2Day FM Prank ends in tragedy

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

What so our finances are More important legislative issues than protecting our societies values & safety???

I think it does, because our young learn & are led more these days by they're peers than they're parents... they have more respect for the Idols & peers. and so are infected by these so called "Stars"

This Is why these Issues are so Important. Because these Media "Stars" have little scrupuls... and are money oriented rather than 100% caring of the community.

Stupid people educating stupid people, who cares? Are you serious? Here's your problem, & you don't seem to get that it is a problem.

Who taught you, this attitude? you could well search inside.

The issue of the shock jocks & really poor media behaviors isn't a one off,, & is heading in a direction off the planet.

The media is out of control at the moment as they think as long as they're trying to earn profits for some Company,,, then they have right on they're side. As if Money is more important the Life.

.....and the boards, as faceless men/people, think they are above the peoples Law....

..........time gentleman, please.....

Mate, you need to work on your reading comprehension.

1 - I never said that finances take priority over social issues. I said there are other issues that should take priority before prank calls. Some of those may be social, some economic. I did not specify. Your assumption that I inferred that financial issues are more important than social ones is flawed.

2 - I said 'entertaining', not 'educated'. Who educated you?

3 - There was no need to personal attacks, nowhere in any of my posts did I attack anyone. In fact, we had a constructive dialogue before you decided to post your travesty above.

4 - I'm struggling to understand your last section, in red. You seem to think this suicide is some sort of social turning point? Something we should all rally around for societal change like Rosa Parks? I've already said that the issue is just not that important.

If you'd like to discuss these issues in a clam and reasonable matter, I'd be more than happy to engage with you. If you're just going to attack my attitude and spew out nonsensical politicised crap then I'm just going to ignore it. Contribute like a grown-up or take your bat and ball and go home.

Edited December 10, 2012 by Choke

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

Choke might be right - I am seizing my opportunity here, to attack something I hate. I am making use of a suicide that may have had all sorts of complicated causes.

Where I am coming from is what dee-luded referred to - the School Yard. As a school-teacher, I can't stand seeing weak kids slavishly follow mindless models that are feted on radio and tv, etc, and growing up habituated to anti-social and selfishly unproductive patterns of behaviour. And I hate seeing the collateral victims of loud self-serving bullies getting hurt. I believe that we have always had those hard-hearted or very stupid and ambitious individuals who seize on their opportunities to boost themselves by taking others down. Shakespeare railed against gongoozling idiots - the sort who stand and drink and stare and mock. Part of history, and we now see new sorts of hurt being inflicted through the unregulated power of media/celebrity/communications technology. Somewhere along the line, we will call a stop. Usually too late.

The thing about the slave trade, or the sale of cigarettes, is that at the time no-one thought anything of it at all - slaves just were inferior, and they benefitted from us taking their lives in hand and so on. Think stolen generations - done for their own good as much as anything. Cigarettes were good for your nerves! In the pot, the frog would tell you if asked, "no, this is not too bad. Well, I'm actually enjoying it..."

I'm not arguing against all change.

I'm arguing against changing things so low on our list of priorities that we shouldn't even be debating it, especially when WE STILL HAVE NO PROOF THAT THE TWO INCIDENTS ARE RELATED.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Choke might be right - I am seizing my opportunity here, to attack something I hate. I am making use of a suicide that may have had all sorts of complicated causes.

Where I am coming from is what dee-luded referred to - the School Yard. As a school-teacher, I can't stand seeing weak kids slavishly follow mindless models that are feted on radio and tv, etc, and growing up habituated to anti-social and selfishly unproductive patterns of behaviour. And I hate seeing the collateral victims of loud self-serving bullies getting hurt. I believe that we have always had those hard-hearted or very stupid and ambitious individuals who seize on their opportunities to boost themselves by taking others down. Shakespeare railed against gongoozling idiots - the sort who stand and drink and stare and mock. Part of history, and we now see new sorts of hurt being inflicted through the unregulated power of media/celebrity/communications technology. Somewhere along the line, we will call a stop. Usually too late.

