We Need Answers

[Mitch11 0]

I know we all have been talking about the past couple of weeks about whats wrong and how have we come to this.

I've taken time to sit back and actually think about whats wrong with this football club.

Myself as been a member for the last 20 years along with the rest of you deserve to get answers on some questions.

I know much has been made about how Melbourne treated there older players in the 2008-2011 period, but I just cant help think that this has really left a huge gapping hole in our football club. BUT these players:

James McDonald, Cameron Bruce, Russel Robertson and Brad Miller 3 of which are at other clubs would have set the standard for our young players on how hard you have to work, how hard you have to train and learn and teach them how to become a AFL footballer. While they might not have been in the best 22 even their presence around the club wouldnt go astray.

You look at our draft choices since the last "REBUILDING PHASE" and we have time and time again wasted good picks. Morton, Watts, Blease, Strauss, Gysberts, Maric, Bennell, Jetta, Cheney. Add in players such as Bate & Dunn who have gone backwards since they started. There is a real culture problem at Melbourne and it seems young players come into this club and they start out alright and then soon realise that their so called role models: Moloney, Sylvia, Rivers, Davey, Jamar, dont work hard so why should they. There is no'one at this club as a player to set a standard, yes Neeld has come in to change things but you learn off your peers, and players at Melbourne have no'one to learn off.

This club told us back in 2008 that we were in it for the long haul and we would draft and rebuild. We were patient and I have been until the last 12 months, 4 years on and this club is just as bad as they were in 2008. All I want is for this club to come up with some answers as to why 5 years in a rebuild are we STILL the worst side apart from GWS and Gold Coast in the comp, if it werent for those 2 sides we'd win our 3rd spoon in 5 years. It's bullsh*t and I've had enough of it. Our best player is a VFL player in his first season of footy.

This club is an absolute mess.

[Harcourt 146]

Can everyone ease up on Watts. He is far from a dud pick despite what the NikNat loving media would have you believe.

[simma02 53]

Answers - we'll get the usual garbage of "It's going to take time", "We have a young group learning", blah, blah blah, blah!!! I think we are all over the standard responses and excuses!

[McQueen 17,864]

I want wins, not answers.

The club has gone through an extremely difficult period just recently and a major overhaul during the off-season.

There a variety of threads available to read through for you to maybe form an opinion on the answers you seek.

Take a deep breath.

[olisik 4,060]

i noticed this to, we keep thinking every player is the next big thing and then they turn into a dud, then our focus is taken away from them and put onto the new players again who are again gonna be the next big thing.

[simma02 53]

Can everyone ease up on Watts. He is far from a dud pick despite what the NikNat loving media would have you believe.

Agreed. Watts is the least of our worries to be honest. In fact he is one of a very small few on our current playing list that has the capacity to become an elite player. A good % of our playing list is cannon fodder!

[daisycutter 29,613]

I know much has been made about how Melbourne treated there older players in the 2008-2011 period, but I just cant help think that this has really left a huge gapping hole in our football club. BUT these players:

James McDonald, Cameron Bruce, Russel Robertson and Brad Miller 3 of which are at other clubs would have set the standard for our young players on how hard you have to work, how hard you have to train and learn and teach them how to become a AFL footballer. While they might not have been in the best 22 even their presence around the club wouldnt go astray.

Robbo would be pleased to hear you say that B)

[The Chazz 4,077]

I know we all have been talking about the past couple of weeks about whats wrong and how have we come to this.

I've taken time to sit back and actually think about whats wrong with this football club.

Myself as been a member for the last 20 years along with the rest of you deserve to get answers on some questions.

I know much has been made about how Melbourne treated there older players in the 2008-2011 period, but I just cant help think that this has really left a huge gapping hole in our football club. BUT these players:

James McDonald, Cameron Bruce, Russel Robertson and Brad Miller 3 of which are at other clubs would have set the standard for our young players on how hard you have to work, how hard you have to train and learn and teach them how to become a AFL footballer. While they might not have been in the best 22 even their presence around the club wouldnt go astray.

You look at our draft choices since the last "REBUILDING PHASE" and we have time and time again wasted good picks. Morton, Watts, Blease, Strauss, Gysberts, Maric, Bennell, Jetta, Cheney. Add in players such as Bate & Dunn who have gone backwards since they started. There is a real culture problem at Melbourne and it seems young players come into this club and they start out alright and then soon realise that their so called role models: Moloney, Sylvia, Rivers, Davey, Jamar, dont work hard so why should they. There is no'one at this club as a player to set a standard, yes Neeld has come in to change things but you learn off your peers, and players at Melbourne have no'one to learn off.

