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"Was pretty disappointing in his afl games, but was apparently nervous and usually plays very well at Box Hill."

Sounds like Matthew Bate!

And Addam Maric; no thanks we want quality not another fringe player we will hang on to for 4 to 5 years then delist.

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I'm pretty sure that's been rumoured in a HeraldSun article too.

I've read it somewhere, at least.

Wouldn't surprise me.

He reminds me of Hahn actually, but worse overhead.

what games were you watching? Unfortunately ,hes about our BEST overhead mark -Watch the games he played and look at at what he did in the hardest spot to play on the ground , with the worst "other way midfield" in the comp .Sheep comments about Bate sicken me .

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Jordan Lisle? who can tell me about him?

I havnt seen him play but hear he is big and can take marks, doesnt kick a heap of goals though, 5 games in 4 years for the hawks?

I will bid Bate and a 3rd round pick lets talk hawks?

Saw Jordan Lisle play a lot in his last year at school.

Relatively agile for his size and capable of taking a strong contested mark. Tended to play in bursts and go missing for long periods. Played most of his junior footy at CHF with occasional runs in the ruck - but got drafted ( at 50) because of some good performances at CHB for Vic Metro. Has played mainly forward with Box Hill - where I have heard he has again struggled to put in 4 solid quarters.

Definitely has ability - and may look the goods from time to time - but would have to be regarded as a speculative trade at best

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THE TRADING CHRONICLES 2011 by The Oracle

Part Four: TEDIUM

If memory serves me well, the past few exchange periods have lasted a week and that at least half of each of those weeks turned out to be so uneventful that many were calling for the events to be shortened by perhaps a day or two.

In response, some genius at the AFL decided to extend the whole thing into a second week ensuring that there would be days like day two when the various clubs would sit back and take their own good time doing little else but to posture and to allow things to degenerate into a festival of tedium.

To emphasise this point I tuned into Trade Week Radio on the official AFL site and discovered a new media form that was not only embarrassing but also bordering on the meaningless.

For starters, these guys seem obsessed with Magpie defender Alan Toovey and whether his manager, Jim Marinis who sent an email to all clubs explaining that talks for a new contract for his company's client had broken down, is an accredited agent.

Really, who cares?

All we want to see is some action but instead, there were no trades done yesterday and there's nothing really worth reporting on this morning except that the AFL appears to have put the kibosh on the prospect of a deal that would have allowed Greater Western Sydney to recruit 17-year-old star Jaeger O'Meara. This move seems to have scuppered numerous deals that were all dependent upon the plot to subvert the spirit and intent of everything that lay behind the GWS mini draft rules.

I don't know if it was a question of conscience or of the other clubs howling "enough already" but AFL football operations manager Adrian Anderson told the Age:

"There was a proposed deal put forward today which involved two of the 17-year-old picks returning to GWS. We weren't satisfied that the proposed trade was a genuine on-trade, as required by the AFL rules.

"We also weren't satisfied that it fit within the spirit and intention of the rule, which gave GWS these picks with the requirement that they be on-traded. We weren't satisfied that the deal put to us today met those requirements."

The reality of the opening two days is that only two deals have been completed and even those are not what you would describe as traditional trades because they flow more from the special concessional rules applying to the GWS.

To be sure, there are lots of things happening behind the scenes and there are lots of others that are simply not happening. In the latter category:

• For the 273rd time someone involved with North Melbourne announced that ruckman Hamish McIntosh was definitely off the trade table;

• Brendon Goddard is not going to Carlton (at least not this year);

• Nathan Foley is not a Greater Western Sydney Giant;

• Daniel Motlop would like to head west but isn't able to find interest from West Coast or Fremantle; and

• Brendan Fevola isn't going anywhere but north to the Kokoda Track or to the NTFL team, the Waratahs.