The thing about the slave trade, or the sale of cigarettes, is that at the time no-one thought anything of it at all - slaves just were inferior, and they benefitted from us taking their lives in hand and so on. Think stolen generations - done for their own good as much as anything. Cigarettes were good for your nerves! In the pot, the frog would tell you if asked, "no, this is not too bad. Well, I'm actually enjoying it..."

This argument is an example of the failing our the democratic system.

Many of the people, don't think deeply about issues, for feeling unworthy or unable to. So they will follow blindly as witnessed of the footy show when Sam makes a point, merely with the use of a full throated Voice, stated strongly. The people largely fall straight in behind him, mistaking his conviction for being correct. Thoughtless following. (Sheep)

My point is that our democratic system has become infested with aggressive narrow minded people who have they're own narrow set of agendas, & some beliefs. But these more aggressively spoken politicians pull the wings off the more placid but often more thoughtful & caring others, like most Scientists.

People often see the placid argument as weaker,,, as it has less conviction,, in the face of the aggressor's argumentation. But it is more about the thoughtful, being less willing to fight & argue, or stoop to a lower level.

They're own conscience works against they're fight for right... Aggression V Passivity...

# Is it, the so called Rebirth of Spiritualism about Christ returning, or about a rebellion of passive minded people collectively taking back they're Rights, as Human Beings & Life itself demands. Or both?

Is it best to leave the heavy lifting to "Others", & the risk, "she'll be right",,, or is there a time to stand for something!

[dee-luded 2,958]

Mate, you need to work on your reading comprehension.

1 - I never said that finances take priority over social issues. I said there are other issues that should take priority before prank calls. Some of those may be social, some economic. I did not specify. Your assumption that I inferred that financial issues are more important than social ones is flawed.

2 - I said 'entertaining', not 'educated'. Who educated you?

3 - There was no need to personal attacks, nowhere in any of my posts did I attack anyone. In fact, we had a constructive dialogue before you decided to post your travesty above.

4 - I'm struggling to understand your last section, in red. You seem to think this suicide is some sort of social turning point? Something we should all rally around for societal change like Rosa Parks? I've already said that the issue is just not that important.

If you'd like to discuss these issues in a clam and reasonable matter, I'd be more than happy to engage with you. If you're just going to attack my attitude and spew out nonsensical politicised crap then I'm just going to ignore it. Contribute like a grown-up or take your bat and ball and go home.

2/ Life has educated me, & a need to examine, after much abuse.

3/ Personal attack, you should apply your reading comprehension, as it wasn't an attack, but a suggestion that you could investigate your inner workings for your betterment. you would I'm sure learn a lot. And be surprised.

4/ the world is going thru a turning point atmo, If you look thru a different prism to the one your using, you may notice many small issues over the last few years, where people are starting to rebell against what they're sick of, - re the middle easts politics, the march down Sydney Rd, the funeral the other day in Queensland for the little boy lost, all over the place they're are exhibits of people starting o get engaged with they're lot in life.

#Too many for me to remember off the cuff.

# I wasn't attacking you, If I did you Would definately know it. And I am clam.

Do youself a favour & put yourself thru some personal exploration/development classes, anger management etc. If you can cope with the introspection. Many people cut & run, unable to take the Heat.

You may find how much they can improve all areas of your life.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Got to go!

Overseen the likes of Sandiland, etc...

too many times, Go now, & take the rest of the Board with you.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

My point is that our democratic system has become infested with aggressive narrow minded people who have they're own narrow set of agendas, & some beliefs. But these more aggressively spoken politicians pull the wings off the more placid but often more thoughtful & caring others, like most Scientists.

People often see the placid argument as weaker,,, as it has less conviction,, in the face of the aggressor's argumentation. But it is more about the thoughtful, being less willing to fight & argue, or stoop to a lower level.

They're own conscience works against they're fight for right... Aggression V Passivity...

Well at least we agree on that, although I wish it wasn't the case.

I'm not sure how prank calls are evidence of society's degeneration though. There are far worse things about our culture that I'd sooner remove than that. That's essentially my point - prank calls aren't that bad when compared with all the other issues we face.

