Richmond Dees

[monoccular 17,432]

Is this a Richmond Demons thread?

Ricky Petterd is an exDemon Tiger.

[TGR 1,367]

H,

Tuck and Jones are interesting...

I'd suspect selection committee would choose one of Tuck or Jones. Tuck has been on one-year deals for a while hasn't he; which means that no other club has been willing to give him 2 for while.

On the other hand...don't forget how bad we actually were in 2012. We can get too excited about Jones' year considering the carp he is referenced against.

Frawley? My goodness. The classic chook with his head cut off. No conviction with the ball. No sense of purpose. Wouldn't be in my starting merged side.

Steven Morris is unlucky not to get picked IMO; and that is where your side falls down. Who will get the gig on a Cyril Rioli/Stephen Milne? Morris is tough, courageous and semi-quick. His foot-skills aint as bad as the pundits think.

14/22 looks within reach; but Trent Cotchin is worth 2; so make it 15 in my book. I was questioned when calling him the best mid in the comp in June, but by Brownlow night, this didn't look as stupid. His workrate is upper-echelon; and what he does after giving off, should be benchmark at any club, professional or other. He either protects who he has just off-loaded to; or he runs to space to be an option.

Clark & Howe...no doubt. Would play in most teams.

I don't think Jack Riewoldt is a bonefide full-forward, if there is such a thing in modern footy.

Foley is as injury-prone as D.Grimes, so they might as well be both in...or both out.

Blease might be able to provide the speed that only the light Nahas can muster near goal. Blease would get a gig for me. That speed addition would allow me to drop Titch Edwards in favour for Watts who would do well getting less attention on the flank...and give you versatility. In your side, a lot of your backs and forwards can't be swapped to the other end of the ground. Watts gives you this ability.

I'm a Tapscott man; so he'd be my emergency.

In summary, I can't work out how Steven Morris doesn't get in; and how Frawley starts as your bookend.

As for coach?

Neeld? No.

Dimma? Probably.

As for the Malcolm Blight role as old mentor in the box, do we go with Swoop (played and coached Tigers; Coached Melbourne) or Wallet (barracked for the dees; and coached Richmond)?

Edited December 11, 2012 by Octavius Messala

[Bitter but optimistic 22,241]

For some of us it is the very bridge we live under.

Why ignore when you can hang around for deride.

Biffo, have you put yourself on your ignore list? You should consider this.

[Biffen 12,943]

Biffo, have you put yourself on your ignore list? You should consider this.

Would that make me a big man?

Like bigger than Ben Hur?

Ignoring is for the ignorant .

However,

Your suggestion is noted BBO.

[Biffen 12,943]

There are not many opinions I "rate" and it doesn't take long to work out the lightweights. If posters continually post stuff that my 12 year old would roll their eyes at then enough is enough. Or when I'm followed around like a puppy dog enough is enough.

I keep Biffen around as a lesson to my children.

Promise me son not do to do the things I done .

Walk away from trouble if you can.

[Tony Tea 2,809]

I assume the Tigers are the Bears, too.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

H,

Tuck and Jones are interesting...

I'd suspect selection committee would choose one of Tuck or Jones. Tuck has been on one-year deals for a while hasn't he; which means that no other club has been willing to give him 2 for while.

On the other hand...don't forget how bad we actually were in 2012. We can get too excited about Jones' year considering the carp he is referenced against.

Frawley? My goodness. The classic chook with his head cut off. No conviction with the ball. No sense of purpose. Wouldn't be in my starting merged side.

Steven Morris is unlucky not to get picked IMO; and that is where your side falls down. Who will get the gig on a Cyril Rioli/Stephen Milne? Morris is tough, courageous and semi-quick. His foot-skills aint as bad as the pundits think.

14/22 looks within reach; but Trent Cotchin is worth 2; so make it 15 in my book. I was questioned when calling him the best mid in the comp in June, but by Brownlow night, this didn't look as stupid. His workrate is upper-echelon; and what he does after giving off, should be benchmark at any club, professional or other. He either protects who he has just off-loaded to; or he runs to space to be an option.

Clark & Howe...no doubt. Would play in most teams.

I don't think Jack Riewoldt is a bonefide full-forward, if there is such a thing in modern footy.

Foley is as injury-prone as D.Grimes, so they might as well be both in...or both out.

Blease might be able to provide the speed that only the light Nahas can muster near goal. Blease would get a gig for me. That speed addition would allow me to drop Titch Edwards in favour for Watts who would do well getting less attention on the flank...and give you versatility. In your side, a lot of your backs and forwards can't be swapped to the other end of the ground. Watts gives you this ability.

I'm a Tapscott man; so he'd be my emergency.

In summary, I can't work out how Steven Morris doesn't get in; and how Frawley starts as your bookend.

As for coach?

Neeld? No.

Dimma? Probably.

