What If Our Players Just Aren't Very Good

[Chook 14,456]

Daniher, Riley, Bailey, Viney, Neeld.

Five coaches. Seven years. About 20 wins between them.

What if it's not the coaches or the culture?

What if we simply have recruited bad practitioners of australian rules football?

Could it be that simple?

If it is, can it be fixed without just sitting through another six years of Draft Day Threads?

It's only natural to place blame on high-profile individuals (and there's no-one more high profile than the senior coach), but the reality probably is that we just have not picked the correct players over an extended period of time.

Again, are we willing to do it all over again in the hopes that this time we might actually get it right?

Edited April 6, 2013 by Chook

[DeeSpencer 23,092]

The first quarter we actually tried. Result was 6 goals to one. And I think we were a touch unlucky not to be closer.

But the rest of the game we didnt try completely.

Plus the coach and others should have made some improvement over summer, not made things worse.

The players are bad, but not 140 points and barely try bad. Heck it was only 50 at half time. We lost the second half by 90 points. That is beyond a joke

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Daniher, Riley, Bailey, Viney, Neeld.

Five coaches. Seven years. About 20 wins between them.

What if it's not the coaches or the culture?

What if we simply have recruited bad practitioners of australian rules football?

Could it be that simple?

If it is, can it be fixed without just sitting through another six years of Draft Day Threads?

It's only natural to place blame on high-profile individuals (and there's no-one more high profile than the senior coach), but the reality probably is that we just have not picked the correct players over an extended period of time.

Again, are we willing to do it all over again in the hopes that this time we might actually get it right?

Of course it's the players, we have very few who are of AFL standard and Neeld got rid of a couple that were and replaced them with a few that aren't.

I can't believe that Neeld is surprised by the results, that's what happens when you try to pass off F graders as B graders. We have, of course, recruited [censored] beforehand just not as [censored] as the ones he did.

We have a litany of failed draft picks behind us and very few of the ones that have failed at Melbourne have gone on to have stellar careers elsewhere. We should trade our first and second round draft picks to other clubs and take established players instead like Sydney do because we sure as hell can't use them properly.

Proviso we need a panel of experts to do the picking for us because I sure as hell wouldn't trust any of our mob to get it right.

Our recruiting has been [censored] for years and I defy anyone to show otherwise. Sad really when you stuff up the selection off the person who is supposed to select your talent.

[Striker475 696]

Not fair on Daniher tbf.

Also, some of them are good. And some of them can be good - when they want to.

It's more than just a 'not being good'.

[rjay 23,886]

Gillies, Byrnes, Rodin, Sellar, Pederson, Nicholson, Spencer, MacDonald, Fitzpatrick, Davis not up to AFL standard. Jamar passed his use by date, Silvia never been as good as people think.

A whole bunch of others hit and miss like Blease, Strauss, Jetta, Dunn, Tapscott, Bail etc.

Davey, Garland, Trengove (think he can play but where, 'old dee' think you might be right about HFF)?

A couple of kids like Kent, Tynan, Taggert, Toumpas, Barry (but doesn't like the contest) to early to tell.

Jones and Terlich have a bit of a go but probably should have been rookie picks.

Tommy Mc on the back of one reasonable season need to back it up, has a long way to go (and that's on last years form not tonights) Frawley is better than he is showing but has the weight of a poor side bearing down on him.

Grimes needs to go back and marshall the troops from half back, Clark when fit needs to move into the ruck (no point waiting for it in the forward line) unless big Max can run a game. Spencer and Jamar not up to it. Clark to me is a bit like Ottens and when fit we need him to generate play. Hogan comes in next year and we can only hope Dawes remembers how to mark a ball although I'm not banking on it. Watts can do what he was picked for and play CHF until Hogan comes through.

Viney and Jones need to contest every centre bounce, only 2 with a clue but buggered if I know who the 3rd should be. The others are too busy watching their opponents run away with the ball after they've broken the tag, they need to anticipate the ball, they can't.

Doesn't look to good, does it?

Forgot Schwab, worst CEO in AFL. Probably in the history of the game.

