Neeld apologists ... state your case.

[robbiefrom13 887]

I just don't know if he can ever win over the players with the way he came into the club putting everyone down before knowing his Jamar's from his Jones's.

Watching the post match today Grimes looked like a schoolboy that had just been told off, not the captain of an AFL team. I have this feeling Neeld doesn't empower them and that's why we lack effort and confidence.

Both Grimes and Watts were genuinely upset and unable to pinpoint what went wrong - "can't explain it, didn't see that coming..." So from all the things Neeld had been telling them, they imagined they were going really well. The facts of our NAB cup performance are different. Ergo, I say Neeld does get into their heads - as a coach should - but I don't have much respect fro the effect he's having on their thinking.

Neeld gets it wrong - what he told them about their progress was wrong. And Neeld himself says he was taken by surprise yesterday afternoon, when reality hit. That is a worry. Asking reporters for suggestions!

Neeld has no other ideas, apart from continuing to stress compliance. This is a guaranteed recipe for disaster.

Compliance is the language of building regulations and safety - not of excellence. Compliance ensures the authorities do not order the building torn town and started again - it is nothing to do with the language of architecture awards. Small wonder we look so unimaginative and conservative, so negatively minded.

Perhaps I'll be banned for suggesting this, but it nags away in my mind that Liam Jurrah came to Melbourne loving football and celebrated for the flair and instinct with which he graced the game. So exciting! When he left he was struggling to meet compliance standards related to skills other than his own. No longer so keen to get out on the park. And he was, so it would appear from what has come out of him ever since, becoming confused and angry. Would he have left and acted as he did if the game had continued to embrace him as it did in the beginning? I wonder about this, and don't feel good about it.

For all his natural intelligence and instincts for the game, Watts looked confused and lost yesterday. Neither he nor Grimes could come up with any insights into what went wrong. All of us who watched the game would have no difficulty telling them a few things, for a start (e.g., "man up", "get it out of there!", "spread!!" etc). So - what's happening to our players' minds under the present "compliance" regime?

[Schneider 220]

Sad Panda

[Whispering_Jack 30,242]

Some posters have already come up with the answer that we lacked "effort" and that sums it up for me. Port Adelaide was primed both physically and emotionally for a big effort. They had a new coach, a new look team and a fallen comrade to honour. They did it with effort and commitment to each other and their coach and, to a man, they did not hold back.

At one point when the game was already in its latter stages, the ball was delivered to a Melbourne player who was well in the clear but his Port Adelaide opponent made up 15 - 20 metres to get to the contest. He didn't make it on time but his presence close by ensured that the Melbourne player wasn't able to play on and move the ball quickly. That's what I call effort and it's that which was routinely missing from our team's play yesterday. If the coaching group is unable to rectify this, then there will be more repeats of yesterday's failures.

[Benson 254]

Mark Neeld said that they had trained a certain way for 4 months during the pre season, and on game day it was non existent.

So during pre season, did they practice an alternative to the main game style? Better yet, at what point during a thumping do yo say, just go man on man?

Disappointed.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

because your a dreamer who accepts losing and passes responsibility to others for making big decisions that influence the future of your existence.

This doesn't make any sense. I could have a field day with a statement like this, but I'll resist the temptation - it's actually too easy and won't achieve anything in any event.

As an observation, the mob always goes feral when things are uncertain/look bad, whether it be in politics, religion or even footy.

Yesterday's performance was unbelievably bad. I did not see it coming, and I'll still don't quite understand how it happened. That said, it's one game. I am, however, very nervous about next week/the rest of the year.

However, I refuse to roll out the same response as many others which seems to be "do something MFC - don't know what exactly, but just do something - now - perhaps sack the entire football department".

IMO that's not necessarily a particularly clever response - I understand where it comes from, but it's not very smart.

I trust the judgement of the likes of Neeld, Craig, Misson, Todd Viney, Jade Rawlings, Leigh Brown - these guys are all experienced footy men. They strike me as being very capable - far more capable in fact than many posters here.

I want to read their analysis and reflections on the game during the week.

So, nope - I am not dreaming - it's quite the opposite actually, I am trying to keep a calm head despite being bloody p1ssed off and embarrassed with the insipid efforts of the player group yesterday.

