AFL overhauls father-son bidding

[H_T 2,941]

Article in the Age by Emma Quayle on latest developments. The AFL will be putting in a new format in place this year.

AFL overhauls father-son bidding

[Fork 'em 6,507]

Making the rules up as they go along again.

The sooner the Fat controllers gone the better.

[olisik 4,060]

I dont understand what has changed here. Does this mean that teams who finish above us on the ladder can bid for Viney and still force us to use our first round pick on him?

[BIG JIM 508]

When is the fat man going to come out and tell GWS if they bid on a F/S just to screw a club that's already lost a priorty pick is draft tampering.

I'm sure the MFC would be warned if the shoe was on the other foot FAT MAN.

[Akum 2,660]

You can just about guarantee that whatever changes they make, it will force us to use our first-round pick for Viney. For example, it will make it so that GWS or GC will only have to bid their second-round pick (which will come before our second-round pick, even though it's in the same round) in order to force us to use our first-round.

Seems to me that the c**p they copped over certain aspects of our game against GWS have really rattled them - which would explain the amount of sooking about the banners.

We fanned the fire by saying that we only have an MOU, not a binding contract, with JV, and that if GWS & GC bid their first-round pick, we could call them on it and force them to take him with it or look stupid. Vlad will want to stamp out that possibility, without of course damaging the power clubs - Pies, Dons, Blues & Hawks. So he'll have to find a way of forcing us to use our first-rounder on Viney, while letting Bombers off the hook with Daniher.

[rpfc 27,436]

When is the fat man going to come out and tell GWS if they bid on a F/S just to screw a club that's already lost a priorty pick is draft tampering.

I'm sure the MFC would be warned if the shoe was on the other foot FAT MAN.

What if Viney is the best player in the draft or the second best?

What will you say then?

Watch Viney tomorrow and tell me why he isn't worthy of said title.

[old55 21,271]

It's just closing a loop-hole so that all players are available to be nominated at each pick instead of going through the picks with each individual player.

What it stops for example is if Stewart was the first player to be considered, we could commit pick 3 to him and if Collingwood didn't match that with their first rounder then our pick 3 would be committed, then when Viney came up next, GWS nominates him with pick 1 and we say we'll use our next available pick which is R2, pick 25 because we've already committed 3 on Stewart.

In the new scenario both Stewart and Viney (and everyone else) are eligible to be picked by GWS at pick 1 so when GWS nominates Viney we have to use pick 3 on him.

You can substitute Daniher for Viney in Essendon's case and their 1st rounder for ours - that's the example the article uses and is probably much more realistic because Stewart could be valued somewhere near Essendon's 1st pick.

It prevents clubs with nominated F/S burning their 1st round pick on another club's F/S - it's analogous to stopping the old chestnut/furphy "let's trade our 1st rounder so we can get Viney in the 2nd round" (what's the bet someone suggests that in this thread btw?)

It really is fairer - it's a good change.

[rpfc 27,436]

It's just closing a loop-hole so that all players are available to be nominated at each pick instead of going through the picks with each individual player.

What it stops for example is if Stewart was the first player to be considered, we could commit pick 3 to him and if Collingwood didn't match that with their first rounder then our pick 3 would be committed, then when Viney came up next, GWS nominates him with pick 1 and we say we'll use our next available pick which is R2, pick 25 because we've already committed 3 on Stewart.

In the new scenario both Stewart and Viney (and everyone else) are eligible to be picked by GWS at pick 1 so when GWS nominates Viney we have to use pick 3 on him.

Yeah, that does add value to the process.

[hardtack 10,126]

You can just about guarantee that whatever changes they make, it will force us to use our first-round pick for Viney. For example, it will make it so that GWS or GC will only have to bid their second-round pick (which will come before our second-round pick, even though it's in the same round) in order to force us to use our first-round.

Seems to me that the c**p they copped over certain aspects of our game against GWS have really rattled them - which would explain the amount of sooking about the banners.

We fanned the fire by saying that we only have an MOU, not a binding contract, with JV, and that if GWS & GC bid their first-round pick, we could call them on it and force them to take him with it or look stupid. Vlad will want to stamp out that possibility, without of course damaging the power clubs - Pies, Dons, Blues & Hawks. So he'll have to find a way of forcing us to use our first-rounder on Viney, while letting Bombers off the hook with Daniher.

Yes, the AFL is doing this just to upset our apple cart at the MFC.(where's the <rolls eyes> emoticon when you need it? )

[BIG JIM 508]

What if Viney is the best player in the draft or the second best?

What will you say then?

Watch Viney tomorrow and tell me why he isn't worthy of said title.

Dont tell me you think GWS think viney is Pick 1 or 2 these bastards just want the MFC to pay overs.

Viney is a top 5 to 10 pick.

He is coming to us no matter what so GWS are just trying to screw the MFC even more.

