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Teens' exodus a Giant worry for Greater Western Sydney


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I feel desperately sorry that the kids have had their lives and probably their education disrupted by this crazy Vlad Folly, but hopefully it is the start of a big exodus from this synthetic artifact.

I wonder what out them off most? The awful place, the mad coach, or just the shame of being part of this ....this parody?

And I guess their new recruiting guru will be wanting a big fat raise as he tries to sell the unsaleable to some poor kids who just want to play AFL at a real club.

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I disagree with most posters sentiments of GWS. Like it or not there is a battle of the football codes going on in this country and im not referring to Rugby or league. It is common knowledge our government incredulously wishes to expand our population to 35million in the next couple of decades. Where are these people going to come from and what sport do they play/watch? - Soccer! If the AFL dosent gain a foothold in NSW and establish themselves as a national code the code will get soundly beaten.

Sure, some people long for the days of watching games at vic park or the western oval but i dont. I want a league of highly financed clubs, employing the latest techniques to create world class , elite sporting teams , playing in front of packed stadiums.

without big tv rights deals the afl will not be able to survive as we know it. We need as many kids from the entire country playing footy if the AFL is to continue to bag the biggest sponsorship/corporate dollars. I want GWS to turn every Western sydney school kid in to a mad keen footy supporter. If GWS fails, every club, including the MFC, loses out. A lot of people dont seem to get this. What would a rise in popularity of footy in NSW do to the next TV rights negotiations? Without the AFL paying out millions to the clubs how do you think MFC would be able to afford to hire Craig, Misson etc. Where do you think the AFL gets this money from? If footy wasnt such a popular code where do you think the AFL would get the money from. Lets all look at the big picture guys.

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I look at the big picture and wonder why the AFL has thrown so much money at this project. Why on earth would you put a team in the worst possible location to build a fan base? Yes, if they manage to get an AFL team in Western Sydney with a Collingwood-like fan base it's a massive win, but far more likely is that the team will ever amount to much off the field and will continue to drain resources from the other clubs without contributing much to the economic well-being of the competition. Rather than putting the 18th team in Tasmania where they would have had a ready-made membership base and a solid state league to draw players from, they have dropped it in a city with a high migrant population who already fanatically follow either Soccer or Rugby. In many cases they are following teams that don't even play in this country. How does the AFL expect to convert these fanatical fans into revenue?

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How about investing all the money on Junior and Country footy to begin with? Country footy is struggling like never before but the AFL seem intent on concentrating on the big smokes and assumptions!

Munga, I understand your sentiment but I strongly disagree that Western Sydney is the most logical place to target for this crusade that Vlad and Co are on.

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Rather than putting the 18th team in Tasmania where they would have had a ready-made membership base and a solid state league to draw players from, they have dropped it in a city with a high migrant population who already fanatically follow either Soccer or Rugby.

So how does that contribute to the economic well-being of the game then? Everybody in Tasmania already barracks for a team and takes out memberships. All you're doing there is diluting the support for the existing teams in the AFL.

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I look at the big picture and wonder why the AFL has thrown so much money at this project. Why on earth would you put a team in the worst possible location to build a fan base? Yes, if they manage to get an AFL team in Western Sydney with a Collingwood-like fan base it's a massive win, but far more likely is that the team will ever amount to much off the field and will continue to drain resources from the other clubs without contributing much to the economic well-being of the competition. Rather than putting the 18th team in Tasmania where they would have had a ready-made membership base and a solid state league to draw players from, they have dropped it in a city with a high migrant population who already fanatically follow either Soccer or Rugby. In many cases they are following teams that don't even play in this country. How does the AFL expect to convert these fanatical fans into revenue?