[Sir Why You Little 37,052]

This doesn't make any sense. I could have a field day with a statement like this, but I'll resist the temptation - it's actually too easy and won't achieve anything in any event.

As an observation, the mob always goes feral when things are uncertain/look bad, whether it be in politics, religion or even footy.

Yesterday's performance was unbelievably bad. I did not see it coming, and I'll still don't quite understand how it happened. That said, it's one game. I am, however, very nervous about next week/the rest of the year.

However, I refuse to roll out the same response as many others which seems to be "do something MFC - don't know what exactly, but just do something - now - perhaps sack the entire football department".

IMO that's not necessarily a particularly clever response - I understand where it comes from, but it's not very smart.

I trust the judgement of the likes of Neeld, Craig, Misson, Todd Viney, Jade Rawlings, Leigh Brown - these guys are all experienced footy men. They strike me as being very capable - far more capable in fact than many posters here.

I want to read their analysis and reflections on the game during the week.

So, nope - I am not dreaming - it's quite the opposite actually, I am trying to keep a calm head despite being bloody p1ssed off and embarrassed with the insipid efforts of the player group yesterday.

time for radical thoughts Ron.

Jack Viney Captain. Build the list around him.

He and Clark were the only 2 that gave their all yesterday.

If this club does not get radical it won't survive.

[pantaloons 2,019]

This all comes back to the coaching hire in the first place. People here will staunchly claim that we had no chance of landing Malthouse. That Roos would not have come back for anything. That an experienced coach with some clout like Eade or Sheedy before him was not worth pursuing. That we knew best. It's the attitude of losers. Great clubs make these things happen. At least if the team failed under a great coach you'd at least be able to identify the exact problem, run the team bus off a cliff and start afresh.

[Deecisive 1,709]

I am astounded that the coaches and Watts made statements like "we didnt see it coming" what that the opposition would want the ball and you guys did not. There has been a few calls for the coach to be sacked, a bit early in the year for that. Lets see how the boys take this loss, if they use this as a spur to not let it happen again (hmmm didnt we say that after the Carlton game a couple of years ago).. anyway. One left field approach maybe to sack a player. that way the put all players on notice that they are not safe and allows us to promote a rookie, sure we are going to go one man short on our list but I'm sure there are some players that we are just not going to miss.

[deegirl 1,578]

Yesterday was horrible, they've gotten so bad it's difficult to prioritise which problems need to be addressed first.

This is old fashioned, but the coach isn't on the ground with the players - they're the ones who are in the contests, helping their teammates, spreading, putting pressure on - as a collective there is very little intensity about our game. No matter how confusing or restrictive the coaches instructions these blokes should want to smash every contest they're in and they don't.

Example - Frawley used to be an animal for it. You could see he hated being beaten & threw everything he had at beating his man. Now he looks either disinterested or half hearted. He's had some injuries but that shouldn't have ruined his intensity.

As a supporter watching this stuff I constantly wonder are they not embarrassed - and not even by the loses, but the fact that as an individual they didn't give it 100%. After an effort like yesterday you could count on one hand the few that could look their teammates in the eye.

Edited March 31, 2013 by deegirl

[rjay 24,993]

I am astounded that the coaches and Watts made statements like "we didnt see it coming" what that the opposition would want the ball and you guys did not. There has been a few calls for the coach to be sacked, a bit early in the year for that. Lets see how the boys take this loss, if they use this as a spur to not let it happen again (hmmm didnt we say that after the Carlton game a couple of years ago).. anyway. One left field approach maybe to sack a player. that way the put all players on notice that they are not safe and allows us to promote a rookie, sure we are going to go one man short on our list but I'm sure there are some players that we are just not going to miss.

I was trying to not see it coming too but I'm not paid to see it coming. The performances against StKilda, GC and the Casey Demons performances pointed to exactly what was coming.

[Guest]

It reminds me of the Bush Administration post the GFC. 'We couldn't have seen this coming!'

One thing I will give Daniher and even Bailey (hell, he put the shutters up against Carlton in 2011 during the bruise free game to avoid a blow out), is that they at least showed signs of having a different plan from their usual. When the s*** hits the fan, where is the adaptability from the coaches box?

[loges 6,767]

He was an All Australian in a garbage team two years ago.

Neeld came in and took away his natural game and his natural instincts. It's not as if the ball was coming down the backline less under Bailey.

