The AFL has stuffed up the Western Sydney experiment

[titan_uranus 22,222]

The decision to go into Western Sydney was a good one. The AFL needs to be proactive and dynamic in ensuring AFL football is the dominant sport of this nation. The start had to be made at some point.

Mistakes have been made, though. Overpaying for Folau and Scully stand out as two big stuff ups - big money needed to be spent on players who would attract attention and hopefully be the faces of the new club. Folau was a disaster in all respects, whilst, even if Scully was playing well (which he isn't), he's not a good media performer so he isn't going to help much in that regard.

Nonetheless, this is a long-term project for the AFL. It's not something to be judged on 3 years of work. The goal is for AFL to become a sport of choice for kids in Western Sydney. That was never going to happen in 3 years. When GWS starts playing competitive football, improvements will begin to be seen. The effect of being an effective joke of the competition cannot be understated.

[ignition. 1,413]

Similar things could be said with our alignment to the City of Casey, so before we bag out the AFL and other clubs we should look into our own backyard first.

It too has a high cultural diversity with ~30% of the families speaking another language over English as their primary choice, many of whom are pre-exposed to soccer than the likes of AFL.

In saying this I like the concept of targeting these growing multicultural regions, although I would like to see the MFC gain a sporting partner like Melbourne Victory or Melbourne Heart with some form of joint membership entitling the owners entry to a few games of AFL and the A-League (I'm not sure of the AFL rules and regulations regarding such things). We have currently claimed the region, we just need a greater means to reach out and gain a higher proportion of its population (the soccer lovers).

REFERENCE:

http://profile.id.com.au/ngaa/language?WebID=160

[rjay 23,876]

The decision to go into Western Sydney was a good one. The AFL needs to be proactive and dynamic in ensuring AFL football is the dominant sport of this nation. The start had to be made at some point.

Mistakes have been made, though. Overpaying for Folau and Scully stand out as two big stuff ups - big money needed to be spent on players who would attract attention and hopefully be the faces of the new club. Folau was a disaster in all respects, whilst, even if Scully was playing well (which he isn't), he's not a good media performer so he isn't going to help much in that regard.

Nonetheless, this is a long-term project for the AFL. It's not something to be judged on 3 years of work. The goal is for AFL to become a sport of choice for kids in Western Sydney. That was never going to happen in 3 years. When GWS starts playing competitive football, improvements will begin to be seen. The effect of being an effective joke of the competition cannot be understated.

I agree with most of what you say here 'titan' and think there have been some big mistakes made in setting up the team. Some of this has been driven by the club leaders (Sheedy, Allen, Silvagni & co) more focussed on a premiership with a list of elite kids within 5-6 years than getting a competitive team on the park within a couple. whether the premiership goal is a reality we will get a better indication this year.

I'm not sure the goal is to become sport of choice for the kids and if it is it might be biting off a bit too much. If they get good market share of a big market they will I think have won. But why not set the bar high I guess.

[titan_uranus 22,222]

I agree with most of what you say here 'titan' and think there have been some big mistakes made in setting up the team. Some of this has been driven by the club leaders (Sheedy, Allen, Silvagni & co) more focussed on a premiership with a list of elite kids within 5-6 years than getting a competitive team on the park within a couple. whether the premiership goal is a reality we will get a better indication this year.

I'm not sure the goal is to become sport of choice for the kids and if it is it might be biting off a bit too much. If they get good market share of a big market they will I think have won. But why not set the bar high I guess.

I think in a best case scenario AFL becomes the sport of choice for kids in western Sydney (and, indeed, Australia-wide). Whether that eventuates or not remains to be seen I guess. It may only be, as you say, that they up their market share, but I'm sure the AFL's more ambitious and eventually wants to see more players coming out of NSW (and Queensland).

[Sir Why You Little 34,429]

It is a 50 year project. We will all be long gone or to old to care to really know if it was successful.

[Dees2014 2,377]

i understand what your saying but if someone in Sydney doesn't want to watch AFL, whether it's live on tv, live at a stadium or being played in their backyard they won't watch it. In Sydney every Swans and GWS game is on free to air. A lot of GWS games are on 7mate. Surely a company paying for their ad to be aired in a specified time slot would have access to the number of viewers expected, plus the possibility of paying less then you would if their ad was airing on channel 7. Then if the extra money made has to be automatically pumped back into the club to prop it up the AFL will forever be chasing their tale.