Do youself a favour & put yourself thru some personal exploration/development classes, anger management etc. If you can cope with the introspection. Many people cut & run, unable to take the Heat.

You may find how much they can improve all areas of your life.

My life is fine, thanks for your concern. The last piece of official introspection I did was some very extensive personality profiling done as part of a job interview process. The results aligned almost exactly with the expectations I had laid out at the start of the day, which is something the assessor said was very rare. I'm very much ok with myself - I know who I am.

Unofficial and unstructured introspection takes place every morning in the shower - the best place for thinking about life .

I don't really have anything more to contribute that's actually on-topic so I might just shut up.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Well at least we agree on that, although I wish it wasn't the case.

I'm not sure how prank calls are evidence of society's degeneration though. There are far worse things about our culture that I'd sooner remove than that. That's essentially my point - prank calls aren't that bad when compared with all the other issues we face.

My life is fine, thanks for your concern. The last piece of official introspection I did was some very extensive personality profiling done as part of a job interview process. The results aligned almost exactly with the expectations I had laid out at the start of the day, which is something the assessor said was very rare. I'm very much ok with myself - I know who I am.

Unofficial and unstructured introspection takes place every morning in the shower - the best place for thinking about life .

I don't really have anything more to contribute that's actually on-topic so I might just shut up.

# a prank isn't the issue so much as the way it is done & how you care about & involve the butt of the Joke. While irt is an immature humour, it can be done with care & some consideration, & some Inclusiveness as against exclusion & derision.

# I'm glad you think your fine, &, a 1 day course & the backslap from an official giving out confidence is hardly fullon.

# Keep on with the mirror, but remember we don't realise/learn much until the wheels fall off a couple of times, & necessity steps up to the plate.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

Maybe not, but they are responsible for the Values & attitudes of the company & its executive officers etc. Who then hires the CEO? & other top executives?

This Issue needs to be made a major example of, as does the company. Maybe a ban from the airwaves for 6 months. They may prefer that then. Lose the licence for 6 months.

The crap shock jock routines, & the likes of sandilands & his bimboish partner in crime.

An organisation's culture (views, values and norms) is determined by a series of factors, in this instance and as I have said multiple times - is from the industry.

Your putting yourself on a very high moral horse but I think you have missed the motives of these dj's you have just looked at the result.

They did this so they can get ratings. It's a hyper-competitive industry and will always be hyper-competitive. As a result radio shows will constantly be trying to gain greater market share. Taking them off the air waves will not solve this issue - a leopard cannot change its spots.

The solution is to change the industry standards and regulations when it comes to pranks and interviews - increase the protection of the public.

Trying to make an example out of a company in an industry with low moral values in the first place isnt effective by any measure, and you wil just great grey areas (which can be argued as easily for or against) with no real deterent.

Your gun ho, axe the board, axe the dj's, take them off their air and moral high horse wouldn't solve anything. Change the laws and regulations, set it in stone.

You would make a great lynch mob leader.

[dee-luded 2,958]

An organisation's culture (views, values and norms) is determined by a series of factors, in this instance and as I have said multiple times - is from the industry.

Your putting yourself on a very high moral horse but I think you have missed the motives of these dj's you have just looked at the result.

They did this so they can get ratings. It's a hyper-competitive industry and will always be hyper-competitive. As a result radio shows will constantly be trying to gain greater market share. Taking them off the air waves will not solve this issue - a leopard cannot change its spots.

The solution is to change the industry standards and regulations when it comes to pranks and interviews - increase the protection of the public.

Trying to make an example out of a company in an industry with low moral values in the first place isnt effective by any measure, and you wil just great grey areas (which can be argued as easily for or against) with no real deterent.

Your gun ho, axe the board, axe the dj's, take them off their air and moral high horse wouldn't solve anything. Change the laws and regulations, set it in stone.

You would make a great lynch mob leader.

Does missing games stop players throwing cutlunches in the AFL. when was the last time you saw someone throw a haymaker?

the faceless men/people of the boards are the ones who need to learn the ways of recent past isn't OK.

and to make changes, they need to realise they are to be held accountable for the actions of they're companies.

