Training - Monday 16th January, 2012 at Casey Fields

[DemonWA 3,940]

Here it is in all it's glory

What about Martin's hair cut? I can't be bothered scanning through all of those photos!

[Guest Finnson]

Lazy bastards!

[McQueen 17,867]

What's with all the sleeves on these dudes? These guys are becoming a bunch of lemmings re: the tatts.

If you look closely at the photo in the Age article, you will notice Clark seems to have a full blown bloody mural etched on to his right side.

Sleeve tatts.... They are so yesterday.

[Axis of Bob 11,912]

Agree with your ruck ideas but Sellar pushing Frawley off the No.1 back perch?

I think that is giving him a celing that is going to be tough to meet...

He should be aiming to do what Rivers and Garland seemingly can't - play on resting rucks and help against teams that have multiple big bodied threats (Cloke and Dawes).

So I don't think he will be expected to push Frawley down the proverbial totem pole.

Personally, I think he is going to struggle but he is low risk - high reward.

Would you think that Tom Lonergan would be able to push Scarlett off the number 1 forward? Zac Dawson pushing Sam Fisher off?

The idea is that we let our most damaging defender play where he can be most damaging. Frawley can stop any forward but a lot of those players, especially as the game changes to more long bombs forward, can be stopped by big, yet slightly less talented players. Sam Fisher is a good player who zones off well and takes a lot of marks as the extra man up, but he can only take those marks because Dawson is wrestling the key forward and keeping him on the ground. Why waste Frawley on a job that Sellar can do?

Tom Lonergan averaged less that 10 disposals per game last year. Scarlett was an All Australian playing as a rebounding, helping defender. Why? Because he has speed, strength, game sense and poise. He uses this to open up the play. When he was forced to play on Buddy, Geelong lost the 2008 Grand Final, even though he shut Buddy out from the game. Geelong lost more than Hawthorn did by sacrificing Scarlett's run from defence.

Put another way, you'd have to think that Chriss Judd would be one of best negating small defenders around. He is quick, really strong, a great size and wins a lot of contests. Imagine putting him in a back pocket on Alex Fasolo .... he'd smash him. But would you? Not in a million years, because his value to the team is much higher as a midfielder and there are other players on the team that should be able to takeFasolo.

This is what Frawley does. Sellar taking the number one forward does not mean that Frawley is being shifted down the totem. It is actually recognition that he should be higher. It means that Frawley uses his speed, power and skills to break lines coming from defence and turn the ball over from the opposition kicks, rather than just wrestling and punching the ball away from the opposition. He's too good a player for that.

Sellar is no world beater, but what we hope he can do is the same thing that other 'no world beaters' can do, like Zac Dawson or Tom Lonergan. It's a role that requires a few attributes (size, strength, athleticism) but also allows for players that aren't particularly offensively talented to be effective. Hopefully Sellar can take that role and improve our team by getting our more talented players into more valuable roles.

[3031 11]

Well expressed Axis of Bob.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Agree good news on James Strauss. We need somone designated to kick in and he's my preference, my alternative is Tapscott. I like Sellar in the backline if he can stand-up because that will free Frawley off the key forward. My back 6 of Frawley, Sellar, Rivers, Garland, Bartram, Grimes doesn't have a logical kick-in unless it's Frawley or Garland. I would like either Strauss or Tapscott in there and Grimes to the midfield.

If Strauss is ever a best 22 player Melbourne will be seriously in trouble.

[beelzebub 23,390]

What about Martin's hair cut? I can't be bothered scanning through all of those photos!

I reckon Martin might be a fellow fan of the Leningrad Cowboys !!!

[Lutz 76]

Then how come Sellar didn't do that at Adelaide..?

Not writing the guy off, but he's being given a lot of credit sight unseen.

[Lutz 76]

If Strauss is ever a best 22 player Melbourne will be seriously in trouble.

In my opinion, that is pure ignorance.

Just my opinion of course.

[Sir Why You Little 37,342]

good news on Jake Spencer - I know many here don't rate him but he can play the #1 ruck role if required. With Gawn injured he's very important depth if Jamar also gets injured which has happened. Stef could step up as #1 but that would mean rucking Clark. I'd prefer Jake in for the Russian if required. If Stef gets injured it's a different story - Clark would have to ruck. I see it Jamar/Spencer and Martin/Clark

Combos:

#1: Jamar-Martin

If Jamar is injured: Spencer-Martin (prefer this to Martin-Clark)

If Martin is injured: Jamar-Clark

Jake is out of contract and has a great opportunity to establish his value.

Jake Spencer could be very useful this year. We are a man down in 2012 before it atarts. Jake you are now needed. Train your ass off kid.

[Axis of Bob 11,912]

Then how come Sellar didn't do that at Adelaide..?

Not writing the guy off, but he's being given a lot of credit sight unseen.

What do the following players have in common?

