Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[jnrmac 20,107]

Jnrmac. I dont think Little and EFC care a stuff about what happens to Hird now or his standing in procedures. I think they do care now about the dwindling war chest and Jacques eyes on it.

He is scum isnt he

INdeed he is...

[Macca 17,009]

I have no doubt that they deliberately muddied or destroyed the records for individual players as part of a strategy to avoid penalties.

When theystarted out Hird should have checked with his lawyer wife who would have told him that under the ASADA Act the burden of proof shifts to the accused.

Whilst you may be correct, 'hoopla', wasn't it Dank that said that he kept records so, as an extension of that, might he still have them? The records may have also been put "aside" (conveniently) Who knows?

The other thing you won't hear the media talk about (or indeed the general footy public) are the benefits that the players might have received from "possibly" taking PED's. Again, if it were say, a professional cyclist, we would almost automatically assume that they're performing better because of the PED's.

You rarely if ever hear people or anyone in the media say that Essendon are playing finals because they took PED's. That probably would have happened if they'd snagged a flag but in my eyes, improvement can come from taking PED's without winning - per se.

An example of that is the 'Tour de France' of say, 10 years ago ... if an abundance of cyclists were on the gear, it stands to reason that a number of those cyclists gained benefit but didn't even come close to getting a podium finish in any of the stages. They still took PED's though. I've got an acquaintance who used to ride in the smaller events in Europe and he reckons that at one stage 90% of the cyclists were on the gear.

[daisycutter 29,622]

You can only write about what you know.

By the way ,I loved your last film with John Tutturo.

"Fading Gigolo"

thanks biffo, that means something coming from the maestro

btw i enjoyed immensely all your appearances on play school

[Biffen 12,944]

thanks biffo, that means something coming from the maestro

btw i enjoyed immensely all your appearances on play school

You are obviously a fan of my books.

"101 uses for sage"

and

"Marjoram:the forgotten herb"

There are still loads of copies left,surprising as that sounds.

[hoopla 418]

Haven't read the most recent pages so apols if repeating stuff but I think its amazing how Hird and the club have painted themselves into a corner yet again. They can only be delusional.

They can't sack Hird because if they do Hird will have no standing in the court case where he says he is trying to protect the players (as if!). The club is trying to have it both ways as usual. Fight every absurd possibility while at the same time saying the players are innocent, we are doing everything for them.

Once Hird is not coach he is stuffed from an appeal perspective.

The main reason they can't sack Hird for appealing the dismissal of their case - is that he will make sure they pay him out in full!!

Whilst you may be correct, 'hoopla', wasn't it Dank that said that he kept records so, as an extension of that, might he still have them? The records may have also been put "aside" (conveniently) Who knows?

The other thing you won't hear the media talk about (or indeed the general footy public) are the benefits that the players might have received from "possibly" taking PED's. Again, if it were say, a professional cyclist, we would almost automatically assume that they're performing better because of the PED's.

You rarely if ever hear people or anyone in the media say that Essendon are playing finals because they took PED's. That probably would have happened if they'd snagged a flag but in my eyes, improvement can come from taking PED's without winning - per se.

An example of that is the 'Tour de France' of say, 10 years ago ... if an abundance of cyclists were on the gear, it stands to reason that a number of those cyclists gained benefit but didn't even come close to getting a podium finish in any of the stages. They still took PED's though. I've got an acquaintance who used to ride in the smaller events in Europe and he reckons that at one stage 90% of the cyclists were on the gear.

Nobody seems to remember that before an abnormal number of soft tissue injuries swept through the club, Essendon played surprisingly brilliant footy in 2013. Something did enhance their performance in early 2013 ............... it was supposed to be the Weapon's brutal pre-season training regime as I recall

[daisycutter 29,622]

You are obviously a fan of my books.

