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The Smear and Innuendo of Faceless Men


Dr. Gonzo

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I have created this thread as I was interested in the discussion in the "New CEO" thread which was closed as it strayed off topic. Well here is the topic for the discussion to continue.

I must say some of the things being hinted at in that thread (and its always only "hinted at") made me feel very poorly about the club. I think the time is now to clear the air and stop with all the innuendo about faceless men who some say were involved in fracturing the club in one way or another. It's time for the club to wipe the slate clean and there is NO WAY this can happen and the can club can ever move forward let alone BE SUCCESSFUL if the club is allowed to be dominated by backstage politics. Reading that thread felt more like an ALP Caucus meeting than discussion about a FOOTBALL club. It seems the same types who Smith had issues with and ended up sacking him still permeate the club.

So here it is - this thread is to get it all out in the open so that us "common folk" who are the backbone of the club and pay hundreds or thousands of dollars each and every year to support the team and club are given the opportunity to assess all the facts and make our own minds up about how this club should best be managed/run.

Specific posters seem to be recurring themes around these discussions and they know who they are so here it is, this is your chance to clear the air.

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Yeah, it appears to be all about ego. I don't think this thread will reveal anything though, DG. However, I will watch it with interest.

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Is it actually a big issue?

I thought our board was pretty good and all clubs have back stage mutterings but I think ours are better than north or the dogs.

I think it's the link between the board, CEO, footy department that needs fixing.

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One of those issues that keeps popping up in International Development studies.

Many people would rather be the king of the slum than just another person in a functioning town.

There's also a common kind of dysfunctional loyalty - "I've been a supporter for 50 years, so the club owes me something". Often voices in some variation of the bizarre notoin that they are now entitled to a premiership.

Sometimes I got the feeling Moloney had a bit of that - "I bleed red and blue so I am kingsh!t around here and nobody can tell me what to do".

Anyway, personally I detest people who run little campaign out of the side of their mouth, and it has been obvious for a long time that there are plenty of 'people of informal influence' at the Melbourne football club who love that kind of thing.

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Goddamnit, stuie.

I post about this fractured club from time to time and I know that Jimmy brought a great number of people back who hadn't been at the club. There are still those who refuse to talk to, or acknowledge, those involved in the merger.

That was 17 years ago.

We also don't have the luxury to scorch the earth here with our disenchanted sons and daughters.

We have to talk to them, convince them to help the club, and reform them to stay in the tent facing out - if you know what I mean.

Apart from that - try to run the club well and start winning.

And a note to those doing the running, if not the winning - take criticism well.

It's for the good of the club.

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Despite a rather pithy effort by some on the New CEO thread to divert attention away from the real issue, Dr. Gonzo, the "faceless men" alluded to there are not current board members but rather, people previously involved with the club who couldn't leave well enough alone and have gone beyond being critics to something far less savoury. They caused damage to the club.

On the subject of "smears" the worst of these is the one put forward against me when it was falsely alleged that I hadn't fulfilled a promise to reveal information about these so called "faceless men". On the contrary, back in February on the Caroline Wilson thread I set out a summary of what I had been told. In it I also covered some aspects of the discussion which have been completely (deliberately?) misconstrued by my critics. This has been confirmed to me by a number of others and in particular, by another poster in the same thread.

This is what Hoopla wrote on 28 February @ 9.38

WJ's information is consistent with my own. Certainly one disgruntled ex employee - whose extreme bitterness was known at the time of his termination - was instrumental in escalating the investigation. We can condemn that person's vitreole - but it is not uncommon for ex-employees to carry deep-seated grudges and it is not something human resource management expertise can necessarily prevent.

The club knows who that person is - and it is reasonable to conclude that he ( and his fellow stirrers) will never get close enough to the club again to do any more damage.Wilson may not be a scrupulous journalist - but I think she's shrewd enough to know when she has played all her cards - and when it is time to move to the next game.

My critics who are too lazy to check their facts can go to that thread. Those who have demanded that I provide names and more detail would be aware that I specified I had "to respect some confidentiality" over the information provided to me. The weasels among us might suggest I should breach confidences but I won't.

