Brent Moloney

[Macca 16,173]

Very well against poor sides and games we dominate.

And pathetic, by his standards, against better teams.

Jones, apparently not as prolific a possession gatherer as Moloney finished with only 2 possessions less than Moloney last season because of the fact that Moloney was 'the little girl with a curl.'

You might want to fix up the years in post #97 'rp' . That's what I was commenting on .

But you're so unhappy with Moloney you completely missed the little bit of humour .

Unless of course you reckon that 2012 has already happened . If so , can ya throw some lotto numbers our way ?

Cheers !

Edited February 12, 2012 by Macca

[beelzebub 22,225]

I think a degree of mythology is sneaking into the whole debate.. As is often the case where you have a team that perenially underperforms or lacks the taste of real success that the whole sclae of adornment gets re-standardised in order to accomodate any one(s) that show anything. Moloney is a classic case in point. He might well get a game any any one of 12 of the other Teams but he certainly wouldnt have featured in many of the better teams B and F polling. Its just that against other Melbourne players he looked far better.. In the end the Bluey is a club award and only ajudged within club ranks. Does this mean one way or the other , that beamer can opr cant play very good football ? it all but becomes moot as he CAN.But its not a super skilled game unlike say Judd ( as many have used him as the comparison ) . Beamer can and often does put in a very good workmanlike and gutsy performance. What lets him down is probably the lack of consitency and that he seems unable to lift above the heavier attention that better competiion will give him.

As others have already alluded to Neeld doesnt rate him for any leadership. Thats kinda odd in a fashion.. the B & F player of 2011 isnt given a gig amongst the leaders ?? How is this possible ? Its possible , and indeed needed for the very reasons I started this post about. Its where that sliding scale of impression sits.. Supporters will often fudge and reinvent reality to suit their cause. Neeld does not and indeed should not do so. He only needs pure and simple reality.

Im not about to acuse him ( BM) of being the flat track runner (bully ) some are but you have ask why he can play decently some days and gets nullified others.

if youre geting done and your possesion count is dropping then the reverse ought to be happening to your tackle count etc

This is an area it seems Neeld is adressing, making players ( team ) very accountable for where and who has the ball. Football isnt that sophisticated really. if youhave the ball do something positive and creative with it. If you dont have it, get it, and stop the opposition of being positive in the meantime.

For far too long the Demons have played half a game of footy, looking good with it, looking comical and or lethargic without.

Moloney isnt alone, he has mates that will also have to reduce if not reverse the discrepencies between the good games and bad.

When the going got tough at Melbourne in years past....some just were gone.

I expect a far better effort by us this year and i would hope Brent can take the next step

[rpfc 27,386]

You might want to fix up the years in post #97 'rp' . That's what I was commenting on .

But you're so unhappy with Moloney you completely missed the little bit of humour .

Unless of course you reckon that 2012 has already happened . If so , can ya throw some lotto numbers our way ?

Cheers !

Fixed!

Sorry, I must be too eager for 2012 to start.

[Macca 16,173]

Fixed!

Sorry, I must be too eager for 2012 to start.

Probably a good way to end this debate is that we all hope Brent continues to get better .

And 'rp' it's only 13 days before we front up against the Lions and Suns in the pre-season cup .

A new coach , new gameplan , new players , new beginnings , hope .

Can't wait

Cheers

[PaulRB 5,897]

No midfielder is an island and good sides target the oppositions best ball winner. Perhaps a stat you should look for is in the broader MFC midfield group when Brent plays badly. Good teams protect their ball winners, in bad teams its everyone for themselves and team discipline breaks down... Brent is as good a midfielder as Ball, yet Ball is playing in a well oiled and disciplined midfield.

I reckon we should ease up on our best player of 2011 and see how he adapts to the new coach and gameplan.

Go Demons

Go Brent Moloney

[rpfc 27,386]

No midfielder is an island and good sides target the oppositions best ball winner. Perhaps a stat you should look for is in the broader MFC midfield group when Brent plays badly. Good teams protect their ball winners, in bad teams its everyone for themselves and team discipline breaks down... Brent is as good a midfielder as Ball, yet Ball is playing in a well oiled and disciplined midfield.

I reckon we should ease up on our best player of 2011 and see how he adapts to the new coach and gameplan.

Go Demons

Go Brent Moloney

He is a very good player.

