Poor kicks are hurting us

[Prof 15]

How many players at Melbourne are really good kicks? Not many.

How many are below average? Heaps.

This continues to be a major issue. I was watching the Swans playing last Sunday and noticed how virtually every player can spot up a player without any problems.

Many aspects of a young player's game can be developed but very few players improve their kicking significantly.

Look at our list:

Jones: above average

Bartram: poor

Watts: very good

Gysberts: below average

Bate: above average

Bennell: below average

Frawley: below average

Trengove: average

Morton: below average

Clark: above average

Sylvia: very good

McKenzie: below average

Dunn: average

Petterd: poor

Grimes: poor

Blease: very good

Green: above average

Strauss: above average

Garland: average

Moloney: below average

Jurrah: very good

McDonald: below average

Nicholson: average

Rivers: average

MacDonald: below average

Sellar: average

Martin: below average

Tapscott: above average

Davey: above average

Howe: average

Jetta: below average

Jamar: poor

Spencer: shocking

Bail: below average

Fitzpatrick: shocking

Magner: shocking

It's a worry!

[BIG JIM 508]

I also think this is just because the new footy deparment has come in and put all there eggs in one basket (fitness)

I think we will see alot of improvment next year when the club spends more time on this over the pre season.

They have a big job turning around this club over the next 2 years.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,380]

How many players at Melbourne are really good kicks? Not many.

How many are below average? Heaps.

This continues to be a major issue. I was watching the Swans playing last Sunday and noticed how virtually every player can spot up a player without any problems.

Many aspects of a young player's game can be developed but very few players improve their kicking significantly.

Look at our list:

Jones: above average

Bartram: poor

Watts: very good

Gysberts: below average

Bate: above average

Bennell: below average

Frawley: below average

Trengove: average

Morton: below average

Clark: above average

Sylvia: very good

McKenzie: below average

Dunn: average

Petterd: poor

Grimes: poor

Blease: very good

Green: above average

Strauss: above average

Garland: average

Moloney: below average

Jurrah: very good

McDonald: below average

Nicholson: average

Rivers: average

MacDonald: below average

Sellar: average

Martin: below average

Tapscott: above average

Davey: above average

Howe: average

Jetta: below average

Jamar: poor

Spencer: shocking

Bail: below average

Fitzpatrick: shocking

Magner: shocking

It's a worry!

Are these your thoughts or based on some statistical records such as disposal efficiency?

[binman 37,712]

Agree with the ratings on the whole Prof. One comment is you have Jones rated as above average, which is fair. But he used to be a terrible kick, both in terms of accuracy and depth, and has improved this part of his game enormously.

Whilst i agree that players often struggles to improve their kicking (because their technique has been honed since Auskick, similar to tennis payers and golfers who struggle to change flaws as a pro) Jones at least provides an example it is possible.

Edited July 17, 2012 by binman

[DemonWA 3,421]

Nathan Jones has improved his kicking over the years, so maybe you can teach players to improve their kicking?

[DemonWA 3,421]

Agree with the ratings on the whole Prof. One comment is you have Jones rated as above average, which is fair. But he used to be a terrible kick, both in terms of accuracy and depth, and has improved this part of his game enormously.

Whilst i agree that players often struggles to improve their kicking (because their technique has been honed since Auskick, similar to tennis payers and golfers who struggle to change flaws as a pro) Jones at least provides an example it is possible.

Crazy, pretty much summed up what i was thinking before i posted!

[nutbean 8,837]

Are these your thoughts or based on some statistical records such as disposal efficiency?

I dont disagree with most of his assessments.

I hate stats for disposal efficiency as it can be misleading.

I love Barty's G&D but maintain his kicking will kill will when you need it the most.

He misses target you simply must hit.McKenzie is always getting scrappy kicks in the congestion so his efficiency is always down as he rarely gets in the clear.

