AFL investigation

[Hannibal 5,814]

Have none of you realised that any Jay Clark article is simply bereft of substance and frequently just regurgitating already weak articles from previous weeks..?

I think so. Especially where I said, "there's nothing new here",

[mjt 640]

... putting an end to the coaching careers of a number of people including Dean Bailey who only a fortnight ago (through his manager) denied that he tanked. Has he now recanted on that and if so, can his evidence be relied upon? Do you have a source for this information?

All i can say is i hope they punish the individuals and not the club, from what i have been told they have a case to answer, im sure Hells Gates would have heard the same.

[Guest José Mourinho]

I think so. Especially where I said, "there's nothing new here",

Yes, I know you do.

The post was more aimed at the general demonland population.

I didn't deem it necessary to say "none of you bar Ben-Hur" or "none of you bar a select few", or even "you, the overexcitable pessimistic cretins".

It was really just a general throwaway statement that I didn't think you'd bother to even read.

Read as: Jay Clark articles should be dismissed out of hand as a general rule.

[rumpole 518]

your heads that far in the sand its not funny, there screwed, the whole coaching panel in 2009 has rolled over.

mjt - as a sh!t stirrer, I mark you an E- but if you hang around long enough you might improve your ranking a little because some of the best of them hang around here pretending they have the club's interests at heart.

In short, you're way out of your depth.

[Hannibal 5,814]

All i can say is i hope they punish the individuals and not the club, from what i have been told they have a case to answer, im sure Hells Gates would have heard the same.

Still waiting for quotes...

[Hannibal 5,814]

Yes, I know you do.

The post was more aimed at the general demonland population.

I didn't deem it necessary to say "none of you bar Ben-Hur" or "none of you bar a select few", or even "you, the overexcitable pessimistic cretins".

It was really just a general throwaway statement that I didn't think you'd bother to even read.

Read as: Jay Clark articles should be dismissed out of hand as a general rule.

It's best to learn the art of not making blanket statements. Pink Floyd had also said, "nothing new here".

It just seemed a strange comment, as it was at odds with previous posters' contributions.

[Demon Stalwart 255]

Remember these Famous Words from Andrew Demetriou

“My view is that (tanking) hasn’t existed, that people have experimented, list management, whatever you want to call it.”

If I’m proven to be wrong, that’s fine by me because – if someone wants to come forward and provide evidence – then we should investigate it,” Demetriou told Fox Footy

Andrew Demetriou is expected to outline tomorrow sanctions that will apply to the MFC if tanking allocations are proven true

The following is expected to apply

Loss of one Firstround pick from 2009 ,

The coach involved during the tanking period will leave the Melbourne Football Club

Those ex Players that tanked during this period will also leave the club.

The clubs fitness coach and fitness boss at the time of the tanking event will also leave the MFC Club

And last but not least The MFC will forfiet all Finals Premiership points it has won since the Tanking affair is deemed to have occured

I think the above penalties are more than Fair

[PJ_12345 1,098]

Still waiting for quotes...

I wouldn't hold your breath

[rpfc 28,542]

It's best to learn the art of not making blanket statements. Pink Floyd had also said, "nothing new here".

It just seemed a strange comment, as it was at odds with previous posters' contributions.

Lol

This from a poster who claimed we were all 'dumber than he thought' as we reacted to a former-mod-cum-troll.

mjt - the coaching staff has not all rolled over, on what world would Bailey bring to ruin his own career?

Give me a disaffected Prendergast whispering conspiracy to Clothier and I will show you a former head coach vehemently denying any wrongdoing.

[dee-luded 2,959]

mjt - as a sh!t stirrer, I mark you an E- but if you hang around long enough you might improve your ranking a little because some of the best of them hang around here pretending they have the club's interests at heart.

In short, you're way out of your depth.

he's tanking, trying to go easy on us.

just lucky he's not trying to rebuild our culture or he'd sacrifice anyone who has made a mistake in representing us.

pretty soon he'd be taking one 19 yr old per year, to the precipice of an active Volcano.

[hoopla 418]

And that also includes our current Football Manager.

Yes .... but what did he actually say?

Perhaps it was : " I confirm that 2009 was about developing our young players for the future - it wasn't about winning as many games as we possibly could". Hardly a disloyal admission of guilt!

The unfortunate thing about this "investigation" is how much it sings of McCarthyism - a disgraceful episode in US history, and one that I had hoped I wouldn't observe in any area in Australia in 2012/3.