I wouldn't blame him for wanting out. He is a wasted talent and he could be winning flags with Hawthorn or Collingwood or Carlton.

If we lost Frawley, make no mistake about it, it would be up there in terms of disasters than it we lost Clark.

If all the talented players in the AFL wanted out because their club was near the bottom we wouldn't have much of a competition left, would we? People of character stick when the going is toughest. Seems like he has a touch of the Moloney's

[DeeZee 7,425]

Frawley was a great one on one player when he was all Australian, now he is a zoning player...he may not be so good at this.

Surely you must coach a team based on strengths?

Otherwise you are developing new weaknesses.

Edited April 1, 2013 by DeeZee

[Pirlo 813]

Yesterday was horrible, they've gotten so bad it's difficult to prioritise which problems need to be addressed first.

This is old fashioned, but the coach isn't on the ground with the players - they're the ones who are in the contests, helping their teammates, spreading, putting pressure on - as a collective there is very little intensity about our game. No matter how confusing or restrictive the coaches instructions these blokes should want to smash every contest they're in and they don't.

Example - Frawley used to be an animal for it. You could see he hated being beaten & threw everything he had at beating his man. Now he looks either disinterested or half hearted. He's had some injuries but that shouldn't have ruined his intensity.

As a supporter watching this stuff I constantly wonder are they not embarrassed - and not even by the loses, but the fact that as an individual they didn't give it 100%. After an effort like yesterday you could count on one hand the few that could look their teammates in the eye.

Takes me back a bit to a man I now love to hate, Brent Moloney. He didn't follow Neeld's instructions from the coaches box, look where it landed him. The players are afraid of the coach, which is good, but the coach doesn't actually know how to set them up to win, which is bad.

[rpfc 28,542]

They are spiritless and are not bold and they look like they do not enjoy their job.

That has got to be on the head coach.

He has time but he has a long way back because yesterday wasn't a step back - it was an uppercut that put us on our arse.

Get them to like footy again.

Play like Sam plays.

[MH. 88]

You won't sack a coach after round 1, but if the team is insipid against GWS in round 4 he's gone.

Under the same circumstances the ruthless clubs of the AFL just wouldn't tolerate it. There comes a time when you've got to cut your losses. He has a few games to turn things around.

[Older demon 2,741]

First of all it was wrong for the club to decide under Neeld that it would strip things back and throw all the Bailey years out with the bathwater and start again. Clubs like Sydney and North knew they could not afford to bottom out and get high draft pocks yet here they are diligently making subtle changes to their list and getting better. In retrospect Hawthorn is the only team that has really bottomed out got high draft picks and done that successfully.

The club is paying a heavy price as supporters and sponsors have had enough and are proving exactly what Sydney and North feared, if you stay down too long you become irrelevant and just cannot get up of the canvas.

As much as I dislike Neeld, all show and no substance who talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk, I cannot see any value in sacking him unless there is a Dennis Pagan like coach waiting in the wings to pick up the pieces as North did all those years ago pre season. The admin made a mistake, the wrong coach was selected, the strategy was high risk and has failed and the club has slipped back lower than pre Bailey all easy in hindsight, so we have to move forward and this year is going to be bad, really bad but wait till years end to make change at all levels!

I would suggest a coach for the future though.. Junior McDonald, currently learning about the caper under Sheedy, in his second year as an assistant coach and a tough uncompromising leader who should never have been treated with such disrespect by the club.

[titan_uranus 25,020]

Dean Bailey won 16 games and drew 2 in two seasons. Neeld would love a record like that, and he was given the exact same list as Bailey had those years. Why do Melbourne supporters act like Bailey was the worst thing that ever happened to this club?

Because he was one of the worst things to happen to this club.

As a club, we went nowhere whilst he was here. Chalking up meaningless wins in 2010 doesn't change that. He coached our players to be a bunch of downhill skiiers - sometimes this ended up with us winning by 10 goals, but the general problem was that we didn't have defensiveness. We were drastically unfit under his leadership. We didn't play like a team, and we didn't have any plan B, or C, or D. Dean Bailey was not a good coach, and pointing to his win-loss record as being better than Mark Neeld's is ridiculous.

Neeld is clearly struggling. He's taken that list, flawed and all, and not been able to make much improvement to it. We're still not a team. We're still not fit. We still don't have a plan B, or C. But those are things which Neeld did not create. They're things which he has failed to fix.