Well, an interesting Roy Morgan Research survey from about 4 years ago (http://www.roymorgan.com/news/press-releases/2007/649/), shows that the team with the largest supporter base (by a country mile) was the Sydney Swans coming in at something around 1.7mil which is three times the population of Tasmania. So, the potential supporters exist in Sydney (and Canberra) as long as the AFL is smart about how they intend to tap the well... perhaps they should attempt to encourage more schools to offer AFL as a sport in order to get the kids while they are young. AusKick has already made great inroads in Sydney and I would expect that they will now be expanding that into the greater west. As much as I dislike GWS Giants, I do believe that there is no reason that a second AFL team cannot do well here.

These assertions regarding migrant populations are ridiculous, as that argument can be applied to every state in Australia... and Melbourne having just a half million people fewer than Sydney, is no exception. In fact, although I can't say it with any authority, I would argue that soccer has a much more fanatical and a much broader supporter base in Melbourne than it does in Sydney and I do know from first hand experience that Sydneysiders are not particularly fanatical about NRL; and certainly not to the degree that Melbourne people are about AFL.

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I look at the big picture and wonder why the AFL has thrown so much money at this project. Why on earth would you put a team in the worst possible location to build a fan base? Yes, if they manage to get an AFL team in Western Sydney with a Collingwood-like fan base it's a massive win, but far more likely is that the team will ever amount to much off the field and will continue to drain resources from the other clubs without contributing much to the economic well-being of the competition. Rather than putting the 18th team in Tasmania where they would have had a ready-made membership base and a solid state league to draw players from, they have dropped it in a city with a high migrant population who already fanatically follow either Soccer or Rugby. In many cases they are following teams that don't even play in this country. How does the AFL expect to convert these fanatical fans into revenue?

Western Sydney is the only place to target. I agree, it is a risk as its such a league/soccer area - but - its one of the fastest growing population areas in the western world. Tasmania is already footy mad. Also , its a low population base which equals low corporate/tv dollars. i doubt the networks really care too much how many people in launceston are sitting up watching the footy on a friday night.

I do definitely agree the AFL is not putting enough in to country footy and i think its a tragedy seeing these local clubs dying.

It is a big ask to convert western sydney in to footy fans but I believe it has to be attempted. It has to get in to the schools and GWS must have some success reasonably quickly. The AFL was clearly the most watched sport in the country a few years back, however Rugby league now has that title.

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I disagree with most posters sentiments of GWS. Like it or not there is a battle of the football codes going on in this country and im not referring to Rugby or league. It is common knowledge our government incredulously wishes to expand our population to 35million in the next couple of decades. Where are these people going to come from and what sport do they play/watch? - Soccer! If the AFL dosent gain a foothold in NSW and establish themselves as a national code the code will get soundly beaten.

Sure, some people long for the days of watching games at vic park or the western oval but i dont. I want a league of highly financed clubs, employing the latest techniques to create world class , elite sporting teams , playing in front of packed stadiums.

without big tv rights deals the afl will not be able to survive as we know it. We need as many kids from the entire country playing footy if the AFL is to continue to bag the biggest sponsorship/corporate dollars. I want GWS to turn every Western sydney school kid in to a mad keen footy supporter. If GWS fails, every club, including the MFC, loses out. A lot of people dont seem to get this. What would a rise in popularity of footy in NSW do to the next TV rights negotiations? Without the AFL paying out millions to the clubs how do you think MFC would be able to afford to hire Craig, Misson etc. Where do you think the AFL gets this money from? If footy wasnt such a popular code where do you think the AFL would get the money from. Lets all look at the big picture guys.

I don't care if I watch the MFC play at the G in a 200 million dollar comp without the expansion teams or a billion dollar comp with the expansion teams. Irrespective, I'll be watching my team play at the G. More money in the AFL pot does not equate to the MFC being more likely to succeed (or exist) and if soccer (yawn) does become the dominant sport and the AFL has to play second fiddle, so what...

Too many Napoleons at AFL HQ in my view and their ruthless and cynical stripping players from foundation clubs to boost their McFrancise teams has done more to strip what I love about footy then many administrations in the past.

