Jump to content
  • Podcast: Glen Bartlett Interview &      

Sign in to follow this  
rpfc

AFL - Trade players against their will?

Recommended Posts

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-01-16/trading-against-players-will

The AFL website is letting their 'journalists' have an opinion on things - this time it is whether players should be traded against their will ie. clubs can trade their contract at their will.

This will lead to nothing of course, but it is a huge plank in a more even competition.

I know there are a few who agree with Michael Whiting in the link above but I have to say that I have not heard a compelling argument that is congruous with the draft that we have come to be very comfortable with.

Jennifer Phelan brings out the populism with 'the players have too much power' but it isn't really that - it's the ability for teams to improve themselves using the only real commodities in footy - the players.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Billy Beane: Jeremy, you've been traded to the Phillies. This is Ed Wade's number. He's a good guy, he's the GM. He's expecting your call. Buddy will help you with the plane flight. You're a good ballplayer, Jeremy, and we wish you the best.

I found it very refreshing watching a scene like that unfold in Moneyball.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I quite like the idea, but it will never get through.

It should have been packaged with FA as a take both or leave both deal

Great point, it's not too late. AFL please themselves when it suits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think being under contract makes you an asset to the club, as said clubs asset the club should have the ability to send a contracted player to any team for the best deal.

Just like freen agency, when a player is a free agent he can go to any club that offers the best deal.

Equalisation at its finest.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I sit on the fence for this issue. If players get the free agency limit pushed down to 6 years and compensation is removed giving clubs the ability to trade players without their consent is a fair compromise.

Michael Whiting's paragraph had some poor arguments in it, the only reasonable point he made was in regards to a players mental health if they're constantly bounced around. To cover this a clause could be inserted stating that if it's a players first contract with a club then they can't be traded.

Whiting's main points can be easily rebutted:

- It's a basic workers right to choose where they work - a) no it's not, it's a workers right to choose where they work within limits and b) they're not basic workers. Seriously, how many people are working at their employer of choice, or even their industry of choice, let alone doing their dream job. I can assure you that I'm not photographing playboy models.

- Can you imagine a homesick player being traded away from where they want to be? Don't sign that long term contract then. Pretty simple stuff.

- Taking away the right to choose your employer is a step too far. Neither you or I have that problem, so why should players? - Refer to the points above and I may add, if they don't like where they're being sent they can tear up their contract and become a 'basic worker'.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think its one of those areas where culture has to move, and no amount of 'law' will bring real change without it.

"You're being traded to Brisbane"

"But I hate Brisbane, and my family is in Melbourne"

"Tough"

Headline: VICTORIAN-BASED FOOTBALL CLUB ARE A PACK OF ****S, PLAYERS WANT OUT

The only real way forward is a steady cultural change towards mutual respect and a new kind of 'loyalty' based on honest, fair dealing in good faith.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I sit on the fence for this issue. If players get the free agency limit pushed down to 6 years and compensation is removed giving clubs the ability to trade players without their consent is a fair compromise.

Michael Whiting's paragraph had some poor arguments in it, the only reasonable point he made was in regards to a players mental health if they're constantly bounced around. To cover this a clause could be inserted stating that if it's a players first contract with a club then they can't be traded.

Whiting's main points can be easily rebutted:

- It's a basic workers right to choose where they work - a) no it's not, it's a workers right to choose where they work within limits and b) they're not basic workers. Seriously, how many people are working at their employer of choice, or even their industry of choice, let alone doing their dream job. I can assure you that I'm not photographing playboy models.

- Can you imagine a homesick player being traded away from where they want to be? Don't sign that long term contract then. Pretty simple stuff.

- Taking away the right to choose your employer is a step too far. Neither you or I have that problem, so why should players? - Refer to the points above and I may add, if they don't like where they're being sent they can tear up their contract and become a 'basic worker'.

It's all a lot simpler if you consider players to be employed by the AFL, not individual clubs which can only divvy-up the salary cap.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A good club will keep its players and attract new ones.

A club run like the MFC was under the previous regime will be a shambles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think its one of those areas where culture has to move, and no amount of 'law' will bring real change without it.

"You're being traded to Brisbane"

"But I hate Brisbane, and my family is in Melbourne"

"Tough"

Headline: VICTORIAN-BASED FOOTBALL CLUB ARE A PACK OF ****S, PLAYERS WANT OUT

The only real way forward is a steady cultural change towards mutual respect and a new kind of 'loyalty' based on honest, fair dealing in good faith.