Start at the top, where they feel out of reach, & work downhill from there.

# re the fight for ratings, this is where we differ, as you seem to think anything is OK under the guise of "It's work" & 'for the good of the company'. collateral damage can be insured against.

Well then, out of the industry is a good penalty then, to learn to change.

* ratings & competition isn't an excuse, & the realignng of values is critical,,, & creating a clean & level playing field from there.

[dee-luded 2,958]

An organisation's culture (views, values and norms) is determined by a series of factors, in this instance and as I have said multiple times - is from the industry.

-----------------------------------

Your gun ho, axe the board, axe the dj's, take them off their air and moral high horse wouldn't solve anything. Change the laws and regulations, set it in stone.

You would make a great lynch mob leader.

Gun Ho..... I put it to you that the aggressors are the Gun Ho, & merely matching & mirroring they're fighting ways to defend the good fight is necessary.

Never take a fly swatter to a knife fight.

[Bossdog 2,002]

It is a very tough world out there and so different to the one I grew up in.......Fights a settled with knives or a gang of 10 Vs one bloke......It is a world where a joke about muslims can cause riots and death in the streets around the world......Where jhads are carried out because of an insult......

Whilst I am very sympathic for the young woman who took her own life and her family and friends......I don't think the media people ever thought that they would get through to the Royal ward and the joke would have stopped there........

I don't know the state of mind of the young woman....but to think that the queen and Prince Phillip would ring personally and not have someone else enquire as to the welfare of a patient is at best naive......

I have been on the receiving end of bagging for some mistakes that I have made at work and in my private life......but have never contemplated taking my own life.......I think some perspective needs to be had here....

[PJ_12345 1,098]

Does missing games stop players throwing cutlunches in the AFL. when was the last time you saw someone throw a haymaker?

the faceless men/people of the boards are the ones who need to learn the ways of recent past isn't OK.

and to make changes, they need to realise they are to be held accountable for the actions of they're companies.

Start at the top, where they feel out of reach, & work downhill from there.

# re the fight for ratings, this is where we differ, as you seem to think anything is OK under the guise of "It's work" & 'for the good of the company'. collateral damage can be insured against.

Well then, out of the industry is a good penalty then, to learn to change.

* ratings & competition isn't an excuse, & the realignng of values is critical,,, & creating a clean & level playing field from there.

If you have followed any of my posts you would have seen that at no point have I agreed with their actions. You can even see this in my last post, I have not condoned their action and spoken very impartially and merely arguing on the point of how to stop this from occuring again. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Again you fail to see that a board's role is not to oversee the day to day activities of a company. You need to give credit where credit is due.

This would have been cleared by the producers - that is their role and responsibility.

Using your logic, if an elderly lady slipped over in a supermarket because an employee failed to put up a slippery area warning sign and died, not the employee, not the store supervisor, not the store manager, not the regional manager, not the state manager, but the board should be axed.

Persecute those to whole the responsibility was with, the dj's, the producers and the lawyers.

Change the industry standards and laws to protect the public's interests and rights, and stop it from happening again.

Be careful when you put yourself on such a high horse... your head can get in the clouds it hurts more when you fall of it.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

Gun Ho..... I put it to you that the aggressors are the Gun Ho, & merely matching & mirroring they're fighting ways to defend the good fight is necessary.

Never take a fly swatter to a knife fight.

My reference to you being gun ho is in regards to your solution to the issue. Replacing boards and banning companies do not solve the issue and is merely a band aid solution.

Your rushing into it, with a short-term lynch mob solution with no long-term perspective solution or deterrent.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

Back to the topic guys...

Sorry, got a bit side tracked... Dee-luded if you still want to argue pm me

[dee-luded 2,958]

If you have followed any of my posts you would have seen that at no point have I agreed with their actions. You can even see this in my last post, I have not condoned their action and spoken very impartially and merely arguing on the point of how to stop this from occuring again. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Again you fail to see that a board's role is not to oversee the day to day activities of a company. You need to give credit where credit is due.