If Tasmania were the 18th club with a 25 thousand seat stadium they would less of a burden to the AFL than GWS ever will.

I'm sorry to have to disagree again. GWS is about expansion. If the AFL/VFL were concerned about "burdens" then they would never have left Victoria, never taken a risk, and never become the national and international powerhouse they are today. When the Swans went to Sydney, and the Bears/Lions went to Queensland, they were never broadcast locally on free to air live. They were usually replayed late at night much like the Storm is here, and the AFL is in the US. In other words, deadendsville. Today of course, in both states their games are not only broadcast live, often on the major free to air channels, but they get good ratings, sometimes out-rating the NRL.

We have the great advantage these days that everyone has access to free to air digital channels, which allows an emerging force like GWS to get free to air exposure, albeit on a secondary channel like 7mate, much like the NBL. It at least gives them free to air exposure and they will over time develop their own niche, just as the Wanderers do. The Wanderers after all play in a stadium which is always packed out, but it only holds about 18000, not too difficult to fill I would have thought. Any self respecting AFL side would have ambition to have more than twice that crowd to their major games, as the Swans and Brisbane regularly do. GWS will in time, especially when they move their home ground to Homebush which the Wanderers will never do.

In future, I would predict the AFL will expand next to NZ because it expands their market, and they have some interest and exposure to the AFL already. In 20 to 30 years, I would not be at all surprised to see an AFL side in South Africa, and the West Coast of the US, particularly if the AFL clubs have major successful recruiting from those markets a la Jim Stynes. Ireland is also a possibility since AFL is well known there and may provide a springboard for Europe. The distance and time zone difference is always a challenge though. India and China will always be, and should be, on the AFL radar for the next 50 years.

Unfortunately for the very faithful Tasmanian AFL fans, the AFL itself has much bigger markets to develop. Tasmania will always be a very important, albeit small market. It will not include in my view, a team of its own.

Edited January 12, 2014 by Dees2014

[Chook 14,422]

It is a 50 year project. We will all be long gone or to old to care to really know if it was successful.

Speak for yourself.

[Alcho Dee 269]

Tasmania is a massive football state....but it never gets a look because none of the players would choose to live here compared to Sydney.....

If GWS start to win games the supporters might role on in and watch....sound familiar anyone???

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,852]

The decision to go into Western Sydney was a good one. The AFL needs to be proactive and dynamic in ensuring AFL football is the dominant sport of this nation. The start had to be made at some point.

Mistakes have been made, though. Overpaying for Folau and Scully stand out as two big stuff ups - big money needed to be spent on players who would attract attention and hopefully be the faces of the new club. Folau was a disaster in all respects, whilst, even if Scully was playing well (which he isn't), he's not a good media performer so he isn't going to help much in that regard.

Nonetheless, this is a long-term project for the AFL. It's not something to be judged on 3 years of work. The goal is for AFL to become a sport of choice for kids in Western Sydney. That was never going to happen in 3 years. When GWS starts playing competitive football, improvements will begin to be seen. The effect of being an effective joke of the competition cannot be understated.

The Izzy Folau experiment went exactly as planned. No one seriously expected him to hang around for long. He was purely a marketing tool, surely you knew that. As for Scully, GWS have to pay overs to attract players. Scully spent two years with us and was predicted by many to be the next big thing. Let's be honest, when he left we thought that too. Two years on we are all wiser.

[Sir Why You Little 34,429]

Speak for yourself.

You don't age Chook??

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,852]

I'm sorry to have to disagree again. GWS is about expansion. If the AFL/VFL were concerned about "burdens" then they would never have left Victoria, never taken a risk, and never become the national and international powerhouse they are today. When the Swans went to Sydney, and the Bears/Lions went to Queensland, they were never broadcast locally on free to air live. They were usually replayed late at night much like the Storm is here, and the AFL is in the US. In other words, deadendsville. Today of course, in both states their games are not only broadcast live, often on the major free to air channels, but they get good ratings, sometimes out-rating the NRL.