Everything in this current "investigation" seems to be based on wholly unreliable innuendo. In my observation to date, the investigators and the commentators conducting this "show trial" are unsophisticated in the extreme and seem determined to achieve an outcome irrespective of whether the underlying evidence actually supports such a conclusion/outcome.

It's interesting to note the description of McCarthyism on Wikipedia to see the similarities to the way in which this "investigation" seems to have been conducted:

"McCarthyism is the practice of making accusations of disloyalty, subversion, or treason without proper regard for evidence. It also means "the practice of making unfair allegations or using unfair investigative techniques, especially in order to restrict dissent or political criticism."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

I wouldn't mind going to court on this. I suspect it wouldn't be particularly pleasant for the likes of the "investigators" or Ms Wilson if we did take that step.

I like it

Is Anderson's middle initial "M"?

( Unfortunately some innocents did suffer through McCarthyism)

[mjt 640]

Lol

This from a poster who claimed we were all 'dumber than he thought' as we reacted to a former-mod-cum-troll.

mjt - the coaching staff has not all rolled over, on what world would Bailey bring to ruin his own career?

Give me a disaffected Prendergast whispering conspiracy to Clothier and I will show you a former head coach vehemently denying any wrongdoing.

Bailey hasnt , but the rest have, including our Football Manager, thats what i was told, if its true or not who would know.

[Guest José Mourinho]

Bailey hasnt , but the rest have, including our Football Manager, thats what i was told, if its true or not who would know.

I can confirm that anything you'd have been personally told is pure fantasy.

Some of it may turn out to be true, but no one that actually knows would be foolish enough to confide in you.

Take my word for it.

[mjt 640]

I can confirm that anything you'd have been personally told is pure fantasy.

Some of it may turn out to be true, but no one that actually knows would be foolish enough to confide in you.

Take my word for it.

Thats coming from someone whos had multiple accounts on Demonland, give me a break.

[Guest José Mourinho]

Thats coming from someone whos had multiple accounts on Demonland, give me a break.

That's the best you've got?

Assuming it's true, what relevance does that have?

You're not a very good troll, are you?

Take it from me - nobody in a postion to know anything would bother telling you, of all people.

[dee-luded 2,959]

~ just to remember where we've just come from & what we've ALL been thru... many people have put they're balls on the line.

2008: Birthday celebrations and financial crisis

This article or section may be slanted towards recent events. Please try to keep recent events in historical perspective. (April 2012)

Off field, the club remained in serious turmoil. In the first sign of troubles in February 2008, CEO Steve Harris resigned. Paul Gardner addressed the media in response to comments from the club's auditors spelling disaster for the club. Gardner reiterated that the club had posted a $97,000 profit at the end of 2007.^[6] Harris was replaced by the high profile former Wimbledon tennis champion Paul McNamee.^[7] Despite celebrating the club's birthday with an official mid-season function at Crown Casino,^[8] shortly afterward chairman Paul Gardner resigned, handing the presidency to former club champion Jim Stynes who inherited a $4.5 million debt, which media pundits suggested would cripple the club.^[9]Hawthorn's president Jeff Kennett caused controversy with remarks about relocating the Demons to the Gold Coast,^[10] something which Stynes spoke against. AFL CEO Andrew Demetriou dispelled the notion that the club's future was in doubt, but admitted that Stynes' board faced a huge challenge.^[11] Demons legend, games and goalkicking record holder, David Neitz, announced his immediate retirement due to injury on 9 May.^[12]

Stynes wasted no time attempting to change the club's direction and eliminate debt, introducing a drive called "Debt Demolition", beginning with a call for members to sign-up.^[13] Under Stynes' direction, the new board sacked Paul McNamee after just four months. During McNamee's tenure, he had drawn criticisms for holidaying in Wimbledon to compete in a legends match and after his sacking an attempt to lure Brisbane Lions star Jonathan Brown was also revealed.^[14] A 5 August fundraiser raised $1.3 million. The club raised well over $3 million.^[15] Despite the reduced debt, in November new club CEO Cameron Schwab declared that it required urgent AFL assistance to continue, requesting additional funding to its special annual distribution. In December, a fallout in negotiations between the Melbourne Cricket Club resulted in the MCC not committing an expected $2 million to the club and Schwab declared that the club's immediate future was in doubt.^[16]

This doubt was quickly put to bed when the AFL and MCC finalised negotioations. The AFL committed $1million to the club in 2009, with the MCC matching the AFL contribution.^[17]

