Time to go Mark Neeld

[Binmans PA 25,892]

Is Roos a realistic chance do you think or pie in the sky stuff?

Your guess is as good as mine DemonOX, but whilst I'd love Roos, I can't see it happening. Williams is the more realistic candidate. Clarkson would be my number one "pie in the sky" though.

[Binmans PA 25,892]

I'm agreeing with most people in regard to Eade, he did exceptionally well at both Sydney and Bulldogs both clubs were very cashed strapped and less rescoured than us, Eade is a great motivator and a great peoples person, would be a great fit for this club. Ayres on the other would also be a great fit for us too another Allan Jeans pupil, having a good winning rate a both Geelong and Adelaide and seems to have done an exceptional at Port Melbourne. Both of these guys have been involved in a powerhouse club in the 1980s playing in grand finals and premierships!!

Not too keen on Matthews now he hasn't coached since 2008 and these days you must still be in the coaching system to have a chance, he is far better now as just a mentor!

Worsfold doesn't appeal too much, I know he got the Eagles to the 2006 flag but that still seems a very tainted premiership with some of their stars. He has also coached some ordinary eagles lineups in recent times finishing near the bottom doesn't really comes across as a great motivator either!

Harvey/Ratten, Simple NO. Just don't have enough runs on the board to qualify for our needs they just seem to be good assistants!

My whishlist:

Eade

Ayres

Williams!

Hang on, so you have Ayres on your list, but you complain of Ratten not having enough runs on the board? What exactly is it that Ayres has done that makes some people think he'll make a great coach? It's mind boggling. Simply mind boggling. You also make a valid point regarding Leigh Matthews' time out of the game. Ayres hasn't coached at the top level since 2006. Even then it was only in an assistant position too.

[Binmans PA 25,892]

Eade will get us up the ladder, that's all we need ATM?

Come on mate, culture change means ridding the place of mediocrity, complacency and excuse making.

Compare eases record against Leigh Matthews 4 premierships as coach and greatest player of all time, then ask yourself, who would give us a better chance of winning a premiership.

Do I really have to explain to you that Matthews is the best coach currently not coaching?

Sometimes I think that I am talking to kindergarten children who are only 4 years old.

Get a grip, if Leigh is interested, GET HIM!!!!!!!!

Except Matthews is finished and was in 2008. He's past it, mate. I'm not saying we shouldn't interview him if he's keen, but there'd be a number I'd be choosing ahead of him.

[DemonFrog 1,347]

There a new game plan that Whiskers (Budda, Gary Hocking) tried in the WAFL when he coach Peel Thunder and was playing against West Perth.

He had take everyone of his Players and place them in the back line, This tactic would be called the Great Flood.

Maybe MN could adapt a version for the MFC eo stop the great slaughter of 2013 in the second half of the season,

If the MFC could only lose on average by 5 goals a game would it keep MN as coach in 2014?

[Binmans PA 25,892]

I'd prefer Eade over Matthews. Lethal has been out of the game a while now, and his commentary leads me to believe there have been a few more screws loosened in that time. And there is of course THAT comment about the Clark selection. Frankly I'd be very surprised if he had any interest at all in the position.

Rocket's finger has never left the pulse, and his record, whilst without the ultimate success, speaks for itself. I think he'd be up for it and would be a great get, althogh Roos and Choco are still ahead of him on my wish list, whilst Clarkson is a pipe dream.

Pretty much exactly my thoughts, PM.

[Binmans PA 25,892]

There a new game plan that Whiskers (Budda, Gary Hocking) tried in the WAFL when he coach Peel Thunder and was playing against West Perth.

He had take everyone of his Players and place them in the back line, This tactic would be called the Great Flood.

Maybe MN could adapt a version for the MFC eo stop the great slaughter of 2013 in the second half of the season,

If the MFC could only lose on average by 5 goals a game would it keep MN as coach in 2014?

I'm pretty sure I overheard you saying this on the train the other day.

And in answer to your question, no. Nothing will save Neeld. He'll be gone before the year is out.

Edited June 15, 2013 by AdamFarr

[DemonFrog 1,347]

I'm pretty sure I overheard you saying this on the train the other day.

