Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[jnrmac 19,905]

This gets weirder. So I thought ASADAs investigations were finished? Isn't that what they said recently?

How is it the investigation is finished and now ASADA calls Dank in?

Maybe they investigated everyone else, now they have their evidence they call Dank in and he (as the architect of the program) gets grilled. Any charges will be against him and players will get infraction notices.....

Who knows..

[rjay 24,615]

Exclusive report by Danny Weidler. Dank complains his disclosure notice was leaked. By whom to whom? 2/3

Only Dank and ASADA knew about the notice, so who leaked???

...I wonder

[Gorgoroth 12,712]

All 34 they are saying is only about Essendon, none Cronulla.

[Cards13 9,117]

Wow

[Sir Why You Little 36,668]

Bomber Thompson won't see out the year. He looked so stressed last week on TV

The guy is not sleeping. He has no chance now

[Carrot Top 947]

On Waffle360 they are saying the HUN just reported that all 34 violations relate to Essendon and none to Cronulla... queue The Doors...

Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.

Winston Churchill said that and he was pretty smart when he wasn't drunk.

[Dees2014 2,377]

I'm not interested in the "legalities" of this case. The law is usually a dope unable to cope with the unlimited number of differing situations that can occur and this is one such time.

I'm very concerned about the health of the injected players. What has been done to them is just dreadful and they are the clear victims.

I hope the players get off. I hope anyone involved in administering the program, those who knew about it, those who sanctioned it, those that turned a blind eye never work in football again and are named and shamed. Little and Hird should never be allowed in an AFL ground again.

I can't understand those people running around wanting to see players punished for their involvement. They have had their lives put at risk by dishonest incompetent fools in whom they understandably put their trust. And yet some want to see them punished further.

It's time for some perspective.

The problem with the players getting off is that that means Essendon gets off. The only thing that can really hurt Essendon is relating to success on the field. Everything else is just money which they have a lot of. Rubbing out a dozen players hurts them seriously, fining them $10m is merely a question of mobilization of heir supporter base, and the tapping intron their considerable corporate and political networks.

[biggestred 4,820]

34 show cause notices.
they could genuinely not field a team this year at some point

Edited March 13, 2014 by biggestred

[Dees2014 2,377]

As I said in my first post yesterday I don't give a flying fox about the legalities. It may well be that under the rules/laws that exist the players are in breach. That doesn't address my concerns.

I understand you've made a living in law and the principles of law are something you will respect and live by. I'm not burdened with that legacy and I see the law as an ass. So often we get inequitable results because it's not possible for the law to anticipate all situations. This is one such case.

I start from the premise that the players didn't knowingly take banned drugs. If they did then throw the book at them. They are professional footballers and are expected and trained to be professional in the way they play. They rely on professional trainers, coaches, physiotherapists, doctors, administrators and so on and so forth to ply their trade.

They have been given a cocktail of substances which can't or won't be identified. They may or may not have had their lives put at risk. They may suffer minor, major or terminal health problems as a result. Those problems may surface in the short or long term. They will unquestionably suffer the stress of wondering what those health problems may be and they will live with that stress for a very long time (hopefully). They placed their trust in people who were responsible for them. They were duped.

You are welcome to explore the legalities of the situation and follow the intellectual demands of the law. All common sense says these kids have suffered enough.

This is the silliest post I have seen on Demonland (and that IS saying something). Everyone in our society (fortunately) is subject to the rule of law whether you like it or not - unless you are a bikie, the mafia (in all its forms) or the Carlton crew (even then it catches up to you eventually.).

Whether you give a fig about it is irrelevant -.it is there and will be adhered to. Likewise with Essendon, the AFL, Hird and his posse of cronies who surround him and feed off him. They can posture all they like, tap into "the court of public opinion", get tame journalists like Robinson and Whateley as much as they like to peddle sympathetic stories about them,, but the law will get them in the end.

What we think about that makes no difference, unless we choose to change it via the ballot box, and I don't sense a movement for that at all, however much Essendon might wish it.

[bing181 8,999]

This gets weirder. So I thought ASADAs investigations were finished? Isn't that what they said recently?

How is it the investigation is finished and now ASADA calls Dank in?

They haven't called him in to give evidence, that part is - it seems - finished. What they've done is issue a "please explain" …

…. issuing the sports scientist with a show-cause letter in relation to his controversial supplements program … It's understood the notice alleges there were 34 anti-doping breaches by Dank during his tenure at the Bombers. Dank's legal team is now expected to respond and ASADA will then determine whether an infraction notice should be issued.

Edited March 13, 2014 by bing181

[beelzebub 23,200]

34 Essendon players were reported to have been injected with that Mexican drug and 'amino acids'

Now Dank has been given show cause notice on 34 matters

Coincidence?

A lot more coincidence is yet to come

[Dees2014 2,377]

This gets weirder. So I thought ASADAs investigations were finished? Isn't that what they said recently?

How is it the investigation is finished and now ASADA calls Dank in?

Maybe they investigated everyone else, now they have their evidence they call Dank in and he (as the architect of the program) gets grilled. Any charges will be against him and players will get infraction notices.....