My post of 27 February 10:35 am gives a fair bit to go on and for further information, I suggest that you ask Bagdad Bob, who seems to be the Caroline Wilson guru around here, to fill you in on what he knows about what Caroline Wilson and the AFL were told, by who and when.

Those who want to delve further into the subject might want to ponder about how the Mifsud/Davey story ever saw the light of day. How did Mifsud and Caroline Wilson come by the fabricated story about Mark Neeld's relationship with our indigenous players? Did that lie materialise out of thin air or was there someone with a grudge against the club who wanted badly to hurt the club and was that person assisted by others? I know the exercise of rereading the media articles at the time can be long winded but it's worth it to see what you can uncover about what I now view as a pretty sordid attempt to undermine a young coach. Whatever you might think about his performance in the role, he didn't deserve to be the butt of that filthy campaign.

And just maybe, there could be a connection between all of that and the vault story. Go figure?

During the course of that discussion on the Caroline Wilson thread, I said I would "tell the full story in my own good time". That means it's up to me (and one other) to determine when that information is divulged and nobody else.

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For me, there are two parallel narratives:

1. Disgruntled former employees telling 'stories' to hurt the club. Like 'Neeld is racist' and 'CC threatened us with Zulus.'

2. A club with many people estranged from it that used to heavily involved in it.

IMO, the former is more of an annoyance, but the latter is holding us back at a time when we need everyone on board. We don't have Gardner-ites at the club, we don't have those involved with Gutnick or Szondy. These are all Demons who tried to do what is in the best interests of the club. Everyone needs to realise that, swallow some pride and come back to a welcoming club.

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So WJ it is nothing but hearsay at the moment, yet again, no wonder the Club is supposedly destabilised, posters on here can never leave it alone

Invariably, that and opinion are what it all boils down to in many cases. There's no such thing as absolute truth and we're all entitled to hold opinions and views but just don't do harm (Galen).

Edited by The Great Pretender
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Despite a rather pithy effort by some on the New CEO thread to divert attention away from the real issue, Dr. Gonzo, the "faceless men" alluded to there are not current board members but rather, people previously involved with the club who couldn't leave well enough alone and have gone beyond being critics to something far less savoury. They caused damage to the club.

On the subject of "smears" the worst of these is the one put forward against me when it was falsely alleged that I hadn't fulfilled a promise to reveal information about these so called "faceless men". On the contrary, back in February on the Caroline Wilson thread I set out a summary of what I had been told. In it I also covered some aspects of the discussion which have been completely (deliberately?) misconstrued by my critics. This has been confirmed to me by a number of others and in particular, by another poster in the same thread.

This is what Hoopla wrote on 28 February @ 9.38

My critics who are too lazy to check their facts can go to that thread. Those who have demanded that I provide names and more detail would be aware that I specified I had "to respect some confidentiality" over the information provided to me. The weasels among us might suggest I should breach confidences but I won't.

My post of 27 February 10:35 am gives a fair bit to go on and for further information, I suggest that you ask Bagdad Bob, who seems to be the Caroline Wilson guru around here, to fill you in on what he knows about what Caroline Wilson and the AFL were told, by who and when.

Those who want to delve further into the subject might want to ponder about how the Mifsud/Davey story ever saw the light of day. How did Mifsud and Caroline Wilson come by the fabricated story about Mark Neeld's relationship with our indigenous players? Did that lie materialise out of thin air or was there someone with a grudge against the club who wanted badly to hurt the club and was that person assisted by others? I know the exercise of rereading the media articles at the time can be long winded but it's worth it to see what you can uncover about what I now view as a pretty sordid attempt to undermine a young coach. Whatever you might think about his performance in the role, he didn't deserve to be the butt of that filthy campaign.

And just maybe, there could be a connection between all of that and the vault story. Go figure?

During the course of that discussion on the Caroline Wilson thread, I said I would "tell the full story in my own good time". That means it's up to me (and one other) to determine when that information is divulged and nobody else.