And in answer to your question, no. Nothing will save Neeld. He'll be gone before the year is out.

But can the MFC wait that long?

Oh you must take the train from the West each day and spend all your time travelling LOL.

Edited June 16, 2013 by TheBigFrog

[Binmans PA 25,892]

Well, I'm not saying it will necessarily be at the end of this season, just he'll be out before the 2014 season starts. Personally, I think he'll be gone as soon as the new HFO is appointed and announced.

[DemonOX 8,529]

Assuming Neeld is going to be axed before his contract finishes (and I dont think he should until he's been given the bulk of next year to see how things go after a 3rd pre season, subject to no further 148 type disasters)

Sorry RN u are in the wrong thread for the above post.

This would be an absolute disaster if it happened. The club would not survive if this dud remained in place for that long.

You say subject to no further 148 type loses, does that mean u r happy with our 80-100 point loses week in week out?

I sure as shite ain't and there is no way we can continue with Neeld (& before some of u get your panties in a twist I realise the dud one is not the only problem)

[machine11 142]

what happens if we beat the saints and then the bulldogs - will that stuff up the sack neeld plans

[machine11 142]

Ayres Eade or Williams - now there is a strong candidate list - i'd rather take a punt on Neeld.

[DemonOX 8,529]

what happens if we beat the saints and then the bulldogs - will that stuff up the sack neeld plans

Have u seen the way the dogs and saints r playing?

We will not beat them maybe for a quarter but not the game.

[DemonFrog 1,347]

what happens if we beat the saints and then the bulldogs - will that stuff up the sack neeld plans

No.

[jimbo1982 82]

Don't you think it is strange that players can have good games and bad games. Also, all teams have good games and bad games. The tactics, structures and strategies do not really change week to week , it is the emotional and mental attitude taken into those games which really defines how well a team is going to play. I think Bailey, who valued spirit, was a prime example of this. Also neeld, and his lack of eq and pure focus on strategy was his downfall.

Football's current 'fad' of sport science will quickly be replaced by 'master motivators' supported by a simple game plan.

Our club was duped by this 'sport science at all costs' bulltish.

Afl is a gladiatorial sport, no matter how good your 'game plan' is, if your not mentally and spiritually ready to go to battle, then you will not win.

For this reason, I would select a coach who is a master motivator who also is an elite strategist. Leigh Matthews is the best in the business, and he is still heavily involved in football, by being paid plenty of $$$ to be an elite football analysts. He is still heavily involved in the game, reading patterns and game plans.

His presence alone would create an automatic 'buy in' from players, supporters, board members and the media.

To dismiss Leigh because he has been simply studying the game for the last 6 years is a bit narrow minded.

If he thinks he is ready to coach, you should not be arrogant enough to over-ride him and say 'no, you can't. Our club has made that mistake too many times. We must surrender our arrogance.

Lethal must be approached!

What he said!!!

[Demon Dynasty 15,202]

Sorry RN u are in the wrong thread for the above post.

This would be an absolute disaster if it happened. The club would not survive if this dud remained in place for that long.

You say subject to no further 148 type loses, does that mean u r happy with our 80-100 point loses week in week out?

I sure as shite ain't and there is no way we can continue with Neeld (& before some of u get your panties in a twist I realise the dud one is not the only problem)

I think there's a number of factors here DemonOx.

Firstly no. I hate losing no matter what the margin. The margin this year has been too large and too often.

Neeld might be trying to improve culture, defensive aspects, muscle/grunt and work ethic across the playing group or might have focussed on this early.

Where he has failed to this point IMO is in the following....

1. Insitilling and training SKILLS SKILLS SKILLS and hence belief into the playing group generally. By this i mean he didn't focus on this enough early in his tenure. By doing so it brings more confidence amongst those who are getting it and improving on this side to take the game on and attack when they have the ball at a much quicker tempo. We lack the skills to pull off run & carry, hitting up leads on a regular basis and the confidence/effort required to lead up, run & carry when the opportunity arises (including overlap handballing/running in waves off the back line and through the middle) and to keep doing this from the get go to the final siren. By focussing on a defensive/grunt/boundary biased game style too much too early i think Neeld has unfortunately left the bulk of the playing group inept in the skills/attack ability side. Instead most players sit back, on their back heel if you like, playing from behind. Instead of attacking the loose ball with confidence, knowing they have the skills to get out of trouble/congestion and find team mates by hand and foot, they hesitate a little, sit back and instead end up chasing tail most of the time and trying to tackle/worry their opponent off the ball.