Who knows..

This is not weird at all. It is logical that they would gather all the evidence they can, then call the central figure (Danks) in. This allows them to refute his accusations, and to level some at him with some credibility. It also allows them to demonstrate they have covered all the ground to undermine the likes of Robinson and whateley who continuously accuse them of not doing their job by not talking to Dank. It also shows how little they (Rrobinson & Whateley) understand how investigations work.

[Crompton's the man 659]

Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.

Winston Churchill said that and he was pretty smart when he wasn't drunk.

Now is the time ..... for all with non-drug-addled brains to stand in line and fess up

(Just kidding ...... just living in an alternative universe )

[Whispering_Jack 29,240]

Here's my take and it's just a hunch and nothing more ...

The show cause notice has been issued first to minimise the potential fallout from the entire saga and to mitigate penalties against players. The mitigation of penalties is only available in limited circumstances and one of these is where the evidence given by players assists in successfully sanctioning others. If Dank (and possibly some others who set up the programme) goes down with a four year ban for his part in the Essendon/Cronulla doping scandals, then it will be open for those whose evidence assisted in achieving the sanction to claim this as a mitigating factor.

If that happens, it could allow the players involved to get their sanctions reduced from 2 years to 6 months (it might even be argued that, in a seasonal team sport, the 6 month penalty should read ½ a season, therefore say, 11 matches). If it works out that way, the players involved would have to grab it, particularly if a court settlement with Dank somehow lets out those players who took AOD9604 leaving a smaller number to take the rap for TB4.

Such an outcome could only come about by the parties reverse engineering the result - not dissimilar to the Melbourne "tanking" result involving a negotiated consensus between all of the parties involved and, let's face it, all of them including the AFL, Essendon, the players and Dank himself (probably ASADA too) have an interest in damage control. And if ASADA's involved and the arrangement is approved by Judge Downes who was appointed to sort this all out, WADA might accept a result if it sees the main perpetrator and players from the two codes (note the reports about 4 Cronulla players about to get infraction notices) being penalised.

What's in it for Dank? The heavy cost of litigation including a possible Federal Court appeal could see him end up one day in the bankruptcy court. I think he might be a lot better off if most of that money ended up in his pocket rather than in those of his lawyers and it might give him the opportunity to slink off into the night never to be seen or heard of again, an act which would do the football world and himself a big favour.

As I said, only a guess and not the outcome that does much good for the health of the players or that you would want in a perfect world (if such a world existed you wouldn't have drug cheats in the first place) but it could be good news for most of the players involved.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

The problem with the players getting off is that that means Essendon gets off. The only thing that can really hurt Essendon is relating to success on the field. Everything else is just money which they have a lot of. Rubbing out a dozen players hurts them seriously, fining them $10m is merely a question of mobilization of heir supporter base, and the tapping intron their considerable corporate and political networks.

Thats not correct. Firstly the other poster has said that Little, Hird and others involved should never be be allowed in a sporting body. If there was a way to ban the real perpetrators (the officials).

And its not just about punishing the Club. Its identifying those that were responsible for the programs and banning them from the sport.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

This is the silliest post I have seen on Demonland (and that IS saying something). Everyone in our society (fortunately) is subject to the rule of law whether you like it or not - unless you are a bikie, the mafia (in all its forms) or the Carlton crew (even then it catches up to you eventually.).

Whether you give a fig about it is irrelevant -.it is there and will be adhered to. Likewise with Essendon, the AFL, Hird and his posse of cronies who surround him and feed off him. They can posture all they like, tap into "the court of public opinion", get tame journalists like Robinson and Whateley as much as they like to peddle sympathetic stories about them,, but the law will get them in the end.

What we think about that makes no difference, unless we choose to change it via the ballot box, and I don't sense a movement for that at all, however much Essendon might wish it.

What irony! Especially from someone who naively stated that ASADA and WADA were free of political interference while the ACCC (your words and it should have been the ACC) and Workcover were not. Brilliant stuff.

You have tried to play yourself as some sought of oracle with inside information and insight and come out as blowhard without a clue.

So how under the rule of law will Hird and his cronies ever be brought to account in this saga? So far they still have their positions, their fat paychecks and their innonence.

If that the case then rule of law has failed and its an ass as the other poster said.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

This is not weird at all. It is logical that they would gather all the evidence they can, then call the central figure (Danks) in. This allows them to refute his accusations, and to level some at him with some credibility. It also allows them to demonstrate they have covered all the ground to undermine the likes of Robinson and whateley who continuously accuse them of not doing their job by not talking to Dank. It also shows how little they (Rrobinson & Whateley) understand how investigations work.

Good grief. You clearly know less than Robbo and Whateley

ASADA outgoing CEO has said the investigative period has been completed. This isnt an interview or an investigation, its a show cause notice. He has an opportunity to respond (if he chooses) to the statements made in the notice. It wont stop him in due course at making allegations in the future and I cant see ASADA addressing Danks allegations in the public forum.