On the Melbourne Football Club side of things, it's all pretty quiet but the latest news is that:

• the interstate club looking at defender Matthew Warnock is the Gold Coast Suns;

• Matthew Bate is said to be attracting some attention from the Western Bulldogs; and

• North Melbourne is interested in Melbourne's Addam Maric, having already interviewed and medically examined him.

It seems that things won't really start happening till later in trade week and in the meantime, the proceedings to date can be summed up in one four letter word.

Yawn.

1. Richmond get Steven Morris (West Adelaide) and first round draft selection (No. 15)

GWS Giants get first round draft selection (No. 14).

2. Collingwood get Marin Clarke (ex-Collingwood), Jamie Elliot (Murray Bushrangers) and fourth round draft selection (No. 67)

GWS GIANTS get first round draft selection (No. 25).

The Oracle spent most of yesterday snoozing.

This thread will merge with Trade Week Discussion at the end of Trade Week Day Three

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Well that's a breakthrough. The AFL actually upholding the spirit and intent of the rules. Pity they didn't think of that before they allowed GWS to offer obscene amounts to 20 and 21 year old kids before luring them away from their original clubs which had no chance of matching those offers even if they had the inclination to do so.

I've always maintained that the mini draft order should have been determined before trade week got under way. The situation now is that nothing much is going to be finalised until the mini draft order is determined tomorrow evening. After that we can expect a frenzy of activity from Friday through the weekend and until the closure on Monday.

At least the AFL should be congratulated for recognising they were creating a monster and doing the right thing for once although I suspect it might be too late and the GWS is going to be problematic for a long time.

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How could the draft order be determined, if teams couldn't trade for the picks?

Unless teams were restricted to only using draft picks in trade for mini draft picks.

If players were involved in trades, it would be unfair to preclude other teams to trade players & picks.

The idea of determining the order before trade week doesn't make sense to me.

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I too was bemused and disappointed tosee the trade period extended, and for why ? Some argue its too allow consultation and the toing and froing but the reality is everyone just goes off on their tangent and it all gets murky.

A shorter period would have focussed everyone to the task at hand and cut most of the bullsh!t.

Funny how hte AFL can 'fix' thiings when it suits :huh:

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No it wouldn't.

There's a lot of posturing and you can't rush negotiations, otherwise teams would be too gun-shy.

Extra time is needed for teams to come to grips with not being in contention for mini draft picks, and focus on other dealings.

Also teams involved in those negotiations would be holding up other deals.

And then lesser players that get left to last would be stuck in their current situation, because there'd be no time left to worry about them.

From a spectator point of view it runs too long.

In the interest of getting deals done, more time could be beneficial.

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You having a bob each way there Lutz?? you liked what Wj wrote , which sugests a different format and a shorter period and then you write the opposite. :wacko:

This is a classic example of you expand something and people wil find ways to fill the void. Theres a lot of crap that could be cut from this. Much of what goes on actually starts months ago. Only a nong would consider it ALL happens in the actual trade week. Yes there are instances of deals that emerge form seemingly nowhere but they would always occur irrespective of how long the 'week' is.

Do people seriously suppose the phones stop ringing and coffees arent had 'after hours'

In short theyll use the whole 8 days because theyre there. Theyd do it in 3 if thats all they had also.

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Definitely has ability - and may look the goods from time to time - but would have to be regarded as a speculative trade at best

I'm happy to take a chance on a "speculative" forward if what we're giving up for them is Bate or Warnock. Give me a 196cm speculative over a shorter known quantity who has clearly run his race at the Demons any day.

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Slightly off topic, but earlier in this thread there was discussion about making 3 or 4 places available for the draft. Does anyone know whether we have another player eligible to be added to the veteran's list this year? if so, does that free up a spot on the main list or does it only create an additional spot for another rookie?

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No it wouldn't.

There's a lot of posturing and you can't rush negotiations, otherwise teams would be too gun-shy.

Extra time is needed for teams to come to grips with not being in contention for mini draft picks, and focus on other dealings.

