DERAILED

[H_T 3,043]

I don't think that the game plan is crap. We got slaughtered in the centre of the ground. Last year we would compesate by playing a man back and winning the ball of half back. Now we do that late, if at all. This exposes a midfield that cannto win its own ball. The old plan worked well if we did win the midfield or if we could sweep effectively. Neeld's plan forces us to win the footy and then use it well. Where we cannot, we will look terrible. Truth is, patching over these flaws is a fool's renovation that we be found out - as it was over and over - against hard teams. Our mids are too slow and lack poise and clean skills. If the engine room breaks down, you haven't got much to play with.

One positive was the contested marking. now THAT is gold in finals. WE have players who can do taht. Watts was the best I have seen hin in this department. Now all we need are three mids. Maybe Blease and gysberts and viney...we just need three.

We need a lot more than those three.

[Pennant St Dee 13,173]

They may have trouble finding the heart to have the heart to heart. Once again totally out-thought, out ran, out smarted and out of heart.

Even in the dark depths of the 1970s and the 2007-10 era have I actually felt so absolutely sad about where our club is heading.

So very few to actually appear want to play for the club. Far too many seem to just want to run around and get a kick if it is easy, but to never lend a hand or offer an option.

So we can talk about recruiting maybe we should change the recruiting interviews and screening to look beyond talent and identify kids who will work their arses off, play hard, accountable honest footy,

[Striker475 696]

Just as an addendum, my father said to me on the train home that when Melbourne win a flag, he's going to buy a case of Penfold's Grange and we'll drink it until we're sick of it. Said I'm holding him to it, he replied he doesn't think he'll be alive to see it happen...he's 53.

[bjDee 1,249]

2 things:

The 3rd qtr was just like watching a game of keepings off. So many times a centre clearance came out to a Tiger player on their defensive side of the ruck, who had one or two options running forward at 45 degrees and away they went. When we say it's our midfield that stinks, (to me) it's not the entire midfield. It's the tap ruckman who starts the rot. Once the ball comes to ground (from an MFC ruckman) at the feet of an opponent rather than down the throat of our players, we have lost all advantage and none of our small midfielders had a chance to catch them. The Russian had his colours well and truly lowered today.

On today's showing, Morton has improved. But he is still a putz. Granted, he is a better putz than he was, but it doesn't look like he will graduate out of putzville in the forseeable future. Time for us to cut the ties and find a better project to work on.

[Chook 15,013]

2 things:

The 3rd qtr was just like watching a game of keepings off. So many times a centre clearance came out to a Tiger player on their defensive side of the ruck, who had one or two options running forward at 45 degrees and away they went. When we say it's our midfield that stinks, (to me) it's not the entire midfield. It's the tap ruckman who starts the rot. Once the ball comes to ground (from an MFC ruckman) at the feet of an opponent rather than down the throat of our players, we have lost all advantage and none of our small midfielders had a chance to catch them. The Russian had his colours well and truly lowered today.

On today's showing, Morton has improved. But he is still a putz. Granted, he is a better putz than he was, but it doesn't look like he will graduate out of putzville in the forseeable future. Time for us to cut the ties and find a better project to work on.

Agreed. Mark Jamar might win taps, but he seems to have no idea where he's hitting them. Worse, it seems our opponents have a better idea than we do where they're going, and consequently they often take the ball out of stoppages with ease.

[QueenC 74]

Just as an addendum, my father said to me on the train home that when Melbourne win a flag, he's going to buy a case of Penfold's Grange and we'll drink it until we're sick of it. Said I'm holding him to it, he replied he doesn't think he'll be alive to see it happen...he's 53.

I'm about to hit 30 (& dealing with it quite well atm), have poor health, and even I've had my doubts about whether I'll ever see one......

My dad in his mid-60's says he has his doubts too .

I hope, wish, and pray that we are proven wrong and they eventually do us proud!!!

[dee-luded 2,959]

When looking at our list Baliey couldnt develop a player for shite. His softly, softly approach was crap. He mothered the players too much and we are paying for it now.

The players need to harden up. You dont need to be talented to chase, defend and be hard at the ball.

Theres been an attitude since the late late '90's, where we were seemingly above that stuff. chasing? tackling? smothering? for the birds.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I'm about to hit 30 (& dealing with it quite well atm), have poor health, and even I've had my doubts about whether I'll ever see one......

My dad in his mid-60's says he has his doubts too .

I hope, wish, and pray that we are proven wrong and they eventually do us proud!!!

I wish you luck QC...

[dee-luded 2,959]

Just as an addendum, my father said to me on the train home that when Melbourne win a flag, he's going to buy a case of Penfold's Grange and we'll drink it until we're sick of it. Said I'm holding him to it, he replied he doesn't think he'll be alive to see it happen...he's 53.

Tell him he's nightmaring...

