Melbourne v Essendon @ Etihad Stadium - 20th March, 2015

[timD 994]

Odd that Jamar played 50% game time and Gawn only 25%. So for a quarter of the game we had no actual ruckman out there.

Big day for clangers across midfield and half-back.

Frost added a question mark to his name.

I think we're still maybe 4 or five 'genuine AFL quality' players short, and it is exposing new/young players to a lot of pressure.

Same old problem. Except, at least it is not '8 or 9 players short'.

Throw in the 'let's learn an attacking game plan to cobble onto our defensive game plan', we get some rough days.

I'm not crushed, I'll still get a membership, but I'll be nervous because we'd desperately want to notch an early win or two or things might start looking unhinged at the end of the Freo/Sydney/Hawthorn set of games round 5-7.

And that deficit is largely through our midfield.

i had a sinking feeling before the doggies game and with tonight. Our mids are not good enough. We have a talent sink-hole right through the middle of the list and none of Saty's fanboy nonsense is going to repair it. I have a horrid feeling that the truth is that we are behind every team in the competition in terms of midfield talent.

[Pates 9,660]

This was exactly what we didn't need before the start of the season, a loss to the replacement bombers. It should however be noted that they still had quality out there, but what they had over us for pretty much the entire game after half way through the second quarter was intensity. They wanted the ball, they wanted to tackle and they wanted to win.

Now all three of those last things you can actually put down as a product of it being pre-season, but if this was really about us preparing for round one and being up and about for it then that is very concerning.

Decision making is still our biggest issue. It lost us the game in the end. Viney didn't sum the situation up well at all and gifted them the goal to win the match, that is one of many instances of us doing silly things that will hurt in the H&A season. Top that off with still plenty of suspect deliverers of the ball, we are still a long way off the pace.

Positives: Garlett and Lumumba continue to be excellent pick ups. Frost keeps showing good signs, but are we going to play him as a defender or as a forward? Get him settled. Jones seems to be taking to the sole captaincy like a duck to water, shame he had very little support in the leadership department. Hogan keeps showing he's a footballer, he'll have a break out game this year that will leave the competition in fear. Salem's tackle on Chapman was awesome, and the look on his face was brilliant!

I'm going to try to put this loss behind me quickly, it's pre-season and you take every result with a grain of salt. I can handle us doing stupid mistakes now and even losing to the (replacement) Bombers, but FFS we need to learn from these mistakes, and know who's going to progress with the side. A lot of players have question marks over their heads.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Pates

[Deecisive 1,709]

tonight shattered the confidence of a team that already has a serious confidence issue. How many games do we have to see the kicking across goal cost us, either because its intercepted or because we miss the mark and loose control. While viney did make a blue he was probably honouring the request of a team mate calling for it, cross waited for the ball to come to him instead of attacking it. a lot of work still to be done with this lot and possibly next years lot as there should be another clean out at the end of this year again.

[beelzebub 23,364]

Well summed up Pates!!

[grazman 7,432]

It's always so nice to hear Roos cool and measured response to these sorts of performances. The really displeasing thing for me wasn't so much our ball use in tight it was our failure to to basic team things like block and shepherd for team mates in better positions. Matt Jones, Rohan Bail, Jordie McKenzie and Jack Grimes are constant whipping boys, but they do the team thing which is why they get games. Other more highly praised players are way too selfish - which is to say they try to do too much. Unfortunately it was some of our more experienced players who rather than laying a shepherd for a team mate with the ball ran to receive instead. I think this is probably what Roosy was referring to when he said we need to stop playing as individuals and start playing as a team.

If the top up Don's haven't been let into the game plan yet... then it just goes to show you how over rated game plans can be. Get the ball and give it to your team mate in a better position.

Edited March 20, 2015 by grazman

[ding 5,126]

Just home from a disappointing game and I've read through this thread. ding, I'm sure you have some opinions about the game, but overwhelmingly you seem to prefer to pour contempt on other posters. Just goes on and on. I wonder about the state of your soul.