The US has dealt with this issue - as Roos has stated, and sue mentions in this thread - the contract parameters need to be changed where players are contracted by the league, therefore they can be moved anywhere.

If players take great exception, they can retire, take a two year holiday and came back through the draft. Or they can leave the game. You don't HAVE to play AFL, if professional football is not for you, it's not for you.

The AFL has set the precedent with the draft; players get drafted to teams whether they want to go there or not - it is not a great jump to trading them against their will.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The fact is being an AFL footballer is not a 'normal' job. The players get a fantastic salary(most of them) at s young age. They get looked after and have great perks and semi-celebrity status. So to have that privilege they should have to deal with what comes their way.

The AFL is now just a business, as a club I would want the freedom to improve the business. Being able to trade freely would do that. If the AFLPA wanted free agencies then the clubs should have freedom also.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The fact is being an AFL footballer is not a 'normal' job. The players get a fantastic salary(most of them) at s young age. They get looked after and have great perks and semi-celebrity status. So to have that privilege they should have to deal with what comes their way.

The AFL is now just a business, as a club I would want the freedom to improve the business. Being able to trade freely would do that. If the AFLPA wanted free agencies then the clubs should have freedom also.

Your first paragraph assumes a fantastic salary, great perks and celebrity status are the norm and indeed what every player desires. Not sure that is the case IDIG. My understanding is the average AFL player plays just 4 senior games. I could be a bit out on that number though. I would have thought that most AFL players want to play in the seniors regularly, play finals footy and play with their mates. Obviously if they do this the money they earn will increase.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep all for trading between clubs of contracted players - as per many of the reasons previously noted in other threads.Uncontracted the player should have a say and the right to veto. My only additional thought is - if a player is traded while contracted, it should not affect his Free Agent status - ie if he has been at Melbourne for 3 years and we traded him while contracted - those 3 years are included in the allocated FA years. If an uncontracted player wishes to move then he starts again

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep all for trading between clubs of contracted players - as per many of the reasons previously noted in other threads.Uncontracted the player should have a say and the right to veto. My only additional thought is - if a player is traded while contracted, it should not affect his Free Agent status - ie if he has been at Melbourne for 3 years and we traded him while contracted - those 3 years are included in the allocated FA years. If an uncontracted player wishes to move then he starts again

So what if we trade a player after 5 years? Can he leave his next club after 6 years as a FA having been there for only 1 year? The second club might find that to be a disincentive. I think there will a number of grey areas re trading players against their will that may need to be dealt with on a case by case basis.

Interesting the idea of players being contracted by the AFL rather than by clubs. Could this be seen as further centralising power to the AFL and removing club control?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if fa drops to 6 years it will be the death of the big fellas

whose going to take one on to slowly develop for 4 or more years to have him walk?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your first paragraph assumes a fantastic salary, great perks and celebrity status are the norm and indeed what every player desires. Not sure that is the case IDIG. My understanding is the average AFL player plays just 4 senior games. I could be a bit out on that number though. I would have thought that most AFL players want to play in the seniors regularly, play finals footy and play with their mates. Obviously if they do this the money they earn will increase.

I never said all of them do, I agree some don't get paid that much. But I'd imagine those players would be happy to play anywhere to get more opportunities so being traded wouldn't bother them too much. The reason I want this is because of FA. If they took away free agency then I'd be happy for it to stay the way it is. However, at the moment we have players with all the power and the clubs can't do anything and have basically no power. It has to be a two-way street.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I never said all of them do, I agree some don't get paid that much. But I'd imagine those players would be happy to play anywhere to get more opportunities so being traded wouldn't bother them too much. The reason I want this is because of FA. If they took away free agency then I'd be happy for it to stay the way it is. However, at the moment we have players with all the power and the clubs can't do anything and have basically no power. It has to be a two-way street.

Sorry mate, I didn't mean to say that you said all. But what you say reeks of broad, sweeping statements that are just not accurate. To say that those who don't get paid much would be happy to play elsewhere and that being traded wouldn't bother them too much is just not true. I know a number of recent fringe players who have been on afl lists who went back to suburban comps rather than move interstate to keep in the system. And I've heard of many, many more. The average is four games per AFL listed player... four games. And to say that players have all the power and the clubs have nothing is borderline hyperbole. Have a look at this list from 2014 and tell me how many of these players had power over their respective clubs...

http://www.afl.com.au/news/features/retirements-and-delistings

Edited by Moonshadow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if fa drops to 6 years it will be the death of the big fellas

whose going to take one on to slowly develop for 4 or more years to have him walk?