As for the Malcolm Blight role as old mentor in the box, do we go with Swoop (played and coached Tigers; Coached Melbourne) or Wallet (barracked for the dees; and coached Richmond)?

What?

[Josh 1,420]

How long untill Viney is a walk up start? I am nearly wetting myself waiting to unleash this beast on the AFL. What are his odds for Rising Star? I'll take him to poll the most votes for Melbourne brownlow night

[Bitter but optimistic 22,241]

Would that make me a big man?

Like bigger than Ben Hur?

Ignoring is for the ignorant .

However,

Your suggestion is noted BBO.

Nothing is bigger than Ben Hur - we all realize this. However there is a bizzare appeal to ignoring yourself. What happens to your posts? Are they just little pearls floating around in the ether. Do those beautiful hurtful insults just drift away into mediocracy? It's sort of like playing with yourself. It deserves consideration.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

As for coach?

Neeld? No.

Dimma? Probably.

Terry Wallace?.....Yes

[old55 23,614]

I was questioned when calling him the best mid in the comp in June, but by Brownlow night, this didn't look as stupid.

Discovered Cotchin, fire and the colour blue - you've had a busy year!

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,814]

These are a few of the reasons I think we will have a 'good' year, I don't expect us to make finals, pleasant if we do, but we will improve

Rodan - out to prove he is not finished

Byrnes - ditto

Dawes - prove Collingwood wrong, has carte blanche to crash and bash

Viney

Jones

Toumpas

Frawley

Grimes full preseason again

The fierce competition for every spot

And I think you could also add:

Significantly improved fitness levels

Playing as a team instead of as individuals

Better understanding of the game plan

Added maturity to younger players like Watts, Tapscott, Strauss, Jetta, etc

[H_T 3,049]

An interesting read Ben and I think you're analysis of who would get into the best team is pretty spot on and my only real debating point would be Dawes v Vickery because Vickery is a far better ruckman than Dawes, but that is on the edges and pretty much moot (my other would be McKenzie v Jackson but who cares).

About 2 years ago posting as "Snoopy" I started the thread "It's the Midfield Stupid" after we were smashed by the Hawks in R2 and it started with the quote below:

The link to the tread is here: http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/25165-its-the-midfield-stupid/

My genuine footy education was started by Craig Cameron and I remember waxing lyrical about the depth we had at the club in about 2006 and suggesting this was where we had an advantage over the competition. He set me straight about the value of Stars v Depth, a point that I think pretty much everyone understands. The dominant midfield concept has been mine since I saw Sheldon, Marcou, Buckley, Catoggio and the other Carlton mids tear up oppositions in their era when it was generally thought that spines were the most important thing. Of course footy was different then but one of my regrets over the journey is our complete failure to recruit and develop any star mids, let alone develop a quality midfield.

When you look at your best side of these two clubs we have one mid in them. Our plight is highlighted by your placement of Grigg on a HFF for Richmond's team whereas he'd be close to our best mid.

My view is that Melbourne is like a donut. I think we are comfortably top 8 material down back and up forward (now that we've rebuilt our forward line) but we still have no midfield. In 2008 we picked up Strauss, Blease and Bennell and passed on Beams, Redden and Sloane which I think was the greatest failing of recruiting and list management we've seen for some years particularly as I know we rated Beams and Reddan highly. The following year we picked up Scully, Trengove and Gysberts as the "fix" for our midfield but of course history shows that as being a failure.

I think the FD has done a wonderful job with list management this year but unlike many who are anticipating a quick turnaround I think we are still quite a few years away. We probably still have the worst midfield in the competition and until that changes I think you'll be hearing "Yellow and Black" when we play Richmond for a few years yet.

Good post.

That said, don't you think "if" we had an advantage over the competition in terms of depth back in 2006, we would have fared better in the subsequent years that followed? In particular 2007-08?

[Hannibal 5,814]

H,

Tuck and Jones are interesting...

I'd suspect selection committee would choose one of Tuck or Jones. Tuck has been on one-year deals for a while hasn't he; which means that no other club has been willing to give him 2 for while.

On the other hand...don't forget how bad we actually were in 2012. We can get too excited about Jones' year considering the carp he is referenced against.

Frawley? My goodness. The classic chook with his head cut off. No conviction with the ball. No sense of purpose. Wouldn't be in my starting merged side.

You undersell Frawley my old friend. While he hasn't recaptured his form of 2010 he still is excellent at negating the oppositions key forward. Taylor Walker was the only forward who really got hold of him. His closing speed and ability to work forwards towards the boundary is very good. Jack Riewoldt rates him highly and if he was a free agent he'd be in huge demand. He'll only get better.

I think you're missing the point of my merged side. It was based on form in 2012 and not what I envisage going forward and not chosen to play an actual game. It was just a reference point to show how we'd slipped below a fellow cellar dwellar and a team that has no right to be ahead of us. Bailey, Prendergast, et al put this club back 5 years.

