Brent Moloney

[Macca 17,009]

I saw Robbie Flower get beaten more than a few times in his career ( against good sides )

According to some here that may qualify him as a flat track bully . It's a totally flawed argument .

Oh and 'Lutz' , next time you run into your "Mate" Brent Moloney , make sure you tell him what you've said on this site about him .

Now , I reckon we'd all like to be "Flies on the wall" for that steamy conversation !!

Cheers

[Sir Why You Little 37,052]

I don't think it is tough to sit in the grandstand and bag our players or sit in the comfort of your study and bag them on a supporters site, they are human and as such have faults. Just re watched last years prelim (Haw vs Coll) So many mistakes, so many missed kicks and so many missed shots for goal, yet all players were launded for such a great game. I see the faults but I also see the effort and the direction we are striving for without calling for player's heads. If all of the players that this site bagged were culled, we wouldn't have a team.

I am not bagging Beamer & never have. I actually want him to be BOG in that Prelim you watched. But to do that he must get better.

[Bossdog 2,002]

I am not bagging Beamer & never have. I actually want him to be BOG in that Prelim you watched. But to do that he must get better.

Not saying that he doesn't have to get better WYL just want people to understand that it is a tough game we play and despite some appearances they are all trying to get better. Just don't need the contant degrading comments (not you) that appear on this site.

[Macca 17,009]

Fair comment. But as a V/C it was not acceptable. He actually put his younger team mates under more pressure.

Lets not forget his stats for that game.

It is hard work walking to the bathroom with the flu, so i cannot imagine what playing AFL Footy would be like!!

No it is never a perfect world, but the MFC seserves better decision makers than that.

I want Flags in front of 100,000 people, nothing less.

Yeah , he was poor in that game . But so were the large majority of the team . If he doesn't play we still get thrashed .

We were also very poor in a number of games last year not just that game . Too much is made of 186 . To me it was the straw that broke the camel's back .

Cheers

[Demonsterative 3,020]

If Beamers leadership or lack of, is about changing a premiership drought or avoiding another 186, what does that say about one of our greats, Robbie Flower? His leadership took him to one finals campaign and multiple thrashing.

His stats only prove that he is the barometer of our midfield. Beamer is my favorite player, but this needs to change. I'd be interested in his midfield mates stats too.

I'm not sure if he is intelligent or not, but I'm surer than sure who I respect.

[Sir Why You Little 37,052]

Yeah , he was poor in that game . But so were the large majority of the team . If he doesn't play we still get thrashed .

We were also very poor in a number of games last year not just that game . Too much is made of 186 . To me it was the straw that broke the camel's back .

Cheers

Fair enough but i have to disagree on 186... too much is NOT made of that game. It was a F$&@ing disgrace. Everything was wrong with it.

But that is my opinion.

[Macca 17,009]

If Beamers leadership or lack of, is about changing a premiership drought or avoiding another 186, what does that say about one of our greats, Robbie Flower? His leadership took him to one finals campaign and multiple thrashing.

His stats only prove that he is the barometer of our midfield. Beamer is my favorite player, but this needs to change. I'd be interested in his midfield mates stats too.

I'm not sure if he is intelligent or not, but I'm surer than sure who I respect.

Good points there D . Brent is no longer in the LG and some here want to put the boot in .

Maybe Neeld wants to develop others in the LG to see if the added responsibilty gets the best out of them .

He may see Moloney as one of his on field motivators and that's his best and ideal role . There's probably nothing sinister in Brent not being in the LG . ( IMO )

Cheers

[Hannibal 5,814]

I agree with you Stu. So many people on here bag our players. Our supporters are gettin like Richmond members. Eating their own

I've always reserved the right to bag my team's players, just as I reserve the right to praise them when I see fit. I've been watching crud since 1970, so it's fair to say that there's been somewhat of a disparity between my praise and my bagging. I'm more than happy to start balancing the ledger. In fact, I'm quite eager.

[Macca 17,009]

Fair enough but i have to disagree on 186... too much is NOT made of that game. It was a F$&@ing disgrace. Everything was wrong with it.

But that is my opinion.

Hardly any mention is made of our other poor performances ( Eagles , Hawks , Pies , Blues twice , North , etc ) These other "shockers" have somehow become "lost" . To focus on one game can make it sound like an abberation and it wasn't .

We have a whole new FD now and a whole new direction and like you I expect our team to play finals this year .

If there is some form of "redemption" it should be based on the whole of last year not just that game . I do , however , reckon Mark Neeld will be zeroing in on the positives .

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,216]

I'm sure you'll find most players have better stats in wins than losses and against lesser teams than better teams, so does that make EVERY player in the AFL a flat track bully?