You can do this for a quarter or so but i would think this is a pretty physically and mentally taxing style of game which is bound to fail over 4 quarters againt all but the weakest of opponents who are also possibly as hesitant or physically just not up to a full 4 quarters. And no not all players have this mind set, some are taking the game and their opponents on like Terlich, Garland, Rodan and even in patches Kent, N Jones (no questionmark over his intent and intensity), M Jones and one or 2 others. But there just isn't enough of that mind set amongst enough players at present. I believe Neeld and Co. have tried to address the above with more intent since approx round 6, focussing on skill drills much more than previously, but the difficiency is very hard to correct mid season. We might start to see the effects of this over correction at times during the second half of this season following the buy. Let's hope so.

2. I fear he just isn't able to get the best mentally and spiritually out of some or possibly many of the players so far. I just don't think we are AS bad as what we've witnessed in most games this year. This is a motivational/connection/man management issue and IMHO probably just as important as the issues in the above point.

Neeld has 2 critical games coming up. He has a chance to demonstrate that he can bring out the factors i've mentioned in point 2. The players will either respond to him or they wont. The games against Stkilda and the Dogs will determine his own fate i think. Must win at least one of these and hopefully the other or get awefully close. If he does this and the side shows a similar level of output for the remainder of the year, and assuming we can't obtain a super replacement premiership coach that we couldn't overlook between now and season's end, then i say we stick with Mad Eye.

Also keep in mind, outside of Dawes when he returns, we have no fire power whatsoever up forward atm. The losses are always going to be uglier than usual when you aren't hitting the scoreboard very often, even if the team is somewhat competitive over 3 or 4 quarters.

Of course, if the start of next year is anything like this one, with a season starting blow out and further ones following, then all bets are off. And i agree. I'm not sure we can afford to do this. But unless we find a super alternative coach.....can we also afford the $600k payout for an early settlement? And yes some would say we can't afford not to....but then what IF we don't find that super replacement and we ended up with Ayres/Eade/Laidley or someone like that who doesn't have true pedigree and who might also see us on the end of more blow outs? We would then start questioning his appoitment after 6 to 8 thrashings too. If we can't find an experienced premiership alternative before year's end and provided Neeld connects in the next 2 weeks.... and we don't drop off after that and keep improving....then i say he should be given at least till then end of the year. And then 2014, subject to certain non negotiables and no go zones set by the new Board together with PJ.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Rusty Nails

[Hardnut 327]

To summarise RN:

1 You are correct on 'skills, skills, skills' - almost no club in the league emphasises this aspect of play enough.

2 You are correct that MN is not able to get the most out of players.

3 You are not correct in allowing MN any more time - MFC cannot afford the damage. I suspect the AFL already has this matter in hand.

Time to wait and see!

Edited June 16, 2013 by Hardnut

[DemonOX 8,529]

I think there's a number of factors here DemonOx.

Firstly no. I hate losing no matter what the margin. The margin this year has been too large and too often.

Neeld might be trying to improve culture, defensive aspects, muscle/grunt and work ethic across the playing group or might have focussed on this early.

Where he has failed to this point IMO is in the following....

1. Insitilling and training SKILLS SKILLS SKILLS and hence belief into the playing group generally. By this i mean he didn't focus on this enough early in his tenure. By doing so it brings more confidence amongst those who are getting it and improving on this side to take the game on and attack when they have the ball at a much quicker tempo. We lack the skills to pull off run & carry, hitting up leads on a regular basis and the confidence/effort required to lead up, run & carry when the opportunity arises (including overlap handballing/running in waves off the back line and through the middle) and to keep doing this from the get go to the final siren. By focussing on a defensive/grunt/boundary biased game style too much too early i think Neeld has unfortunately left the bulk of the playing group inept in the skills/attack ability side. Instead most players sit back, on their back heel if you like, playing from behind. Instead of attacking the loose ball with confidence, knowing they have the skills to get out of trouble/congestion and find team mates by hand and foot, they hesitate a little, sit back and instead end up chasing tail most of the time and trying to tackle/worry their opponent off the ball.