[Ouch! 2,034]

Before reading further, I am not denying that we have players that have issues with their disposal skills, but it needs to be put into context.

It's chicken and egg.... Good teams know the game plan instinctively, appear to have more time to execute skills, and move the ball a lot quicker as a result. You could replace Sydney with West Coast, Collingwood, Adelaide and Hawthorn. In the case of the MFC, they don't know the gameplan and even a fraction of hesitation makes your skills appear poor, the team looks slow etc... result = turnovers.

Perhaps a good example would be feedback from someone like KC from Casey or someone else that watches our players at Casey.... reasoning for this is.... when they are playing in the VFL for Casey (who are at the top of the ladder) are these players as poor with their disposal execution as their appear when playing for Melbourne? or are they "obviously too good for this level" type of thing.

We will turn over players on our list as we attempt to climb the ladder. However as we climb, I can guarantee some of these players (who are rated poor or average) will suddenly appear to be a lot better with their disposal...going against your assertion that they won't get better.

[McQueen 17,862]

Confidence and knowledge of game structures will remedy a lot of this.

We will be a different side next year.

[rjay 23,839]

Many aspects of a young player's game can be developed but very few players improve their kicking significantly.

Think Jobe Watson and the Eagles list for a start. The eagles when they were down in 2010 were considered a terrible kicking list, pretty much the same list, what happened? they got better.

A lot of kicking problems come from other issues not the act of kicking.

[Moonshadow 16,099]

How many players at Melbourne are really good kicks? Not many.

How many are below average? Heaps.

This continues to be a major issue. I was watching the Swans playing last Sunday and noticed how virtually every player can spot up a player without any problems.

Many aspects of a young player's game can be developed but very few players improve their kicking significantly.

Look at our list:

Jones: above average

Bartram: poor

Watts: very good

Gysberts: below average

Bate: above average

Bennell: below average

Frawley: below average

Trengove: average

Morton: below average

Clark: above average

Sylvia: very good

McKenzie: below average

Dunn: average

Petterd: poor

Grimes: poor

Blease: very good

Green: above average

Strauss: above average

Garland: average

Moloney: below average

Jurrah: very good

McDonald: below average

Nicholson: average

Rivers: average

MacDonald: below average

Sellar: average

Martin: below average

Tapscott: above average

Davey: above average

Howe: average

Jetta: below average

Jamar: poor

Spencer: shocking

Bail: below average

Fitzpatrick: shocking

Magner: shocking

It's a worry!

And just what are you trying to put forward?

Nothing new here.

Yeah, we all know our kicking efficiency is not good.

Tell us something we don't know, Blind Freddy.

[Hardnut 327]

One question is whether kicking and handballing skills are a significant part of training, and if not, then why not? Good skills are one of the most essential parts of the game for a team at any level in the competition - they can also compensate (at least temporarily) for other deficiencies, such as lack of pace or fitness.

[Scipio 5,868]

Kicking skills should be an important consideration in this draft, especially in the later picks where the 'gun' players aren't obvious. Also on the trade table, which is why I think Goddard would be a pretty good acquisition.

[stuie 7,374]

Poor threads are hurting us...

[Sir Why You Little 34,402]

Tell me something i don't know!!!

[Bring Back Barassi 532]

MacDonald and McDonald are both shocking, not below average

[Bang Bang Bang 5,429]

I know he's nearly finished as an AFL player but Davey's left foot is much, much better than "above average". It's a bullet. Just doesn't get it enough nowadays.

I also think you are selling Green, Trengove, Gysberts, Tapscott and Strauss short.

Agree with the sentiment (and most of the other ratings) though.. Morton is the most disappointing for mine. Was drafted as a skinny "outside" utility but his kicking skills were meant to be elite.. they are not. They are below average. When you're an outside player with limited kicking skills, well, you're f***ed!!