This would have been cleared by the producers - that is their role and responsibility.

Using your logic, if an elderly lady slipped over in a supermarket because an employee failed to put up a slippery area warning sign and died, not the employee, not the store supervisor, not the store manager, not the regional manager, not the state manager, but the board should be axed.

Persecute those to whole the responsibility was with, the dj's, the producers and the lawyers.

Change the industry standards and laws to protect the public's interests and rights, and stop it from happening again.

Be careful when you put yourself on such a high horse... your head can get in the clouds it hurts more when you fall of it.

re the boards responsibilities, i think they have to be responsible for the actions of they're executives. And the culture of the company &* its ongoing behaviours.

This is to me critical as to having the top being responsible to encourage good governance.

This company has been at the forefront of numerous poor behaviours in recent years & needs to topple from the top down.

# the logic is if many elderly people & others at risk people were getting hurt on this workplace, and appropriate actions were not undertaken but the risks went on,,,,, then its time to sack the board.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Be careful when you put yourself on such a high horse... your head can get in the clouds it hurts more when you fall of it.

I don't put myself on a high horse as this would imply I think higher of myself than average, but I don't.

So if you think I'm on a high horse over this, you must think these issues are trivial. So you yourself must think theses poor values are OK.

I like to uphold the good Values I learnt when young & respect life.

I don't like aggression in life, only on the battlefield of AFL, as a game.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

re the boards responsibilities, i think they have to be responsible for the actions of they're executives. And the culture of the company &* its ongoing behaviours.

This is to me critical as to having the top being responsible to encourage good governance.

This company has been at the forefront of numerous poor behaviours in recent years & needs to topple from the top down.

# the logic is if many elderly people & others at risk people were getting hurt on this workplace, and appropriate actions were not undertaken but the risks went on,,,,, then its time to sack the board.

So your willing to let the people who ultimately made cleared the prank and whom the responsibility lay with get away whilst replacing the board in an industry with the same rules and regulations as before therefore offering no deterrent and not increasing the protection of the public... and so the cycle will continue.

Swallow your pride, your short-term solution of axe and temporarly ban wont work. I thought you would be pro my perspective of a long-term solution of tightening the industry's standards and increasing public interests/rights, whilst also axing the responsible parties (the board, the producers), which will ultimately fix the organisation's cultural issues.

I warned you about getting on such a high horse: you really are dee-luded.

Edit:

Definition for high horse:

Web definitions

an attitude of arrogant superiority; "get off your high horse and admit you are wrong".

wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Edited December 10, 2012 by PJ_12345

[old55 21,216]

What are we going to do? Make a law preventing prank calls? Sounds like a very slippery slope to me, and there are much larger issues society and lawmakers could be dealing with.

How about following this for a start off?

Except that, in this most unfortunate turn of events, a nurse, valued worker, wife and mother has died and we must all have confidence this never happens again. That confidence will only come with adherence to the ACMA Code of Practice.

It is not as difficult as one would imagine.

There is one part of the code I can see that covers such calls.

It's right there in ''Code of Practice 6: Interviews and Talkback Programs.''

It states … ''A licensee must not broadcast the words of an identifiable person unless:

a) That person has been informed in advance or a reasonable person would be aware that the words may be broadcast.

B) In the case of words which have been recorded without the knowledge of that person, that person has subsequently, but prior to the broadcast, expressed consent to the broadcast of their words.''

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/time-to-do-more-than-just-talk-about-radio-standards-20121209-2b3nk.html#ixzz2Ec6l50yV

[robbiefrom13 877]

"I'm not sure how prank calls are evidence of society's degeneration though", says Choke.

interesting point. Sidestepping with "just joking" is I think a bit like lying - you end up with no fixed points anywhere, no solid starting points for any serious thought. And society surely will degenerate if it abandons serious thought. When nothing is more than material for mockery and stupidity, and casualties are just bad luck, it's hard to see how anything serious can become the norm. Think of that comment the young Jack Watts made about losing, and how it took the wind out of our sails; serious damage it did to his reputation, at the time.