[illest 6]

1. Sellar needs to go back to the vfl to learn how to mark.

2. Why did David Rodan get dropped? He could play a tagging role

3. Where is James Magner?

[rjay 23,886]

1. Sellar needs to go back to the vfl to learn how to mark.

2. Why did David Rodan get dropped? He could play a tagging role

3. Where is James Magner?

Rodan is a downhill skier, he has no idea of how to tag.

Magner is a rookie and not eligible until someone goes on the long term injury list.

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

Gillies, Byrnes, Rodin, Sellar, Pederson, Nicholson, Spencer, MacDonald, Fitzpatrick, Davis not up to AFL standard. Jamar passed his use by date, Silvia never been as good as people think.

A whole bunch of others hit and miss like Blease, Strauss, Jetta, Dunn, Tapscott, Bail etc.

Davey, Garland, Trengove (think he can play but where, 'old dee' think you might be right about HFF)?

A couple of kids like Kent, Tynan, Taggert, Toumpas, Barry (but doesn't like the contest) to early to tell.

Jones and Terlich have a bit of a go but probably should have been rookie picks.

Tommy Mc on the back of one reasonable season need to back it up, has a long way to go (and that's on last years form not tonights) Frawley is better than he is showing but has the weight of a poor side bearing down on him.

Grimes needs to go back and marshall the troops from half back, Clark when fit needs to move into the ruck (no point waiting for it in the forward line) unless big Max can run a game. Spencer and Jamar not up to it. Clark to me is a bit like Ottens and when fit we need him to generate play. Hogan comes in next year and we can only hope Dawes remembers how to mark a ball although I'm not banking on it. Watts can do what he was picked for and play CHF until Hogan comes through.

Viney and Jones need to contest every centre bounce, only 2 with a clue but buggered if I know who the 3rd should be. The others are too busy watching their opponents run away with the ball after they've broken the tag, they need to anticipate the ball, they can't.

Doesn't look to good, does it?

Forgot Schwab, worst CEO in AFL. Probably in the history of the game.

think youve summed it all up pretty neatly there rjay. as dark as it all seems , theres something there if you pick through the bones. but unfortunately the club is going to need a lot of time to fix this mess and put some meat around that core group. Does it have this time? we need a new CEO and coacing group to buy us time.

[ThreeOneSix 953]

Get rid of Sylvia, Davey and Jamar.

Cut a heaps more spuds like Tapscott, Strauss and anyone who can't break into this pathetic side.

Spend up on getting a gun young kid here like Rory Sloane, Nat Fyfe, Ollie Wines.

I don't care what it costs us, do this and then recruit more Terlich type players, instead of wasting coin on Sylvia, Davey and the rest of the spuds.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,412]

I dot buy it - yes we have some duds in the side but we also have some very talented players. Up til this last week I was willing to give Neeld more of a chance but I think now he's a dead man walking. It just looks like the players have no idea what they're meant to be doing out there, not that they physically are unable to perform. That's down to Neeld not the players.

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

threeonesix, how is the club going to attract any of these players you are tlaking about? this is the most damging aspect of our performance. the plan to pull a big name free agent midfielder this year is going down the gurgler. it wil be one way traffic im afraid.

[ThreeOneSix 953]

threeonesix, how is the club going to attract any of these players you are tlaking about? this is the most damging aspect of our performance. the plan to pull a big name free agent midfielder this year is going down the gurgler. it wil be one way traffic im afraid.

If it's one way traffic, then we are in a lot of trouble.

And the way we are playing this year, we'll be lucky to win a game, so you're probably right.

But, we do need these types of players if we are to improve - but they won't come unless we do improve, which we won't with this lot.

So, in other words, we probably are stuffed.

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

sylvias gone, frawley will probaly leave as well. cant see how we'll keep hogan once his contract is up and wc or freo throw an offer at him. viney is too much of a compettitor to stick around if he thinks the club is not being operated as it should be. He will have some loyalty but he is so driven i cant see him tolerating incompetence from above. some like grimes will stick at i reckon but even jonesy will decide hes sick of other blokes holding up premiership cups.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Munga

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

i normally am against massive clean outs after a few losses as it can be a bit of a knee jerk reaction . id like to see neeld get another 6 or so weeks to see what can be turned around. but i also hope theres some phone calls being made in the background. id like the ceo and connolly to be moved on . i think schwabs performance has been overrated. he has done some good things but he has made a few blunders, connolly as well. although they didnt play this fortnight i think the games are a result of a steady accumulation of poor decisions made over 5 years.

anyway , back to the players.

i actually think our list is BETTER than it appears. a contrarian view i know . i think we have a group of 10-12 players that can have very bright careers. below that it does drop off very quickly however.

