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Does anyone think we'll get oscar McDonald at 42?

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Erasing the TAC cup won't improve the standard, more likely it would do the opposite. You would still need an elite junior program for teenagers.

It's not an elite junior program - that's the problem - these kids are coming from this grounding and are floundering.

The rare exceptions can take to the AFL well, the masses are finding it tougher and tougher to make the step.

It is diminishing the power of the draft as a force of equalisation and wasting time and money of clubs - invariably the ones that cannot afford to waste time and money.

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And there would still be the U/20 State Carnivals and so forth - there would still be the 30 best in each state treated like the next coming of Jebus.

I really think that the plusses outweigh the minuses when it comes to raising the draft age.

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Back to the Thread!

nutbean, on 07 Nov 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:snapback.png

First of all - Demonland will go into Meltdown no matter who pick at pick 3 as there are such conflicting views by the posters on here.

No one will bat at eyelid at Brayshaw but I apologise in advance to our pick 3 as he will get flayed by half the posters here.

I want to take you up on your logic.

If you want to McCartin at pick 3 then you should not be questioning the recruiting staff on not picking Wines.

Expert opinion has McCartin going in the top 3 picks by almost everyone ( tell me if I am wrong)

Expert opinion in 2012 had Toumpas going in the top 4 picks and before Wines by everyone ( tell me again if I am wrong).

You can't have it both ways. You select what is considered the best at the pick by the experts - McCartin and Toumpas - or you don't and then we take a Wines/Lever/Laverde.

( disclaimer - I have stated that I have no problem moving away from what the "experts" think as the likes of Wines and Bontempelli are perfect examples of the "Experts" getting it wrong)

I consider my views "Expert" I went for Ollie Wines over Jimmy Toumpas

That's 1 zip

I now go for Mc Cartin at pick 3 if Saints don't take him first!

Now if we don't get him and he has an impact straight away and whoever else we grab doesn't have an impact straight away then that gives me

2 Zip

So who are the 'Real Experts"??

Hnmm

Remember Hogan still hasn't played and if he still continues with lingering after effects then stuffed if I want to see Pederson and Fitzy playing the key Forward roles.

And If Hogan does come up , then great for us we have potentially the best possible Forward combo we have had for some time.

Now that is sound logic !

The Levers and Laverde's are not top 3 plus DON'T FILL OUR MOST PRESSING NEEDS So why oh why would you consider them??

Nup recruiting is easy, if you can see the real wood for the trees! And remember don't go for twigs, go a few strong branches that will bear some fruit!

Edited by picket fence
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But the problem with the TAC cup is its a hybrid bastardised version of the game really. All the little kiddies in cotton wool doesnt reflect how they'll go in a 'real' game of footy and thats where all the problems associated with the great draft-lotto emanate from

Yes agreed but that is a failure of the competition itself, not because of the existence of it.

What is the alternative?

By all means adjust the TAC cup philosophies, even raise the age, but abolition of it would be stupid, and besides that it won't happen.

Edited by jabberwocky

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It's not an elite junior program - that's the problem - these kids are coming from this grounding and are floundering.

Kids will flounder, and yes the competition needs work.

Where will the good kids play?

Can't help but think that some of Demonland's wish to erase the TAC is based on our failure at the draft table. Seems like a silly reason.

It's not the TAC cup's fault that we hired Prendergast.

Edited by jabberwocky

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And there would still be the U/20 State Carnivals and so forth - there would still be the 30 best in each state treated like the next coming of Jebus.

I really think that the plusses outweigh the minuses when it comes to raising the draft age.

There is no way on earth that that is enough.

i have a bit to do with junior footy and that limited exposure will definitely lead to a failure in:

1. Preparing kids for proffessional AFL

2. Identifying the talent.

The exposure is too short and the sample too small.

Edited by jabberwocky

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There is no way on earth that that is enough.

i have a bit to do with junior footy and that limited exposure will definitely lead to a failure in:

1. Preparing kids for proffessional AFL

2. Identifying the talent.

The exposure is too short and the sample too small.

That is the identification of the best players only.

The exposure and sample is against men in the state leagues - for two years - and that will help them adjust to AFL footy and the AFL teams will be able to see more of them and see who is going to be worthy of the top picks.

