We Need to Rebuild the midfield Again!!!

[Dee1987 277]

We will finish in the bottom 3. I/ we all are sick of it but, another high pick in a strong draft this year is desperatley needed. Today we saw how good Cotchin, Martin, Delidio and Foley are. When those blokes fire for Richmond so do they.

Our guys like Moloney, Magner, Bate, Mckenzie, Bail, Jones are ok we have heaps of them, but we desperatley need 3 top line superstar mids with a bit of Amazing about them ( 3 Dustin Martins).

Jack Viney has poetential to be that but we need 3 ready to go blokes.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,423]

I dont agree that Dustin Martin is a top liner - at least yet.

Moloney has had some good seasons but he is a little slow at times as with Jones. Bate isnt a midfielder or shouldnt be played as one, Bail is just a list filler, Magner is doing ok but is probably more a reflection of where the rest are at in a way. Gysberts will be a star, mark my words. But our midfield has never been the same after we lost Scott Thompson and Brucey's good season.

[Jerry Lundergard 420]

I dont agree that Dustin Martin is a top liner - at least yet.

Moloney has had some good seasons but he is a little slow at times as with Jones. Bate isnt a midfielder or shouldnt be played as one, Bail is just a list filler, Magner is doing ok but is probably more a reflection of where the rest are at in a way. Gysberts will be a star, mark my words. But our midfield has never been the same after we lost Scott Thompson and Brucey's good season.

Dusty is better than any player we have on our list at present, so if he is not a top liner, then that pretty much sums up our squad.

[Dee1987 277]

Are u kidding once he gets a bit more consistencey he will be a gun. He has speed loves to kick a goal, gives other players the dont argue. Agreed with Moloney and Jones they are tough but a little slow. Gysberts and Blease live in my area see them out a fair bit drinking and having the life, but from what i gather from others that know these blokes Nelld hasn't been impressed with their attitudes!!

[Friday 71]

I'm not sure i understand what Jamar does when he gets his hand on the football. Does he hit it for the sake of hitting it?

34 hit outs vs 24 to maric (who, lets get serious, had a mullet and is a dead set spud)

yet they smashed us in clearances

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I'd love to know how many Melbourne players watched the Carlton game on Friday night. I'd then love to ask them why they can't work as hard as Carlton do.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,423]

Dusty is better than any player we have on our list at present, so if he is not a top liner, then that pretty much sums up our squad.

Exactly my point. And saying that Dusty isnt a top liner now does not exclude the obvious indication that he will be from his current potential.

[Guest José Mourinho]

AGAIN?

We haven't finished rebuilding it yet.

Gysberts, McKenzie and Trengove are coming along, but are still very young and developing.

You can probably add Blease and Tapscott to that, as they are mids at a push.

They need time, and we need a few more.

Moloney, Sylvia and Davey were never going to be the cornerstones of a competitive midfield.

Bate is a poor excuse for a midfielder.

Jones is a shining light.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,423]

Not sure about Tappscott, Blease doesnt seem that committed to the Demons. Trengove and Gysberts should be stars. Mckenzie had a good season last year but I havent seen enough yet to make me confident. And Bate isnt a midfielder or shouldnt be.

Sylvia should have been a star and Davey has had some great seasons for the Dees.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,423]

Gysberts and Blease live in my area see them out a fair bit drinking and having the life, but from what i gather from others that know these blokes Nelld hasn't been impressed with their attitudes!!

Ive heard this about the later

[DemonOX 8,701]

As i have said before u dont need talent to chase, defend and go hard at the ball.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Davey

Morton

Blease

Strauss

Bennell

Some these players are supposed to be our line breakers, the skilled quick types that we are desperately lacking due to a lack of form, injury or stalled development.

As well as a bonafide class midfielder.

[Guest José Mourinho]

Not sure about Tappscott, Blease doesnt seem that committed to the Demons. Trengove and Gysberts should be stars. Mckenzie had a good season last year but I havent seen enough yet to make me confident. And Bate isnt a midfielder or shouldnt be.

Sylvia should have been a star and Davey has had some great seasons for the Dees.

If that's the case, he's not that committed to being an AFL player fullstop.

I think he's quite immature young Bleasey, but that doesn't mean he won't come along.

Has anyone got any idea when he is out of contract?