This club told us back in 2008 that we were in it for the long haul and we would draft and rebuild. We were patient and I have been until the last 12 months, 4 years on and this club is just as bad as they were in 2008. All I want is for this club to come up with some answers as to why 5 years in a rebuild are we STILL the worst side apart from GWS and Gold Coast in the comp, if it werent for those 2 sides we'd win our 3rd spoon in 5 years. It's bullsh*t and I've had enough of it. Our best player is a VFL player in his first season of footy.

This club is an absolute mess.

Where to start? Ok, I'll try;

1. Junior - of the opening four names you mentioend, I would rate Junior as the only decent role model amongst them. He was delisted because of his age, and the fact that his body would struggle to cope with another preseason and a full season. Would we have benefited from a season of 12-16 games from Junior in 2011? Well, in hindsight, maybe. But there was absolutely no guarantee that his body would've held up for that long. It was breaking down in 2010, that can't be argued.

2. Bruce - I am happy that he has gone. He was a liability in 2010, and struggled getting a game in 2011 with Hawthorn. Offield, noone knows what sort of influence he had around the Club, and especially on the players.

3. Robbo - I didn't rate Robbo as high as a lot do on here, but I won't go in to that. What I will say is that Robbo's forward pressure was not at the standard that has been required for the past few years, and it's that type of work ethic that can have a negative impact on a younger list.

4. Miller - I was over his play one good game, then 4 poor games. He lacked consistency, and still does, and is a classic example of a footballer who is too good for VFL, but not good enough for AFL. We seem to have our fair share of those types, which makes me question the development coaches.

In regards to the picks such as Maric, Cheney, etc, it's the great unknown. Bad selections or bad developments? The problem is that these types of players had Bruce, Robbo, Junior, Miller, Yze, Brown, etc to look up to when they were starting out, and unfortunately, I'm not sure if there were enough role models to help them. As a result, I think their development took a big step backwards, and we are paying terribly for that over the past couple of years (as these are the guys that should be leading the next young brigade).

As for that "next young brigade", it's been posted many times about the names such as Frawley, Jones, Grimes, Morton, Strauss, Trengove, Blease, Gysberts, Tapscott, Cook and Watts, these are our top picks of the past few years. They too have had bugger all to look up to in terms of role models, and are required to play roles that their years shouldn't require. Thanks to Sylvia, Moloney, Green, Davey and Rivers, these blokes haven't stood up when the young brigade needed them to. It won't be until that young brigade get to the 23-26 year old mark that I hope to Christ that they have changed the culture of the Melbourne Football Club. If they haven't, then it's going to be tough going for the next batch, the likes of Viney and whoever else we get this year.

It may not be this year, but I'd like to think next year, with an ounce of luck that young brigade can play a lot of footy together, and in turn, start winning some matches. It will assist in creating a culture that all will want to be involved in. It won't be until then when we can start to expect the likes of Petterd, McKenzie, Howe, Tynan, Magner, etc to play roles consistently well. These guys are late draft picks or rookies, we as supporters can't expect them to produce what we hoped our first rounders need to. If the odd one can, fantastic, that's a bonus, but it would be great if those players are our fringe players won't it?

[Guest José Mourinho]

Ok, so:

Cameron Bruce - didn't put his head over the ball or set a good example. Often sold his teammates into all sorts of trouble.

A product of the very culture we are trying to rid from our club, in my opinion.

I think Morton tried to model his game on Bruce (probably under instruction) which has done him a great disservice.

Barely getting a game at Hawthorn.

James McDonald - was shot because of injury in the last 3rd of the season, whilst we all had a prescient reminder being played out right infront of us as Brad Johnson limped his way around the field in a vain attempt to win a flag, hurting the dogs chances in the process.

We also wouldn't have been able to draft Tom McDonald.

Played 1 game so far, after a year off to essentially rest his body, as an on-field coach/babysitter. If he plays out the whole season, and well, I might see things slightly differently, but there is a long way to go before that.

Russell Robertson - didn't chase, didn't tackle.

Was happy to watch his opponent run the ball out of the backline as he sat on his backside.

In spite of his tremendous skill, he played for himself, not his teammates.

Brad Miller - sometimes getting a game as 20th best player in the role of 3rd tall forward for a team no better off than MFC.

We need more than an honest trier who achieved very little to show the kids the way.

Not far from being out of the AFL, as he has been an upgraded rookie that last couple of years.

[Guest Dr Who]

I know we all have been talking about the past couple of weeks about whats wrong and how have we come to this.

I've taken time to sit back and actually think about whats wrong with this football club.

Myself as been a member for the last 20 years along with the rest of you deserve to get answers on some questions.