He has areas to improve.

That is all I am saying.

How can we expect more if we accept less?

[Biffen 12,298]

All right enough of this .BM is actually the least of our problems .Perhaps he can improve as he does every year .As Martin Flanagan said in yesterdays paper he is the heart and soul of our club and actually barracked for us as a kid so he knows the history .Why don't we pick apart the guys like Morton and Gysberts-who never put a block on for him .CM is one guy that should thank god he is still on a list . Brent , as has been said ,would walk into any team in the comp.Can he get better? Yes we/he can! By the way ,I don't want to keep up bagging our own .Morton has another crack ,has 80 games to his name ,should be doing the business now and has not done the business so far .I think he lacks confidence and just needs a breakout game . Consider Moloneys losing performances in light of the guys he has had to protect and let run free under our stupid plan last year .There will be no "outside/inside " this year . Everyone is inside till we have the pill .Any BM knockers here ever won a an AFL B&F ?

[rpfc 27,386]

All right enough of this .BM is actually the least of our problems .Perhaps he can improve as he does every year .As Martin Flanagan said in yesterdays paper he is the heart and soul of our club and actually barracked for us as a kid so he knows the history .Why don't we pick apart the guys like Morton and Gysberts-who never put a block on for him .CM is one guy that should thank god he is still on a list . Brent , as has been said ,would walk into any team in the comp.Can he get better? Yes we/he can! By the way ,I don't want to keep up bagging our own .Morton has another crack ,has 80 games to his name ,should be doing the business now and has not done the business so far .I think he lacks confidence and just needs a breakout game . Consider Moloneys losing performances in light of the guys he has had to protect and let run free under our stupid plan last year .There will be no "outside/inside " this year . Everyone is inside till we have the pill .Any BM knockers here ever won a an AFL B&F ?

He can become one of the best players in the league if he rectifies his consistency issues. He is an elite, or near elite, clearance player and effective around the ground.

Why can't we have a top 20 player right now?

Trengove will be one in 2 or 3 years time, but Beamer has the opportunity right now to improve and throw the disappointment of being left out of the Leadership Group and become one of the best midfielders in the league.

I want him to have that standard to reach. Simply saying 'there are plenty others who have more to do than Beamer' is a standard that will not see our best players improve.

And we need 3 or 4 stars, at least, to be a top 4 team. We haven't had one since Neitz. Why can't we turn very good players into stars of the game?

So Beamer may be the least of our problems, but he is indicative of a problem we have had for the last two decades.

[stuie 7,374]

He can become one of the best players in the league if he rectifies his consistency issues. He is an elite, or near elite, clearance player and effective around the ground.

Why can't we have a top 20 player right now?

Trengove will be one in 2 or 3 years time, but Beamer has the opportunity right now to improve and throw the disappointment of being left out of the Leadership Group and become one of the best midfielders in the league.

I want him to have that standard to reach. Simply saying 'there are plenty others who have more to do than Beamer' is a standard that will not see our best players improve.

And we need 3 or 4 stars, at least, to be a top 4 team. We haven't had one since Neitz. Why can't we turn very good players into stars of the game?

So Beamer may be the least of our problems, but he is indicative of a problem we have had for the last two decades.

Unbelieveable.

You talk about the problems we've had in the last 2 decades while blatantly bagging out our current BnF. So massively hypocritical, and typical of the atitude from many MFC "supporters" that is partly to blame for the lack of success.

Probably the only supporters I know of that will dig up and misuse statistics to support their argument that our current most valuable player is a "flat track bully", "inconsistent", etc etc...

Despite everything that's been done the last few years, despite the massive changes, despite the "blank canvas", and despite the cultural changes the club is fighting for, there is still that big area of MFC "supporters" that seem to be happiest when complaining.

[rpfc 27,386]

Unbelieveable.

You talk about the problems we've had in the last 2 decades while blatantly bagging out our current BnF. So massively hypocritical, and typical of the atitude from many MFC "supporters" that is partly to blame for the lack of success.

Probably the only supporters I know of that will dig up and misuse statistics to support their argument that our current most valuable player is a "flat track bully", "inconsistent", etc etc...

Despite everything that's been done the last few years, despite the massive changes, despite the "blank canvas", and despite the cultural changes the club is fighting for, there is still that big area of MFC "supporters" that seem to be happiest when complaining.