[drdrake 3,124]

Lets look at the players we drafted from 2007 early picks

2007

Morton playing HBF

Grimes Playing HBF

Maric Gone

2008

Watts Playing wing drafted as a tall forward

Blease Casey un fit can't play midfield

Strauss Defender injured

2009

Scully Gone

Trengove going OK

Gysberts Always Injured

Tapscott always injured

2010

All Talls

2011

No Early picks

so from the above we have 1 midfielder that we have drafted over the past 5 years that is fit and walk up starter in our midfield. So the "again" part of this topic is incorrect we haven't addressed this issue.

[dazzledavey36 52,884]

thats the first i have heard about blease and gysberts being the party animals that they are apperently are? you would think you would be giving yourself every chance to become a better footballer by doing extra training instead of hitting the [censored] all the time..

[Dee-licious 1,947]

Just from the fantasy drafts if it all goes terribly Viney will be joined by 2 of

#1 GWS- Lachie Whitfield (VIC - Mid)

Height: 185cm, Weight: 75kg, DOB: 18/07/1994

Recruited from: Dandenong Stingrays

Style: Ben Cousins

Player comparison:

Range: 1-3

Profile: The thing that makes Whitfield stand out is his work rate, he just never stops running and absolutely works his man into the ground consistently. Whitfield has absolutely crazy endurance and as a 17 year old makes mince meat of the beep test, can score 16 which for an AFL prospect is in the very top percentile. The other thing is his skill level by foot. Perfect left footer. Just that class above and always looks composed with ball in hand and is that class above. Has a real natural evasiveness and can pretty easily avoid tackles. Strong mark overhead on the lead and around the field. Speed good but not elite. Could add some more kicking penetration, probably only has a 40-45m kick on him at this stage but if he can add 10-15m onto that kick it will only increase his hurt factor. Also will need to eventually develop that inside game to go with his outside game which at this stage means he will likely jump into an outside role or perhaps off a back flank. Hopefully we’ll see some signs of a developing inside game season. Physically Whitfield has developed well over the past few years which suggest he still has allot of physical development ahead.

Why:

#2 Port Adelaide- Nick Vlastuin (VIC - Mid)

Height: 186cm, Weight: 83kg, DOB: 19/04/1994

Recruited from: Northern Knights

Style: Nathan Buckley (less athletic)

Player comparison:

Range: 2-15

Profile: Midfielder who consistently wins the contested footy and just consistently goes harder than the next player. Skill level is exceptional, uses it well by both hand and foot and rarely makes mistakes. Particularly stands out by foot. Has also been noted for leadership and really leads by example out on the field so there is allot to like. Consistently plays to a high level. Athletically not as good as other likely high end midfield choices but is still a hard runner who will work all day and demonstrates great endurance and work rate. Looks like a very low risk, solid pro who is worthy of a high draft position.

Why:

#3 Gold Coast- Jimmy Toumpas (SA – Mid)

Height: 183cm, Weight: 74kg, DOB: 02/01/1994

Recruited from: Woodville West Torrens

Style:

Player comparison: Chad Wingard

Range: 2-15

Profile: Really damaging player with some versatility. Reminds me allot of Chad Wingard. Skill level excellent by both hand and foot, has that combination of hurt factor and clean ball use that will make him a big time weapon. Consistently good decision maker. Good athlete and has that combination of speed and agility. Also has shown very early on that he can lift for the big games which is I strongly believe is something that he will take with him to AFL level. Can play as a midfielder or a forward at that stage but I like Toumpas most as an outside mid/forward at this stage because he still physically needs to develop and continue to work on that inside game.

Why:

[rjay 24,615]

Just from the fantasy drafts if it all goes terribly Viney will be joined by 2 of

#1 GWS- Lachie Whitfield (VIC - Mid)

Height: 185cm, Weight: 75kg, DOB: 18/07/1994

Recruited from: Dandenong Stingrays

Style: Ben Cousins

Player comparison:

Range: 1-3

Profile: The thing that makes Whitfield stand out is his work rate, he just never stops running and absolutely works his man into the ground consistently. Whitfield has absolutely crazy endurance and as a 17 year old makes mince meat of the beep test, can score 16 which for an AFL prospect is in the very top percentile. The other thing is his skill level by foot. Perfect left footer. Just that class above and always looks composed with ball in hand and is that class above. Has a real natural evasiveness and can pretty easily avoid tackles. Strong mark overhead on the lead and around the field. Speed good but not elite. Could add some more kicking penetration, probably only has a 40-45m kick on him at this stage but if he can add 10-15m onto that kick it will only increase his hurt factor. Also will need to eventually develop that inside game to go with his outside game which at this stage means he will likely jump into an outside role or perhaps off a back flank. Hopefully we’ll see some signs of a developing inside game season. Physically Whitfield has developed well over the past few years which suggest he still has allot of physical development ahead.