Dont forget they allready took our priorty pick.

And as for your question on what will i say then? Something like this GO F**K YOURSELF Kevin and i hope your club fail's.

They are not getting a thing out of bidding on viney other then F***ing with the club i love.

What else would you like to hear from a passionate MFC member.Cheers

[Friday 71]

they're upsetting essendons apple cart as far as i can see!

more of it i say!

[rpfc 27,436]

Dont tell me you think GWS think viney is Pick 1 or 2 these bastards just want the MFC to pay overs.

Viney is a top 5 to 10 pick.

He is coming to us no matter what so GWS are just trying to screw the MFC even more.

Dont forget they allready took our priorty pick.

And as for your question on what will i say then? Something like this GO F**K YOURSELF Kevin and i hope your club fail's.

They are not getting a thing out of bidding on viney other then F***ing with the club i love.

What else would you like to hear from a passionate MFC member.Cheers

'Screw us even more'....

FCS, people! Get over the GWS poaching HWFUA!

As a corrupt politician from Montana in the US once said "I never bought anyone who wasn't for sale."

They are there, and they hold some cards, and so do we. We would like Viney in the second round, the kind of result that the F/S rules were changed to avoid a club claiming such a ridiculously discounted talent.

So get over it people.

Boo the kid, hate the fatso, shake your heads at the AFL, but realise that we are trying to do what is best for the MFC.

[olisik 4,060]

I highly doubt GWS will be out to get us, its a professional sporting team with a bigger goal then screwing over the MFC for a bit of boo-ing.

I do love a bit of conspiracy but this one is just a bit far fetched.

I honestly don't think GWS and GC will bid. If you weigh up the pros and cons of the risk, it wouldn't be worth the risk unless you were happy to pass up on Whitfield for Viney.

[old dee 22,848]

'Screw us even more'....

FCS, people! Get over the GWS poaching HWFUA!

As a corrupt politician from Montana in the US once said "I never bought anyone who wasn't for sale."

They are there, and they hold some cards, and so do we. We would like Viney in the second round, the kind of result that the F/S rules were changed to avoid a club claiming such a ridiculously discounted talent.

So get over it people.

Boo the kid, hate the fatso, shake your heads at the AFL, but realise that we are trying to do what is best for the MFC.

I agree rpfc the paranoia amongst dees fans is ridiculous.

The only thing wrong with the Scully deal is the way him and his family went about it.

I firmly believe that the AFL is not trying to screw Melbourne.

They will do all they can to help GWS AND GCS

I actually think the Dogs got worse treament than us.

But whatever lets get on with winning games and improving the MFC.

Edited June 28, 2012 by old dee

[Fork 'em 6,507]

I highly doubt GWS will be out to get us, its a professional sporting team with a bigger goal then screwing over the MFC for a bit of boo-ing.

I do love a bit of conspiracy but this one is just a bit far fetched.

Remember it goes abit further back than abit of booing.

Sheedy feels slighted that we overlooked him for the coaching position.

One of the reasons he wanted to stitch us getting Scully.

Cost 'em 6million to do it tho'.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

The paranoia and conspiracy theories bandied around here in regards to the AFL or the media are just ridiculous. For christ's sake, the change was minimal and will have no effect on whether we use a 1st or 2nd rounder on Viney.

[Nasher 33,047]

I realise this is nitpicking, but just on the title of the Age's article: the AFL haven't really "overhauled" the bidding process, they've tweaked it slightly to add an extra layer of reasonability. Jeez I hate headlines designed to make people panic.

[Fork 'em 6,507]

The paranoia and conspiracy theories bandied around here in regards to the AFL or the media are just ridiculous.

Why ?

Demetriou has done absolutely nothing to make me think other wise.

Started with Judds Visy deal to give Carlton a leg up and has continued from there with the draw and now his new babies GWS and GC.

If the shoe was on the other foot and GWS or the Suns could manipulate the draft to suit themselves he'd give 'em the all clear and praise them for being creative.

[Born to Run 204]

The fact is that whatever happens, MFC may be the first club to have to genuninely over pay for a player (vs their real market value at draft time - and I do admit true market value is a bit of a joke considering the lottery aspect required in recruiting). This is why it is bollocks. If MFC have to over pay by one pick, the FS rule is not working. It is as simple as that. The FS rule was not concieved to make clubs pay a premium for continuing a family legacy / dynasty. It was there so that clubs could foster some sort of history and romance for supporters of yesteryear. I agree that a player who is the best in the country should not be able to go for a 2nd round pick (as was the case previously) but to make it a penalty to those clubs is sad.

The only way its going to be ruined is if people dummy bid, which by all accounts there is a good chance of.

I would suspect, if GWS and GC were completely legit, they would admit that they dont have a requirement for more midfielders as they have a plethora of them already. They would probably also admit that JV is somewhere around picks 3-8 which would mean they should not bid picks 1 or two for him.