Edited April 1, 2013 by titan_uranus

[1 red eye 1 blue eye 771]

This all comes back to the coaching hire in the first place. People here will staunchly claim that we had no chance of landing Malthouse. That Roos would not have come back for anything. That an experienced coach with some clout like Eade or Sheedy before him was not worth pursuing. That we knew best. It's the attitude of losers. Great clubs make these things happen. At least if the team failed under a great coach you'd at least be able to identify the exact problem, run the team bus off a cliff and start afresh.

I completely agree with this.

At the time I was excited that we had a very good chance of landing an experienced coach but then had to put faith in the Club when MN was appointed. I was excited when I knew Nic Nat was coming to our Club after it was obvious we'd win the spoon, and then had to trust the Club when Jack was picked. I was excited by the push into China and the Energy Watch sponsorship. I was excited when Cam pencilled in Scully and Trengove and Run, on a restaurant napkin. There have been so many times where left field decisions have been made that just haven't moved us forward, please don't comment on each item in isolation that's not my point. I can no longer trust the decision making by those in charge, the time has come where this is no longer acceptable, unfortunately the owner/s of these ideas must be replaced and if the Board have given the go ahead to these ideas, must accept that they have also failed.

Edit I can wait but it must happen.

Edited April 1, 2013 by 1 red eye 1 blue eye

[Kureemy 22]

What if Melbourne loses to GWS round 4 and Gold Coast round 7. Will Neeldy be goneski?

[Deecisive 1,709]

The coach has to devise a team plan to suit his team and the teams make up. Neeld is trying to make us play a collingwood game without collingwood quality players. It is not working. Strengths of the team are being lost as we try to play a foreign game plan that confuses the players. Neeld said it will take 3-4 years to get his game plan, really 3-4 years is it that difficult? maybe he needs an interim plan, something that involves players getting involved and tackling. I dont think many clubs are going to be afraid of us if we are 5 meters behind protecting a patch of earth instead of a man.

[dee_star 63]

Because he was one of the worst things to happen to this club.

As a club, we went nowhere whilst he was here. Chalking up meaningless wins in 2010 doesn't change that. He coached our players to be a bunch of downhill skiiers - sometimes this ended up with us winning by 10 goals, but the general problem was that we didn't have defensiveness. We were drastically unfit under his leadership. We didn't play like a team, and we didn't have any plan B, or C, or D.

Really?

In 2010 we had the 8th ranked Defence in the AFL while we used the 3rd most players in the AFL that year, continuing to get games into our draftees.

In fact up until 186 we had the 9th ranked Defence in the AFL in 2011 as well. These were vast improvements on the 2008 and 2009 Defensive rankings of 15th and 15th.

Yes we got blown out against better teams at times but make no mistake, the sacking of Dean Bailey had much more to do with Cameron Schwab's situation than it had to do with the Coaching performance. I don't want to be an apologist for Bailey but like new Governments that blame everything on their predecessor, it's easy to deflect attention by blaming the past. I haven't seen that from Ross Lyon, Sanderson, Hinckley or McCartney at all. They have all put in new systems and within six months showed or are showing now clear direction on where they are going.

On the fitness, it looks to me like we are far more unfit than we were two years ago. I've had the chance to see us train a couple of times over the last two pre-seasons and we do a lot of middle distance type running. I'm not sure how much this actually reflects game running where players have to sprint then be involved in the play then work back to their position then go again. It's no wonder we looked one-paced yesterday when Port were able to burst away from us.

[P-man 13,366]

I agree with those who were floored by the repeated "we didn't see it coming". Christ, I saw it coming, and I can't have been the only one. I can somewhat accept Grimes looking completely dejected and without answers at the presser, but for Neeld to have the same look about him is worrying.

Nothing in the pre-season indicated we were going to be up for this. The first team, even something close to resembling it, did not play together once during the entire NAB Cup. It was a bunch of mix n matches. To me, for a team at our stage of development, that is madness.

The heat is on him now, and rightly so. On the face of it, his moneyball approach bringing in names like Byrnes, Rodan and Dawes has attracted widespread derision from opposition fans, but has been defendable. Yesterday the two senior recruits became invisible on the field and their skill execution was at times very poor. They would rightly both be dropped but we need some maturity on the field, and they're it. In time, these are the decisions that we may look back on in a different light to now.