You can do this for a quarter or so but i would think this is a pretty physically and mentally taxing style of game which is bound to fail over 4 quarters againt all but the weakest of opponents who are also possibly as hesitant or physically just not up to a full 4 quarters. And no not all players have this mind set, some are taking the game and their opponents on like Terlich, Garland, Rodan and even in patches Kent, N Jones (no questionmark over his intent and intensity), M Jones and one or 2 others. But there just isn't enough of that mind set amongst enough players at present. I believe Neeld and Co. have tried to address the above with more intent since approx round 6, focussing on skill drills much more than previously, but the difficiency is very hard to correct mid season. We might start to see the effects of this over correction at times during the second half of this season following the buy. Let's hope so.

2. I fear he just isn't able to get the best mentally and spiritually out of some or possibly many of the players so far. I just don't think we are AS bad as what we've witnessed in most games this year. This is a motivational/connection/man management issue and IMHO probably just as important as the issues in the above point.

Neeld has 2 critical games coming up. He has a chance to demonstrate that he can bring out the factors i've mentioned in point 2. The players will either respond to him or they wont. The games against Stkilda and the Dogs will determine his own fate i think. Must win at least one of these and hopefully the other or get awefully close. If he does this and the side shows a similar level of output for the remainder of the year, and assuming we can't obtain a super replacement premiership coach that we couldn't overlook between now and season's end, then i say we stick with Mad Eye.

Also keep in mind, outside of Dawes when he returns, we have no fire power whatsoever up forward atm. The losses are always going to be uglier than usual when you aren't hitting the scoreboard very often, even if the team is somewhat competitive over 3 or 4 quarters.

Of course, if the start of next year is anything like this one, with a season starting blow out and further ones following, then all bets are off. And i agree. I'm not sure we can afford to do this. But unless we find a super alternative coach.....can we also afford the $600k payout for an early settlement? And yes some would say we can't afford not to....but then what IF we don't find that super replacement and we ended up with Ayres/Eade/Laidley or someone like that who doesn't have true pedigree and who might also see us on the end of more blow outs? We would then start questioning his appoitment after 6 to 8 thrashings too. If we can't find an experienced premiership alternative before year's end and provided Neeld connects in the next 2 weeks.... and we don't drop off after that and keep improving....then i say he should be given at least till then end of the year. And then 2014, subject to certain non negotiables and no go zones set by the new Board together with PJ.

Very detailed rely RN.

In regards to point 1 - it's seems to me he has killed any confidence that the players had. They seem scared to do something and think too long about it then they end up turning the ball over. We have no attacking flair it seems. The players seem confused as to what they are meant to be doing on the field. SKILLS seem worse than when he took over.

Point 2 - From what I've seen he is no motivator and the players shite themselves when they have the ball and there is no instinctive play. The two games coming up will be heavy defeats again I reckon. The saints and dogs are playing much better than us and this will show in the next couple of wks. It doesn't matter who we have in the forward line cause our midfield is shocking. While our injuries are not great we had pretty much all players available at the start of the season except MC and we were still a disgrace.

Neeld went too hard on all players to early and never gained their respect but demanded it which is not the way it should have been done. IMO he has lost the players and this will come through in the next 2 games. If by some chance we are better I still think we should move him on and install Craig as interim until a quality coach is signed. The AFL will make sure this will be the case and they will cough up the $$$$ to accommodate the change.

Finally I will be admitted to the nut house if the dud one survives cause he has taken all the joy and excitement out if watching the game. This weekend I was glad we didn't play and if I have this type of attitude how many other supporters do which is a massive worry if he stays.

Edited June 16, 2013 by DemonOX

[Hardnut 327]

Craig is not an option as interim coach - MN and NC are inextricably linked, both must go and quickly.

[Demon Dynasty 15,202]

To summarise RN:

1 You are correct on 'skills, skills, skills' - almost no club in the league emphasises this aspect of play enough.

2 You are correct that MN is not able to get the most out of players.

3 You are not correct in allowing MN any more time - MFC cannot afford the damage. I suspect the AFL already has this matter in hand.