The best thing about GWS pinching Scully is that I now have a reason to feel some emotion when we play them, in stark contrast to when we play GC, Brissies, Port, Freo etc... I watch the game to enjoy the artistry and savour the victories and in general the expansion just means more white bread...

And because I feel something for GWS I want them to suffer a long painful era of very little success (i.e. same as i wish for the Pies, Hawks, Blues, Dons etc...).

It's a simple game.

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Lets all look at the big picture guys.

There's more than one picture involved here and the one I like looking at is IMO an even bigger picture.

I'm all for progress, growth and development but you have to achieve a balance between the profit of the entrepreneur and the good of the environment. I’m not keen on greedy developers who are so obsessed with their bottom line that they wilfully ignore everything else and produce eyesores within infrastructures that pollute and destroy their environment.

That’s how I look at the way the AFL and GWS have gone about trying to establish this football club in Western Sydney - like greedy developers not caring or taking into account what happens to the rest of the football environment. Jimmy Stynes famously said, the AFL is developing a system that breeds distrust and encourages young kids to tell lies. But it wasn't just a young kid who was involved in deceit - it's the whole system created to push aside existing member clubs and prevent them from bidding to keep their youngers players and then the sneering contempt from GWS when they announced their victory. Even the compensation packages were sold in a deceptive manner. The first band of compensation might look good on paper and is even accepted by some as fair but it doesn't compensate like for like and everybody knows that.

I don't care for the development of the game in the western suburbs of Sydney if greed and corruption are what underpin its introduction into that part of the world.

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I for one (million) think that GWS is headed for failure.

But why haven't the AFL seriously looked at Tassie.

Is it because 10% of the GWS population is better than 40% of Tassie?

Tassie who are Aussie Rules through and through deserve a little more respect than Vlad & assoc are willing to give them.

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There's more than one picture involved here and the one I like looking at is IMO an even bigger picture.

I'm all for progress, growth and development but you have to achieve a balance between the profit of the entrepreneur and the good of the environment. I’m not keen on greedy developers who are so obsessed with their bottom line that they wilfully ignore everything else and produce eyesores within infrastructures that pollute and destroy their environment.

That’s how I look at the way the AFL and GWS have gone about trying to establish this football club in Western Sydney - like greedy developers not caring or taking into account what happens to the rest of the football environment. Jimmy Stynes famously said, the AFL is developing a system that breeds distrust and encourages young kids to tell lies. But it wasn't just a young kid who was involved in deceit - it's the whole system created to push aside existing member clubs and prevent them from bidding to keep their youngers players and then the sneering contempt from GWS when they announced their victory. Even the compensation packages were sold in a deceptive manner. The first band of compensation might look good on paper and is even accepted by some as fair but it doesn't compensate like for like and everybody knows that.

I don't care for the development of the game in the western suburbs of Sydney if greed and corruption are what underpin its introduction into that part of the world.

I do agree WJ, that the GWS expansion has not been handled well. I agree that grass roots footy outside metro areas is being neglected and that the AFL did not properly protect the existing clubs to this expansion.

However, I strongly believe, the AFL must expand its support base if its to remain a strong comp. A lot of footy supporters that grew up and live in melbourne amongst the fanatical fan bases dont quite realise that outside victoria the AFL is not really that strong. Of course it has supporters all over the country but its different to Melbourne. I live on a yacht in Europe and work with 5 other aussies. Im the only one that dosent think its a a poofs game played by boys in tight shorts. Now if it was a truly national game that wouldnt be the case. AFL needs to fight very hard to become a national game. A successful GWS is necessary. The AFL are so keen to avoid a Brisbane bears repeat that they have created rules to the detriment of the existing clubs. I know that and unfortunatley Vlad has taken his eyes of the footy a bit in that regard.

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I do agree WJ, that the GWS expansion has not been handled well. I agree that grass roots footy outside metro areas is being neglected and that the AFL did not properly protect the existing clubs to this expansion.