Haha i dont believe for a second that you care for anyones "soul" so dont be so patronising.. And i am not a bit surprised to see the first "like" from Hardtack, who i have called out more than once for his sniping. You were both apologists for the teams ineptitude on the original Demonland and i see nothing has changed.

MFC is a joke and no amount of excuses will make us better. They thoroughly deserve all the ridicule that is coming their way.

[ding 5,126]

And these types of posts are just plain rude and uncalled for.

You want me to go back through the threads where you have needlessly trolled other posters who dared to have an opinion different to yours?

Hypocrite.

[Robot Devil 1,895]

It's always so nice to hear Roos cool and measured response to these sorts of performances. The really displeasing thing for me wasn't so much our ball use in tight it was our failure to to basic team things like block and shepherd for team mates in better positions. Matt Jones, Rohan Bail, Jordie McKenzie and Jack Grimes are constant whipping boys, but they do the team thing which is why they get games. Other more highly praised players are way too selfish - which is to say they try to do too much..

This has been a problem for years at the Dees. It really sticks in my craw when a critical yet simple aspect of the game - blocking and shepherding - is seemingly non-existent in our team.

Honestly it seems that the players will not protect their teammates when tackled and harassed whilst in possession.

Does anyone know our stats for shepherds and blocks? I imagine it's donuts.

Perhaps someone can ask the coaches why our players never (and I do not think I exaggerate one bit when I say NEVER) block or shepherd for the player with the ball. I think the one occassion I saw a shepherd last year it was by one of our imports from another club and my jaw dropped to actually see it happen.

[Emerald 1,744]

Max Gawn needs to lift....honestly, he's quite unco.....

I was watching Gawn tonight thinking he looks like one of those trees from the Lord of the rings movies when he runs.He needs to learn to stab the ball instead of lob it up in the air giving the opposition plenty of time to intercept.

[Earl Hood 6,086]

And that deficit is largely through our midfield.

i had a sinking feeling before the doggies game and with tonight. Our mids are not good enough. We have a talent sink-hole right through the middle of the list and none of Saty's fanboy nonsense is going to repair it. I have a horrid feeling that the truth is that we are behind every team in the competition in terms of midfield talent.

We are now nearly 8 years into a rebuild, how long should it take to build a competitive midfield? I remember back in the late 90's we managed to do it in one or two seasons, selecting the McDonalds, TJ, Leoncelli, Rigoni, Powell and were back up and running. That seems impossible these days. We have spent a lot of top 10 picks on midfielder types since 2007 and so far it seems we have failed to find one elite so far. Tyson may get there but we need 3 or 4 more A graders.

[grazman 7,432]

MFC is a joke and no amount of excuses will make us better. They thoroughly deserve all the ridicule that is coming their way.

Don't you mean WE.

Let's not forget that most of us sold the farm for a handful of magic beans called Tom and Jack. You reap what you sow. I doubt that the club will worry too much about the 'ridicule' of losing a preseason match. It has a lot of experience in being embarrassing in its recent history. I doubt that they'll dwell on it as much as the armchair experts, I think they'll probably try and address the problems ahead of a match for actual premiership points.

Edited March 20, 2015 by grazman

[DeeSpencer 25,687]

Just watched the Roos presser. Puts it in to perspective well.

Clearly Roosy believes that we still have a long way to go to bridge the gap between our best and our worst, and that we need to get into the team mentality more than the 'I' mentality. Once we begin to do this we'll be a better team for longer.

Dropping chest marks, kicking out on the full off a step, handballing to stationary targets. I don't see how these are individual or team things.