[Born to Run 204]

I think the probability of drafting ALL terrible players while the ones that we did not select which other clubs did around the picks we had is hugely unlikely. I really do believe that players drafted in the top 20 in the AFL draft are good players. It's just luck of the draw I try are taken by Sydney which will enhance there chances of becoming a good AFL player, or taken by us where you can almost be assured you will be judged as rubbish and potentially delisted prior to your first contract extension.....

We SUCK at development. Our club stinks from the top down. Massive clean out required. Massive

[robbiefrom13 877]

Our midfield is our worst area, by a mile. But Neeld came to us credentialled as the great midfield guru from Collingwood. Surely then our experience proves the saying, "the players make the coach". Without the Collingwood midfield, Neeld has been disastrously unsuccessful - unprecedentedly, I'd say - so let's accept that we have learned something here, and let him go.

Because it isn't just that the players make the coach; I say that on the other hand the coach has the capacity to destroy the players. Players who played on instinct and flair have not been valued or required at Melbourne, under Neeld. On the grounds of poor fitness levels, Neeld has imposed on Melbourne a very negative style of play, presumably to "limit the damage". Clearly it is a complete disaster. Near enough all players at Melbourne have gone into their shells under Neeld, and there is no creativity. Trengove is a clear example of someone who tried to buy in totally, and became a shadow of the player we knew him to be. And Jurrah - who threatened to become our marquee player... So, I am prepared to say that Neeld has destroyed the confidence and the potential success of our players.

He knows it too, in my opinion - hence the defiant/almost annoyed tone when he said and repeated "we believe in you". Needed to get that message across, and knew it. And then - though he couldn't really bring himself to spell this one out - "mistakes don't matter". Too late, Mark - they know you too well, as the axe-wielding third-person-speaking absentee, for them to be convinced by your desperate (televised!) attempt to cuddle-up. No dignity left for these guys..

So how to restore some? Well, they did tear Sydney to pieces a couple of years ago, and Essendon less than a year ago. Most of the same blokes. They could do some things right. That's got to be a better starting point than Neeld's negativity and down-talking, now.

One thing for sure - Paul Roos could be convincing if it was him telling them they are entitled to a lot more self-respect than they currently feel: he could speak with feeling about what he has seen in them, and their ability to take it on and tear teams apart. That's the first thing the players need to hear, and believe, when the change of coach comes.

Whoever was guilty of tanking, it wasn't the players. They really are the victims in all this ongoing MFC mess; every fiasco is further psychological undermining of the players, who only ever wanted to play footy! Will they ever get a clear run at it, in this disfunctional club?

Any hint of blaming the players for the club's current mess will resonate deafeningly, going straight back through Neeld to "the Schwab win" at Geelong, and to who knows how many disparaging remarks they have been subjected to while slowly disintegrating over the past couple of years or so. Let's see if this time we can put the players first for once, whatever their shortcomings, and make changes that prioritise supporting them in their potential and actual talent for playing footy.

Without such a change in the psychological climate of the club, the players may be beyond saving sooner than we'd like. "Sticking together"? Someone will eventually publicly break ranks under the ridiculous pressure and scrutiny they are subject to at Melbourne, and the fallout may be unstoppable.

Edited April 6, 2013 by robbiefrom13

[deeflog 679]

i understand maybe the players are not good enough but what has happened to player development at the MFC? I believe this is one of the first questions that needs answering

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Hopefully the AFL will give us a few concessions, much as they did with GC and GWS, we need a priority pick at least, and access to 2 or 3 un-contracted players.

They also need to help us offload some of the deadwood we have and help with the payout of contracts.

We need a new coach and in the interim we need to appoint a caretaker, probably Craig, who has some credibility; someone like Paul Roos would be good. We can't allow Neeld to totally destroy this club, that's if he hasn't already.

The Club should be placed under AFL administration and some of the senior executives paid out and replaced.