Also teams involved in those negotiations would be holding up other deals.

And then lesser players that get left to last would be stuck in their current situation, because there'd be no time left to worry about them.

From a spectator point of view it runs too long.

In the interest of getting deals done, more time could be beneficial.

The clubs have known the rules since the start of the year and they've had plenty of time to get their act together.

It's ridiculous that all this posturing is going on now to spoil deals.

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Well that's a breakthrough. The AFL actually upholding the spirit and intent of the rules. Pity they didn't think of that before they allowed GWS to offer obscene amounts to 20 and 21 year old kids before luring them away from their original clubs which had no chance of matching those offers even if they had the inclination to do so.

I've always maintained that the mini draft order should have been determined before trade week got under way. The situation now is that nothing much is going to be finalised until the mini draft order is determined tomorrow evening. After that we can expect a frenzy of activity from Friday through the weekend and until the closure on Monday.

At least the AFL should be congratulated for recognising they were creating a monster and doing the right thing for once although I suspect it might be too late and the GWS is going to be problematic for a long time.

Damien Barrett must read your stuff WJ.

I heard him say the identically same thing about half an hour ago on Trade Week radio.

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Slightly off topic, but earlier in this thread there was discussion about making 3 or 4 places available for the draft. Does anyone know whether we have another player eligible to be added to the veteran's list this year? if so, does that free up a spot on the main list or does it only create an additional spot for another rookie?

No we don't, if we did it would free a spot on the primary list which provides an advantage at the draft. But we can elevate a Designated Rookie into that slot and play them anyway.

Not sure who would be next to qualify. The rules changed a couple of years ago - is it still 10 years service and 30 years old?

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Got most of the following information from this bigfooty thread.

http://www.bigfooty....ad.php?t=880046

196cm 96kg KPF.

Slid to pick 50 in 2008 (Watts Draft)

Played both defense and forward as a youngster. Has huge mits and can take a mark. Has not had much opportunity at the Hawks behind Franklin and Roughead.

Was pretty disappointing in his afl games, but was apparently nervous and usually plays very well at Box Hill.

Rumor - Has not been offered for trade but has been inquired about by a few clubs.

One of those guys who would be worth more to his club than he would get as a trade.

I thought he was quite promising in terms of his workrate and marking. Kicking needs alot of work.

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Bater aint going anywhere - Bailey told him that he would get limited opportunities while they tried to get games into Jack Watts - but Watts isnt shaping up to be a strong centre-half forward, so under Neeld Bate - providing he has a good pre-season - might get better opportunities.

Dunn always tries his hardest which is more than you can say of many on our list.

I rate Joel Macdonald - he reminds me of a younger Bruce and created a bit of run out of the back - like Ward used to do.

Players up for trade have to have shown a bit in the previous season - Wona would not be on any other club's want list,despite the obvious talent he has shown in the past.

Bartram - I love the guy's effort but he creates some hair-tearing moments - mind you so did Stef Martin in previous seasons.

Big Maxie Gawn better not be going anywhere.

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Bater aint going anywhere - Bailey told him that he would get limited opportunities while they tried to get games into Jack Watts - but Watts isnt shaping up to be a strong centre-half forward, so under Neeld Bate - providing he has a good pre-season - might get better opportunities.

Dunn always tries his hardest which is more than you can say of many on our list.

Bate wants to leave from all reports.

That sentence about Dunn hurts my sensibilities. The guy tries his hardest to annoy opposition players, he is definitely part of the problem - the malaise that has revealed itself amongst our group.

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THE TRADING CHRONICLES 2011 by The Oracle

 

Part Five: FLIM FLAM MEN

 

It took until half way through the third day of the exchange period for its first genuine trade to be completed but if you think the story behind the first of the year's truly done trade deals was either spectacular or unexpected then please don't hold your breath.