Thus MFC should get him with a second rounder.

How ever you carve this up - its probably not right that we get him with a second rounder but on the same hand its not right we have to pay pick 3 for him if he is the 5th best player in the pool of talent.

[old dee 22,848]

Why ?

Demetriou has done absolutely nothing to make me think other wise.

Started with Judds Visy deal to give Carlton a leg up and has continued from there with the draw and now his new babies GWS and GC.

If the shoe was on the other foot and GWS or the Suns could manipulate the draft to suit themselves he'd give 'em the all clear and praise them for being creative.

That is not true Fork em

He made GWS put dad scully in their salary cap.

If my memory is correct the AFL said it would a salary cap breach if they did not.

[Ouch! 2,034]

I know that the Big footy Phantom Drafts are not the best indicators out there, but there appears to be a bit of comment suggesting that for the gold coast IF they land the number 1 pick again this year that Viney would be the inside mid that they need, but Whitfield is the best mid in the draft. It depends how much you read into people's comments on Bigfooty, but there appears to be a lot of people trying to convince themselves that Viney is a late first round pick and that we are being ripped off having to pay Pick3 for him.

Almost every opinion of Jack Viney I have seen from talent scouts/recruiters etc seem to indicate he is the type of player that could play AFL as a 17 yr old and that he is the hardest and most physical player to come through the system in a very very long time.

To get on topic, the changes aren't going to affect us one bit. Don't worry too much about GWS being the club to nominate Viney. I suspect that the Suns could legitimately (on a needs basis... rather than best player available) could nominate Jack.

Clubs above us on the ladder won't nominate unless they are prepared to take Viney, if thats the case, then he is 'worth' that pick. If Melbourne does not chose to take him, they don't believe he is worth it. It's as simple as that. You can't afford to play games unless you are prepared to lose from it, and with the top 3 picks, you can't be that stupid regardless of what Sheedy says.

[rhaz 342]

How ever you carve this up - its probably not right that we get him with a second rounder but on the same hand its not right we have to pay pick 3 for him if he is the 5th best player in the pool of talent.

But we're allowed to have Viney train with our club - using our facilities and coaches, learning the inners workings and play with our VFL team. People consistently undervalue this. I read a quote recently (might've been posted here) from one of Viney's coaches saying that he is already looking 'AFL-level' slimmer than his peers - and attributed it directly to being able to train and work with MFC.

[Harcourt 146]

That is not true Fork em

He made GWS put dad scully in their salary cap.

If my memory is correct the AFL said it would a salary cap breach if they did not.

Correct old dee but only after a journo produced the evidence and the game was clearly up.

[Ouch! 2,034]

The fact is that whatever happens, MFC may be the first club to have to genuninely over pay for a player (vs their real market value at draft time - and I do admit true market value is a bit of a joke considering the lottery aspect required in recruiting).  This is why it is bollocks.  If MFC have to over pay by one pick, the FS rule is not working.  It is as simple as that.  The FS rule was not concieved to make clubs pay a premium for continuing a family legacy / dynasty.  It was there so that clubs could foster some sort of history and romance for supporters of yesteryear.  I agree that a player who is the best in the country should not be able to go for a 2nd round pick (as was the case previously) but to make it a penalty to those clubs is sad.

The only way its going to be ruined is if people dummy bid, which by all accounts there is a good chance of.

I would suspect, if GWS and GC were completely legit, they would admit that they dont have a requirement for more midfielders as they have a plethora of them already.  They would probably also admit that JV is somewhere around picks 3-8 which would mean they should not bid picks 1 or two for him.  

Thus MFC should get him with a second rounder.

How ever you carve this up - its probably not right that we get him with a second rounder but on the same hand its not right we have to pay pick 3 for him if he is the 5th best player in the pool of talent. 

So you really believe that GC or GWS would jeopardise getting the best picks that THEY need just to force the MFC to take Viney? You also then believe that Melbourne would pick him regardless of his worth....

As said above by other posters, it's paranoia gone mad. It looks like Viney is being rated by a lot of people as a top 5 pick.... the only way we are going to get shafted is if he isn't rated as a top 10 pick AND GWS or GC attempt to bluff us into taking him for more than he is worth. But it could easily backfire and we say No, and they have to take him... missing out on the true talent. Then who looks stupid?

It's so much easier if you 'Assume' that Viney is worth a top 5 pick which seems to be the case at the moment.... at the worst we have to pay basically what he is worth...

[H_T 2,941]

I realise this is nitpicking, but just on the title of the Age's article: the AFL haven't really "overhauled" the bidding process, they've tweaked it slightly to add an extra layer of reasonability. Jeez I hate headlines designed to make people panic.

Agree. I was going to put in "tweak" for this thread, but I wanted to hold them to account.