The "golden age of Athens" in the 5th Century BC came to an end at the same time as they stopped seriously questioning their public life. For almost a century the city had stopped for three days every year while the Drama Festival was held. Four plays a day, exploring the big issues of the day - three tragedies and one outrageous comedy. High point of all western civilisation, that 50 years in Athens in the middle of the 5th Century. When the city lost its taste for seriously examining what was going on it began to make bad mistakes, and in very short order ended the great flowering that had brought us democracy and many of the greatest achievements ever in architecture, literature, philosophy, science and so on. As the city rapidly declined, the drama festival was continued, but only with re-runs. Socrates went on questioning things, but he got arrested for it and was made to drink poison. Athens as history reveres it was finished.

Seriousness ensures there is life in society. Mindlessness takes up time and space, and you have to wonder if for just that reason it is far more costly than it appears to be. We can't afford to not be on our game. If you don't have a clear line around where the fun is, and retain proper respect for the important things that deserve our respect and deference, so that there is no doubt about their priority, then it has to be the slippery slope. With the radio prank and the variety of people's comments about it, we seem to have no bearings. Will we as a society ask the serious questions, and interrogate ourselves for what is revealed about our public life here? Athens at its peak most certainly would have.

I am like dee-luded I suspect - I have lived for a while to end up persuaded that the "old-fashioned" values are actually important; and I'd go so far as to say replacing them with smartarsery is a fundamental axe at the root of civilisation.

So there is my take on how shrugging about prank calls can be evidence of a culture on the way down... (Down, because we used to be and still could be higher.)

Edited December 10, 2012 by robbiefrom13

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

How about following this for a start off?

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/time-to-do-more-than-just-talk-about-radio-standards-20121209-2b3nk.html#ixzz2Ec6l50yV

Sorry, having read that 2Day FM's lawyers had signed off on the broadcast 2 days after the recording, I would have assumed that she would have given her permission. If this isn't the case, then obviously they are in a lot of poo.

I'm not sure how prank calls are evidence of society's degeneration though.

interesting point. Sidestepping with "just joking" is I think a bit like lying - you end up with no fixed points anywhere, no solid starting points for any serious thought. And society surely will degenerate if it abandons serious thought. When nothing is more than material for mockery and stupidity, and casualties are just bad luck, it's hard to see how anything serious can become the norm. Think of that comment the young Jack Watts made about losing, and how it took the wind out of our sails; serious damage it did to his reputation, at the time.

The "golden age of Athens" in the 5th Century BC came to an end at the same time as they stopped seriously questioning their public life. For almost a century the city had stopped for three days every year while the Drama Festival was held. Four plays a day, exploring the big issues of the day - three tragedies and one outrageous comedy. High point of all western civilisation that 50 years in Athens in the middle of the 5th Century. When the city lost its taste for seriously examining what was going on it began to make bad mistakes, and in very short order ended the great flowering that had brought us democracy and many of the greatest achievements ever in architecture, literature, philosophy, science and so on. As the city rapidly declined, the drama festival was continued, but only with re-runs. Socrates went on questioning things, but he got arrested for it and was made to drink poison. Athens as history reveres it was finished.

Seriousness ensures there is life in society. Mindlessness takes up time and space, and you have to wonder if for just that reason it is far more costly than it appears to be. We can't afford to not be on our game. I am like dee-luded I suspect - I have lived for a while to end up persuaded that the "old-fashioned" values are actually important; and I'd go so far as to say replacing them with smartarsery is a fundamental axe at the root of civilisation.

So there is my take on how shrugging about prank calls can be evidence of a culture on the way down... (Down, because we used to be and still could be higher.)

There's that long bow again.

Your argument only holds merit if prank calls are THE ONLY source of entertainment and political satire. That's obviously not the case. There are plenty of examples of good satire and criticism of government/society etc.

Try again please.

Also, "old-fashioned" does not necessarily mean better. Sometimes that is the case, sometimes it is not. You (or dee-luded, can't remember which), stated before about the need for society to change and put forward slavery as one example. Surely you wouldn't adhere to this "old-fashioned" idea?