I know much has been made about how Melbourne treated there older players in the 2008-2011 period, but I just cant help think that this has really left a huge gapping hole in our football club. BUT these players:

James McDonald, Cameron Bruce, Russel Robertson and Brad Miller 3 of which are at other clubs would have set the standard for our young players on how hard you have to work, how hard you have to train and learn and teach them how to become a AFL footballer. While they might not have been in the best 22 even their presence around the club wouldnt go astray.

You look at our draft choices since the last "REBUILDING PHASE" and we have time and time again wasted good picks. Morton, Watts, Blease, Strauss, Gysberts, Maric, Bennell, Jetta, Cheney. Add in players such as Bate & Dunn who have gone backwards since they started. There is a real culture problem at Melbourne and it seems young players come into this club and they start out alright and then soon realise that their so called role models: Moloney, Sylvia, Rivers, Davey, Jamar, dont work hard so why should they. There is no'one at this club as a player to set a standard, yes Neeld has come in to change things but you learn off your peers, and players at Melbourne have no'one to learn off.

This club told us back in 2008 that we were in it for the long haul and we would draft and rebuild. We were patient and I have been until the last 12 months, 4 years on and this club is just as bad as they were in 2008. All I want is for this club to come up with some answers as to why 5 years in a rebuild are we STILL the worst side apart from GWS and Gold Coast in the comp, if it werent for those 2 sides we'd win our 3rd spoon in 5 years. It's bullsh*t and I've had enough of it. Our best player is a VFL player in his first season of footy.

This club is an absolute mess.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ - there is your answer. YOU can fix it if you really want.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Dr Who

[Mitch11 0]

As much as people might deny we did it, we did tank to get those draft picks. I cant help but feel as a young kid when you come into a club such as morton, watts, maric etc did that when the club isnt doing its all to win games of footy, how that cant have a bad effect on you. You learn bad habits and maybe those habits are stuck with some of these players for good.

[jnrmac 20,060]

As much as people might deny we did it, we did tank to get those draft picks. I cant help but feel as a young kid when you come into a club such as morton, watts, maric etc did that when the club isnt doing its all to win games of footy, how that cant have a bad effect on you. You learn bad habits and maybe those habits are stuck with some of these players for good.

I wish I could do one of those face palm thingy's.

ps Do you still blame your parents for everything??

[drdrake 3,163]

I will give you one answer 8 first round and priority picks from 2007-2009 still on our list. These 8 players have played in a combined total of 229 games the total number of games they could have played in is 522 games. We have 1 over 50 games Morton who played most of these in his first 2 years. Of these 8 players only 3 played last week and 4 the week before. These 8 have been on our list for 3-5 years, 2 are our co-captians walk up starters and Watts is the only other in our best 18. All we have heard over the past 3 years from Bailey and co was about getting games into our young players you can see that this hasn't happened.

Edited April 11, 2012 by drdrake

[nutbean 8,838]

In all seriousness, what exactly do you want the club to answer ?

Out of the four players you mentioned you could make a case for one of them. Do you think that Cam Bruces example of why he left the club sets the kids a good example. Do you think Robbo's example of how to chase and pressure in his last years sets a good example. Brad Miller still missing easy goals that is demoralising Richmond supporters - does this set a good example ?

And you have pointed the finger at the recruiting of youth and the performance of the seniors - what exactly do you want the club to say. We got it wrong with you kids and older blokes - you are just no good.

What answers do you want ?

[Steamin Demon 392]

Billy2803 & DrDrake have answered this perfectly for you Mitch11.

You wanted answers, Well you got them. Now settle down.

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

A lot of us have been asking this since 1965....

'65 was a dam good year....."I can't get no Satisfaction...."

Would make a great club song as much as i love Grand old Flag..."

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

Where to start? Ok, I'll try;

1. Junior - of the opening four names you mentioend, I would rate Junior as the only decent role model amongst them. He was delisted because of his age, and the fact that his body would struggle to cope with another preseason and a full season. Would we have benefited from a season of 12-16 games from Junior in 2011? Well, in hindsight, maybe. But there was absolutely no guarantee that his body would've held up for that long. It was breaking down in 2010, that can't be argued.

2. Bruce - I am happy that he has gone. He was a liability in 2010, and struggled getting a game in 2011 with Hawthorn. Offield, noone knows what sort of influence he had around the Club, and especially on the players.

3. Robbo - I didn't rate Robbo as high as a lot do on here, but I won't go in to that. What I will say is that Robbo's forward pressure was not at the standard that has been required for the past few years, and it's that type of work ethic that can have a negative impact on a younger list.

4. Miller - I was over his play one good game, then 4 poor games. He lacked consistency, and still does, and is a classic example of a footballer who is too good for VFL, but not good enough for AFL. We seem to have our fair share of those types, which makes me question the development coaches.