We have the great advantage these days that everyone has access to free to air digital channels, which allows an emerging force like GWS to get free to air exposure, albeit on a secondary channel like 7mate, much like the NBL. It at least gives them free to air exposure and they will over time develop their own niche, just as the Wanderers do. The Wanderers after all play in a stadium which is always packed out, but it only holds about 18000, not too difficult to fill I would have thought. Any self respecting AFL side would have ambition to have more than twice that crowd to their major games, as the Swans and Brisbane regularly do. GWS will in time, especially when they move their home ground to Homebush which the Wanderers will never do.

In future, I would predict the AFL will expand next to NZ because it expands their market, and they have some interest and exposure to the AFL already. In 20 to 30 years, I would not be at all surprised to see an AFL side in South Africa, and the West Coast of the US, particularly if the AFL clubs have major successful recruiting from those markets a la Jim Stynes. Ireland is also a possibility since AFL is well known there and may provide a springboard for Europe. The distance and time zone difference is always a challenge though. India and China will always be, and should be, on the AFL radar for the next 50 years.

Unfortunately for the very faithful Tasmanian AFL fans, the AFL itself has much bigger markets to develop. Tasmania will always be a very important, albeit small market. It will not include in my view, a team of its own.

Well the team is in place now. It will be interesting to see over the next few years how many games the Giants win, can they land a superstar not someone cashing in at 27(they got well and truly bent over by Buddy as they were so confident in getting him they stopped chasing anyone else)crowd numbers, auskick numbers, junior local footy numbers, the completion of seating at the ground. If the numbers fail to steadily increase they may have to rethink it. I remember at the time when GWS were awarded the 18th license thinking that the AFL will wait for North or the Bulldogs to be on deaths door only to relocate them down south. As for players not wanting to live there, the same was said about Adelaide. Football careers last between 2 and 10 years unless your surname is Fletcher or Harvey. The next rule change should be if your club trades you, thats it, you can move where ever you want when your career is over. Arrogance is creeping into the game, look at the recent Dusty Martin sideshow.

[Sir Why You Little 34,429]

The Izzy Folau experiment went exactly as planned. No one seriously expected him to hang around for long. He was purely a marketing tool, surely you knew that. As for Scully, GWS have to pay overs to attract players. Scully spent two years with us and was predicted by many to be the next big thing. Let's be honest, when he left we thought that too. Two years on we are all wiser.

Agreed.

Izzy was there so people in NSW would at least read the paper.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Melbourne has just one NRL side because there is just enough interest to support it. The AFL should have done the same in Sydney. The Swans do well to draw the crowds they do but I would estimate that 30% of those people have little knowledge about the game

Having gone to a Sydney game at the SCG last year I would say that number is closer to 85%.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,381]

I think two mistakes have been made. One by the AFL and one by GWS.

The AFL's mistake was not going into Western Sydney about 5 years earlier. That would have made soccer's task more difficult.

GWS's big mistake (as has already been stated on here) was developing an unbalanced list primarily of talented youngsters. To some degree, they've corrected that a bit with the addition of Heath Shaw, Josh Hunt and a couple of others.

I can recall the mid-1980s when people thought expansion of the then VFL into WA and Qld, and subsequently SA "wouldn't work" and would destroy the game we love. In fact, the Victorian Premier at the time, John Cain, threatened to legislate to keep the game "Victorian". On the contrary, failure to expand would have seen the demise of Australian Football as a major code as the economics would not support 11 teams in Victoria without national TV audiences.

[DeeSpencer 23,061]

Tasmania is a massive football state....but it never gets a look because none of the players would choose to live here compared to Sydney.....

If GWS start to win games the supporters might role on in and watch....sound familiar anyone???

Tasmania has 500,000 people, most (of the relevant population) of whom already watch footy on TV. Western Sydney has over 2 million people of which very few watch footy on TV. Hobart has only 200,000 people. They could provide a consistent crowd of 20-30,000 with games split between Hobart and Launceston maybe in a 7/4 or 8/3 home split but it's not like the AFL is consistently giving up massive crowds by picking GWS over Tasmania.

AFL players would probably gladly live in Hobart, I don't think that would be an issue at all. Simply the population of Tasmania limits the viability of expanding the competition to move there. It would be incredibly stupid. What Tasmania has done is right, get teams to play matches in it's 2 biggest cities. Long term they should be trying to capture the Kangaroos for good and make them their team. Not saying I want the roos to move but that's really Tassie's biggest hope.