If the AFL give us a priority pick and say "there you are that should fix your problems" we will eventually fold. Vlad said the other day he wants Melbourne to do well and he wants a club called Melbourne to remain in the competition; he didn't say in what form but hopefully as an independent Club free of the MCC and with its own identity.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Get rid of Sylvia, Davey and Jamar.

Cut a heaps more spuds like Tapscott, Strauss and anyone who can't break into this pathetic side.

Spend up on getting a gun young kid here like Rory Sloane, Nat Fyfe, Ollie Wines.

I don't care what it costs us, do this and then recruit more Terlich type players, instead of wasting coin on Sylvia, Davey and the rest of the spuds.

We've had two massive losses over the last couple of years and it seems that in both cases the players just gave up and reverted back to basic survival, keep you head down look like you are doing something even though your not, and hopefully others will get the blame.

Players like Sylvia are useless, they don't have any urgency and will never win you a game, they just go out collect a few stats and their paycheque. I couldn't believe it when at one stage he was more intent on staging for a free than actually winning the ball, he would get more respect if he tried and failed than if he just fakes it.

Jamar has had a season and a half of good form and on the back of that at 29 they give him a three year extension, wow just wow.

We have been bent over by players for years now because they know we have no credibility and have to over pay to keep them and that is only going to get worse as any player with any talent will wan out as soon as they can.

Meanwhile we will overpay spuds and try to convince ourselves that they are quality AFL players.

Edited April 6, 2013 by RobbieF

[Buzzy 929]

Gillies, Byrnes, Rodin, Sellar, Pederson, Nicholson, Spencer, MacDonald, Fitzpatrick, Davis not up to AFL standard. Jamar passed his use by date, Silvia never been as good as people think.

A whole bunch of others hit and miss like Blease, Strauss, Jetta, Dunn, Tapscott, Bail etc.

Davey, Garland, Trengove (think he can play but where, 'old dee' think you might be right about HFF)?

A couple of kids like Kent, Tynan, Taggert, Toumpas, Barry (but doesn't like the contest) to early to tell.

Jones and Terlich have a bit of a go but probably should have been rookie picks.

Tommy Mc on the back of one reasonable season need to back it up, has a long way to go (and that's on last years form not tonights) Frawley is better than he is showing but has the weight of a poor side bearing down on him.

Grimes needs to go back and marshall the troops from half back, Clark when fit needs to move into the ruck (no point waiting for it in the forward line) unless big Max can run a game. Spencer and Jamar not up to it. Clark to me is a bit like Ottens and when fit we need him to generate play. Hogan comes in next year and we can only hope Dawes remembers how to mark a ball although I'm not banking on it. Watts can do what he was picked for and play CHF until Hogan comes through.

Viney and Jones need to contest every centre bounce, only 2 with a clue but buggered if I know who the 3rd should be. The others are too busy watching their opponents run away with the ball after they've broken the tag, they need to anticipate the ball, they can't.

Doesn't look to good, does it?

Forgot Schwab, worst CEO in AFL. Probably in the history of the game.

This is incredibly depressing. I can't remember having a worse side than this.

Donald & David Cockatoo-Collins would dominate in this side.

[Cheap Seats 3,300]

Players need to take a lot of the blame here

Can't win 1 v 1 contests, don't support each other for 4 qtrs

It can't be all put down to coaching

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,078]

I think there could be something to this. But how do you rectify it?

[Deano74 156]

Theres a old saying in football " you cant make honey out of pig sh*t"

Reality is we only have a couple playing to AFL standard at moment

N Jones, Howe, Grimes

You can forgive, Clarke, Trengrove, McDonald(no pre-season they are seriously months behind in full fitness)

& Kids ( Viney, toumpas, M Jones, Terlich)

But the rest just not good enough and thats where we need to improve. Sylvia, Watts, Garland, Davey (Tried hard in a bad side), Jamar, Byrnes, Blease, Pederson, Gilles, Rodan,Sellar, Nicholson. And you can add Dunn, Tapscott,

Edited April 7, 2013 by Deano74

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,078]

Daniher was a good coach. We've never been the same since we lost Scott Thompson.

[Nasher 33,047]

Decent players like Garland and Frawley are playing like absolute vegetables. There's no doubt there's a still a smattering of awful players in our team, but I can't believe we're 150 points bad.