Trent Croad, Zac Dawson, Chris Tarrant and Tom Lonergan.

1) They are the 'gorilla tamers' at the last 4 Grand Final clubs.

2) None of them started their career as a defender. (Croad - forward, Dawson - ruck, Tarrant - forward, Lonergan - forward)

3) All of them frustrated and were traded or delisted before finding their role. (Croad - traded, Dawson - delisted, Tarrant - traded, Lonergan - delisted)

4) All were athletically gifted, but there were worries about their footy smarts.

Their role is to put body pressure on the opposition number one big forward and compete. The role is simple, so you don't need Scott Pendlebury's poise, skills or decision making to play it, but you do need some important attributes: speed, strength and size. All you need to do is be big, be competitive and be next to your opponent, because you just have to keep your opponent on the ground while your team mates are able to jump for the ball.

Why does it take more time for them to come through and be recognised than other players? Because their main requirement are those that improve a lot with age. They need a mature body, so it can take them many years to achieve that.

James Sellar fits perfectly into this category. He was recruited as a ruck/forward (and has played as one up until very recently). He is athletically very gifted, with speed, strength, power and is very big for a key position player. He is now at the age where he can start physcially dominating in AFL company.

For the role we want him to play, he has all the hallmarks of those who have done it in the past. He has all the attributes. For the price we paid, he has the ability to help our team a lot.

Will he do it? I don't know. But we recruited him for a reason.

[rpfc 28,966]

Why waste Frawley on a job that Sellar can do?

That's a big presumption.

Can Sellar do it?

By all means, name Sellar on that dominant forward and tell Frawley to be damaging.

But I believe we will be damaging ourselves unless Sellar can do what Frawley can do.

Tom Lonergan averaged less that 10 disposals per game last year. Scarlett was an All Australian playing as a rebounding, helping defender. Why? Because he has speed, strength, game sense and poise. He uses this to open up the play. When he was forced to play on Buddy, Geelong lost the 2008 Grand Final, even though he shut Buddy out from the game. Geelong lost more than Hawthorn did by sacrificing Scarlett's run from defence.

Put another way, you'd have to think that Chriss Judd would be one of best negating small defenders around. He is quick, really strong, a great size and wins a lot of contests. Imagine putting him in a back pocket on Alex Fasolo .... he'd smash him. But would you? Not in a million years, because his value to the team is much higher as a midfielder and there are other players on the team that should be able to takeFasolo.

This is what Frawley does. Sellar taking the number one forward does not mean that Frawley is being shifted down the totem. It is actually recognition that he should be higher. It means that Frawley uses his speed, power and skills to break lines coming from defence and turn the ball over from the opposition kicks, rather than just wrestling and punching the ball away from the opposition. He's too good a player for that.

Sellar is no world beater, but what we hope he can do is the same thing that other 'no world beaters' can do, like Zac Dawson or Tom Lonergan. It's a role that requires a few attributes (size, strength, athleticism) but also allows for players that aren't particularly offensively talented to be effective. Hopefully Sellar can take that role and improve our team by getting our more talented players into more valuable roles.

I really don't think that the Judd analogy was helpful but I will say again - he Sellar can take the best tall forward and release Frawley then great...hooray...but 1) I don't see it happening, and 2) that is huge expectation on a bloke who has 6 years of underwhelming AFL footy behind him.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,289]

Jake Spencer could be very useful this year. We are a man down in 2012 before it atarts. Jake you are now needed. Train your ass off kid.

Agree. Spencer is another who gets unreasonable stick on this site. He is still a raw kid who was starting to show a bit when he was injured. Let him get fit and show what he's got.

[Sir Why You Little 37,342]

What do the following players have in common?

Trent Croad, Zac Dawson, Chris Tarrant and Tom Lonergan.

1) They are the 'gorilla tamers' at the last 4 Grand Final clubs.

2) None of them started their career as a defender. (Croad - forward, Dawson - ruck, Tarrant - forward, Lonergan - forward)

3) All of them frustrated and were traded or delisted before finding their role. (Croad - traded, Dawson - delisted, Tarrant - traded, Lonergan - delisted)

4) All were athletically gifted, but there were worries about their footy smarts.

Their role is to put body pressure on the opposition number one big forward and compete. The role is simple, so you don't need Scott Pendlebury's poise, skills or decision making to play it, but you do need some important attributes: speed, strength and size. All you need to do is be big, be competitive and be next to your opponent, because you just have to keep your opponent on the ground while your team mates are able to jump for the ball.

Why does it take more time for them to come through and be recognised than other players? Because their main requirement are those that improve a lot with age. They need a mature body, so it can take them many years to achieve that.

James Sellar fits perfectly into this category. He was recruited as a ruck/forward (and has played as one up until very recently). He is athletically very gifted, with speed, strength, power and is very big for a key position player. He is now at the age where he can start physcially dominating in AFL company.