"101 uses for sage"

and

"Marjoram:the forgotten herb"

There are still loads of copies left,surprising as that sounds.

yes i yam, you should introduce bbo to the delights of herbs, he still thinks they are a type of volkswagen

[Macca 17,009]

Nobody seems to remember that before an abnormal number of soft tissue injuries swept through the club, Essendon played surprisingly brilliant footy in 2013. Something did enhance their performance in early 2013 ............... it was supposed to be the Weapon's brutal pre-season training regime as I recall

Yep, and let's not forget that they did indeed qualify for the finals in 2013 before being disqualified from participating.

In my opinion, the benefits of the PED's that they "probably" took has been glossed over because of the drama surrounding the whole saga. Again, many associate taking PED's with winning but more so with winning overall.

If I were to say that Essendon won an extra 5 or 6 games in 2013 and an extra 4 or 5 wins in 2014 because of PED's, many here would be asking me for proof. Of course, I wouldn't be able to offer definitive proof but I may still be on the money.

[biggestred 5,108]

it was 2012 when they were injecting everyone with everything - and then had all those soft tissue injuries.

they "self reported" at the start of 2013 - nearly 2 years ago.

Yes, that long ago.

Edited October 5, 2014 by biggestred

[Macca 17,009]

it was 2012 when they were injecting everyone with everything - and then had all those soft tissue injuries.

they "self reported" at the start of 2013 - nearly 2 years ago.

Yes, that long ago.

So, in effect, they may have been receiving the benefits of taking PED's for at least 3 seasons (if we count this season as well)

By the way, with some PED's, the benefits can be long term - especially with regards to muscle building and core strength. Weren't they on the "good stuff?" Apparently they were at least asking for the good stuff.

I've also heard that a prominent "journo" wanted to write an exposé about a prominent retired player but the story was pulled for various reasons. The exposé was going to highlight how he was heavily into PED's in his playing days.

There's a lot we don't know or will ever know.

[biggestred 5,108]

So, in effect, they may have been receiving the benefits of taking PED's for at least 3 seasons (if we count this season as well)

By the way, with some PED's, the benefits can be long term - especially with regards to muscle building and core strength. Weren't they on the "good stuff?" Apparently they were at least asking for the good stuff.

I've also heard that a prominent "journo" wanted to write an exposé about a prominent retired player but the story was pulled for various reasons. The exposé was going to highlight how he was heavily into PED's in his playing days.

There's a lot we don't know or will ever know.

i think the thing was that they effectively squeezed 2 or 3 pre-seasons of work into 1 pre-season, thus fast forwarding their development.

[Crompton's the man 659]

i think the thing was that they effectively squeezed 2 or 3 pre-seasons of work into 1 pre-season, thus fast forwarding their development.

This is a strictly no go zone

There is the integrity of the AFL- betting system to consider

I strongly advise you to drop this line of discussion

[Macca 17,009]

i think the thing was that they effectively squeezed 2 or 3 pre-seasons of work into 1 pre-season, thus fast forwarding their development.

Which is an enormous advantage if true.

Makes you wonder how in that 3 year period we beat them twice and on the other occasion, they completely obliterated us. Of course, there's a lot that doesn't make a lot of sense but if we had more information, it might make sense.

[monoccular 17,432]

Neither Patrick Smith nor Caroline Wilson were ever sticking their necks out. Both were just reporting on events in a normal fashion. If it had have been Cronulla only, most of the Melbourne media and the footy public would have had a field day.

Most others in the media and indeed most in the general footy public had their collective heads in a bucket of sand because ... at the guts of the whole thing was that the game had to be protected so therefore Essendon had to be protected. Now that we're slowly getting overwhelming evidence that implicates Essendon, a large majority of people are simply taking up the view that they could have taken up from the start (or should have)

I still come across a lot of people who don't want the players to cop bans because they feel it will hurt the game (excluding most Bomber fans who are hopelessly compromised)

Of course if it were Chinese swimmers, professional cyclists, American track & field sprinters, Bulgarian weightlifters or Russian middle distance runners we were talking about ... different story. The finger gets pointed almost automatically when it's not close to home.