...and that's the truth of it. It was a pretty filthy effort from those involved.

So long as they are on the outer and have no influence that's all that matters now, names can come whenever, if ever. If they start to peddle rubbish and create trouble again then the names must come out.

So WJ it is nothing but hearsay at the moment, yet again, no wonder the Club is supposedly destabilised, posters on here can never leave it alone

Not sure what you are getting at here???

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On the subject of "smears" the worst of these is the one put forward against me when it was falsely alleged that I hadn't fulfilled a promise to reveal information about these so called "faceless men". On the contrary, back in February on the Caroline Wilson thread I set out a summary of what I had been told. In it I also covered some aspects of the discussion which have been completely (deliberately?) misconstrued by my critics. This has been confirmed to me by a number of others and in particular, by another poster in the same thread.

What has happened to you ? You would reveal what you knew. I know you then changed your mind. I know that you then said that "more was coming" and, well, that isn't looking flash either. Are we putting this in the "he may tarry" basket?

And the "positive attitude" CEO debate? What were you thinking? You cannot have it both ways - say that the club should be viewed positively - and then complain about a history of bitterness and nasty politics dating back decades. Revisionist? Really Jack? Either there is a problem that applicants should know or there isn't. So now we know there is a problem and we know that the board struggles to make good decisions frequently, then we know that there are reasons in fact that applicants should be wary of the MFC. You are asking for a CEO who is ignorant to our history (a history you complain is vital to understanding the club!) and ignores a board that has presided over a miserable period. Is ther any other description for your position other than hypocrisy? It isn't consistent. It makes no sense.

On the next level, the "worst smear" has nothing to do with you - you are an internet persona. The "worst smear" affects real people, is made about real people and influences real people. Nothing on here goes to any such lengths. Smears about Neeld are real and certainly affected him and Davey, for example. How can you possibly compare yourself to that?

As for the shadow conspiracy, well, you are big about the wrongs of whispering campaigns and are indulging in one right now. Standards you hold for others you fail to apply to yourself. There was another poster ON THIS SITE who revealed that a current board member had been talking to and either emailed or SMS'd Caro with information unintentionally. It was several months ago and I was amazed that no-one picked it up. Then Caro threatened to reveal her source inside the club on tele several weeks ago. Coincidence? This has the same level of validity that your information has and you've not bothered to run with it, and you know this information. You are putting forward one view because it suits you.

I've not doubt that ex-employees are been talking to the AFL - Connolly named some in the paper I think. But what you are alleging goes beyond grumbles coerced out of disgruntled souls as part of a heavy-handed AFL investigation. What you are talking about is a long-running, systematic vendetta. With no targets beyond chaos and no goals beyond mayhem.

Jack, this is not a batman movie. Your argument and lack of evidence/information is simply not credible. What is credible is that all our current misfortune is a result of a transaction between AD's personality, media mechanics and humans with failings like poor judgement and entitlement. You are saying that something is happening, which involves people you will not name, for ends you cannot describe with corroborating evidence you also cannot name and frankly might not have.

Get serious Jack.

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Despite a rather pithy effort by some on the New CEO thread to divert attention away from the real issue, Dr. Gonzo, the "faceless men" alluded to there are not current board members but rather, people previously involved with the club who couldn't leave well enough alone and have gone beyond being critics to something far less savoury. They caused damage to the club.

On the subject of "smears" the worst of these is the one put forward against me when it was falsely alleged that I hadn't fulfilled a promise to reveal information about these so called "faceless men". On the contrary, back in February on the Caroline Wilson thread I set out a summary of what I had been told. In it I also covered some aspects of the discussion which have been completely (deliberately?) misconstrued by my critics. This has been confirmed to me by a number of others and in particular, by another poster in the same thread.

This is what Hoopla wrote on 28 February @ 9.38

My critics who are too lazy to check their facts can go to that thread. Those who have demanded that I provide names and more detail would be aware that I specified I had "to respect some confidentiality" over the information provided to me. The weasels among us might suggest I should breach confidences but I won't.

