Steph Martin & Mitch Clark...

[Dr. Gonzo 24,210]

He didn't actually say, just made the point that we now had too many big blokes.

We do have a lot and I'd expect to see a couple at least moved on next year (Fitzpatrick, Spencer). At the moment I'd have Martin as a KPD as stated but if McDonald or Davis come on then they could easily replace him (McDonald particularly). This would leave us in an enviable position of being able to trade out Martin for something decent as as we saw this year versatile rucks are always in demand.

We had to get a big guy to fill a hole up forward and couldn't really afford to wait a couple more years for Cook to hopefully come on. We do need to start stocking up our midfield though and you'd assume this would be the aim of this and coming drafts. We had an advantage though knowing Viney and two compo picks are up our sleeve (and possibly Stretch as well down the track though it's too early to tell with him yet).

[Macca 16,963]

FB - Frawley

CHB - Watts

Centre - Sylvia

CHF - Martin

FF - Clark

Now there's a talented spine - Reckon that's what Neeld might be thinking anyway .

[Go the Biff 3,414]

I also see Gawn as Jamar's replacement & suspect he will be drip fed senior games along the way. He needs a solid year in the VFL as Casey's #1 ruck - a position he hasn't made his own yet given his late start to the season. I also reckon that Martin would make a CHB to be reckoned with. Will be fascinating to see how Neeld sets them up next year.

[Dan Fantastik 50]

FB - Frawley

CHB - Watts

Centre - Sylvia

CHF - Martin

FF - Clark

Now there's a talented spine - Reckon that's what Neeld might be thinking anyway .

I like the look of this!

Maybe swap Martin and Watts around though? Then Watts can go back to CHB when Martin is needed in the Ruck and Jamar can rest up forward?

Its great to see how many options have opened up with the addition of just one player.

Great pick up Dees!!!

[Juicebox 628]

Stef Martin in the backline as KPD and ruck rotating.

Jamar first ruck.

Clark FF.

Martin does provide the option of going back if needed. But Garland, Rivers and Frawley already provide plenty of height down back.

Collingwood have been able to play Dawes, Cloke, Jolly and Brown in the same team. I'm sure we'll manage.

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

FB - Frawley

CHB - Watts

Centre - Sylvia

CHF - Martin

FF - Clark

Now there's a talented spine - Reckon that's what Neeld might be thinking anyway .

Yes i can see Charlie Watts at CHB for a couple of years...like a Nieta...at least worth a try

[Fork 'em 6,983]

The alternative is to look at trading Jamar in 2012 or 2013 and building our ruck stocks around Gawn (and Martin). Keeping Jamar and losing Gawn is like repeating the White/Jolly scenario.

I agree totally .

Gotta keep Gawn IMO .

[mordja 187]

A year ago we worried that if Jamar went down we were screwed because it would be left to Spencil.

Now we have too many quality talls? Yep sure, huge problem Finey.

He really should be focusing on his own sinking ship at seaford.

[Macca 16,963]

I like the look of this!

Maybe swap Martin and Watts around though? Then Watts can go back to CHB when Martin is needed in the Ruck and Jamar can rest up forward?

Its great to see how many options have opened up with the addition of just one player.

Great pick up Dees!!!

Yeah - you could swap Martin and Watts around - Sylvia is the one that has to become elite player - he has loads of ability - in the middle is where this might happen .

[Sir Why You Little 37,034]

Yeah - you could swap Martin and Watts around - Sylvia is the one that has to become elite player - he has loads of ability - in the middle is where this might happen .

Sylvia is the extra forward opposition backs will have to watch....he should always be playing just on 50...Those long Bombs are just too good!!!

[Striker475 696]

FB - Frawley

CHB - Watts

Centre - Sylvia

CHF - Martin

FF - Clark

Now there's a talented spine - Reckon that's what Neeld might be thinking anyway .

Swap Martin and Watts and you absolutely have me

[Jordie_tackles 354]

FB - Frawley

CHB - Watts

Centre - Sylvia

CHF - Martin

FF - Clark

Now there's a talented spine - Reckon that's what Neeld might be thinking anyway .

Such an impressive spine... All under 23!!! Clarke turning 24 in less than a week however

Watts going back or forward tbh it depends on where Martin may be best suited, because watts is talented enough to make both ends of the ground his own

People are right that Gawn wont get many games next year imo, but all it takes is one injury. and in 2013 is where it gets complicated..... Jamar will be 29 or 30 though so depends when they see him playing until. damn we will trade one of our rucks for a first round pick, we spent 2 rookie spots and pick 53 on them!!!!

[Dr. Gonzo 24,210]

I like the look of this!

Maybe swap Martin and Watts around though? Then Watts can go back to CHB when Martin is needed in the Ruck and Jamar can rest up forward?