It would hurt the game a hell of a lot more if a club can get away with systematic illegal drug use - it would become as compromised as cycling and Eastern European (and who knows who else) weightlifting etc etc

I have some sympathy for the younger players ... especially the 1st and 2nd year draftees at the time. Of course, those young players will be in their early 20's now but I'm not sure that any of the players age's will be taken into account though if and when the penalties are handed down. The older players had to know better and they'll have to live with the choices that they made. I've long held the belief that nearly all of them are at fault in some capacity - you're allowed to say no.

I agree with you re Worksafe but again, they may be ready to strike later on - at least you'd hope they would.

It still astounds me about the amount of injections that were to be implemented with the program that they had cooked up. Not only did they overstep the mark, they went right past the mark to extreme levels.

There was talk that the entire program was to involve anywhere from 15,000 to 40,000 injections although that figure may have been exaggerated

Essendon players were last year urged to have one injection a week

Just a question - does anyone know who at Worksafe makes these calls or pulls the strings, and are these people known to have any allegiances with or love for EFC or any other AFL team?

[monoccular 17,432]

This is a strictly no go zone

There is the integrity of the AFL- betting system to consider

I strongly advise you to drop this line of discussion

Surely this is no more of a no go zone than the whole sordid drug saga - IF it compromised one game, one season or multiple seasons it would be equally relevant.

Are you suggesting that this whole thread is "no go"?

[biggestred 5,108]

This is a strictly no go zone

There is the integrity of the AFL- betting system to consider

I strongly advise you to drop this line of discussion

but thats the entire point - essendon cheated in order to gain an advantage and in doing so put the health of their own players at risk.

[John Crow Batty 8,871]

i think the thing was that they effectively squeezed 2 or 3 pre-seasons of work into 1 pre-season, thus fast forwarding their development.

But it kind of backfired with all the soft tissue injuries. Pushing the boundaries of how far and fast the human body can be artificially optimised for performance. A bit like over fertilising garden tomatoes. They grow fast, tall and lush but makes them structually weak and collapse under their own weight or are blown over and snapped by the wind all too easy.

Edited October 5, 2014 by america de cali

[Crompton's the man 659]

Surely this is no more of a no go zone than the whole sordid drug saga - IF it compromised one game, one season or multiple seasons it would be equally relevant.

Are you suggesting that this whole thread is "no go"?

Well what I really meant is that just like that zone in the Lord of the Rings where it was not possible to consider what lay north of a certain point, absolutely no one has the wit or the will to consider the implications of cheating and its ramifications.

It may have altered games and may have financial ramifications and people have been dudded.

Just don't think any of the various vested interests are going to walk down that path is all

[beelzebub 23,380]

This is a strictly no go zone

There is the integrity of the AFL- betting system to consider

I strongly advise you to drop this line of discussion

because ????

Edit. You posted answer at same time lol

You actually touch upon a cornerstone to much of all this, a sort os slidinv doors scenario, what would the outcomes have been had not Essendon cheated ?

Some very big players in all this. Murky murky murky !

Edited October 5, 2014 by beelzebub

[biggestred 5,108]

Well what I really meant is that just like that zone in the Lord of the Rings where it was not possible to consider what lay north of a certain point, absolutely no one has the wit or the will to consider the implications of cheating and its ramifications.

It may have altered games and may have financial ramifications and people have been dudded.

Just don't think any of the various vested interests are going to walk down that path is all

but thats the exact point of giving the players bans

[DeeGee 177]

it was 2012 when they were injecting everyone with everything - and then had all those soft tissue injuries.

they "self reported" at the start of 2013 - nearly 2 years ago.

Yes, that long ago.

I've wondered why no-one in the media has picked up on this. Essendon were a middle-of-the-road team in 2011, then they were on top of the ladder by mid 2012 after winning I think 10 (or 11?) games in the row (good ol' Dees breaked the winning streak!). Following that, they had a string of soft tissue injuries and it all fell apart.