My post of 27 February 10:35 am gives a fair bit to go on and for further information, I suggest that you ask Bagdad Bob, who seems to be the Caroline Wilson guru around here, to fill you in on what he knows about what Caroline Wilson and the AFL were told, by who and when.

Those who want to delve further into the subject might want to ponder about how the Mifsud/Davey story ever saw the light of day. How did Mifsud and Caroline Wilson come by the fabricated story about Mark Neeld's relationship with our indigenous players? Did that lie materialise out of thin air or was there someone with a grudge against the club who wanted badly to hurt the club and was that person assisted by others? I know the exercise of rereading the media articles at the time can be long winded but it's worth it to see what you can uncover about what I now view as a pretty sordid attempt to undermine a young coach. Whatever you might think about his performance in the role, he didn't deserve to be the butt of that filthy campaign.

And just maybe, there could be a connection between all of that and the vault story. Go figure?

During the course of that discussion on the Caroline Wilson thread, I said I would "tell the full story in my own good time". That means it's up to me (and one other) to determine when that information is divulged and nobody else.

WJ, on the one hand I appreciate that you don't wish to reveal the identities of people who may have told you things in confidence; however on the other I can't help but feel that as supporters who care deeply about the club and want to see it on the right track we are helpless to do so unless we are provided with all the information about specific people who only wish to be involved with the MFC to carry out personal vendettas. You allude to the Mifsud/Davey affair and I agree it stinks but I don't think reading back through old news articles is going to enlighten me as to the reason why it occurred as I may not be familiar with the personalities involved especially if they are only hinted at. How can we keep the destabilisers out of the club if we don't know who they are?

On a similar note to the Mifsud/Davey issue I've always found the Polis/EnergyWatch story to be interesting as well. Who discovered the rants on his FB page and leaked it to the media? Was it just a coincidence that it all occurred around the same time as the Mifsud/Davey situation? Were his comments known about prior to this but only made the news at an opportune time? No-one in the media ever revealed how they came to know about the comments made by Polis which had been sitting on FB for some time prior to it blowing up in the media.

I guess what it all comes down to is a sense of helplessness that all this politicking/vendettas are going on in the background of my club yet due to a lack of information about who is involved there is really no recourse for me to do anything about it as things are only whispered about and never fully disclosed and I have no idea whether what is being said about certain people (Neeld and McLardy for instance) is only half the story and/or being used to run an agenda. It's all very well to say the members should vote out the board at the AGM if they feel aggrieved with how they run the club but without the FACTS laid bare it is very difficult to make an informed decision.

I guess I just find it astounding that people who purport to love the club would rather hurt it than work together with people they may have issues with to get along for the greater good. I sincerely believe this is the biggest issue facing our club and the reason we have been a rabble for so long. We have no chance of being successful on or off-field while this type of petty bickering goes on behind the scenes (and this has turned into a more general rant and not necessarily directed at you WJ).

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What has happened to you ? You would reveal what you knew. I know you then changed your mind. I know that you then said that "more was coming" and, well, that isn't looking flash either. Are we putting this in the "he may tarry" basket?

And the "positive attitude" CEO debate? What were you thinking? You cannot have it both ways - say that the club should be viewed positively - and then complain about a history of bitterness and nasty politics dating back decades. Revisionist? Really Jack? Either there is a problem that applicants should know or there isn't. So now we know there is a problem and we know that the board struggles to make good decisions frequently, then we know that there are reasons in fact that applicants should be wary of the MFC. You are asking for a CEO who is ignorant to our history (a history you complain is vital to understanding the club!) and ignores a board that has presided over a miserable period. Is ther any other description for your position other than hypocrisy? It isn't consistent. It makes no sense.

On the next level, the "worst smear" has nothing to do with you - you are an internet persona. The "worst smear" affects real people, is made about real people and influences real people. Nothing on here goes to any such lengths. Smears about Neeld are real and certainly affected him and Davey, for example. How can you possibly compare yourself to that?