If ASADA are unable or fail to make a case against either Dank or the players (I hope so), they should be rightly scrutinised for not interviewing Dank in 2013.

[Bedraggled Dee 336]

The Show cause letter received by Dank is just part of the required Investigative process under the legislation. Once ASADA have finalised the investigation (this is now obviously done they are required to put the allegations to the accused person prior to it beng considered by the authority (Show cause letter). Dank now a couple of weeks to respond and show cause why this should not considered by the authority.

This is not about ASADA trying the gather evidence that is all done. The reason Dank was not interviewed was because its voluntary and he refused requests. The coersive powers were enacted after the dates of the activity being investiated and cannot be applied retrospectively.

My take is that other charges for Essendon players and officials are being sat on until they see what Dank presents in response to his show cause. It would insane for him to be sitting on evidence that proves his innocence and that of Essendon and not provide it.

In my experience people are generally keen to talk when they are falsely accused. The only caviete I would put on that in this case is it could be that as Dank has stated he has no confidence in ASADA or the AFL to do the right thing. I think this is just a furphy. There is no way given the coverage of this and the media connections to this that every i would not be dotted and t's crossed. The QC was appointed to ASADA to review the ASADA legal departments opinions to give another layer of confidence in the outcomes of the investgation.

If I was a Essendon or some flying to Paris on an all expenses paid holiday coutesy of Essendon I would be very very very worries right now.

[Sir Why You Little 36,668]

That is pretty much my take on this BD. Dank has a chance to speak now or else the legal system will roll on regardless.

This was always going to happen.

It was actually funny listening to Rohan Conolly on radio last night trying to discredit ASADA for taking so long.

34 violations. That is a lot of investigating.

Sleep well Essendon. Not long now.

[rjay 24,615]

This is not about ASADA trying the gather evidence that is all done. The reason Dank was not interviewed was because its voluntary and he refused requests. The coersive powers were enacted after the dates of the activity being investiated and cannot be applied retrospectively.

Thanks for explaining that, if what you're saying is correct then it makes a bit more sense that they haven't interviewed him.

[old dee 23,503]

The Hun today they are saying Dank has said he will not respond to them and has instructed his legal team to take court action to stop them interviewing him.

Hmm I think this has still a long way to go.

I still think most of the players will have retired before there is a result.

[Redleg 40,219]

BB has said he knows one of the Bombers player's family and has heard of the distress this saga has caused them all. I was thinking of that and I just can't help but feel utter disgust for the behaviour of the club Doctor during and after this saga.

Additionally the fact that he is back there, is a disgusting reflection on this club's administration.

Imagine being a player involved and having as your club Doctor, a bloke, who let you be injected regularly in the stomach, with substances that may be harmful and illegal. You would feel like dropping him.

[Ted Lasso 18,786]

I'm not certain of this so please correct me if i'm wrong but does a certain amount of infraction notices within one team result in a years de-registration, i believe someone told me at one point if there was 10 or more the club would be de-registered for 12 months

[Bedraggled Dee 336]

The Hun today they are saying Dank has said he will not respond to them and has instructed his legal team to take court action to stop them interviewing him.

Hmm I think this has still a long way to go.

I still think most of the players will have retired before there is a result.

He dosnt need court action he just doesnt respond to the allegations.

The next step will be for the independent Anti Doping Rule Violation Panel (not ASADA but appointed by th Minister for Sport) to consider the evidence and any responses and determine if the person has possibly committed an ADRV, Dank can then appeal the ADRVP decision to the AAT if he chooses. I doubt he will get much joy at the AAT if he has refused all opportunities to put his side of the matter. I suspect any legal action by Dank would be to attack the process through the courts and have an injunction issued preventing the ADRVP from considering the matter until his issues with the legality of the process are heard in court.

Once the ADRVP has made a decision an infraction may be issued and in the case of the AFL the matter heard in accordance with the AFL's antidoping rules to determine the guilt and and any penalties that may apply.

I dont have a legal background and may be wrong but in my head it goes like this:

ASADA investigate and present the evidence, the ADRVP establish if there is a case to answer and the AFL issue the infraction notice and decide innocence or guilt and penalties. WADA can come over the top if the are not satisfied that the punishment is sufficient. In this case the QC has been appointed to do a QA role on the evidence between ASADA and the ADRVP.

I think its very similar to criminal matters where the Police investigate and present the evidence, DPP or police prosecutors review, a committal hearing determines if there is a case to answer and the trial dtermines guilt and applies the penalty.

[Whispering_Jack 29,240]

BB has said he knows one of the Bombers player's family and has heard of the distress this saga has caused them all. I was thinking of that and I just can't help but feel utter disgust for the behaviour of the club Doctor during and after this saga.

This also shows you how insidious the spin is that's coming from the Bombers who until recently were claiming the players weren't affected at all by the media hype and the controversy in general. Suddenly, there's been a 180 degree turn and they're telling us the players are mental wrecks because of the delays caused in finalising the ASADA report.

Now they're complaining that the show cause was issued on the eve of the season.

Perhaps they should have waited another month or so?