However, I strongly believe, the AFL must expand its support base if its to remain a strong comp. A lot of footy supporters that grew up and live in melbourne amongst the fanatical fan bases dont quite realise that outside victoria the AFL is not really that strong. Of course it has supporters all over the country but its different to Melbourne. I live on a yacht in Europe and work with 5 other aussies. Im the only one that dosent think its a a poofs game played by boys in tight shorts. Now if it was a truly national game that wouldnt be the case. AFL needs to fight very hard to become a national game. A successful GWS is necessary. The AFL are so keen to avoid a Brisbane bears repeat that they have created rules to the detriment of the existing clubs. I know that and unfortunatley Vlad has taken his eyes of the footy a bit in that regard.

No argument from me that the AFL's job is to expand its supporter base and develop the game beyond the traditional states but it's the way that it's being done that irks me.

Furthermore, I think the way it's being done now won't even provide a better result than the early days of the Brisbane Bears who actually won their first two games in the competition back in 1987.

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I look at the big picture and wonder why the AFL has thrown so much money at this project. Why on earth would you put a team in the worst possible location to build a fan base? Yes, if they manage to get an AFL team in Western Sydney with a Collingwood-like fan base it's a massive win, but far more likely is that the team will ever amount to much off the field and will continue to drain resources from the other clubs without contributing much to the economic well-being of the competition. Rather than putting the 18th team in Tasmania where they would have had a ready-made membership base and a solid state league to draw players from, they have dropped it in a city with a high migrant population who already fanatically follow either Soccer or Rugby. In many cases they are following teams that don't even play in this country. How does the AFL expect to convert these fanatical fans into revenue?

Interestingly the other codes aren't well supported so how on Earth do the AFL expect to lure people across to our code?

The people up there don't go to NRL and Soccer matches so why would they attend AFL games?

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Yes, perhaps youre right with that. Theyve gone very heavy with the young kids early on and I think a lot will "come home" before GWS sees them develop. In Brogan, Cornes and even Macca, I see a bit of desperation in recruiting the veterans. Its clear GWS found it harder to attract talent than the suns did - no suprise there though!

As for the compo for losing players, I agree how compo is not that flash, especially if the Dees finish mid table. Im not sure how else the AFL couldve done it though. They couldve given the teams the same pick as what their player was taken at but that wouldnt work for clubs who lose gun players that were taken lower in the draft. For example we couldve got next years 1st pick for scully. No complaints there. That same rule would mean that if the club had lost trengove it would receive pick 2 next year. Now for mine, trengove is more valuable than scully, so that rule would not have worked so well. perhaps better than what they set up though.

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I disagree with most posters sentiments of GWS. Like it or not there is a battle of the football codes going on in this country and im not referring to Rugby or league. It is common knowledge our government incredulously wishes to expand our population to 35million in the next couple of decades. Where are these people going to come from and what sport do they play/watch? - Soccer! If the AFL dosent gain a foothold in NSW and establish themselves as a national code the code will get soundly beaten.

Sure, some people long for the days of watching games at vic park or the western oval but i dont. I want a league of highly financed clubs, employing the latest techniques to create world class , elite sporting teams , playing in front of packed stadiums.

without big tv rights deals the afl will not be able to survive as we know it. We need as many kids from the entire country playing footy if the AFL is to continue to bag the biggest sponsorship/corporate dollars. I want GWS to turn every Western sydney school kid in to a mad keen footy supporter. If GWS fails, every club, including the MFC, loses out. A lot of people dont seem to get this. What would a rise in popularity of footy in NSW do to the next TV rights negotiations? Without the AFL paying out millions to the clubs how do you think MFC would be able to afford to hire Craig, Misson etc. Where do you think the AFL gets this money from? If footy wasnt such a popular code where do you think the AFL would get the money from. Lets all look at the big picture guys.

I am looking at the Big Picture Munga....& that is what worries me! I think the AFL is targeting the wrong place...and to place all this money into a "Risk" area i worry for the decades ahead....i will continue to support the Demons but i get irritated at the thought of propping up these soulless corporations after they have flouted their arrival by cheating.