Smart clubs just on the rookie list. They are already poached just before they hit their peak quite often. And they are signed up on long term deals despite offering nothing (see Jake Spencer or Shaun Hampson).

My issue with the current free agency is I think it's flawed and it's created this crazy trade market.

I'm all for:

- 6 year unrestricted free agency

- 5th and 6th year franchise tag years at big wages

- 4 year restricted free agency with the right to match a contract

- 1-4 year draftee contracts that are tradeable

So pretty much you enter the draft and you are treated as an asset by clubs. Once you hit 4th year you get some freedom to move. Once you hit 6th year you can do what you like.

It's harsh on first to 4th year players. But that increases the value of the draft. And clubs will be compassionate to players in harsh situations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The players have far too much power and it's only getting worse (i.e Ryder, Beams, Clark).

Implementing this would give some of the power back to the clubs. I like the concept of all players being employed by the AFL so being traded/drafted by clubs should be part & parcel of the trade (regardless of player consent), if you want to play this game at the highest level then it's something you have to accept.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was having a think about this last night, why don't they reduce the Veterans list eligibility from 10 years to be in line with unrestricted free agency? Currently clubs get an 'allowance' to spend on each veteran player, which is equivalent to approx 1.3% (approx. $130-$140,000) of the salary cap per player.

I'm not sure it would help in retaining players a great deal, as the better players typically leave for success, but it makes sense to me to have them start at the same time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry mate, I didn't mean to say that you said all. But what you say reeks of broad, sweeping statements that are just not accurate. To say that those who don't get paid much would be happy to play elsewhere and that being traded wouldn't bother them too much is just not true. I know a number of recent fringe players who have been on afl lists who went back to suburban comps rather than move interstate to keep in the system. And I've heard of many, many more. The average is four games per AFL listed player... four games. And to say that players have all the power and the clubs have nothing is borderline hyperbole. Have a look at this list from 2014 and tell me how many of these players had power over their respective clubs...

http://www.afl.com.au/news/features/retirements-and-delistings

Delistings happen every year, once the player is out of contract the club is free to do what they want. If they are in contract then the club is obliged to pay them out, as we saw with Michael Evans. If a player would prefer to play in the local leagues then that is their choice (I know a lot of players get paid very well in the country leagues). My argument is in regards to FA and recent events (such as players who have been in the system 1-2 years asking to be traded to a certain club). The AFL and AFLPA created FA to be more in line with what happens in the USA, however as mentioned in the USA in sports such as NFL, teams can trade a player wherever they like. It gives the players greater freedom to move and also gives the teams greater freedom to build the best side they can. I personally don't like FA, but if they are going to try and make it even easier for players to move then they also have to make it easier for clubs to trade. That's my opinion anyway, which we are all entitled too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Delistings happen every year, once the player is out of contract the club is free to do what they want. If they are in contract then the club is obliged to pay them out, as we saw with Michael Evans. If a player would prefer to play in the local leagues then that is their choice (I know a lot of players get paid very well in the country leagues). My argument is in regards to FA and recent events (such as players who have been in the system 1-2 years asking to be traded to a certain club). The AFL and AFLPA created FA to be more in line with what happens in the USA, however as mentioned in the USA in sports such as NFL, teams can trade a player wherever they like. It gives the players greater freedom to move and also gives the teams greater freedom to build the best side they can. I personally don't like FA, but if they are going to try and make it even easier for players to move then they also have to make it easier for clubs to trade. That's my opinion anyway, which we are all entitled too.

Agreed IDIG, there should be a balance between where players want to go and what trades the clubs want to do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Social Media

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles

    SOUTH OF THE BORDER by the Oracle

    Thankfully they moved this week’s game from Sydney where the sun shines and the virus breeds ever so slowly and almost nobody returns a positive test. The change of fixture comes at precisely the right time to allow everyone in town to head to the MCG on Sunday at around 3:30pm, not to catch up with what’s going on inside the ground but rather, to do what’s fashionable for woke folk in 2020 — pulling down statues. It’s time for Kevin Bartlett and Leigh Matthews to go but you can’t touch Norm Smi

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    LESSONS IN LOSING by George on the Outer

    Turn up for the game and look like you want to win it.  Melbourne lost this game to Geelong, a game after a couple of extended breaks, looking like they were at the end of a 22 game season. Right from the start there was a lack of intensity across the board, as the Demons played exactly the type of game that the ageing Geelong list wanted. Geelong repeatedly played possession footy, to avoid having to run those ageing legs, something that Melbourne failed to exploit.  To use the oft quot

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    QUARRANTINO by Whispering Jack