For the role we want him to play, he has all the hallmarks of those who have done it in the past. He has all the attributes. For the price we paid, he has the ability to help our team a lot.

Will he do it? I don't know. But we recruited him for a reason.

You could be right on the money with this regarding Sellar SpongeBob. Neeld would have seen the Zac Dawson types up close in 2010 particularly & realized the importance of the "don't care if it aint pretty, just do it" role. The aints will miss Dawson this year and Ross Lyon knows it.

[monoccular 17,700]

..... Scarlett was an All Australian playing as a rebounding, helping defender. Why? Because he has speed, strength, game sense and poise. He uses this to open up the play. When he was forced to play on Buddy, Geelong lost the 2008 Grand Final, even though he shut Buddy out from the game. Geelong lost more than Hawthorn did by sacrificing Scarlett's run from defence.

But I guess the argument of many here is that, just as Geelong lacked that day someone else to take on BF, we have yet to see that Sellar is capable of filling that role.

So, yes, IF Sellar or maybe Davis or Tom McDonald can take that role then we could be onto a good thing, freeing up Chip for the running, clearing, directing role, which we know he can do, but unless and until then ?????

It will be interesting to see when the time comes.

[Sir Why You Little 37,342]

But I guess the argument of many here is that, just as Geelong lacked that day someone else to take on BF, we have yet to see that Sellar is capable of filling that role.

So, yes, IF Sellar or maybe Davis or Tom McDonald can take that role then we could be onto a good thing, freeing up Chip for the running, clearing, directing role, which we know he can do, but unless and until then ?????

It will be interesting to see when the time comes.

The draft is a gamble especially when GW$ are given carte blanche at the buffet before anyone else. But Sellar was drafted with this role in mind. Neil Craig would know. Nobody would have picked Dawson or Tarrant to be top backman 5 years ago, not even themselves.

[monoccular 17,700]

You could be right on the money with this regarding Sellar SpongeBob. Neeld would have seen the Zac Dawson types up close in 2010 particularly & realized the importance of the "don't care if it aint pretty, just do it" role. The aints will miss Dawson this year and Ross Lyon knows it.

I would venture to say that Ross Lyon doesn't give the proverbial rat's ass about the Aints missing Zac Dawson. ;-)

[DemonWA 3,940]

The draft is a gamble especially when GW$ are given carte blanche at the buffet before anyone else. But Sellar was drafted with this role in mind. Neil Craig would know. Nobody would have picked Dawson or Tarrant to be top backman 5 years ago, not even themselves.

I still think Dawson is an overrated spud!

[Sir Why You Little 37,342]

I would venture to say that Ross Lyon doesn't give the proverbial rat's ass about the Aints missing Zac Dawson. ;-)

No as he took him to the shockers he will be smiling big time. The Aints lose again.

Sellar is the type of player who in a game may get no stats. But his opponent does no better. What Warnock should have done more of.

[Sir Why You Little 37,342]

I still think Dawson is an overrated spud!

You may be right. But his old coach still wants him and i get the feeling Craig wants success in his time here. This is almost Craig/Neeld coaching.

[Biffen 12,949]

If Strauss is ever a best 22 player Melbourne will be seriously in trouble.

Yeah right -despite Gary rating him along with Watts and Trengove ,we are wasting time on him .We know better about Strauss after having seen his handful of games .Gary must be dating his sister .

[Axis of Bob 11,912]

old and I are not saying that Sellar is guaranteed to make it, but as I said, we recruited him for a reason. He has all the attributes to play the role we want very well. We need someone to perform that role, and he's as good a chance as anyone. He hasn't yet done it, so we all wait and see.

I still think Dawson is an overrated spud!

I think Dawson is an underrated spud! He's not much of a talent, but he is underrated in his role.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,339]

People seem obsessed with Petterd in our forward line because of his fantastic defensive pressure. This is grossly overstated and is based on him having one game where he laid 100 tackles and a seperate game when he laid a fantastic smother in the goal square. For the most part his defensive game is mediocre. I doubt he will get a game in our side as a forward next year.

Strauss has seriously improved his game since he broke his leg. He had gone from some saying he should be delisted to now majority having him as starting in our defensive six. He was improving but still had a fair way and the truth was somewhere between the two.

AOB great explanation regarding the potential importance of Sellar this year.

[monoccular 17,700]

.................Strauss has seriously improved his game since he broke his leg. He had gone from some saying he should be delisted to now majority having him as starting in our defensive six. He was improving but still had a fair way and the truth was somewhere between the two.

Pray tell me, simple minded as I must be, just how has Strauss "improved his game" since his injury??? I am not aware that he has actually played a game, so how could he possibly improve it?? Have I missed something? He may have improved his "approval rating" here, but not his game!!

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Then how come Sellar didn't do that at Adelaide..?

Not writing the guy off, but he's being given a lot of credit sight unseen.

Agree with this, he has a lot of work to do to get into the 22 let alone stay there.