2009: Improvement

This article or section may be slanted towards recent events. Please try to keep recent events in historical perspective. (April 2012)

By the midpoint of the 2009 season, things had improved both on and off field for Melbourne. They had secured a record number of members, remerged with the MCC, knocked-off more debt and were starting to show some fight on field. Players such as Liam Jurrah had begun to emerge as top young talents and were catching the eye of the footballing public. However, on the eve of the Round 14 clash against West Coast, influential president Jim Stynes announced that he had cancer, this evoked a very emotional response from the footballing public and the club lifted from three embarrassing defeats the weeks before to convincingly beat West Coast in front of a passionate MCG crowd. At the end of the season, Melbourne finished 16th on the ladder and for a second year in a row won no more than four games which granted them a Priority Pick in the National Draft. Melbourne therefore had picks 1 and 2 in the draft to build on their young talent. At the end of the season fan favourites Russell Robertson, Matthew Whelan and Paul Wheatley announced that they would no longer be playing for Melbourne in 2010 and beyond. During September 2009, midfielder Brock McLean asked to be a traded and a deal involving Carlton's pick 11 in the National Draft was agreed to.^[18]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melbourne_FC#2008:_Birthday_celebrations_and_financial_crisis

[mjt 640]

That's the best you've got?

Assuming it's true, what relevance does that have?

You're not a very good troll, are you?

Take it from me - nobody in a postion to know anything would bother telling you, of all people.

If someone has a different opinion to your narrow minded one it does not mean there a troll, Back in your Cage son.

[Guest José Mourinho]

If someone has a different opinion to your narrow minded one it does not mean there a troll, Back in your Cage son.

Don't worry princess, it's not based on the fact you have a different opinion...

[mjt 640]

Don't worry princess, it's not based on the fact you have a different opinion...

Lets revisit this in 3 months time when CS has been banished by the AFL and the club has to pay out 6 months of his new 3 year contract, see how your feeling then princess.

[1858 285]

"The Herald Sun can reveal some of the interviewees were subsequently told as many as 12 people had provided the AFL's investigators with potentially incriminating details about the club's intent throughout the second half of the 2009 campaign."

So the interviewees were told this, rather than gave details themselves.

It is hard to read where this is at but it sounds like the figures who matter have held their position as most of us suspect. If the extent of the details is heresay and scuttlebutt then it doesn't matter how many people have provided "information". Perhaps the club mascots had something to say, this figure of 12 is potentially meaningless.

The way the investigators have gone about things is the more meaningful to date.

[Sir Why You Little 37,052]

Lets revisit this in 3 months time when CS has been banished by the AFL and the club has to pay out 6 months of his new 3 year contract, see how your feeling then princess.

So you are telling us from an inside source that Schwab TOLD Bailey to TANK over dinner at his place?

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

So you are telling us from an inside source that Schwab TOLD Bailey to TANK over dinner at his place?

That would have to be one of those inside sauces that get a mention from time to time

[nutbean 8,838]

Lets revisit this in 3 months time when CS has been banished by the AFL and the club has to pay out 6 months of his new 3 year contract, see how your feeling then princess.

Not that I am entertaining the above but it does raise a financial question - the contracts of our administrators must contain an AFL clause. Otherwise how can an administrator that is employed by the MFC, be banished by the AFL and yet the club has to pay out the contract ?

If no clause exists you would be telling the AFL banish whoever they like but they have to pay out the contracts not us.

[Dr John Dee 1,057]

I'd hazard a guess that the AFL decided it might need to target individuals the moment the Club mentioned we were getting The Fink on board. But I also assume that the Club's unlikely to step out of the way and let any individual fight whatever findings/punishment might end up being announced.

[Guest José Mourinho]

"The Herald Sun can reveal some of the interviewees were subsequently told as many as 12 people had provided the AFL's investigators with potentially incriminating details about the club's intent throughout the second half of the 2009 campaign."

So many qualifiers it is laughable. Do they actually KNOW anything?

So the interviewees were told this, rather than gave details themselves.

Intimidation tactics by interviewers, exactly as alleged weeks ago.

No evidence yet that it is a true statement.

It is hard to read where this is at but it sounds like the figures who matter have held their position as most of us suspect. If the extent of the details is heresay and scuttlebutt then it doesn't matter how many people have provided "information". Perhaps the club mascots had something to say, this figure of 12 is potentially meaningless.

The way the investigators have gone about things is the more meaningful to date.

I'd guess one of the medical staff and/or the physical conditioning staff have given limited information to the investigators, and the rest is circumstantial.