Its great to see how many options have opened up with the addition of just one player.

Great pick up Dees!!!

Yep Watts has the talent to be a good playmaker but has too much goal sense and nous to be wasted too far from goals. He can pinch hit down back when Martin is rucking but would keep him forward for the majority of the time.

[Macca 16,963]

Sylvia is the extra forward opposition backs will have to watch....he should always be playing just on 50...Those long Bombs are just too good!!!

Well that's where he has played most of his career but ..... he's not elite and he could be - I do like the idea of a "General" type in the centre and we do have a lot of medium / small type forwards that can fill the bill - Pettard , Jurrah , Green , Howe , Jetta , Wonna , Davey (?) Dunn and Bate ( though I'd rather see him on the wing ) .

And lets face it , we have to change our structure a fair bit cos the one used this year and in the previous few years simply doesn't work . It's a bit off subject I suppose but it's all related - interesting times ahead and I can't ever remember feeling as confident about a new coach - Maybe Barassi though 1981 was a tough year ( 1 win !!! )

[angrydee 842]

Clark, I would imagine, will take the mobile CHF role similar to Cloke's. Watts, with his excellent decision making, kicking and pace could easily play the role that Goddard does, and Martin is starting to show that he can play anywhere.

These guys may be tall, but they are pacy and mobile. They will allow flexibility, and enable Neeld to ensure mismatches during games.

Gawn has so far exceeded all my expectations and will one day be elite. Pencil will be the one we can discard - hopefully by trading him at the end of 2012.

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

I like the look of this!

Maybe swap Martin and Watts around though? Then Watts can go back to CHB when Martin is needed in the Ruck and Jamar can rest up forward?

Its great to see how many options have opened up with the addition of just one player.

Great pick up Dees!!!

I think Watts is a bit wasted at CHB. Hes one of the quickest at the club - id like to see them try him on the wing occasionally - ala Barnes in his early days.

[Webber 10,465]

I think Watts is a bit wasted at CHB. Hes one of the quickest at the club - id like to see them try him on the wing occasionally - ala Barnes in his early days.

Absolutely correct. He is not 'one of the quickest', he IS the quickest, and as such will reinvent the big wing/goal kicking forward role. For all those concerned about our midfield, remember that next year is an extra year of maturity for those who have been just developing, particularly Gysberts, Trengove and McKenzie, whose games will be more rounded, and more resilient. Nathan Jones begins his peak form years next year, and a fit Rohan Bail and Michael Evans will give us so much more flexibility. If Moloney holds form (and I think he'll get better as he has to shoulder less of the load), and Neeld can get consistency from Sylvia, then I think we can relax about the midfield. As a bit of a smokey, I have a suspicion Matthew Bate may be looked at as a midfielder now. Logically, that is the only reason we would require him, and to be fair to him, he tore it up at Casey in the midfield, and was BOG in the only game he played there for the Dees. If it worked, it would be an amazing reinvention.

As to Stefan Martin, he is a better all round footballer than Mark Jamar, and I actually see him as our no.1 mobile ruckman next year, unless Neeld puts Martin at CHB, which admittedly he would absolutely own. Mark Jamar needs to develop a higher possession game, because his tap-rucking can be a little one-dimensional, and was too easily sharked this year, and he gave us nothing around the ground. I also worry that he is still injury prone.

The Mitch Clark get is a HUGE coup for the Dees........when does the season start??????????

[Chicken Deelicious 0]

Tall guys that can take marks make difficult targets to defend against. They dont get shorter during the game. If we have mobile, quality talls that can have great stamina, good marking and good kicking skills, we will indeed be Neeld's "hardest team to play against". How do you man up on us? LOVING it already. If our midfield can live up to its potential, Jurrah can be the elusive support at the front end......

The issues with Gawn, Spencil and the like will be nice problems to have, but we dont have them yet!

Go Dees 2012!!!!

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

Jamar will be traded before Gawn will be. Jamar is reaching his twilight years- Gawn is still in his infant years.

The beautiful thing is that we can get a premium for Jamar, and with Martin and Gawn we won't be losing much- if anything.

I'm hoping it will turn out roses for everyone. Jamar can be traded to a club who may be contending, whilst allowing us to retain a capable ruck duo that still have many years together.

Gawn and Martin aint going nowhere.

FWIW I can see the benefits of Watts on CHB. His pace, football brain and accurate disposal will be a huge asset playing out of this position IMO. Although with Watts at CHB it makes Martin's "resting" position a little more hazy. Glad I'm not a coach, this [censored] is hard!

[Akum 2,660]

The word is FLEXIBILITY. We now have the big men & KPPs to exploit weaknesses and counter strengths. And Clark and Martin are both capable of holding down key positions without having to ruck (and differ in this respect from Jamar & Spencer).