Edited July 17, 2012 by Sylvia Saint

[jnrmac 18,913]

I know he's nearly finished as an AFL player but Davey's left foot is much, much better than "above average". It's a bullet. Just doesn't get it enough nowadays.

Who cares about Davey's kicking skills when he only hangs around the back of Jamar and 'dinks' a kick 15m sideways. We need an 80m ball carrier who can deliver into our fwd line. Davey has never done that.

[Sir Why You Little 34,402]

Who cares about Davey's kicking skills when he only hangs around the back of Jamar and 'dinks' a kick 15m sideways. We need an 80m ball carrier who can deliver into our fwd line. Davey has never done that.

Good point.

[Watts Jurrah Dunn? 735]

On the topic of kicking, could someone tell me why an AFL side would have James Frawley take the kick in and James Strauss standing 5 meters away getting ready to shepherd the man on the mark?

Amateur hour.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Our players try to be "too cute", and it's very frustrating.

Twice within the first 90 seconds of Saturday's game, Trengove had the ball in the backline, and elected to with his non-preferred left foot. Both times, the ball didn't hit its target. I said to my wife that we will get flogged today if that's the mentality the Captain brings. I understand that sometimes you have to kick on your non-preferred, I have no issue with that, and it's good to see players that can do it. What I have an issue with is that both times, Trengove was trotting out of the backline, with an opponenet on his inside blocking his ability to kick with his right foot (potential smother). sure, the easy answer is kick with your left, but that's what I'm about, it's the easy alternative. Trengove had ample opportunity to have a 3or 4 metre burst to get past that opponent (working his angles), so that he had time to steady and kick with his preferred foot. It takes 2 seconds of hard work - on one hand increases the chance of being caught with it (although on this occasion the opposition were far enough away to get around), but on the other hand, it gets him on his preferred right foot and actually hit a target.

There seems to be a little group of players that think that their wrong foot is as strong as their right foot - Grimes, Trengove, Morton and Watts are all guilty.

Before some of you carry on, I just ask you to watch this week's game, or even the first 90 seconds of last week's game. You will see what I'm talking about and how accurate I am. It's not an opinion, it's fact!!!

[The heart beats true 16,002]

On the topic of kicking, could someone tell me why an AFL side would have James Frawley take the kick in and James Strauss standing 5 meters away getting ready to shepherd the man on the mark?

It's a structural thing. I think Chipper takes the kick outs against teams that play deep with a marking target (Pavlich). I also think with Watts out he's the default.

The longer Strauss is in the side the more he can take that role.

[The heart beats true 16,002]

Trengove had ample opportunity to have a 3or 4 metre burst to get past that opponent (working his angles), so that he had time to steady and kick with his preferred foot.

I think the problem with JT is that he's not capable of a burst run. He's painfully slow and looks to have lost his ability to step up a gear when needed.

I hear you on the list of players that don't hit targets though. Grimes is having a really bad year with kicking, but I know he'll get better.

[jnrmac 18,913]

I think the problem with JT is that he's not capable of a burst run. He's painfully slow and looks to have lost his ability to step up a gear when needed.

I hear you on the list of players that don't hit targets though. Grimes is having a really bad year with kicking, but I know he'll get better.

The really good players get the ball and sprint 3-5 metres as a minimum before dishing off. Ours by and large don't (other than maybe Blease). We handball consistently to stationary targets 2-4m away (and often stuff that up). Players need the confidence to take the game on and they don't yet have it.

[Moonshadow 16,099]

The really good players get the ball and sprint 3-5 metres as a minimum before dishing off. Ours by and large don't (other than maybe Blease). We handball consistently to stationary targets 2-4m away (and often stuff that up). Players need the confidence to take the game on and they don't yet have it.

And the reciever of a handball has a higher risk level than a kick, in that the receiver of a handball can be tackled.

That is why you will find clubs like the Hawks and Pies chip the ball around so deftly by foot.

And then we handball to a stationary team mate who gets pinged...