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That is the identification of the best players only.

The exposure and sample is against men in the state leagues - for two years - and that will help them adjust to AFL footy and the AFL teams will be able to see more of them and see who is going to be worthy of the top picks.

There is no way that having kids go through to the VFL is a better system, in fact that would be a disaster. State teams will play the teams to win flags, not to foster development. Kids will be wasting away.

We can't disband the TAC because of Barry Prendergast. We need to get better at working within the system. Honestly this is one of the more ridiculous arguments I have seen on Demonland, certainly from some of the more learned of posters.

Edited by jabberwocky
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Juniors go through the TAC with little need for defensive skills but it doesn't mean they can't display them. They can run both ways, they can play one on one (altho there is some loose gentleman's agreement on tagging specifically). IN other words players that want to get picked up can show those skills if they choose. The ones that do I suspect will in future be the ones that get picked up.

Raising the age has too many problems with it..

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There is no way that having kids go through to the VFL is a better system, in fact that would be a disaster. State teams will play the teams to win flags, not to foster development. Kids will be wasting away.

We can't disband the TAC because of Barry Prendergast. We need to get better at working within the system. Honestly this is one of the more ridiculous arguments I have seen on Demonland, certainly from some of the more learned of posters.

I don't think this fear of development is founded on anything other than fear of what you don't know.

The TAC Cup pathway is getting further and further away from the AFL. The VFL, SANFL, and WAFL is not as useless as you seem to think they are when it comes to - doing what is best for young players and developing players.

I have first hand knowledge of a second tier league development pathway up here in the ACT and it is entirely focussed on improving players with their future drafting in mind. In the better leagues around the country that will be even more pronounced.

How about we think about this the other way around?

Why do we have to have teenagers, straight out of school (or still in), to be professional footballers in the highest league in the country?

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It was interesting to hear that Brayshaw was only 7 days too young to be drafted last year and if he had, would of been a pick in the 30's.

Funny how we're pinning our hopes on this kid being an absolute jet, whereas, had he been a week older, a club would have had him on their list as a 3rd round pick and not alot of expectation.

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I consider my views "Expert" I went for Ollie Wines over Jimmy Toumpas

That's 1 zip

Wines has peaked and is in any case over rated. The Toump will be a gun and sail past Wines. Will be viewed soon enough as a genius drafting move.

Edited by binman

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Back to the Thread!

nutbean, on 07 Nov 2014 - 09:15 AM, said:snapback.png

I consider my views "Expert" I went for Ollie Wines over Jimmy Toumpas

That's 1 zip

I now go for Mc Cartin at pick 3 if Saints don't take him first!

Now if we don't get him and he has an impact straight away and whoever else we grab doesn't have an impact straight away then that gives me

2 Zip

So who are the 'Real Experts"??

Hnmm

I just threw up.

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I don't think this fear of development is founded on anything other than fear of what you don't know.

The TAC Cup pathway is getting further and further away from the AFL. The VFL, SANFL, and WAFL is not as useless as you seem to think they are when it comes to - doing what is best for young players and developing players.

I have first hand knowledge of a second tier league development pathway up here in the ACT and it is entirely focussed on improving players with their future drafting in mind. In the better leagues around the country that will be even more pronounced.

How about we think about this the other way around?

Why do we have to have teenagers, straight out of school (or still in), to be professional footballers in the highest league in the country?

Nah mate, will have to walk away from this one in total amazement to be honest.

i would be horrified if our kids only pathway to the AFL was via the VFL and fortunately it won't happen ever. It woauld be a crazy, backwards step.

Improve the comp we have by all means.

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It was interesting to hear that Brayshaw was only 7 days too young to be drafted last year and if he had, would of been a pick in the 30's.

Funny how we're pinning our hopes on this kid being an absolute jet, whereas, had he been a week older, a club would have had him on their list as a 3rd round pick and not alot of expectation.

Also didn't play as much as those other blokes, and I'd like to see where you heard he would have went in the 30's?

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It was interesting to hear that Brayshaw was only 7 days too young to be drafted last year and if he had, would of been a pick in the 30's.