You can't tell me that the players don't look back to last season and not want to improve.

There is no 'blank canvas' for players' expectations on themselves.

I expect it is no different for Beamer - who I rate rather highly if you only want to read half of my posts.

And this club, i'm sorry to say, hasn't had 'stars' of the game. We have had Neitz for a few seasons, Garry, Jimmy, and Robbie Flower as stars of the game.

We finally have some 'potential' in our team but that is just that. Potential.

Moloney has the chance, in 2012, to be a top 20 midfielder, so while I am 'bagging' him, it is because he can be an 'A grade' player in 2012 with consistency.

[Biffen 12,298]

The human psyche is naturally inclined to look for symbols, stars ,and a hero .

In the words of Tina Turner- we dont need another hero .

We need 22 of them .

[Cards13 9,117]

that's my point Stuie. He wasn't required. He had influenza. It is ludicrous to even consider Beamer could make it through a game of AFL against a top team with the flu. It may well have been a factor that led to Bails and our medical staff's departure.

It was just amatuer hour the whole way through.

Neeld has made the right call i believe.

Watch last years GF again. That is an indication of where we have to be at plus a bit more.

Not bashing just stating what I saw. For a guy who had "influenza" and couldn't do the work assinged to him in his job that day to a compentant level it was disappinting to see him out at dinner that night at the Prahran Hotel. While I love his work on the ground when it is going our way, that to me showed the MFC leadership of last year.

[stuie 7,374]

Not bashing just stating what I saw. For a guy who had "influenza" and couldn't do the work assinged to him in his job that day to a compentant level it was disappinting to see him out at dinner that night at the Prahran Hotel. While I love his work on the ground when it is going our way, that to me showed the MFC leadership of last year.

Don't know what's worse here...

-The witch hunt by certain posters agains last years Bluey winner

-The "dibber dobber" tone of this post

-The conspiracy theory you're trying to put forward about the "influenza"

-The unrealistic standards some of you expect from our players, by all means we want the utmost profesisonalism, but these are human beings, should he have stayed home and gone hungry? Have you ever left the house when unwell?

Come on guys, seriously, this is getting to the point of being silly, go read Woman's Day if you want rumour, innuendo, and some tall poppy action.

[Demonsterative 1,893]

Bailey was trying for germ warfare that day. It didn't work.

Get over the deconstruction of Beamer. If he was 22 you would all love him and see no fault. Jones was a whipping boy and now that has changed as Neeld will turn him into the next Swan. Unbelievable

[BIG JIM 508]

Bailey was trying for germ warfare that day. It didn't work.

Get over the deconstruction of Beamer. If he was 22 you would all love him and see no fault. Jones was a whipping boy and now that has changed as Neeld will turn him into the next Swan. Unbelievable

Very well said moloney is a gun for our club bottom line. And he would be the first pick for mine every week going on current form if you cant see that then you are a joke to the red and blue army. Love some of the hate out there to go towards some collingwood scum or even GWS. lets go back to loving the best and fairest player.

[rpfc 27,386]

If I answered posts in the extreme, the way that some on here do, I could rhetorically ask "do you see Moloney's game as faultless?"

But I won't do that because no-one would think that.

So how is this such a devastating 'witch hunt' when all we are saying is that our best player, and reigning Bluey winner, does not have a faultless game?

That is not a rhetorical question...

[Great Sage 51]

Wow.... If this is the level of respect a player who gives as much as Beamer does gets from some on this board, then I would hate to see some posts (hopefully deleted anyway) for those who give less. I hope that all new recruits are told never to read this board as why would you want to bleed for a group of keyboard warriors who will turn on you in an instant and highlight every perceived flaw they can identify. For in some instances, 19- 20 year old kids trying to succeed in an extremely competitive and scrutinised industry to be subject to some of the abuse on this site makes me sick. I know that some are just being honest and calling it how they see it, but I do wonder if these same people when they walk down the street advise people as they pass that they are fat, ugly, smell...etc because they are such upfront straight shooters. I doubt it!!!!!

I am reminded of a show I saw (can't remember what it was called) where a group of AFL players visited a particularly abusive fans place of work and heckled her from outside the front window. The fan was promptly reduced to tears and claimed to be scarred by the incident.