    At a little after 4.00pm last Saturday, the MCG ceased to be the centre of the AFL universe. That was when the AFL’s el supremo Gil McLaughlin announced that the Bombers’ Conor McKenna had returned a COVID-19 positive result and declared that the game set for the following day between Essendon and Melbourne was postponed.  What followed was truly the stuff of a pulp fiction novel. We witnessed a suitcase load of mental gymnastics and spin calculated to let McKenna (and the Essendon Football

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    WHADDA WE SING? by Whispering Jack

    When the Melbourne team sang “The Grand Old Flag” last Saturday at Marvel Stadium in the absence of skipper Max Gawn, Ed Langford and Adam Tomlinson who were first time winners at their new club and Jayden Hunt, the leading goal kicker of the day it was passed off as an honest mistake. Taken in isolation, it most probably was accidental but the problem is that little accidents have been happening far too often in the club’s recent history and, in this case, it was symptomatic not only of a day t

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    A POINT OF DIFFERENCE by George on the Outer

    It was Melbourne v Carlton at the comics stadium; a game between 16 and 17 in 2019. How could anyone pick a winner?  There had to be a point of difference, and so it would prove to be as the Demons literally fell over the line at the end, by a solitary point. In an almost complete replica of the Richmond v Collingwood game two nights previously, one of the sides (Melbourne in this case) rushed out to a five goal lead in the first quarter, while the Blues failed to bother the goal umpir

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    EXPOSED FORM by The Oracle

    Carlton fancies itself to beat Melbourne at Marvel Stadium on Saturday and, based on exposed form, why not? The Blues took it right up to the reigning premiers in their last up start and the Demons were simply horrible against the Eagles at Optus Stadium. That opening game of the season revived all of the nightmares of 2019 for a team that went inside the 50 metre arc 45 times, an advantage of 10 times over the home side and yet lost by almost five goals. Such statistics sum it up for a gam

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    SOCIAL DISTANCING by George on the Outer

    It was good to see the MFC players practicing the directives about social distancing at the game against West Coast.  Pity was that they continued to do so after the first bounce of the ball, as they allowed numerous WCE players run around un-hindered, with not a Melbourne player within 1.5 metres of them! They then found themselves looking at nearly a 5 goal deficit at the first break, which was to be essentially the final margin for the game. It is difficult to judge exactly what is going

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    BEST IN SHOW by Whispering Jack

    I am writing this knowing that the AFL has deemed that the opening round of competition will proceed but fully believing that it should not.  The world is going through cataclysmic change as a result of the overwhelming spread of the Covid-19 virus and I agree that a distraction like sport would be good for the public. However, while the physical threat to the population is bad enough, there are other  issues to be addressed including the mental health of the community and the effects on th

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    TASSIE DEVILS by Van Demon

    If you were looking for something new from the Demons that wasn’t there last year, you didn’t have to look further than the perfectly trimmed grass surface of UTAS Stadium last night as the team steamrolled the Hawks to record a comprehensive 32-point victory to complete their Marsh Community Series commitments for 2020. One new thing was the fact that for the second Marsh game in a row, the team finished full of running and they dominated the second half without the presence or the dominan

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    SOUTH OF THE BORDER by Paddy Gosch

    The Demons will go into their final Marsh Series match with a strong lineup against the Hawks in Tasmania. Both Max Gawn and Steven May, who were recovering from injuries in first Marsh Series match, have both been named. It is unclear whether Max will be on restricted minutes and will likely get breaks in the ruck with Sam Weideman and rookie Luke Jackson getting their turns in the middle. Angus Brayshaw will be getting his first taste of competitive football despite playing in last week’s

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    KANGAROO CAUGHT by Whispering Jack

    There was a fair amount of debate in our area as to whether the game warranted a full blown match report because it was felt that it was really an elevated version of a training session with match simulation but against a team in opposition colours. Although notionally the stronger side, North seemed to be using the occasion for the purpose of working on aspects of their game plan, one of the features of which seemed to be based on taking the longest possible route out of defence and good luck w

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    JUST AN ABERRATION by Whispering Jack

    Melbourne unveiled its top recruits with new fitness boss Darren Burgess and mid-sized bull Christian Petracca sharing top billing in the team’s Marsh Community Series opener in front of 3,095 football starved fans at Casey Fields and thousands of others watching on screens of various shapes and sizes.  What they saw was a different Melbourne to the one that failed to run out its JLT Series games last year and then crashed in a heap early in the season proper with performances lacking the z

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports 4

×
×
  • Create New...