I can't believe people are pulling out stats to support they're bagging of a player at OUR CLUB.

What is happening here?!

It is not out of context at all. I am disagreeing with your point completely. We are not talking about a minor decrease in numbers which I agree would be normal for a player in a loss. We are talking about a massive gap between his best and worst games. We are also not talking about inconsistencies in the teams where he shone against the better sides. All his top possession games are against the bottom sides. With the exception of the North game his worst games came against the better sides. Its pretty clear logic to me.

I dont understand why measured criticism is seen as bagging a player. All I am stating is he needs to seriously improve his performances against better sides. I have just as much issue with people who cannot see a players weaknesses just because he plays for OUR CLUB.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,216]

Nathan Jones stats in brackets from the same games

Moloney top 5 possession

36 vs Brisbane (27)

35 vs Port (23)

32 vs Gold Coast (25)

31 vs Adelaide (28)

30 vs Richmond (22)

Moloney bottom 5 possession games 2011

0 vs Geelong (19)

15 vs Carlton (22)

16 vs North (23)

17 vs Hawthorn (23)

18 vs West Coast (27)

[beelzebub 23,380]

The Flanagan article is great. A trait of Martin's writings is he does gravitate to the emotional core of things and he does this again and by way of such alligns with Moloney as would be warranrted under such an appraisal. Luckily Neeld is looking at this club , in terms of effectiveness, devoid of emotion. His assessments are clinical almost the opposite of how many view players. Curiously Neeld elects to not only to overlook Moloney as a Captain but doenst have him in theLG at all.

In miltary terms Beamer would make a great and effective NCO...but hes never the one to really take charge of group as that needs an extra dimension and thats just not Beamers forte.....blood and guts, over the hill , here we come, yes. But see the bigger picture and effect game winning changes in the charges beneath him...I dont think so. This is where the likes of Trengove or grimes will assume their role,in time. The vison and ability is just broader.

[Macca 17,009]

It is not out of context at all. I am disagreeing with your point completely. We are not talking about a minor decrease in numbers which I agree would be normal for a player in a loss. We are talking about a massive gap between his best and worst games. We are also not talking about inconsistencies in the teams where he shone against the better sides. All his top possession games are against the bottom sides. With the exception of the North game his worst games came against the better sides. Its pretty clear logic to me.

I dont understand why measured criticism is seen as bagging a player. All I am stating is he needs to seriously improve his performances against better sides. I have just as much issue with people who cannot see a players weaknesses just because he plays for OUR CLUB.

Yours is not measured criticism . It's unnecessary criticism .

Clearances - best - Moloney . Hard ball gets / Contested possessions - best - Moloney . Maybe if a few more players stepped up a tad in these crucial areas we'd win more games . If we'd won a few games when Brent was quiet what would you say then ?

I could mount an argument that if we were without Brent we might have only won 4-5 games . Stats can be used in reverse remember ?

As far as I'm concerned when OUR team gets stitched up then the whole team takes the blame . Not just one bloke . Do you expect Moloney to dominate every time he plays ?

Dane Swan had a quiet one in the GF . Sack him ? He had a few mates that day as well btw .

Cheers

[Arrow 1,257]

Seriously I know there's some personal vendettas out there and everyone can't love everyone's post but this is getting ridiculous. Personal fights are wrecking each and every thread; stuie with all due respect your comment was required on a Brent Moloney or Leadership thread and now it's turned 3 articles into a cat fight. Mods please I know it's hard but we need to fix this c**p

[rpfc 28,541]

Love Beamer, but he averaged 9 touches less in losses than in wins. In 2010 he averaged 5 touches less.

In 2010 and 2011 Jones averaged half a touch less in losses than in wins.

BRFE is on the mark here.

We are not burning him at the stake - we are asking more from arguably our best player.

[Macca 17,009]

Love Beamer, but he averaged 9 touches less in losses than in wins. In 2010 he averaged 5 touches less.

In 2010 and 2011 Jones averaged half a touch less in losses than in wins.

BRFE is on the mark here.

We are not burning him at the stake - we are asking more from arguably our best player.

Brent now gets more touches in our wins ( 4 more ) . So he's improved yeah ?

Cheers

Edited February 11, 2012 by Macca

[bing181 9,246]

We are not burning him at the stake - we are asking more from arguably our best player.

If I may:

We are not burning him at the stake - we are asking for more consistency from arguably our best player.

[Macca 17,009]

If I may:

We are not burning him at the stake - we are asking for more consistency from arguably our best player.

Well Brent has progressed to generally playing very well when we win ( from sometimes good ? )

Moloney is not Chris Judd or Gary Ablett but we still should be thankful we've got him . How's our midfield without him ?