Is it conceivable that despite what people may think, many players do give their all but find their performance is restricted by skill, talent, injury, coaching, game plans, luck, so on...? If application is the sole determinant of performance, then there would not be as much distinction between A, B, C, D grade players. If you can do better then please put your name in the draft and come save our club. Be prepared for abuse, ridicule and unfounded rumours though, because that is how we treat those we support.

edited for spelling

Edited February 13, 2012 by Great Sage

[rpfc 27,386]

Love to see the posts that show a 'lack of respect' just so they can be properly and directly torn apart rather than just loosely mentioned as lacking respect.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

There is a yawning gap of difference of discussing the strengths and weakness of a player and personal abuse (walk down the street advise people as they pass that they are fat, ugly, smell...etc because they are such upfront straight shooters). Re read, re think and try again.

And "bleeding" for a club has to be most hollow accolade placed on a player on this site. Its means nothing. And its begs the logical question "Which players dont bleed"?

[deesrule 104]

Surely his worth is in clearances rather than possessions and thats more of a result of him and Jamar can you put up a spread of his clearances with Jamar in wins and losses and without Jamar in wins and losses

Edited February 13, 2012 by deesrule

[Cards13 9,117]

Don't know what's worse here...

-The witch hunt by certain posters agains last years Bluey winner

-The "dibber dobber" tone of this post

-The conspiracy theory you're trying to put forward about the "influenza"

-The unrealistic standards some of you expect from our players, by all means we want the utmost profesisonalism, but these are human beings, should he have stayed home and gone hungry? Have you ever left the house when unwell?

Come on guys, seriously, this is getting to the point of being silly, go read Woman's Day if you want rumour, innuendo, and some tall poppy action.

Stuie.... which hunt... spare me the histrionics, comment on what I saw.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Cards13

[H_T 2,941]

Love to see the posts that show a 'lack of respect' just so they can be properly and directly torn apart rather than just loosely mentioned as lacking respect.

+ 1.

Reply directly to the posts concerned and be accountable.

[beelzebub 22,225]

May i be informed when the meeting was held and motion passed that should any player win a B and F they they suddenly have immunity from any reasonable critique, good or bad ?

I missed the memo on that one

Do we then take it that Moloney has reached his pinacle ? that we cant reasonably expect that he ( let alone us ) would want to improve his game ? Would he have been satisifed with 2011 ?? should anyone be ?

It does very much go to the notion as suggested by RPFC that if we accept what is ( or was ) then we have no call on expecting anything different. Iftheres to be no different then they might as well all pack up and go home.

Interestly the Olympic motto is Citius, Altius, Fortius , which is Latin for "Faster, Higher, Stronger". I cant see anywhere where they suggest... "Stop, done enough"

Why ought it be any different for our game and its players.

Edited February 14, 2012 by belzebub59

[stuie 7,374]

Interesting to see the negative side of this discussion go from "flat track bully" and "not a leaders toenail" (direct quotes there) to now saying things like "we're just saying he's not flawless" etc etc...

I don't think anyone has said Beamer is perfect, but the people continually harping on his deficincies and even pulling out stats to try and prove their point (incorrectly mind you) are just managing to highlight the real reason Melbourne Football Club seems so heartless and gutless to the rest of the league, it's supporters (or a vocal percentage of them anyways).

And don't give me this "saticsfaction" carp, of course no one is satisfied, of course everyone wants success, but nit picking faults in such a gutsy player for our club is helping how? Personally, I think some of you aren't "satisified" without something to complain about and you delight in doing just that.

[BIG JIM 508]

Interesting to see the negative side of this discussion go from "flat track bully" and "not a leaders toenail" (direct quotes there) to now saying things like "we're just saying he's not flawless" etc etc...

I don't think anyone has said Beamer is perfect, but the people continually harping on his deficincies and even pulling out stats to try and prove their point (incorrectly mind you) are just managing to highlight the real reason Melbourne Football Club seems so heartless and gutless to the rest of the league, it's supporters (or a vocal percentage of them anyways).

And don't give me this "saticsfaction" carp, of course no one is satisfied, of course everyone wants success, but nit picking faults in such a gutsy player for our club is helping how? Personally, I think some of you aren't "satisified" without something to complain about and you delight in doing just that.

Very well said i love you beamer and you will always be a leader in my book.and also be the best and fairest player at our club in the history books.He does not deserve to be called leaders toenail what a bad comment.And he will get better again in 2012