In regards to the picks such as Maric, Cheney, etc, it's the great unknown. Bad selections or bad developments? The problem is that these types of players had Bruce, Robbo, Junior, Miller, Yze, Brown, etc to look up to when they were starting out, and unfortunately, I'm not sure if there were enough role models to help them. As a result, I think their development took a big step backwards, and we are paying terribly for that over the past couple of years (as these are the guys that should be leading the next young brigade).

As for that "next young brigade", it's been posted many times about the names such as Frawley, Jones, Grimes, Morton, Strauss, Trengove, Blease, Gysberts, Tapscott, Cook and Watts, these are our top picks of the past few years. They too have had bugger all to look up to in terms of role models, and are required to play roles that their years shouldn't require. Thanks to Sylvia, Moloney, Green, Davey and Rivers, these blokes haven't stood up when the young brigade needed them to. It won't be until that young brigade get to the 23-26 year old mark that I hope to Christ that they have changed the culture of the Melbourne Football Club. If they haven't, then it's going to be tough going for the next batch, the likes of Viney and whoever else we get this year.

It may not be this year, but I'd like to think next year, with an ounce of luck that young brigade can play a lot of footy together, and in turn, start winning some matches. It will assist in creating a culture that all will want to be involved in. It won't be until then when we can start to expect the likes of Petterd, McKenzie, Howe, Tynan, Magner, etc to play roles consistently well. These guys are late draft picks or rookies, we as supporters can't expect them to produce what we hoped our first rounders need to. If the odd one can, fantastic, that's a bonus, but it would be great if those players are our fringe players won't it?

Well said Billy....our young recruits have to look up to Dave Misson, Mark Neeld, Leigh Brown etc.

There is no one on our list who has achieved....a very sad indictment, but the truth.

[bing181 9,224]

I've taken time to sit back and actually think about whats wrong with this football club.

Sitting AND thinking. That would be multi-tasking I believe.

[DemonOX 8,791]

Personally I think its the LACK of development under DB that has not helped these new recruits. Softly,softly approach what a joke.

Now with Misson, Neeld, Brown and co at the helm it will turn. Its like turning the titanic in that it will be a slow process (and hopefully we will swim and not sink).

[Demon Disciple 12,122]

Personally I think its the LACK of development under DB that has not helped these new recruits. Softly,softly approach what a joke.

Now with Misson, Neeld, Brown and co at the helm it will turn. Its like turning the titanic in that it will be a slow process (and hopefully we will swim and not sink).

Totally agree.

I remember at the time around the 2008 draft thinking that we should not recruit Natanui, purely because he was so raw and the coaches would've ruined his potential. Hopefully with the amount of coaches and the attitude of Neeld, our development of kids will greatly improve.

[DeeZee 7,392]

Yes there was a culture problem at the club, but its in the process of being fixed, with Neelds hard line attitude.

I was told by a source close to the club that the problems came to a head when the club knew Scully wouldnt commit to the club, and asked Bailey not to play him.

Bailey refused and this caused all sorts of divisions in the club with senior players led by Green forced to take sides.

The week this happened we played Geelong and the rest is history

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

Yes there was a culture problem at the club, but its in the process of being fixed, with Neelds hard line attitude.

I was told by a source close to the club that the problems came to a head when the club knew Scully wouldnt commit to the club, and asked Bailey not to play him.

Bailey refused and this caused all sorts of divisions in the club with senior players led by Green forced to take sides.

The week this happened we played Geelong and the rest is history

Remind me, Did $cully play in 186 or are you referring to the weekend after..

Your source makes a lot of sense btw.

[DeeZee 7,392]

Cant remember if he played or not but thats when it happened

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

Cant remember if he played or not but thats when it happened

Pity they didn't make it public...would have made a lot of things easier....no wonder he played so wide the last time i saw him play.

Little Turd..what a waste of energy it was.

Edit: And let me say this...If Brad Green is still bothered by all this he should just retire..$cully knew what he was going to do in March.

It would suprise me greatly if our playing list did not know the same.

Edited April 11, 2012 by why you little

[diesel 420]

Yes there was a culture problem at the club, but its in the process of being fixed, with Neelds hard line attitude.

I was told by a source close to the club that the problems came to a head when the club knew Scully wouldnt commit to the club, and asked Bailey not to play him.

Bailey refused and this caused all sorts of divisions in the club with senior players led by Green forced to take sides.

The week this happened we played Geelong and the rest is history

I have no doubt the club hierarchy knew Scully was gone but I don't know if this would have rolled into that?

I do think TS will go down as one of the worst characters to ever set foot in the MFC and that his presence had a poisonous impact on the playing group. Perhaps we've just seen a bit of that in the last week or so with an us v them attitude in relation to the knew FD's methods?