Prank calls aren't taking the place of anything. They're not pushing aside some high minded political commentary. They're played on stations aimed largely at the youth market, where political commentary doesn't get any ratings and therefore wouldn't be played anyway. I would argue that there is more 'space' then there used to be with the advent of new technologies. Maybe 50 years ago when there were less radio stations, a prank call might take away time from something more important. But now, all you have to do is change the dial and very quickly you can find something else more 'valuable'.

Those crying out for significant societal change on the back on an UNSUBSTANTIATED LINK between prank calls and ONE death (a statistically insignificant amount) are making knee-jerk reactions that I think damage society in a far worse way.

[Biffen 12,298]

"I'm not sure how prank calls are evidence of society's degeneration though", says Choke.

interesting point. Sidestepping with "just joking" is I think a bit like lying - you end up with no fixed points anywhere, no solid starting points for any serious thought. And society surely will degenerate if it abandons serious thought. When nothing is more than material for mockery and stupidity, and casualties are just bad luck, it's hard to see how anything serious can become the norm. Think of that comment the young Jack Watts made about losing, and how it took the wind out of our sails; serious damage it did to his reputation, at the time.

The "golden age of Athens" in the 5th Century BC came to an end at the same time as they stopped seriously questioning their public life. For almost a century the city had stopped for three days every year while the Drama Festival was held. Four plays a day, exploring the big issues of the day - three tragedies and one outrageous comedy. High point of all western civilisation, that 50 years in Athens in the middle of the 5th Century. When the city lost its taste for seriously examining what was going on it began to make bad mistakes, and in very short order ended the great flowering that had brought us democracy and many of the greatest achievements ever in architecture, literature, philosophy, science and so on. As the city rapidly declined, the drama festival was continued, but only with re-runs. Socrates went on questioning things, but he got arrested for it and was made to drink poison. Athens as history reveres it was finished.

Seriousness ensures there is life in society. Mindlessness takes up time and space, and you have to wonder if for just that reason it is far more costly than it appears to be. We can't afford to not be on our game. If you don't have a clear line around where the fun is, and retain proper respect for the important things that deserve our respect and deference, so that there is no doubt about their priority, then it has to be the slippery slope. With the radio prank and the variety of people's comments about it, we seem to have no bearings. Will we as a society ask the serious questions, and interrogate ourselves for what is revealed about our public life here? Athens at its peak most certainly would have.

I am like dee-luded I suspect - I have lived for a while to end up persuaded that the "old-fashioned" values are actually important; and I'd go so far as to say replacing them with smartarsery is a fundamental axe at the root of civilisation.

So there is my take on how shrugging about prank calls can be evidence of a culture on the way down... (Down, because we used to be and still could be higher.)

The golden age of Athens was also a pedophiles Shangri-La.

I in no way endorse commercial radio .

I despise Austereo and Southern Cross (they may be the same organisation).

Their "comedians" are idiots .

Their have more ads than content .

If you want very good independent radio with no [censored] on it then go to RRR and PBS which are two of the best in the world ,right here in Melbourne .

MMM is the same as that Sydney drivel .Fat Eddy and his heavy humour .LMBB.

I must say on this Prank issue though-the nurse wwho took her own life MUST have had other issues or been an EXTREMELY sensitive person for that to push her over the edge .

I'm loving this thread by the way -it's going all over the place .

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

The golden age of Athens was also a pedophiles Shangri-La.

I in no way endorse commercial radio .

I despise Austereo and Southern Cross (they may be the same organisation).

Their "comedians" are idiots .

Their have more ads than content .

If you want very good independent radio with no [censored] on it then go to RRR and PBS which are two of the best in the world ,right here in Melbourne .

MMM is the same as that Sydney drivel .Fat Eddy and his heavy humour .LMBB.

I must say on this Prank issue though-the nurse wwho took her own life MUST have had other issues or been an EXTREMELY sensitive person for that to push her over the edge .

I'm loving this thread by the way -it's going all over the place .

Exactly. If you don't like it, don't listen. I certainly don't.