At this stage Neither of us is right or wrong...But a lot of $$ hard earned is going to evaporate.

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Well, an interesting Roy Morgan Research survey from about 4 years ago (http://www.roymorgan...eases/2007/649/), shows that the team with the largest supporter base (by a country mile) was the Sydney Swans coming in at something around 1.7mil which is three times the population of Tasmania. So, the potential supporters exist in Sydney (and Canberra) as long as the AFL is smart about how they intend to tap the well... perhaps they should attempt to encourage more schools to offer AFL as a sport in order to get the kids while they are young. AusKick has already made great inroads in Sydney and I would expect that they will now be expanding that into the greater west. As much as I dislike GWS Giants, I do believe that there is no reason that a second AFL team cannot do well here.

These assertions regarding migrant populations are ridiculous, as that argument can be applied to every state in Australia... and Melbourne having just a half million people fewer than Sydney, is no exception. In fact, although I can't say it with any authority, I would argue that soccer has a much more fanatical and a much broader supporter base in Melbourne than it does in Sydney and I do know from first hand experience that Sydneysiders are not particularly fanatical about NRL; and certainly not to the degree that Melbourne people are about AFL.

Well it's a Roy Morgan poll so I wouldn't put much faith in it. That aside, they don't seem to be able to differentiate between Supporters and Barracker's; there is a difference you know. I barrack for the Storm but I certainly don't support them and I would imagine if you conducted a similar poll for the NRL, Storm would win in a canter.

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Interestingly the other codes aren't well supported so how on Earth do the AFL expect to lure people across to our code?

The people up there don't go to NRL and Soccer matches so why would they attend AFL games?

You are right. Attendances up there are rubbish but the league tv ratings for the past 2 years have been higher than the AFL ratings. A lot of people from QLD and NSW that i speak to all say they prefer to watch aussie rules live than league live but they prefer to watch league on tv

The other codes are very well supported. Its just not popular to go watch the games live. I understand that. Ive been to a few league games and was bored ****less.

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I do agree WJ, that the GWS expansion has not been handled well. I agree that grass roots footy outside metro areas is being neglected and that the AFL did not properly protect the existing clubs to this expansion.

However, I strongly believe, the AFL must expand its support base if its to remain a strong comp. A lot of footy supporters that grew up and live in melbourne amongst the fanatical fan bases dont quite realise that outside victoria the AFL is not really that strong. Of course it has supporters all over the country but its different to Melbourne. I live on a yacht in Europe and work with 5 other aussies. Im the only one that dosent think its a a poofs game played by boys in tight shorts. Now if it was a truly national game that wouldnt be the case. AFL needs to fight very hard to become a national game. A successful GWS is necessary. The AFL are so keen to avoid a Brisbane bears repeat that they have created rules to the detriment of the existing clubs. I know that and unfortunatley Vlad has taken his eyes of the footy a bit in that regard.

A couple points..

  1. AFL in WA is just as popular as in Vic. There just isn't the same volume of people.

  2. If your 5 mates follow soccer and think that Aussie Rules is a game played by poofs then you have my permission to slap them - hard.

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So how does that contribute to the economic well-being of the game then? Everybody in Tasmania already barracks for a team and takes out memberships. All you're doing there is diluting the support for the existing teams in the AFL.

One could argue that throwing $100m at the GW$ experiment is not exactly sound economics. If it fails then we have ripped that much money out of the system just so we can make a few individuals wealthy.

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You are right. Attendances up there are rubbish but the league tv ratings for the past 2 years have been higher than the AFL ratings. A lot of people from QLD and NSW that i speak to all say they prefer to watch aussie rules live than league live but they prefer to watch league on tv The other codes are very well supported. Its just not popular to go watch the games live. I understand that. Ive been to a few league games and was bored ****less.

Well that won't help us will it?

If they prefer to watch NRL on TV than AFL and they don't go to the AFL matches live then we get diddly squat; no increase in TV and no gate receipts.

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