As I said in an earlier post it's the other midfielders who need to get better .

Cheers

[Sir Why You Little 37,052]

Well Brent has progressed to generally playing very well when we win ( from sometimes good ? )

Moloney is not Chris Judd or Gary Ablett but we still should be thankful we've got him . How's our midfield without him ?

As I said in an earlier post it's the other midfielders who need to get better .

Cheers

You still haven't raised the bar Macca...in 2011 he went backwards (as did the whole team)...it was a poor year, regardless of the Bluey.

[jnrmac 20,108]

Was referring to Demonland posters, not the club. As I said, without knowing everyting behind the scenes it's impossible to understand the decision for good or bad, but the way the Beamer haters have come out of the woodwork against our BEST player from last year just astounds me.

Wow. Beamer haters? Not sure if you were referring to my post but as I stated I mostly love his work on the field. He is classic good ordinary player and tremendous part of our team. He doesn't tear oppositions apart which in his position and with his experience he should do against more than weaker teams.

I am simply making statements about his leadership. Two different things.

As for the Bartram comparison, Bartram is a defender against the oppositions most dangerous small player, he is not the type to drag us back into the game when we are getting pole-axed.

Neeld clearly knows what he wants in leaders and I suggest he knows them a lot better than we do as watchers from afar.

[Macca 17,009]

You still haven't raised the bar Macca...in 2011 he went backwards (as did the whole team)...it was a poor year, regardless of the Bluey.

Pertinant to 2011

1 - Without Moloney our midfield is cactus

2 - Without Moloney we win less games

3 - He is a sometimes matchwinner

4 - He leads the club in clearances / Hardball gets / contested possessions

5 - 19 brownlow votes

6 - B & F

7 - The opposition know that if they shut him down it's game over .

8 - He gets very little support in the midfield generally ( which must be taxing )

And the whole team is largely poor in most of our losses .

2012 - Hopefully it all changes and we get an even spread right across the whole midfield .

I can't help but think if Brent was still in the LG then he wouldn't be copping it as much . It's a classic case of opportunism by some .

And to say he had a poor year is just not right .

Cheers

[beelzebub 23,380]

Love Beamer, but he averaged 9 touches less in losses than in wins. In 2010 he averaged 5 touches less.

In 2010 and 2011 Jones averaged half a touch less in losses than in wins.

BRFE is on the mark here.

We are not burning him at the stake - we are asking more from arguably our best player.

totally lost onmany. The minute you ask anyone to be accountable (player wise ) its verging onheresy. its this soft soft indifference toreality that has caused much of the mailaise this club has endured for more years than many of us would care to remember.

No one here suggest Beamers isnt a dyed intehwool demon. , nor that he doesnt bleed red and blue and any of another half dozen euthemisms we can trot out. But if we are dead set honest about appraisal and where this club is..or was. Consider that that same Brent Moloney , stalwart of the team etc etc, is the same that gathered the stats that BRFE highlights and that the same BM won our Best and Fairest...Thats not just sobering...thats a damning indictment of why we havent achieved much of late.

Brent and all his mates need to lift and do so demonstrably and emphatically.

I actually for one think Beamers getting better and more rounded as a player. For too may seasons he was a blinkered one dimensional player. Last season he showed us he has a bit of vision and can vary his play. Thats good. Now he needs to put it all together. I think he just might. Hes nuggetly determined and can play.

As RPFC suggest we arent having a go...we just wanting these players to play to their obvious ability..and do so for the requisite 100 mins per game. Simnple isnt it

[Macca 17,009]

Hypothetical question . Can't happen but .......

What would we as a club expect to get in return for Brent if he were to go to Richmond this upcoming season ? Why Richmond you ask ? Just to spice things up a bit !

I'd be very interested in the opinions of those who feel he is inconsistent .

Cheers , Macca

[Biffen 12,944]

Reasons for his differentials are due to tagging, blocking and tapping to the opposite side he is on . They are not a result of his lack of effort . They are tactics from teams that have worked out that to stop him in 2011 was to stop us .

[Demonsterative 3,020]

Terms like 'flat track bully', 'ordinary' etc don't help when explaining a man who does bleed red and blue, gives it his all etc.

The guy had his best year playing a lone hand against some elite midfields. He played better against the weaker teams. That's how it goes. We have a weak midfield. We got thrashed multiple times and midfields lifted against us, coz we are terrible.

The accolades last year speak for themselves. Beamer is the least of our worries. Credit where and when it's due.

Why do most talk up Grimes, Trengove or Watts and then some talk down Beamer. he just isn't as talented. Give me performance over talent