Blaming a prank call for this suicide is like blaming Marilyn Mansen for the Columbine shootings. Coincidence, nothing more. And those calling for large scale 'axeings' or legislation changes are just giving in to their knee-jerk reactions and prejudices.

"I don't approve of their comedy, which was seen in close proximity to a suicide, therefore their comedy caused this suicide. By extension, this will also cause the downfall of society," - this is complete folly and shows deep flaws in reasoning.

As I said, even if there was a causal relationship, one incident among thousands is hardly an appropriate sample size on which to base such drastic changes as has been advocated here. At best, you could propose an investigation to see if this has happened before in less visible circumstances. If that investigation showed that it had, and in statistically significant quantities, then I'll jump right on the "let's change the law" bandwagon. But I don't think we should make snap decisions without all the available evidence - and at the moment that evidence is looking real dicey.

I am happy to revisit if a causal relationship is established by the authorities.

I'm getting pretty tired of repeating myself.

If nothing else though, this thread has entertained Biffen. And in the end, isn't that the real aim of all of us here at Demonland?

[dee-luded 2,958]

So your willing to let the people who ultimately made cleared the prank and whom the responsibility lay with get away whilst replacing the board in an industry with the same rules and regulations as before therefore offering no deterrent and not increasing the protection of the public... and so the cycle will continue.

Swallow your pride, your short-term solution of axe and temporarly ban wont work. I thought you would be pro my perspective of a long-term solution of tightening the industry's standards and increasing public interests/rights, whilst also axing the responsible parties (the board, the producers), which will ultimately fix the organisation's cultural issues.

I warned you about getting on such a high horse: you really are dee-luded.

Edit:

Definition for high horse:

Web definitions

an attitude of arrogant superiority; "get off your high horse and admit you are wrong".

wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

swallow pride? so you think this is all about winning a debate??? We are on way different sets of Ideals. I don't care at all about winning a debate.

I care about regaining our countries values back, the good human value ones.

* on the Board again, you haven't read my posts as I've stated many times now, IMO the board must have picked they're executives & I can only guess, have stood behind them,, thru their many bad issues in recent years, re shock jock radio.

I said I think the board should be sacked, along with the executives & those who passed this issue to go ahead, after the Pre recording of the Prank.

The DJ's IMO, are down the list as pawns of the bigger game, only trying to make a career. Sadly some people will do anything for big money. The Jails are full of them.

But the DJ's need some penalty as well.

---------------

You've quoted something about arrogance, from a dictionary, suggesting I'm arrogant, & then you go on to call names. Your trying to what, hurt, by name calling, or something, & trying to be insulting?

Sorry, you've failed to get me to change my mind on this issue. I don't now if you idolise business people & Board members, but I don't put anyone up on high, including me.

And I don't put anyone down below the feet on the ground level, no one.

You see we're all born & all die equal. Life is all equal & precious.

[Biffen 12,298]

Exactly. If you don't like it, don't listen. I certainly don't.

Blaming a prank call for this suicide is like blaming Marilyn Mansen for the Columbine shootings. Coincidence, nothing more. And those calling for large scale 'axeings' or legislation changes are just giving in to their knee-jerk reactions and prejudices.

"I don't approve of their comedy, which was seen in close proximity to a suicide, therefore their comedy caused this suicide. By extension, this will also cause the downfall of society," - this is complete folly and shows deep flaws in reasoning.

As I said, even if there was a causal relationship, one incident among thousands is hardly an appropriate sample size on which to base such drastic changes as has been advocated here. At best, you could propose an investigation to see if this has happened before in less visible circumstances. If that investigation showed that it had, and in statistically significant quantities, then I'll jump right on the "let's change the law" bandwagon. But I don't think we should make snap decisions without all the available evidence - and at the moment that evidence is looking real dicey.

I am happy to revisit if a causal relationship is established by the authorities.

I'm getting pretty tired of repeating myself.

If nothing else though, this thread has entertained Biffen. And in the end, isn't that the real aim of all of us here at Demonland?

Make it legislation immediately please Nasher and Co.

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

Make it legislation immediately please Nasher and Co.