[jnrmac 20,060]

Morton was ok for his first game back. He provides a very good ability to creat space for himself. Something this team needs alot more of

You are dreaming. Morton did not go near his man all afternoon. He ran where the ball wasn't all day. His dropped mark caused a direct goal. His turnovers were abominable. He is too scared to go near a contest.

[Scoop Junior 3,471]

The thing that gets me at the moment is the lack of tackling. Our players just don't tackle.

Tackling is something everyone can do - it doesn't require any natural gifts like pace or footy smarts and it doesn't require any special skills or experience.

Our tackle count is extremely low every game and I wouldn't be surprised if it was the lowest in the league.

I don't know the cause - it is a lack of application by the players? Are they not chasing? Are they too slow to catch the opposition? Are they focusing too much on filling their spots in the zone / structure rather than on applying direct defensive pressure?

Possibly a combination of all the above but it's just disheartening to continually see your team fail to tackle. We have been diabolical in so many aspects of the game so far this year, but you would have thought that at least the players would go out there, lay some tackles and put some proper pressure on the opposition.

No wonder the opposition get 100 more uncontested possessions every week. It's pretty easy to string together chains of uncontested possessions when you don't tackle or put sufficient pressure on.

The third quarter today - wow. Circle work. 9 goals to 1 - that's 186 pace. Against Richmond too. Shameful.

[BIG JIM 508]

We are the new fitzroy and im worried

[Retrospective 104]

No this is a player problem...Mark Neeld has been around some good strong teams....The players are at fault here.

He's been around a top side at this level, didn't lead it....No doubt the players are not providing much support but Neeld can't escape scott free..... he is paid to get this side up and competitive. They are not. It's his job to fix it....

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

He's been around a top side at this level, didn't lead it....No doubt the players are not providing much support but Neeld can't escape scott free..... he is paid to get this side up and competitive. They are not. It's his job to fix it....

Correct. But our list is well paid. Our coaches do not run on the park. Time some responsibility was put onto the players. Jimma would be ashamed today. FFS we played Richmond.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,048]

No it was MacKenzie and better still, he wound up with the free

You sure it was him? I swear I saw him get thrown down off the ball for the free.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,048]

The thing that gets me at the moment is the lack of tackling. Our players just don't tackle.

Tackling is something everyone can do - it doesn't require any natural gifts like pace or footy smarts and it doesn't require any special skills or experience.

Our tackle count is extremely low every game and I wouldn't be surprised if it was the lowest in the league.

It's not lack of tackling attempts, its a lack of ability to stick them. I lost count of the number of times I saw Richmond players take the tackle, pull their arms and the ball free and calmly hand off to a running teammate. Other teams seem able to tackle so the player can't make an effective disposal. Why is it that none of our players are able to do it?

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I just don't understand how we stopped dead in the third quarter. The players would have received a major rev-up at half time based on previous third quarter efforts. Richmond stroll through with 9 goals and zero resistance. How does every player (excluding Jones from memory) stop dead like that. Soul-destroying stuff

We chased tail for the first 2 quarters and by half time i reckon most of our players had played a full game, that's why we were stuffed at half time. Have a look at the game and you'll see that they were moving the ball by hand and we were then forced to run and chase players that we had given a 5 to 10 metre start to.

This didn't happen just once or twice but over and over again, I don't care how fit you are if you have to sprint 20 to 30 times a quarter it will take its toll on you. At one stage Mitch Clark chased a player from deep in our forward line to the opposition 50 metre line.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

You sure it was him? I swear I saw him get thrown down off the ball for the free.

Correct, Maric hit him on the chin, off the ball and the umpire up the ground saw it and ran in from the middle to pay the free.

[Retrospective 104]

WAIT - where the hell have all these supporters been for the last 5 years??

Is it NEWS that we aren't a good side?

Were they out of the country when we got FLOGGED by West Coast last week?

What the hell changes in a week that makes all these damn "supporters" forget where we are as a club, leading to another bloody outpouring of intense defeatist outrage?

HTFU and/or wake up

Webjet.

Where were we for the last 5 years?

I was sitting at the Punt Road end suffering through another round of the 5 year rebuild to success.

What changes in a week?

7 days ago we were belted in Perth by a "slick" Eagles side that is a genuine contender for the top four.

This week we played at the MCG against a side that is ordinary by all estimation, but which has shared our recent lows. And we didn't just lose......WE WERE FLOGGED.

I know we've been less than stellar for the last 5 years... I am gutted at the realisation from yesterday that I think we are in a worse position than we were when we started the rebuild.

HTFU or wake up

Well that's about perspective cobber.... harden up for me means not accepting all the blue sky bright side storytelling .

[Ned 156]

Very interesting game to watch.

I've noticed that a lot of people in various threads are praising our backline. I find this astounding. They were shocking today. Reiwoldt beat Frawley for the first time ever, Miller pantsed us and we leaked goals from the loose ball all day. There were a few moments where I seriously thought the whole unit should have offered to resign in shame. It was only Richmond's shocking set shot kicking that made the figures look a little better for them.