Why:

#2 Port Adelaide- Nick Vlastuin (VIC - Mid)

Height: 186cm, Weight: 83kg, DOB: 19/04/1994

Recruited from: Northern Knights

Style: Nathan Buckley (less athletic)

Player comparison:

Range: 2-15

Profile: Midfielder who consistently wins the contested footy and just consistently goes harder than the next player. Skill level is exceptional, uses it well by both hand and foot and rarely makes mistakes. Particularly stands out by foot. Has also been noted for leadership and really leads by example out on the field so there is allot to like. Consistently plays to a high level. Athletically not as good as other likely high end midfield choices but is still a hard runner who will work all day and demonstrates great endurance and work rate. Looks like a very low risk, solid pro who is worthy of a high draft position.

Why:

#3 Gold Coast- Jimmy Toumpas (SA – Mid)

Height: 183cm, Weight: 74kg, DOB: 02/01/1994

Recruited from: Woodville West Torrens

Style:

Player comparison: Chad Wingard

Range: 2-15

Profile: Really damaging player with some versatility. Reminds me allot of Chad Wingard. Skill level excellent by both hand and foot, has that combination of hurt factor and clean ball use that will make him a big time weapon. Consistently good decision maker. Good athlete and has that combination of speed and agility. Also has shown very early on that he can lift for the big games which is I strongly believe is something that he will take with him to AFL level. Can play as a midfielder or a forward at that stage but I like Toumpas most as an outside mid/forward at this stage because he still physically needs to develop and continue to work on that inside game.

Why:

It's interesting that Toumpas has jumped up in the rankings, he played a serious part in the senior SANFL premiership last season as a 17yo.

Mathew Haynes is another one we should be interested in, good kick, very quick.

[jnrmac 19,905]

Not sure about Tappscott, Blease doesnt seem that committed to the Demons. Trengove and Gysberts should be stars. Mckenzie had a good season last year but I havent seen enough yet to make me confident. And Bate isnt a midfielder or shouldnt be.

Sylvia should have been a star and Davey has had some great seasons for the Dees.

Where do you dream this stuff up? One hand on the keyboard one elsewhere.

[DeeSpencer 24,784]

Where do you dream this stuff up? One hand on the keyboard one elsewhere.

I agree it's a long bow.

But when a guy is losing to big Leigh Williams in the repeat 400m runs in preseason you have to ask are they seriously giving it their all. That said I think not playing him at half back is a mistake, but what he really needs to do now is to become a star VFL midfielder, when he does that he'll get back in the senior team and make an impact.

[Akum 2,660]

We will finish in the bottom 3. I/ we all are sick of it but, another high pick in a strong draft this year is desperatley needed. Today we saw how good Cotchin, Martin, Delidio and Foley are.

Thought we saw the difference between a midfield playing as a team and a midfield playing as individuals.

These aren't the guys who were usually at the bottom of packs - that was their inside mids like Tuck, Morris, Edwards, Conca. The mids you mention - Cotchin, Foley, Martin & Deledio - are outside mids, the breakaways from the edges of the packs, who receive the ball in tight from the inside mids & work it between themselves to break away from the packs.

Our mids - Jones Magner, McKenzie, Moloney when he's in - are expected to both get it at the base of the pack and also to do something with it, either try to break away (which is why Jones gets caught) or get rid of it in a hurry (which is why Magner's DE is down, why Jordie has so many handballs, and why Moloney bombs). We simply lack the structure that the top midfields do.

Interestingly, none of Cotchin, Foley, Martin & Deledio are that good defensively against their direct opponents, but in their midfield structure, they don't need to be. But they work as a team-within-a-team to protect space on the edge of the packs, to stop their opposition mids from breaking away.

