came from body work.

Watts' role is totally different to JKH. All his goals came from playing deep, and he doesn't apply the same defensive pressure. If I was GWS, I'd welcome Frost playing as a deep forward.

IMO, Watts, VDB and our smalls offer a greater mismatch to GWS than Hogan, Dawes and Frost.

The second Hogan goal likely did, I can't see a replay. Either way several of his marks did. JKH's forward pressure is overrated. It's likely a big part of why he was left out of the team. The swap is Dawes for JKH. Dawes provides similar defensive work rate and pressure, yes he's not as nimble but he's a much stronger tackler and smarter defensive worker. Frost will likely play the same minutes and role forward. Watts will still have plenty of minutes deep.

Watts makes a great marking option when matched up against a patchy (at best if not soft) Gold Coast defense, but even GWS are likely to provide more resistance with quality medium sized players like Haynes and Patfull. Until Watts shows consistently that he can be a reliable target who can compete in the air then we are better of using him as a mobile player who gets up the ground as well as deep. If Jack Watts shows himself to be Jack Gunston then fine, get him in alongside Hogan and a 2nd ruck and we are rocking, but 1 game isn't enough evidence yet.

The other thing is it's round 2. Winning is a big priority but not winning at every cost. Exposing Hogan to a full season carrying the load as the only notable tall forward is not a wise thing to do at this stage. It was fine against Gold Coast and might be fine against GWS but eventually we will play Sydney, Freo, Geel, Port and some other teams with physical key defenders who will take it to Hogan. Not to mention we will play teams who will carve up our midfield and badly limit the supply. Dawes will be important for Hogan and I'm pretty sure Hogan will be very important to Dawes, he'll take the best tall defender and the attention. The benefits right now are overwhelming in favour of getting a 2nd big man in the side IMO.

[Robbie57 1,990]

I hope we haven't gone in too top heavy in any event Vince offers more than JKH on paper. Bradshaw will be the sub based on the comments this week.

[What 18,810]

Ok now back to the discussion on the Giants game

Cant wait to watch more of this on Saturday

[DeeSpencer 23,087]

Ok now back to the discussion on the Giants game

Cant wait to watch more of this on Saturday

The way Hogan protects his team mate as much as he can and cleans up Malceski is brilliant. Then because Newton was going across him he gets the best of May.

It might just be me but Hogan doesn't even lose his feet entirely. It's brilliant.

Newton isn't quite a complete player. I want to see a bit more run from him as he's not the biggest or fastest midfielder so he'll need a high work rate. But I love his toughness, he laid a great tackle at one stage. And he gets collected here and only a few minutes later gets collected backing back for another mark. That's serious courage when you've been cleaned up once and you aren't afraid to have it happen again.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Ok now back to the discussion on the Giants game

Cant wait to watch more of this on Saturday

Just realised I watched it about 20 times before snapping out of it

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

Yawn.

[Undeeterred 2,837]

Just realised I watched it about 20 times before snapping out of it

The even better bit is the way Hogan stayed out the back and made an option, while Newton made space and kicked a goal. Really fantastic bit of play

[dee-tox 4,784]

My theory on JKH being dropped is his failure to put the clamps on first gamer Saad. From memory Saad had about three shots on goal and set up a few others. Such freedom would not sit well with Roos.

[WERRIDEE 5,206]

Injury you clown!

And then you follow it up with "poor man's Toumpas". Wow.

You're making it hard for me to respect your opinion.

Please respect my opinion I'll cry if you don't

[Nasher 33,047]

I have split the Newman/Clark stuff in to its own thread:

http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/38204-sam-newmans-comments-on-clark/

Next time I'll just delete all the posts (35 in this case) and ban the poster. DO NOT BLATANTLY HIJACK THREADS.

[Gator 16,891]

posted by Sir Paul Roos in the locked changes thread

Detail is important.

It wasn't the "Fox footy panel" that thought we were top heavy with the selection of Dawes, it was Tony Shaw, one member of the Fox footy panel.

Shaw is a dolt. The balance is fine.

EDIT: Btw, I realise you were just quoting another poster earlier.

Edited April 9, 2015 by ProDee

[Moonshadow 16,157]

Ok now back to the discussion on the Giants game

Cant wait to watch more of this on Saturday

Weak effort by Malckeski there. Looked like he wasn't interested in getting in Hogan's way!

[JV7 2,339]

Going to be interesting to see if the boys can back it up. If we were to win this week and put two wins together for the first time since god knows when we've turned the corner. Keep forgetting its in Canberra so no real home ground advantage to the Giants although they play there a few times a year. Can't wait for tomorrow, good to finally look forward to the weekend to see the dees play!

[dazzledavey36 48,694]

Weak effort by Malckeski there. Looked like he wasn't interested in getting in Hogan's way!

I dont blame him.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

win this week... next week Crows up there and then Richmond, both fixtures went in the win column for us last year, when we were an inferior team to what we are now

4-0 then Freo at the MCG

can you imagine it? let me

[Mad_Melbourne 872]

Griffin needs to be tagged, and the rest can just play accountable football.

Their midfield has a good mix of inside and outside, which ours has massively improved on, but we still need a little bit more polish.

We have a better back line and forward line in my opinion and if we can break even through the midfield we will win. Simple