This massive rise up the ladder coincided with the supplement program. I know psychology has a lot to do with sport, but surely the supplements helped that rise too? This is what the whole saga should be about - it's called "cheating" in my book.

[biggestred 5,108]

I've wondered why no-one in the media has picked up on this. Essendon were a middle-of-the-road team in 2011, then they were on top of the ladder by mid 2012 after winning I think 10 (or 11?) games in the row (good ol' Dees breaked the winning streak!). Following that, they had a string of soft tissue injuries and it all fell apart.

This massive rise up the ladder coincided with the supplement program. I know psychology has a lot to do with sport, but surely the supplements helped that rise too? This is what the whole saga should be about - it's called "cheating" in my book.

absolutely ridiculous night at the footy. in my top 3 all time wins

[Melbman2 226]

The main reason they can't sack Hird for appealing the dismissal of their case - is that he will make sure they pay him out in full!!

Nobody seems to remember that before an abnormal number of soft tissue injuries swept through the club, Essendon played surprisingly brilliant footy in 2013. Something did enhance their performance in early 2013 ............... it was supposed to be the Weapon's brutal pre-season training regime as I recall

it was 2012 when they were injecting everyone with everything - and then had all those soft tissue injuries.

they "self reported" at the start of 2013 - nearly 2 years ago.

Yes, that long ago.

I've wondered why no-one in the media has picked up on this. Essendon were a middle-of-the-road team in 2011, then they were on top of the ladder by mid 2012 after winning I think 10 (or 11?) games in the row (good ol' Dees breaked the winning streak!). Following that, they had a string of soft tissue injuries and it all fell apart.

This massive rise up the ladder coincided with the supplement program. I know psychology has a lot to do with sport, but surely the supplements helped that rise too? This is what the whole saga should be about - it's called "cheating" in my book.

It was during this time in 2012 in an online chat with Cameron Schwab where I innocently asked him about some aspect of the Essendon midfield dominance and he said "yes it is very interesting isn't it".

I had no idea what he meant at the time as it seemed an odd answer and I now wonder if it was a cryptic nod at the Essendon "program" of which we didn't know anything about yet.

[Lucifers Hero 39,967]

The Age is reporting that Hird could launch 'contempt of court' charges against EFC if they sack him for appealing. It is conjecture by the journalist but this is rapidly becoming farcical!! There is no way Hird can go back...he is just stalling. I wonder what rabbit he will pull out of the hat, next! He is cunning as...

He just doesn't realise the more he tries to protect his precious reputation the more he is trashing it!! Whats more he has now burnt best mates, the EFC, most EFC supporters, the AFL and his goodwill with the AFL public went long ago. His fan club is now probably his family and his highly paid silks!

The guy is a nutcase!

[DemonOX 8,791]

I can't believe that this shite is still going.

My god when will it end???

Enough already.

[beelzebub 23,380]

The Age is reporting that Hird could launch 'contempt of court' charges against EFC if they sack him for appealing. It is conjecture by the journalist but this is rapidly becoming farcical!! There is no way Hird can go back...he is just stalling. I wonder what rabbit he will pull out of the hat, next! He is cunning as...

He just doesn't realise the more he tries to protect his precious reputation the more he is trashing it!! Whats more he has now burnt best mates, the EFC, most EFC supporters, the AFL and his goodwill with the AFL public went long ago. His fan club is now probably his family and his highly paid silks!

The guy is a nutcase!

Hird could launch contempt of court proceedings against Bombers

How long before Essendon just goes bang....in a puff of smoke.

Its really ( for mine ) just Hird wanting his last 2 mill ion 10 million , whatever out of that club he 'loves'.

Has there ever been a more contemptuous, hypocritical, self righteous, narcissistic , money grubbing piece of shlt to ever wear a foot ball jumper ??? Cant think of any to hand.

You are a piece of work James Hird, even under-rock dwelling snakes dont want a bar of you !! I'd prescribe that you rot in Hell but as that's OUR domain you can just exist as white noise buzzing in dark damp empty cave as even purgatory requires one to have had a soul !!