Our outside-mids equivalents to Cotchin etc aren't Jones, Magner & so on, but Trengove, perhaps Grimes, perhaps Tapscott, Gysberts when he's not injured, Sylvia ditto, perhaps even Blease & Davey. They are more creative, more capable of being playmakers. But our current game plan bypasses these outside mids, which is why they can't get into the game. And one reason why our uncontested possessions are almost non-existent.

Since 186 there has not been a single game where the side has played as a team for more than a few minutes in bursts. And our midfield is almost unique in having no structure whatsoever. They're things I expected Neeld to bring with him from where he came from, but maybe that's stage 2 or stage 3 or ... maybe it's not.

The expression "outside mid" almost seems like a term of abuse at the moment.

[baysidedave 246]

apart from a couple we've recruited crap over the last 5years, we need to start again but not with Prendergast

Edited April 14, 2012 by baysidedave

[Dee1987 277]

Gysberts isnt committed enough atm. If u look at all the top teams they at least have 3 superstar ball winners

Carlton- Judd, Gibbs and Murphy

Collingwood- Ball, Pendlebury and Swan

Hawthorn- Mitchell, Sewell and Hodge

West Coast- Priddis, Kerr and Embley. We sure as hell dont have that.

[Theo 272]

Thought we saw the difference between a midfield playing as a team and a midfield playing as individuals.

These aren't the guys who were usually at the bottom of packs - that was their inside mids like Tuck, Morris, Edwards, Conca. The mids you mention - Cotchin, Foley, Martin & Deledio - are outside mids, the breakaways from the edges of the packs, who receive the ball in tight from the inside mids & work it between themselves to break away from the packs.

Our mids - Jones Magner, McKenzie, Moloney when he's in - are expected to both get it at the base of the pack and also to do something with it, either try to break away (which is why Jones gets caught) or get rid of it in a hurry (which is why Magner's DE is down, why Jordie has so many handballs, and why Moloney bombs). We simply lack the structure that the top midfields do.

Interestingly, none of Cotchin, Foley, Martin & Deledio are that good defensively against their direct opponents, but in their midfield structure, they don't need to be. But they work as a team-within-a-team to protect space on the edge of the packs, to stop their opposition mids from breaking away.

Our outside-mids equivalents to Cotchin etc aren't Jones, Magner & so on, but Trengove, perhaps Grimes, perhaps Tapscott, Gysberts when he's not injured, Sylvia ditto, perhaps even Blease & Davey. They are more creative, more capable of being playmakers. But our current game plan bypasses these outside mids, which is why they can't get into the game. And one reason why our uncontested possessions are almost non-existent.

Since 186 there has not been a single game where the side has played as a team for more than a few minutes in bursts. And our midfield is almost unique in having no structure whatsoever. They're things I expected Neeld to bring with him from where he came from, but maybe that's stage 2 or stage 3 or ... maybe it's not.

The expression "outside mid" almost seems like a term of abuse at the moment.

Very good post. Well thought out and does make sense. There is certainly confusion amongst our players there is no cohesion and willingness to run, carry and spread. Too many players seem afraid to make the play and instead turn it over with errant handballs. to players that are already covered.

In regard to Blease I attended pre-season training every week leading up to the NAB Cup and have heard similar things about him. Unless his attitude improves he could well be trade bait. Let's hope he matures and puts the work in.

[Redleg 40,219]

Every time they flipped the ball out to Foley that was it. He was off and no one got near him and often a goal resulted. We are too slow in the midfield and it has killed us in every game so far. Then when we need to defend our mids don't, except Jones and there is no run created out of the backline.

It also seems that every game we refuse to man up on a player who is loose or kiliing us, yesterday Grigg and against Lions, Black. I can't remember who it was against Eagles but I think it could have been Shuey.

[3031 11]

Thoughtful, mature posts with insight Akum and Theo. Very refreshing to read.

We need to stick with the club and Neeld and co. right now. Neeld is an very intelligent coach and as he showed in the presser, he sees the critical importance of supporters in our plans and efforts to achieve success. We should feel chuffed that he sees us as an important part of the overall scene, plan and culture. He is showing an insight into the bigger picture of what a successful football club involves.

In a way he is challenging us just as he is the players..to show resilience, hang in there despite disappointment, and to support each other and the players. Supporters can have a big effect on the playing group..and Neeld has recognised this..and his challenge for us is to look to the longer term and support through the tough times.

Edited April 15, 2012 by 3031