As for the shadow conspiracy, well, you are big about the wrongs of whispering campaigns and are indulging in one right now. Standards you hold for others you fail to apply to yourself. There was another poster ON THIS SITE who revealed that a current board member had been talking to and either emailed or SMS'd Caro with information unintentionally. It was several months ago and I was amazed that no-one picked it up. Then Caro threatened to reveal her source inside the club on tele several weeks ago. Coincidence? This has the same level of validity that your information has and you've not bothered to run with it, and you know this information. You are putting forward one view because it suits you.

I've not doubt that ex-employees are been talking to the AFL - Connolly named some in the paper I think. But what you are alleging goes beyond grumbles coerced out of disgruntled souls as part of a heavy-handed AFL investigation. What you are talking about is a long-running, systematic vendetta. With no targets beyond chaos and no goals beyond mayhem.

Jack, this is not a batman movie. Your argument and lack of evidence/information is simply not credible. What is credible is that all our current misfortune is a result of a transaction between AD's personality, media mechanics and humans with failings like poor judgement and entitlement. You are saying that something is happening, which involves people you will not name, for ends you cannot describe with corroborating evidence you also cannot name and frankly might not have.

Get serious Jack.

No you get serious, stop being disingenuous, stop inventing things I allegedly promised and start by reading what I wrote in the post to which you are apparently responding but doubtlessly haven't bothered reading in full.

I said I would "tell the full story in my own good time". That means it's up to me (and one other) to determine when that information is divulged and nobody else.

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The new CEO will definitely face some difficult challenges but these people don't get paid peanuts and they are definitely not monkeys like some of the doomsayers around here (and they're around every club).

I therefore agree with those who say this is a terrific club and the reward for helping improve our on field performance will be enormous for the right candidate. Sure, he [edit: or she] will have to deal with the white anters (again, they're around every club) but I don't see the fuss being made by TimD who appears to be on a points scoring exercise every time he starts pontificating about things related to the club.

A wise man once connected with our club once said, "eyes on the ball, not the man and you'll get the job done."

Edited by Pink Freud
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No you get serious, stop being disingenuous, stop inventing things I allegedly promised and start by reading what I wrote in the post to which you are apparently responding but doubtlessly haven't bothered reading in full.

I don't think he is being disingenuous, I read it in full, it is another post that promises a lot and delivers little, you have only managed to muddy the waters even more and get the conspiracy theorists a little more excited

I have spoken to most at the Club from Don McLardy downwards, asked a few questions, been given answers, am I to assume that i have been lied to on most things?

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...and that's the truth of it. It was a pretty filthy effort from those involved.

So long as they are on the outer and have no influence that's all that matters now, names can come whenever, if ever. If they start to peddle rubbish and create trouble again then the names must come out.

Not sure what you are getting at here???

You thinking what I'm thinking rjay?

facelessman_600.gif

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I find this thread ironic - egotistical people talking about egotistical people undermining the club.

There will always be people wanting to undermine the club or any other club due to the high turnover rate of both staff and executives and personal connections which they bring.

Move on, its a fact of any industry .

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Edited inappropriate language
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I don't think he is being disingenuous, I read it in full, it is another post that promises a lot and delivers little, you have only managed to muddy the waters even more and get the conspiracy theorists a little more excited

I have spoken to most at the Club from Don McLardy downwards, asked a few questions, been given answers, am I to assume that i have been lied to on most things?

I would assume. Edited by mjt
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This thread.

Cow falling over a cliff.

If you can tell the difference, you get a prize.

Started in good faith I guess, but now it's all 'MOOOOO' and 'MOOOOO' and beef accelerating towards the ground.

Agreed.

Tedious, boring and moo ...

Old agendas that don't serve any purpose.