Looking past Richmond's poor set shots, we kept them in the game with some amazing judgement errors in the midfield. It could have been a very different story if only a few of those mistakes hadn't happened. Bail deciding that he should handball to Jones rather than kicking forward himself. Jamar passing behind the man and directly to an open Richmond player. Morton chucking a wobbly and letting D. Grimes have a free takeaway ball for the rebound. Clark playing on from a mark 10m from the goalmouth and getting nailed in the tackle. So many of these little moments could have gone our way with just a little more presence of mind and/or effort and turned the game so we were ahead at half time. IF that had happened, who knows how Q3 would have gone?

I did find a lot to be happy with, oddly enough.

Watts gave a good showing in the first half, although he faded. Took some good contested grabs and got involved.

Morton was good until the above little tantrum which seemed to flip the switch for him and shut down his football ability. Took a very good pressure mark early and got hit from behind for his trouble. If only he could do that all the time instead of the odd occasion.

Clark provided the highlight for the season thus far when he stoop like a colossus, throwing tacklers aside before breaking free, stepping another tackle and giving Sellar the easiest goal he will ever see.

Davey is improving and really seemed to get into the groove as the small defensive forward. I still saw a couple of nothing short kicks, but babysteps I guess.

Jones is a machine. The odd judgement error aside he was once again a pillar of strength in the middle.

Howe was brilliant.

Our midfield held it's own without Magner getting involved so much. For a half.

Good post. The Clark moment was superb. He was clearly ready for battle in the third quarter. I really think once the game began to turn he should've gone to the ruck. He wanted to do some damage and should've been given the opportunity.

[Mydee 288]

Yesterday we had all the "talent" Richmond could play football though,

[BIG JIM 508]

Case in point this sort of pathetic put-down towards our own club.

WTF have you been?

Why wallow in your own pathetic despair here?

Do you think other people want to hear it? Or that it's funny or clever?

I go every week to watch my team and you think i care what you think idiot. You are pathetic we have no heart as a team and i will keep going you turd licker

[Mydee 288]

We may be 0-9 looking at the games coming up

Can Neeld continue with this game plan & continue to get smashed every week? Does he need to adjust it to match the skills of the players?

Who will turn up as our supporter base is fickle. This will affect gate takings & finances of the club

All I saw today was kicking to the boundary to 1vs 2 & the turnovers were shocking! Whats happened to our coast to coast play we were doing last year?

Im not calling for Neelds head but 3 games in we r looking to get smashed every week!

Bad generals always fight wars using the previous war's battle tactics. The Somme, the maginot line and assymetric warfare are good example. So it is with football coaches- the crush, mosquito fleets, pagan's paddock have all been fashionable at some stage.. Perhaps Neeld;s game plan has been overtaken by events.

[dee-luded 2,959]

We chased tail for the first 2 quarters and by half time i reckon most of our players had played a full game, that's why we were stuffed at half time. Have a look at the game and you'll see that they were moving the ball by hand and we were then forced to run and chase players that we had given a 5 to 10 metre start to.

This didn't happen just once or twice but over and over again, I don't care how fit you are if you have to sprint 20 to 30 times a quarter it will take its toll on you. At one stage Mitch Clark chased a player from deep in our forward line to the opposition 50 metre line.

Thats is a difference to us yesterday & Carlton Friday, the blues arrived quickly with great closing speed on the opposition ball carrier, to harass & make them cough it up thru poor disposal. We were slow getting to the ball carrier, didn't anticipate well enough, and were there after the ball left.

[jimcor 212]

It's still far too early to make any sort of judgement about the game plan. I clearly remember the DL consensus under Bailey was that, if we had a game plan, it didn't work and the coaching staff had no idea how to respond. Clearly, Neeld does know about a game plan that works - it helped C'wood win a premiership. What we seem to lack is players with the required skills to be competitive. This doesn't mean they can't be taught, it just takes time before that judgement can be made.

There definitely were some positives that I saw:

- Clark tried all day and could easily have had another 5 bag

- Howe & Watts competed well in the air. Watts has a great football brain & his use of the ball is a stand out

- I suspect that I'll be abused but I thought that Rivers & Frawley did a pretty good job all day under trying circumstances

- Jones has become a real highlight. For many years, I thought he was well over-rated however I was wrong. he's still young and learning but already he is becoming a potential game-changer

Believe it or not, like most saw, there were a fair few negatives:

- After half-time, the mids were absolutely smashed. Jamar disappointed again but the mids did not seem to know how to get near the ball during stoppages. How does that happen? I don't understand.

- Garland was a weak link at the back. He threw a bit of a tanty when he kicked out poorly to Bate and it was intercepted by a Tige. The kick was the problem, not Bate. It needs to go on the chest, not overhead. Poor skill, poor attitude.

For the rest, sure, some things didn't happen but, as I said earlier, it's still too early. Bailey had a lot of seasons to create a platform from which to go forward and he didn't do it. Neeld hasn't taken over a cohesive team/squad, he's got us - something less than cohesive.