Funny how we're pinning our hopes on this kid being an absolute jet, whereas, had he been a week older, a club would have had him on their list as a 3rd round pick and not alot of expectation.

Similar situation to Petracca who would been taken from 15 onwards last year as well. Brayshaw would have been a chance to go higher than 30, played some good football last year.

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Erasing the TAC cup won't improve the standard, more likely it would do the opposite. You would still need an elite junior program for teenagers.

It will be in the interests of the WAFL, SANFL & VFL clubs to raise the standards of their development programmes because the money they get for drafted players will be their lifeblood and it wont decrease the standard, they will be playing against better bigger players and not looking like quality forwards who have only been exposed to 1 on 1

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Kids will flounder, and yes the competition needs work.

Where will the good kids play?

Can't help but think that some of Demonland's wish to erase the TAC is based on our failure at the draft table. Seems like a silly reason.

It's not the TAC cup's fault that we hired Prendergast.

The same system which currently is undertaken in WA these kids will be zoned to VFL clubs who will receive injections of cash for players drafted, which goes back into their development programmes.

They will start in the colts and move through the club system, where you will find if they are not being drafted till 20 the good kids will be playing 2 years as seniors and be AFL ready when drafted

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It was interesting to hear that Brayshaw was only 7 days too young to be drafted last year and if he had, would of been a pick in the 30's.

Funny how we're pinning our hopes on this kid being an absolute jet, whereas, had he been a week older, a club would have had him on their list as a 3rd round pick and not alot of expectation.

It's irrelevant as he wasn't able to be picked anyway. With Brayshaw we know what we will get and I'm happy with that.

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Brayshaw had injuries the year before and had no consistency in terms of games. Funny thing is that he would have been drafted at 30 on upside and talent - not due to performances. This year he put performances on the board which made him rocket up the rankings. He's also up there due to a poor showing by the key forwards this year at the championships.

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It will be in the interests of the WAFL, SANFL & VFL clubs to raise the standards of their development programmes because the money they get for drafted players will be their lifeblood and it wont decrease the standard, they will be playing against better bigger players and not looking like quality forwards who have only been exposed to 1 on 1

Those clubs exist to win senior premierships first and foremost, not to foster development pathways to the AFL.

The colts may be able to cope due to the lower numbers of elite footballers and increased geography in WA. There is no way that the VFL could cope.

TAC cup tracks many of these kids form 14 years of age, they are taught about diet, training, leadership etc etc.

The system isn't perfect but neither is democracy. The failures of the TAC system are massively over-stated by a few here and is probably due to MFCScfS or whatever you call it. It is a very good system with a few flaws. If your recruiters are good enough then those flaws will be factored into your decision making.

The fact remains that some here want to go from a system which is one designed specifically as a pathway to senior AFL football to one that is not. That is a backward step and makes no sense.

Edited by jabberwocky

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Nah mate, will have to walk away from this one in total amazement to be honest.

i would be horrified if our kids only pathway to the AFL was via the VFL and fortunately it won't happen ever. It woauld be a crazy, backwards step.

Improve the comp we have by all means.

The system isn't perfect but neither is democracy. The failures of the TAC system are massively over-stated by a few here and is probably due to MFCSS or whatever you call it. It is a very good system with a few flaws. If your recruiters are good enough then those flaws will be factored into your decision making.

I am impressed by the patronising tone...

As PSD noted, if they draft age was lifted, other things will change along with that - it won't happen in a vaccum.

I am amazed that we can't seem to continue a debate about the draft age.

In the NFL, players have to be three years removed from high school. In the NBA, you must be one year removed, this may become two years. They are becoming more comfortable with the next LeBron spending two years in College learning little and being paid nothing or getting paid to learn defence in Europe for two years.

We are not the US, and we have to find our own answer, but there are base similarities - like the fact that we have boys being thrown into a sport at 18 that is no longer something that happens in the NBA (Exum is a rare example of an International exception)and that is not supported in their football code.

Two years removed from school.

It will be good for the kids and great for the competition. Bring it in over a 6 year span by bringing the age limit up by 4 months every year.

The AFL can look at an elite U/20 Competition or they can put money into grass roots footy and their programs. These clubs would thrive on the responsibility.

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