Simple things like punching the ball clear in a marking contest, they are just so badly lacking. Jetta and Vandenberg both made some strong spoils today, clearing the ball out of the area. So often the ball just runs over the back from marking contests. We've got our main key defender who can't even spoil with both arms, heck he can't even spoil when coming over the top of an opponent for a clear spoil. We've got Garland who can't track an opponent without holding. Key forwards who can't hold simple marks. Midfielders who can't tackle or have no understanding of space and where to dish a handball to help. Half backs with no footskills. Half forwards and wings with no speed. We don't defend the mark with a purpose. We don't even interchange properly. Too often we change at the wrong moments and have 16 on the field. Basic stuff. Defenders only should interchange after a goal or right at the start of a set shot for goal. Same for mids unless the stoppage is right on the interchange gates.

We lost our way with intensity tonight. It happens. But then we got it back and had the lead in the last quarter. You could tell we started playing with purpose, got some good forward entries and had saved face. But then simple skill error after simple skill error lost us the game and ruined a few good chances to win it back!

[ding 5,126]

Don't you mean WE.

Let's not forget that most of us sold the farm for a handful of magic beans called Tom and Jack. You reap what you sow. I doubt that the club will worry too much about the 'ridicule' of losing a preseason match. It has a lot of experience in being embarrassing in its recent history. I doubt that they'll dwell on it as much as the armchair experts, I think they'll probably try and address the problems ahead of a match for actual premiership points.

LOL yeah coz WE have "addressed" it really well for the past decade havent WE?

[jumbo returns 6,741]

I was watching Gawn tonight thinking he looks like one of those trees from the Lord of the rings movies when he runs.He needs to learn to stab the ball instead of lob it up in the air giving the opposition plenty of time to intercept.

He runs? He ain't the Magic Faraway Tree, that's for sure....

[grazman 7,432]

Key forwards who can't hold simple marks.

You mean our really experienced Key Forwards like Hogan and Frost? Maybe Vandenberg's dropped mark? They will get better.

[olisik 4,060]

Jetta is a class act, will be pushing for AA this year.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Jetta is a class act, will be pushing for AA this year.

Now this is one player I really underestimated.....Roos has reinvented this bloke.

Well done, Nev.

[grazman 7,432]

LOL yeah coz WE have "addressed" it really well for the past decade havent WE?

I think you missed the point.

[What 18,810]

Interesting that we only used 21 players tonight, as McKenzie never left the sub vest

if the Bombers used all their players then the loss isnt that bad tbh

[DeeSpencer 25,687]

We are now nearly 8 years into a rebuild, how long should it take to build a competitive midfield? I remember back in the late 90's we managed to do it in one or two seasons, selecting the McDonalds, TJ, Leoncelli, Rigoni, Powell and were back up and running. That seems impossible these days. We have spent a lot of top 10 picks on midfielder types since 2007 and so far it seems we have failed to find one elite so far. Tyson may get there but we need 3 or 4 more A graders.

I still do think Jones, Tyson, Vince, Lumumba and Cross (as a tagger) are up to AFL standard. I also have a lot of time for Jack Viney despite his mistakes today. He wins the ball, he tackles, he's got enough burst and he actually plays for the team. After that I have concerns about whether anyone else can beat their direct opponent. Salem is a midfielder of the future but is the biggest case of robbing Peter to pay Paul if we move him from half back.

Matt Jones runs around and can find it but makes terrible errors. Ben Newton has a nice boot on him and has a dip but I get the feeling he lacks speed, size or endurance to have a weapon. Michie's the same. Toumpas is miles away. Aidan Riley is worth a shot as well but can't get fit.

I really think we are looking at playing half forwards like Kent, JKH and Watts and hoping they can contribute some midfield minutes. Then after that we have to wait and see what Brayshaw, Petracca, Stretch, Neal-Bullen, Harmes etc can offer.

Vandenberg had a look at the midfield in the 3rd quarter tonight and found it tough going I think. It's a lot to expert a rookie from the NEAFL to bolster your midfield. Shows where we are at. So I'll settle for him making a go of it at half forward for now but who knows after another preseason he might find a gear, he's got the tools.