 

It involved Jack Gunston, a fourteen game forward with the Crows, returning home to Victoria after two years in the City of Churches. He landed in the Hawks' nest at Waverley  around lunchtime yesterday along with picks 53 and 71. 

 

In return, Adelaide said "thank you very much" and received picks 24, 46 and 64 which is not bad when you consider that until a month or so ago, the name Gunston was only known to those on the wrong side of 40 who associated it with a television character known as "the little Aussie bleeder".

 

The modern day Gunston must have done something extraordinary to create the impression among the media deserving of the hype surrounding him after only a handful of games. It turns out that he kicked five goals in a losing effort against Richmond in Round 23. That's his only claim to fame but you could have been forgiven for believing that Buddy himself was changing clubs the way some of the media pundits were carrying on. 

 

I had been led to believe that the winning bids for the GWS compensation ''mini-draft'' were to be announced late today with the actual selections to be determined at the close of trade proceedings next Monday but let's face it - this shambolic farce that we call the trade week has long  lost any shred of structure or integrity for that matter. Where the GWS is involved, it's virtually a case of anything goes and therefore it came as no surprise that the next "trade" to be announced was actually the revelation of a deal done by GWS in exchange for pick 1 in the ''mini-draft'' more than a full day in advance.

 

For the record, Jaeger O'Meara is going to the Gold Coast Suns, for pick No. 4 in this year's national draft and the mid first-round compensation pick the Suns received from Geelong during last year's trade period. Now, I am completely lost because I thought it was the Cats who received a mid first round selection as part of the compo for Ablett Junior and not the other way around but I'm sure someone will explain it to me some day soon.

 

The second of the "mini draft" deals is also virtually done and dusted with Brad Crouch going to Adelaide and the Giants are being so nice about it that they're throwing in a handy SANFL player, Luke Brown, to seal the deal. 

 

What seems strange is that GWS is accepting offers now when they could have waited another 24 hours to perhaps get improved deals for these players but I won't waste time trying to make sense out of anything GWS does because, after all, these blokes are paying a 20 year old kid with a wonky knee $2m to play next year.

 

The most interesting insight in the process was obtained from listening to O'Meara's manager. It seems the AFL have moved the mini draft goalposts on more than one occasion and one gets the distinct impression that the kid wouldn't have nominated at all if he thought he might end up at Blacktown. Perhaps this was the reason why the AFL was forced to intervene two days ago?

 

My admiration for O'Meara grew as a result of hearing the interview with his manager and, from that moment on, I found myself wishing Melbourne had tried harder to secure him. But there's a price for everything, the Giants wanted draft picks and pick 4 will always trump pick 12. 

 

Sheedy now has cornered the field in this year's national draft and, if there are no further changes at the top of the list, the Demons will, at pick 12, hold the third highest non GWS selection!

 

And what of the Demon recruiters?

 

Apparently they were in there fighting against a few other clubs to win over St. Kilda's Irish recruit Tom Walsh, who has yet to make his AFL debut, in the race to get the second genuine trade of the week across the line.

 

Fascinating.

 

Completed Trades after Day Three:

 

1.  Richmond get Steven Morris (West Adelaide) and first round draft selection (No. 15)

 

GWS Giants get first round draft selection (No. 14).

 

2. Collingwood get Marin Clarke (ex-Collingwood),  Jamie Elliot (Murray Bushrangers) and fourth round draft selection (No. 67)

 

GWS GIANTS get first round draft selection (No. 25).

 

3. Adelaide get first round draft selection (No. 24), second round  draft selection (No. 46) and third round  draft selection (No. 64).

 

Hawthorn get Jack Gunston (Adelaide), third round  draft selection (No. 53) and fourth round  draft selection (No. 71).

 

4.  Gold Coast Sun get first pick in the "mini draft".

 

GWS GIANTS get first round draft selection (No. 4) and a mid round compensation draft selection for future use.

 

The Oracle is spending today in a padded cell.

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