As someone else pointed out, if we get smashed by GWS in Round 4 and then GC in Round 7, it will be difficult to defend him remaining as coach in my view. Things are at a critical stage for this club.

Edited April 1, 2013 by P_Man

[Bonkers 994]

First of all it was wrong for the club to decide under Neeld that it would strip things back and throw all the Bailey years out with the bathwater and start again. Clubs like Sydney and North knew they could not afford to bottom out and get high draft pocks yet here they are diligently making subtle changes to their list and getting better. In retrospect Hawthorn is the only team that has really bottomed out got high draft picks and done that successfully.

The club is paying a heavy price as supporters and sponsors have had enough and are proving exactly what Sydney and North feared, if you stay down too long you become irrelevant and just cannot get up of the canvas.

As much as I dislike Neeld, all show and no substance who talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk, I cannot see any value in sacking him unless there is a Dennis Pagan like coach waiting in the wings to pick up the pieces as North did all those years ago pre season. The admin made a mistake, the wrong coach was selected, the strategy was high risk and has failed and the club has slipped back lower than pre Bailey all easy in hindsight, so we have to move forward and this year is going to be bad, really bad but wait till years end to make change at all levels!

I would suggest a coach for the future though.. Junior McDonald, currently learning about the caper under Sheedy, in his second year as an assistant coach and a tough uncompromising leader who should never have been treated with such disrespect by the club.

The club needs a proven coach who is a available who can build a culture. If Neeld is eventually proved to not be the right man as current evidence may suggest I won't support another unproven appointment.

[DemonDave 1,089]

The match against Port represents the nadir of my Demons supporting life. What a pathetic team. They are incapable of improvement irrespective of changes in the coaching panel or player list. Till this point i have accepted and rationalised one false dawn after another. no more. Here are a few of my grievances:

1. I couldn't understand why we would recruit Pedersen, Byrnes, Gillies and Rodan. Dawes is still an unknown quantity. Why would we pick up players that are incapable of making a superior team's playing list, particularly Rodan & Byrnes who are past their prime? I have been vindicated in my belief they were all mistakes by their abysmal performances.

2. Like many I have been giving Neeld time to create a new culture but the evidence seems to be he is incapable of doing so. His grim demeanour and platitudinous statistical utterings have proven to be hollow and meaningless. There is no evidence of any gameplan and has been none since he arrived. The players play with no flair or verve under his regime. I never thought I would look back fondly to the excesses of the Dean Bailey era but I am! Yes they lost routinely by ten goals but occasionally they would win by a similar amount playing with run and energy. Not under Neeld! His dour world of statistical analysis yields heavy losses without redeeming wins and with joyless and boring football. He is not the saviour!

3. I know it has been regularly commented upon but how can we have transformed a decade of high draft picks into such a mediocre and pedestrian playing list? Where is MFC's Cyril Rioli or Marc Murphy or Patrick Dangerfield or Dustin Martin or Tex Walker? I could have continued for an hour listing young players with leadership, excitement, the X-factor, physicality, speed. Apart from possibly Jack Viney which Demons recruit exhibits any of these qualities? Jack Watts seems to be a terrific guy but growing a bushranger beard does not make you tough. He never looks like imposing himself on a contest and gets brushed aside by 70kg mosquitoes. All the others have similar failings. They are slow, poor decision makers, timid and introverted. What the ***k were our recruiters looking for? The only line breaker in the entire squad is Blease and his delivery and decision making are generally atrocious. I could continue but my point is made.

4. These qualities or lack thereof are endemic through the majority of our list. We are too slow, too timid, too lazy, not tall enough, not physical enough, not tough enough, mentally weak, too introverted, not creative enough, have no X-factor, can't win contested possessions, can't win stoppages, can't kick accurately or long, have no game-plan, not skilled enough, never look like taking a contested mark apart from Clarke and Howe, never go for a mark in the back line, never spread forward of the ball to provide options...I could go on for a month.

I have never felt so negative about the MFC. I have supported them painfully now since early childhood for over 45 years and to be honest the investment of passion has not returned any profit whatsoever. I would normally disapprove of supporters boo-ing their players at half time but I understood it completely yesterday. I wished I was there to join in andd register my disgust as well. We have all had enough!