Overall our perilously weak midfields of the Neeld years have probably been balanced out by Tyson, Vince and Lumumba's additions and now I think it's fair to say we have a very even team. The backline and forward line and midfield are all equally trash.

[DeeSpencer 25,687]

Interesting that we only used 21 players tonight, as McKenzie never left the sub vest

if the Bombers used all their players then the loss isnt that bad tbh

We used 23. Both teams had 22 and 2 subs. They used both subs. We only used 1.

Both teams had rucks as subs. Essendon subbed Giles for McKernan at half time. We subbed Jamar for Gawn at 3/4 time. I doubt that did much for either sides run so really for us it was pretty much having 22 on for most of the game.

Essendon subbed off someone to have a sub for the last quarter and brought on Marcus Marigliani, a dominant VFL midfield (think better version of Magner) who had 8 disposals in 25% TOG. 7 were uncontested so really just came on a provided another fresh option. We could've brought on our own VFL champ in McKenzie but didn't. That might have been worth a few points difference and changed the result but a bad night is still a bad night.

Essendon had 3 fill ins play (besides Marigliani) - Freezer, a young KPD who didn't do much and Dawes and Frost got space from (but didn't use). Clint Jones who played a lot on Tyson and as he did found the footy but can't kick and Mitch Brown, who had the better of Hogan and really should be on an AFL list.

I'm not annoyed we lost to those 3 fill ins.

I'm annoyed that next to them were Gwilt, McKernan (the original top ups) and a bunch of kids like Ashby, Dalgleish, Kavanagh, Gleeson, Fantasia, Hams, Langford, Laverde, Edwards and so on. First to 3rd year players of very limited AFL experience. Our half forwards should've had a field day. Our backs cleaned up easily against youngsters and our mids who weren't head to head with Chappy, Goddard, Zaharakis and Jones should've been crushing young and inexperienced opponents. Instead besides Lumumba so many of our guys made their opponents look like the fitter, faster, stronger and more mature team.

[Bang Bang Bang 5,826]

I did chuckle at those that were saying during the week anything less than a 60+ point win would be unacceptable. I honestly don't think we could even do that to a VFL side at present, and the Dons to be fair were a lot stronger than what most were expecting.

Still, to actually lose to them is atrocious! We were meant to be at full-strength? And to not just lose, but to lose the way we did, in such a characteristic fashion. This will hurt membership sales in the next couple of weeks.

We've been saying this for a decade now, and still yet to win one, but Round 1 is absolutely vital now. Win and all is forgiven, the memory of this terrible pre-season campaign is instantly wiped out. Lose badly, and the spotlight will be turned onto us once again.

[DoreenDee 59]

I did chuckle at those that were saying during the week anything less than a 60+ point win would be unacceptable. I honestly don't think we could even do that to a VFL side at present, and the Dons to be fair were a lot stronger than what most were expecting.

Still, to actually lose to them is atrocious! We were meant to be at full-strength? And to not just lose, but to lose the way we did, in such a characteristic fashion. This will hurt membership sales in the next couple of weeks.

We've been saying this for a decade now, and still yet to win one, but Round 1 is absolutely vital now. Win and all is forgiven, the memory of this terrible pre-season campaign is instantly wiped out. Lose badly, and the spotlight will be turned onto us once again.

[P-man 13,366]

I did chuckle at those that were saying during the week anything less than a 60+ point win would be unacceptable. I honestly don't think we could even do that to a VFL side at present, and the Dons to be fair were a lot stronger than what most were expecting.

Still, to actually lose to them is atrocious! We were meant to be at full-strength? And to not just lose, but to lose the way we did, in such a characteristic fashion. This will hurt membership sales in the next couple of weeks.

We've been saying this for a decade now, and still yet to win one, but Round 1 is absolutely vital now. Win and all is forgiven, the memory of this terrible pre-season campaign is instantly wiped out. Lose badly, and the spotlight will be turned onto us once again.