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    When they locked up the rooms for summer at the end of last year’s football season, the rooms gathered cobwebs, the atmosphere became dense and the place developed a sleepy feel. They opened up the rooms to let Casey out to play on Sunday but the team was still hibernating and they missed the bulk of the opening quarter ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 25

  • PreGame      

    PREGAME: Rd 03 vs Port Adelaide

    The Demons head out on the road for the next 2 weeks as they travel to Adelaide to play Port on Saturday and then have a 5 Day break before facing the Crows in Gather Round. With injuries to May and Lever who comes in and who goes out? ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 28

  • Match Report      

    A FORK IN THE HAWK by George on the Outer

    For too long in the past, Demon fans became habitually sick and tired of watching the Hawks hand out thrashings to their side. But Melbourne’s empahtic 55-point win at the MCG on Saturday has truly put a fork in the Hawk and turned that history well and truly on its head ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Post Game      

    POSTGAME: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    The Demons cruised to an easy 55 point win over the Hawks at the MCG but but paid a heavy toll on the injury front with Steven May & Jake Lever possibly sidelined for a number of weeks ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Votes      

    VOTES: Rd 02 vs Hawthorn

    Last week Steven May took the lead in the Demonland Player of the Year Award from Jack Viney. Clayton Oliver & Max Gawn round out the Top 4. Your votes for the win/loss against/to the Hawks. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 ...READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Game Day      

    GAMEDAY: Round 02 vs Hawthorn

    It's Game Day and after mixed results in the first two weeks of the season the Demons have the opportunity to capitalise on their good form last week when they take on the Hawks at the MCG today ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 23

  • Training  

    Friday, 22nd March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatcher Kev Martin and I attended the Captain's Run at Gosch's Paddock on this lovely sunny morning to bring you the following observations from the training session ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 22

  • Training  

    Tuesday, 19th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin & Walking Civil War attended Tuesday morning's training session at Gosch's Paddock to bring you the following observations ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 19

  • Training  

    Saturday, 16th March 2024

    Demonland Trackwatchers Kev Martin and Dee Zephyr wandered down to Gosch's Paddock on Saturday morning to bring you their observations from the Captain's Run in the lead up to Sunday's Round One match against the Bulldogs ... READ MORE

    Demonland | March 16

  • Farewell  

    Angus Brayshaw Retires

    After 167 games including the drought breaking Premiership Angus Brayshaw has made the heart breaking decision to medically retire from football as a result of a series of serious head knocks over his nearly decade of footy. We wish Gus all the best and he'll always be a hero at Demonland ... READ MORE

    Demonland | February 22

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Koltyn Tholstrup Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club’s newest recruit Koltyn Tholstrup to have a chat about his journey from the farm to the Demons, his first few weeks of preseason training, which Dees have impressed him on the track and his aspirations of playing Round 1 ... LISTEN

    Demonland | December 14

  • Latest Podcast  

    PODCAST: Jason Taylor Interview

    I interview the Melbourne Football Club's National Recruitment Manager Jason Taylor to have a chat about our Trade and Draft period, our newest recruits, our recent recruits who have yet to debut as well as those father son prospects on the horizon ... LISTEN

    Demonland | November 27

  • Next Match 

    .

    Round 03

       vs   

    Saturday 30th March 2024
    @ 07:30pm (AO)

  • MFC Forum  

  • Match Previews & Reports  

  • Training Forum  

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  • Topics

  • Injury List  


      PLAYER INJURY LENGTH
    Jake Lever Knee Test
    Clayton Oliver Hand Test
    Oliver Sestan Concussion Test
    Steven May Ribs 1 Week
    Lachie Hunter Calf 1 Week
    Daniel Turner Hip 2-3 Weeks
    Charlie Spargo Achilles 2-4 Weeks
    Shane McAdam Hamstring 3-5 Weeks
    Jake Bowey Shoulder 7 Weeks
    Jake Melksham ACL 12-14 Weeks
    Joel Smith Suspension TBA

  • Player of the Year  


        PLAYER VOTES
    1 Christian Petracca 27
    2 Steven May 25
    3 Max Gawn 21
    4 Jack Viney 20
    5 Bayley Fritsch 19
    6 Clayton Oliver 18
    7 Christian Salem 12
    8 Blake Howes 11
    9 Jack Billings 10
    9 Alex Neal-Bullen 10

        FULL TABLE
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