I note that David King has come out and said that the Tiges are a good bet for a top 4 berth this year. He really does say some silly things. But that's why I started the thread. Richmond are the flavour of the month and we were meant to be better quicker. They are one gun mid ahead of us in pure talent. A cohesive Melbourne side in 2013 can definitely give them a run for their money. I genuinely think we'll surprise many next year.

[Sir Why You Little 37,049]

Jon Ralph's article on the Back of the HUN.

Richmond should make Top 4 next year...David King.

2 mental heavyweights there...

That is what Brisbane expected in 2010

But of course Ricky Petterd will make all the difference..

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Jon Ralph's article on the Back of the HUN.

Richmond should make Top 4 next year...David King.

2 mental heavyweights there...

That is what Brisbane expected in 2010

But of course Ricky Petterd will make all the difference..

Top 4 might be a push but as aonther poster said, if they dont make top 8 then the year is a waste for them. And it could be a matter of a game or two and/or % that does it.

[Biffen 12,943]

Ricky was good for us at times and was thrown to the wolves as a kid.

He left the club without bad-mouthing us or having any hard feelings.

He had some big injury problems and when he is right I hope he kicks ass for them (except against us naturally).

Good on Ricky for keeping his respect in tact for the Dees and himself and getting another go.

There are not many spots left for mid size forwards.

I hope he can get 150 games in his career.

[Sir Why You Little 37,049]

Top 4 might be a push but as aonther poster said, if they dont make top 8 then the year is a waste for them. And it could be a matter of a game or two and/or % that does it.

yes but the article was about the possibility of making Top 4, as if the Top 8 is a certainty.

As always i hope Richmond finish 9th winning a few late in the year.

Let us not forget that the GC Suns have beaten them twice thus far.

Their Backbone is way to Flaky for Top 4.

But round 1 is always a good laugh.

[old55 23,614]

They are one gun mid ahead of us in pure talent.

Two ahead unless you rate Jones equal to either Cotchin or Deledio, and two ahead is the length of the Flemington straight.

[beelzebub 23,380]

may 19 looms as a real test . Going to be interesting

[Hannibal 5,814]

Two ahead unless you rate Jones equal to either Cotchin or Deledio, and two ahead is the length of the Flemington straight.

I don't rate Deledio as a gun contested ball winning mid. He had a very good year, but is more outside.

Richmond were [censored] when Deledio was winning back to back B&F's. Cotchin has taken that team to a new level and it's no coincidence that it happened during his break out year. I reckon his year was responsible for the team winning an extra 5 games. It's a bit like when Judd went to Carlton and they went from winning 4 to 10. I know it's not down to one player, but a gun leads the cumulative effect.

We'll quickly be able to match Deledio with a guy like Toumpas, but getting someone to Cotchin's level is a whole new story - with no guarantee. I don't rate Deledio a "gun" mid. I rate him an A grade mid, or a "gun" half back, but not a "gun" mid.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,241]

I don't rate Deledio as a gun contested ball winning mid. He had a very good year, but is more outside.

Richmond were [censored] when Deledio was winning back to back B&F's. Cotchin has taken that team to a new level and it's no coincidence that it happened during his break out year. I reckon his year was responsible for the team winning an extra 5 games. It's a bit like when Judd went to Carlton and they went from winning 4 to 10. I know it's not down to one player, but a gun leads the cumulative effect.

We'll quickly be able to match Deledio with a guy like Toumpas, but getting someone to Cotchin's level is a whole new story - with no guarantee. I don't rate Deledio a "gun" mid. I rate him an A grade mid, or a "gun" half back, but not a "gun" mid.

I think you're asking a bit much of Toumpas to "quickly" match anyone. I know he has played SANFL but he is only a kid.

[H_T 3,049]

Two ahead unless you rate Jones equal to either Cotchin or Deledio, and two ahead is the length of the Flemington straight.

I know the output from Dustin Martin in 2012 was inconsistent, but by reports he has responded well to Choco Williams.

A focussed, consistent and improved Dustin Martin is more damaging than Deledio IMO. Which would rate higher than Jones and give you the length of the Flemington straight.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I think you're asking a bit much of Toumpas to "quickly" match anyone. I know he has played SANFL but he is only a kid.

No I'm not. I reckon by his second year Toumpas will produce similar results. Toumpas plays the entire 2014 season as a 20 year old.

I think it's reasonable to suggest that Toumpas will be of similar quality to Andrew Gaff, who was also chosen at pick 4. Gaff has just completed his second year, albeit in a good side, averaged 24.6 disposals and had the 7th most kicks in the league.

I know we're used to disappointment as Melbourne fans, but Viney and Toumpas are elite talents that I believe will very quickly start making their mark.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,241]

Hope you're right!