Time to wait and see!

I think PJ has already determined he will have more time re his "Clear Air" comment a few weeks back HN. But yes, there's a bigger picture and bigger fish at play here that might mean he doesn't have more than a few weeks. It will need to be a pretty significant turnaround against the Doggies and the Saints (and beyond) if Mad Eye (and the playing group if he has the bulk of them on board) are going to save his bacon.

Very detailed rely RN.

In regards to point 1 - it's seems to me he has killed any confidence that the players had. They seem scared to do something and think too long about it then they end up turning the ball over. We have no attacking flair it seems. The players seem confused as to what they are meant to be doing on the field. SKILLS seem worse than when he took over.

Point 2 - From what I've seen he is no motivator and the players shite themselves when they have the ball and there is no instinctive play. The two games coming up will be heavy defeats again I reckon. The saints and dogs are playing much better than us and this will show in the next couple of wks. It doesn't matter who we have in the forward line cause our midfield is shocking. While our injuries are not great we had pretty much all players available at the start of the season except MC and we were still a disgrace.

Neeld went too hard on all players to early and never gained their respect but demanded it which is not the way it should have been done. IMO he has lost the players and this will come through in the next 2 games. If by some chance we are better I still think we should move him on and install Craig as interim until a quality coach is signed. The AFL will make sure this will be the case.

Finally I will be admitted to the nut house if the dud one survives cause he has taken all the joy and excitement out if watching the game. This weekend I was glad we didn't play and if I have this type of attitude how many other supporters do which is a massive worry if he stays.

Very true but this will change IF we start winning. No one likes losing, especially the way we do. Like i said, Neeld & crew have turned the wick up in a major way re training and drilling Skills Skills Skills (= more Confidence/increased attacking game style). However given this has only been from approx round 6 i doubt there's been long enough to make a difference to impact enough on the field under real match pressure. Too little too late in other words. However we aren't in the playing group and we aren't out there training it. So you never know. Might also be better late than never as well. He might have changed the focus just in time and with the buy coming just at the right moment to turn things around in the second half.

For an example of where this emphasis on skills/improvement in confidence/attack might slowly be cutting in take some time out if you want and watch the 3rd quarter against the Hawks again (arguably the best team in the comp) where we controlled the footy/match for most of the quarter both by hand and foot and in general play and won the quarter. Admittedly the Hawks may have taken their foot off the pedal a little but i doubt it. the Hawks are too professional to take their foot off a team's neck and it was the premiership quarter.

If we score 2 wins after the buy, and i'm not saying we will, i wonder how everyone might see things! Things can turn quickly. Mind you they would bloody well want to, for all concerned. As someone once said....I hope for the best but am preparing for the worst!

Edited June 16, 2013 by Rusty Nails

[DemonOX 8,529]

Craig is not an option as interim coach - MN and NC are inextricably linked, both must go and quickly.

Ok H I'll do it then I'm not linked with any at the club!

If not Craig who would u look at?

What about GL?????????????

[PJ_12345 1,098]

Craig is not an option as interim coach - MN and NC are inextricably linked, both must go and quickly.

PJ has expressed NC is the most and only experienced staff in the club repeatedly so it doesn't sound like he is too keen on getting rid of NC and MN at the same time.

50/50

[DemonOX 8,529]

If we score 2 wins after the buy, and i'm not saying we will, i wonder how eveyone might see things! Things can turn quickly. Mind you they would bloody well want to, for all concerned. As someone once said....I hope for the best but am preparing for the worst!

If we win the dud one still needs to go, he has done too much damage and players will leave in droves.

We will find out soon enough.

[Hardnut 327]

Ok H I'll do it then I'm not linked with any at the club!

If not Craig who would u look at?

What about GL?????????????

I will not speculate on either an interim coach or a future coach - hopefully, this time round those decisions rest with an informed group rather than one person.

[DemonFrog 1,347]

I will not speculate on either an interim coach or a future coach - hopefully, this time round those decisions rest with an informed group rather than one person.

Peter Jackson?

[Demon Dynasty 15,202]

SEN KB stated he has received word that all players have been called into the club and a presser called for 30 minutes. Neeld likely to he replaced by Craig announcement