The AFL in hindsight would've loved to have got in to Western Sydney before soccer but in reality the game wasn't as stable 5 or 10 years ago as it is now. Soccer was always going to be successful. The real battle will be against the Western Sydney rugby league clubs and against Sydney sporting culture. If we ever want to get to 20 teams in the AFL it will take at least 3 successful clubs in Sydney I would think. The AFL should start getting struggling Melbourne clubs (us, the bulldogs, North) to play games in Northern Sydney, Gosford and Newcastle rather than Darwin, Alice Springs or Cairns.

[Slartibartfast 15,725]

GWS had two purposes IMO. The first was to ensure there was a game in Sydney every week. TV rights sustain the code and this was necessary. It's something we rely on.

Secondly GWS doesn't have to be the dominant sport in Western Sydney, it just has to have a presence, just like the Storm. Over time it will find a level and attract people. Why do you think they built such a small stadium.

Some of the implementation has been botched and the AFL would be furious with Sydney pinching Franklin but the big picture decision was right on target.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

GWS was an absolute no brainer for the AFL.

That Australia's most popular football code should have 2 teams in Sydney is beyond debate.

[DeeSpencer 23,061]

GWS had two purposes IMO. The first was to ensure there was a game in Sydney every week. TV rights sustain the code and this was necessary. It's something we rely on.

Secondly GWS doesn't have to be the dominant sport in Western Sydney, it just has to have a presence, just like the Storm. Over time it will find a level and attract people. Why do you think they built such a small stadium.

Some of the implementation has been botched and the AFL would be furious with Sydney pinching Franklin but the big picture decision was right on target.

I agree on your points although I will say - The AFL wont be too annoyed about Franklin at the swans because it will keep them relevant for a few years and then GWS can take over. Ideally both sides are relevant and in the Sydney culture but if GWS are still years away you may as well have Lance at Sydney in the mean time. And secondly they built such a small stadium at the showgrounds because it's right next to the Olympic Stadium! If by some miracle GWS start drawing big crowds they only have to move the game next door.

[Chook 14,422]

You don't age Chook??

In fifty years, I'll still have forty years left.

[McQueen 17,862]

Footscray changed it's name to the Western Bulldogs to try and capture more members from the western suburbs in general. Did it work? Not really.

The AFL went with 'Greater Western Sydney' with a similar strategy. Has it worked? Will it work? Not really.

Should've gone with the Blacktown Bogans. Scully as the poster boy.

[ILLDieADemon 804]

And then there's Gold Coast which Soccer and Basketball have both tried to establish a team up there and both failed. What hope does the AFL have?

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,852]

And then there's Gold Coast which Soccer and Basketball have both tried to establish a team up there and both failed. What hope does the AFL have?

I thought the Titans were in massive financial strife too.

[Carrot Top 947]

If the AFL/VFL were concerned about "burdens" then they would never have left Victoria, never taken a risk, and never become the national and international powerhouse they are today.

Lol. Are you sure we're taking about the same code?

[beelzebub 22,225]

GWS was an absolute no brainer for the AFL.

That Australia's most popular football code should have 2 teams in Sydney is beyond debate.

Not quite so...it needed 2 teams in a familial market. That ought to have been an ACT team and Sydney. ACT has history with Footy.. ppl actually will watch and be interested. They dont take to it quite so passionately if the team isn't called Canberra though. That was the no -brainer.

GWS is pushing shlt uphill....for ever.

[LooseLou 20]

Having moving up to Brisbane (late 2012) I have been to a number of Brisbane and GC (non MFC) games on my own just to get my footy fix. It is certainly my perception that the Brissie crowd are there for a social occassion; their attention to the game is loose and certainly the crowd in the outer is heavily into catching up with friends, having a drink and generally chatting about things other than football. This social aspect was quite distracting when you are trying to concentrate on the game (mind you the lack of clothing material that some females paraded was quite distracting as well). The GC crowd on the other hand was much more what I would call footabll orientated - more attuned to the ebbs and flows of the game.

Given the (limited) experience I have had with the two teams, the GC supporters are much more like the traditional supporters back in Melbourne; passoniate about their team, bag the opposition and the umpires and to me represent a much healthier proposition to the growth of the game in this market. The Brisbane crowd are much more like the Sydney crowd and will get on board when the team is flying but will be quite passive when not going so well.