I think that should be remembered too. Essendon didn't look like a VFL side. They made for a decent opponent tonight if we're being honest.

If that is their depth then they are going to be well up there this season if they can somehow avoid bans.

[Lord Travis 10,729]

At the ground now and have a feeling we'll lose. I think it's years of conditioning losing the unloseable :/

Sorry if I jinxed us guys. As soon as I got to that sh*thole of a stadium there were just bad vibes in the air. I was surrounded by drunken Essendon supporters singing and whinging and it just seemed like we would lose.

The boys were missing basic shots in the warm ups, Hogan missing from about 20 out, Dawes missing the lot from 40, and Matt Jones dropped a basic mark and then slipped over. That pretty much set the tone.

After the first 15 minutes there was no intensity from our boys. Even Nathan Jones didn't look like he wanted to be there.

Positives

- Vandenberg looks the goods. He's hard at it, has decent skills and reads the play well. Pity he missed that goal, but good performance all round. From a distance he looks like a young David Schwarz. It's the floppy hair, big build and throwing the body around. He's already ahead of a few on the senior list IMO.

- Garlett and Lumumba look the goods as well. Though both missed a few gettable kicks, they are both involved and gave run. Jeffy is an exciting player to watch! Few great grabs and runs. Love him! Shudder to think where we'd be with Terlich off half back instead of Lumumba.

- Watts looked comfortable for the most part. Dawes finally clunked a few marks and provided a presence. Good to see them both take a few grabs a kick a few goals. Hopefully they get confidence from that.

- ​Dunn was better today after a few off matches. Apart from one shanked kick out he was back to being general of the backline and helping control play.

Negatives

- Hogan fumbled and got out-wrestled by someone 10kgs lighter than him. He's a kid so it doesn't matter at this stage, but it wouldn't be good for his confidence. I don't want him to get Melbourne-a-fied and lose that aura he has, the swagger and attitude.

- My boy Dom Tyson again has untidy disposal tonight. He's been poor all NAB series, hopefully he's just rusty and tidies it up for the season proper.

- Frost in the ruck, and mostly up forward. He really struggled in the ruck and gets frustrated easily. He's given away a few frees and a 50 this NAB series from shoving guys around needlessly. From what I've seen at GWS and this NAB series he is a natural defender. He's got good closing speed and is better at shutting down a contest than clunking a mark. He's got a lot of pace which would could use to move the ball out of defence. Up forward he can't use his pace, he doesn't clunk many marks, and his shots for goal are poor. End the experiment and let him settle down back. If he is playing ruck and key forward in the season proper then we are in trouble.

- Jack Viney had a shocker. Poor decision making, poor disposal, poor game sense. He needs to forget that game ever happened and move on. I love his attitude and hard work, but he needs to tidy up his game to keep his place and become a leader going forward.

- Bail did a whole lot of nothing. All he is good for is providing run and covering lots of ground. If he doesn't give us run and his opponent gives them run instead, what good is he?!

- Matt Jones. Just Matt Jones in general. He is a negative. Having him on the ground is playing with a man down, that's how detrimental he is. I didn't think he was that bad in the past, sometimes he gives a bit of run, but after paying more attention to him it's easy to see why he has been getting such a hard wrap on here. In the second half my Essendon supporting mate made a game of following him, and sure enough he made mistake after mistake and was involved in a number of Essendon scoring chains. I don't care if he has a mature body, until he is gone from our team we will remain anchored to the bottom of the ladder. Get rid of him.

We lost to a sub-standard VFL team. They weren't even a VFL team that plays together, it was a bunch of guys selected from different teams shoved together so a match could be held. We lost to them. That is downright embarrassing, even if it is NAB cup. Guys like Nathan Jones should be absolutely gutted tonight for what just happened. I still can't believe it myself. What a sh*t weekend.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Lord Travis