A smallish defence will struggle against Clark FF & Martin CHF. Tall defenders lacking mobility will struggle against Watts & Clark. And we have hopefully seen the last of this "all-forwards-in-defence" farce - although any of them one-out under a high bomb, with the other forwards streaming back towards them, would terrorise all defences.

On the other hand, our main defenders are all 192-193cm & will struggle against 200cm gorilla forwards like Buddy or Petrie or perhaps Kreuzer & NikNat & Zac Smith in future (and I would have said Mitch Clark if we didn't have him!) But Martin can hold his own against these guys, as well as hurt them on the rebound.

Clark could ruck at stoppages forward of centre, Martin in defence. Jamar's value is at stoppages, he gives us very little around the ground or up forward, and could not hold down a key position. But his injuries may mean that he's most useful in future as a "pinch-hitter" for when we need extra drive, rather than a workhorse.

Before trade week, every commentator bar none said we needed a big strong power KPF. They approved of us going for Dawes, and last year for Hale, while expecting us not to get them. Now we've got what everybody said was our biggest need, one or two nuffies are saying that we didn't need it after all.

[hardtack 10,537]

Such an impressive spine... All under 23!!! Clarke turning 24 in less than a week however

Oh no... time to move him on then :-D

I think that Martin should probably be CHB and Watts CHF and either Tapscott or Blease could help to complete the midfield equation (probably Tapscott as Blease's run out of defence will be a great asset).

Oh, and before the season starts, we had better clarify that it's Clark without the "e" - Clarke with the "e" plays in the same side as Trengrove.and Maloney :-)

Edited October 17, 2011 by hardtack

[rpfc 28,392]

Ruckmen cannot 'rest' in the backline. You can do what Daniher did with White - play him behind the ball (ugh), but that isn't resting. Having him play on someone would be even worse.

Jamar and Martin will rest in the square and Clark will lead out from 30m out. Watts can go where he likes and follow his quite stunning footy brain and Jurrah can feed off of Jamar/Martin and Clark and face the goals when he get his hands on the footy, something very valuable. Green can play on the flank.

Remember, if you want a ruck to rest you send him to the bench or the FP, that is it.

As an aside, Martin is a fantastic back-up ruck that is Natanui like with athleticism and competitive nature in the square, and he kicks goals and has a great motor. Why do we feel the need to throw him around again?

Edited October 17, 2011 by rpfc

[Young Blood 2,620]

I agree Martin rotating with Jamar. Rest both on the bench. Have them both concentrate on what they do best. Definately not having to worry about tagging a key forward or anything. Maybe drift forward to relieve Clarke and or if he or watts is injured.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I find it funny how we obtain a 200cm player in the trade, and now all of a sudden we have too many talls? FFS people, it was these "experts" that said we are crying out for a big-bodied forward.

Now, for some common sense. Gawn is NOT to be traded. Jamar is NOT to be traded. And YES, we can play with Martin, Gawn, Jamar and Clark ALL in the same team. The issue for most supporters is their obsession with mid-sized forwards. I've got news for ya - our team can't have all of Petterd, Green, Sylvia, Howe, Tappy, Dunn and Jurrah playing as mid-sized forwards. These guys have got 2 options - either be a gun half forward flanker, or have the capacity to rotate through the midfield and have an impact when doing so. Syliva get's the tick for the latter, Jurrah gets the tick for the former. I think Howe can be a gun half forward, and Petterd and Tappy can potentially play the latter also.

Premiership winning forwardlines have multiple big bodies. Don't believe me? Tell me the last one that didn't have them. I have no issue with Clark at Full Forward, Watts at CHF, and the resting ruckman in the pocket. It could mean Martin does become our CHB (now that we have that KPF). Watch the highlights of Gawn on the MFC website - he is a very good mark, and will only get better.

Ideally in a couple of years time, Gawn will take over that number 1 ruck role. That's when I could easily see Jamar playing in a pocket alongside Clark, then have the resting ruckman on the bench. Collingwood did it this year (used the bench for their rucks), and while it limits the amount of interchange rotations for our midfielders, with the new fitness/sports science gurus on board, hopefully we will be able to accommodate this.

Please guys, let's get some stability of our list for a couple of years before you start calling for blokes like Jamar or Gawn to be traded. I know you ask if Jamar will be there in our window, but let's not forget, we need to win games to make the 8 first, then we can worry about winning flags. Taking Jamar out of our team in 2012-2014 will not do us any favours.

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

Stef has had a great year. The player who improved the most. A versatile big man who also has a gift for getting the ball in broken play around stoppages. A problem now fitting in all the tall's but now we don't have to worry about Dunn doing any ruck work.